RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Berkshire Lookup Requests => Berkshire => England => Berkshire Completed Look ups => Topic started by: Lesanne on Thursday 27 November 08 19:13 GMT (UK)
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;D Hello Everyone.
Now on part 7............
Link to part 6. page 20
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,281880.285.html
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:D
Exchequer: King's Remembrancer: Certificates of Residence E 115/370/73
Turner, Turnor, Ralph: Surrey . Turner, Turnor, Ralph: Surrey Exchequer: King's Remembrancer: Certificates of Residence The National Archives, Kew
Date range: 1547 - 1685.
Hmmmmmmm.... needs looking at :o
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sometimes you needed to prove you were the righful owner of the property and were taken to court to do so for example in the civil war period many royalists were evicted by the puritans and their houses sold to pay for the war debt or lived in by the puritans.
when the King was reinstated the Royalists wanted their houses back (are you still with me) so there were often court cases to this effect.
now before the property act was changed in the 1925/6 you had to keep the deeds to a property for as long as possible to prove ownership but some of these deeds were lost (or used for insulation - check loft spaces)
even if there was no reason to prove the ownership many people did for fear of losing their property once again and this lead to a mass of cases held at the Chancery / Equity courts
TNA ref C54 – title deeds endorsements court records
fictious law suites so judgement could be officially recorded – back to the 1100’s
Party 1 – this is my house
Party 2 no it isn’t
Taken to court
Court makes judgment each party gets a copy of the decision and a third copy is held by the court – this is held at TNA back to the 1100’s and after 14th c is searchable on name plaintiff. affidavit, witnesses, or property
court records- equity court . chancery court (from sell of property )
Equity courts – owner occupied – people went to court house passed down? 14th c
Chancery of exchequer – bills and owners, derogatories and replications. 14thc
National property disputes – honours lists houses for questions (cash for questions modern day example)
English civil war – seized by parliamentarians sold off to pay war debt – regained at end of civil war royalists wanted their properties back – lead to equity cases en mass
Court exhibits – name source – pedigrees of family dissent, title deeds, diaries journals, correspondence
Chancery court exhibits –wills family- inventrys, goods possessions chattels effects
so i would say your document was likely to be a dispute over property and then the outcome of same
remember a married womans property act - before the 1880's everything belonged to her husband she had no right - even if he died intestate
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what year did Ralph marry Susannah ? (roughly) can we bring the tree forward?
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re the Binfield Turners
The Royal Household has always employed a large staff across a range of professions records of the staff of the two main household departments (Lord Chambrlains (LC) and Lord Stewarts (LS) date from the 17th c at TNA but i thought there was an Archivist a Windsor, in fact i know there is as i found a link before,
what year are we looking at for the Binfield Turners to belong to the royal staff? before the 17th c?
ah ha yes there is found it again ;D
querey must be in writing sent to
The Registrar
The Royal Archives
Round Tower
Windsor Castle
Windsor
Berks
SL4 1NJ
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>:( Info locked up in Completed cupboard............... Grrrrrr!!
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did John s/o Ralph have siblings ?
so we are looking for a marriage circa early 1670's
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seatbelt fasten time here (thats what thy jus said on the telly!)
BY Christmas Day (yes 25 December) 1723 all men and women in Britain were to have sworn a loyalty oath to the the King (George I) and thus denounced the young pretender James Francis Edward Stuart (Jacobite) or risk forfeiting their estates
those who did not sign were largely roman catholics, they had to register their property witht he courts or risk forfeitin their estates - all who registered their estates were treated as roman catholics and were subject to punitive tax (that t word again)
previous to this the Protestation Oath of 1641 contains the names of nearly all adult males
The association oath of 1696 provides extensive listings for someparts of England
so back to the 1723 oath
this was brought in on discvoery of the Atterbury Plot (after the Bishop of Rochester who was not actually the instigator) hatched betwixt 1720 & 1722
so in May 1723 Royal Assent was given to two acts of parliament
an act for granting aid to HM by kaying tax upon Papists (a tax on Catholics over 18 to deter Cahlic powers in Europe frm supporting any more attempts to restore Stuart Monarchy) anyone who refused to take the oath of alligence were classed as catholics .
All persons whatsoever oboth Men and Women over the age of 18 , only holders of public ofice who had already sworn under the previous act were exempt Quakers who refused to swear could sign a solemn affirmation instead.
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Les do you want me to post all the civil war links ?
a timelin might help doyou think
the civil war was in gfact a series of 3 wars 1642-1646 1648-1649 & 1650-1651
so in theory 1647 should have full records
of course this is not the case
tr this link also
linux02.lib.cam.ac.uk/earlscolne/diary/index.htm
good reading if nothing else ;D
off to bed now footballs finished keep getting looked at because of the typing ::)
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A Chancery Court is a court of equity that has existed since the 14thc It became the Chancery Division of the High Court of Justice in 1875 and still exists to this day. It seeks to balance the evidence and give a verdict on what it sees as just and fiar. It is thus a civil and not criminal court
TNA under C (for Chancery) 42 (for Early Proceedings 1386-1558) and the remainder after that dated under 42.
Check under all variant names – spelling issues
The early series is indexed by both name and subject, the more recent ones are not.
The earlier ones will be found in their entirety, the later series is less well organised but still includes a wealth of information. The problem is that the 3 parts of the case, pleading, evidence and decision will probably be filed n different parts of the collection. They are archived only by a short title which characteristically the name only of the first plaintiff and the first respondent. (Research guide 22 (TNA) has info. about the existing searchable indexes of later Chancery proceedings)
The Chancery Records are not currently included in the DocumentsOnline section , but use the Search the Catalouge facility.
If the name you enter comes up in the cat. search it will be part of a comprehensive description of the suit with names and location. This is a link so click on it for more detail. It is then up to you to decide if you want a copy if so click request this and it can be sent to you the same day in JPEG format for £8.50 (as per April 2008) or you can ask for a quotation to receive it by post. The earlier records 1386-1558 are available on ancestry under British Chancery Records 1386-1558 however it only provides the name period and location by county and not the specific details of TNA but it does provide a specific reference.
The disputes may encourage us to look up the manorial records , copyhold records , witnesses deposition and bankruptcy records.
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so your document is in 2 parts
the latter part being the outcome, but what is the other part the evidence or the pleading?
in any case fromthe info. i read youshould be able to order it as a JPEG image for £8.50
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:o £8.50 is a bit of a difference.... I'll take a look later... feeding time at zoo ;D
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seems i have made a mistake which they are filed under t TNA C for Chancery is correct and 42 for the earleir ones however the latter ones will not be under 42 as well s will have to look up the ref. for that :-[
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Hiya, no worries........ ;) I have terrible trouble trying to work it all out...........
That's a thing to remember before you go..... 8) get everything you want to look up... all the reference numbers, 'cause when you get there you have to order everything on the puta by the ref no's........ and there are were very few people to help, last time I was there........... :P :P and you can only get 3 doc's at a time...
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:o £8.50 is a bit of a difference.... I'll take a look later... feeding time at zoo ;D
did you have another look?
£8.50 is the JPEg image (as of Apil 2008) theprice they quoted is for photocopying and sending it to you via snail mail
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;D I got stuck on reply 2 part 1 :o :o I had full intention of going through the whole lot today.... ::)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,276294.msg1601070.html#msg1601070
There's a Charles Williams as nephew to Frances Williams who marries Tom Turner, my Gt gt Gran........... Frances's Grand daughter is Ethel Norris, my granddad's sister get's a father in law, Charles Lloyd Williams.... is this the same chappy............ ??? ???
I have a funeral card for Richard Williams died 6/8/1878 aged 77 in Berriew, Montgomery. Walter Williams is the name I have for Charles Lloyd Williams's father.
Anyway's did you have a good journey and did the party go well..... 8)
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Re: Lesanne's Scavenger Hunt
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 03 January 08 10:16 GMT (UK) »
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So this is the Turner family in Bray Berkshire in 1871.....
Thomas Turner 53 Head Gardener born Cox Green, Berkshire
Frances M Turner 36 Wife Berriew, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Sophia E Turner 13 Daur Stainmore, Middlesex, England
Mary S Turner 12 Daur born Stainmore, Middlesex, England
Lewis I Turner 5 Son born Maidenhead, Berkshire, England
Harriett E Turner 2 Daur born Maidenhead, Berkshire, England
Albert J Turner 1 Son born Maidenhead, Berkshire, England
Charles Williams 15 Nephew Ag Lab born Montgomershire, Berriew
Esther M Williams 12 Step Daur born Montgomershire, Fordon
Jane Williams 11 Step Daur born Montgomershire, Fordon
Frances William m. Thomas Turner
Frances William has a brother (or unmarried sister) who has a child Charles
Frances William has a daughter who marries Mr Norris and they have a child Ethel
who is your Grandad
Grandad f-i-l is Charles Lloyd Williams
is Charles Lloyd WIlliams the child of Frances Williams sibling?
Richard Williams died 06.08.1878 aged 77 thus born 1801 (ish)
Richard Williams died in Berriew
Where did Richard Williams originate ?
Where is Richard WIlliams in 1871 (and previous)
and the family above in 1881
What years aer we talking about re Charles Williams
do we have Charles (Lloyd) in the BMD index or the Census
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Re: Lesanne's Scavenger Hunt
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 03 January 08 10:16 GMT (UK) »
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So this is the Turner family in Bray Berkshire in 1871.....
Charles Williams 15 Nephew Ag Lab born Montgomershire, Berriew
Frances Williams m. Thomas Turner
Frances Williams has a brother (or unmarried sister) who has a child Charles Williams c1856.
Frances and Tom Turner have a daughter (Kate who marries Robert Norris) and they have a child Ethel G F Norris c1889.
Ethel is my Grandad's sister.
Ethel's f-i-l is 'Lloyd Charles' Williams (having married Ernest Walter Williams c1891 in 1914)
Is 'Charles Lloyd' WIlliams the child of Frances Williams sibling?
Richard Williams died 06.08.1878 aged 77 thus born 1801 (ish)
Richard Williams died in Berriew.
...................Added dates to above........
Where did Richard Williams originate ?
Where is Richard WIlliams in 1871 (and previous)
and the family above in 1881
What years are we talking about re Charles Williams
do we have Charles (Lloyd) in the BMD index or the Census
Walter Williams is Grandfather to Ernest Walter Williams
The questions you pose... ;D I spent most of yesterday tried to answer.... :o
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did you manage to answer them all or are some outstanding?
the party went well, i think it helped Kim understand shes not the only one with wobbly legs, but i wish they had got OH food right - partly my fauly partly not
Charles Williams nephew aged 15 in 1871 thus born 1856 Berriew Montgomeryshire
what you want to establish is is he Charles Lloyd Williams?
what we need to do (i guess you already know)
is to find Charles in the census (other than 1871) and also hopefulyl the BMD index
Berriew features in Hepburns sc hunt
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this appears to be Charles Williams birth
(the one aged 15 in 1871 nephew)
Births Mar 1875
Williams Charles Richard Forden 11b 221
Forden = reg area Berriew
checked Charles Williams 1875-1876 Mongomeryshire.
the one above is the only one
so he doesnt seem to be Charles Lloyd :-\
how old is Charles Lloyd?
no Charles Lloyd Williams b. reg in Forden at all
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Re: Lesanne's Scavenger Hunt
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 03 January 08 10:16 GMT (UK) »
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So this is the Turner family in Bray Berkshire in 1871.....
Charles Williams 15 Nephew Ag Lab born Montgomershire, Berriew
Frances Williams m. Thomas Turner
Frances Williams has a brother (or unmarried sister) who has a child Charles Williams c1856.
Frances and Tom Turner have a daughter (Kate who marries Robert Norris) and they have a child Ethel G F Norris c1889.
Ethel is my Grandad's sister.
Ethel's f-i-l is 'Lloyd Charles' Williams (having married Ernest Walter Williams c1891 in 1914)
Is 'Charles Lloyd' WIlliams the child of Frances Williams sibling?
Richard Williams died 06.08.1878 aged 77 thus born 1801 (ish)
Richard Williams died in Berriew.
...................Added dates to above........
Where did Richard Williams originate ?
Where is Richard WIlliams in 1871 (and previous)
and the family above in 1881
What years are we talking about re Charles Williams
do we have Charles (Lloyd) in the BMD index or the Census
Walter Williams is Grandfather to Ernest Walter Williams
Could Walter and Richard be child/father or brothers?...
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:D Wooo Toni... have you family there.... 8)
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Yes...Bingo....
1901 Hargrave Northampton. RG13 1453 fol66 pg7
Lloyd Charles Williams 45 Carter on Farm, Llandysyll ~ Montgomeryshire.
Mary Ann 45 Bucks Newport Pagnell.
William Albert 11 Northants Rushden
Ernest Walter 9 Middx Ealing
William Albert is witness at marriage of Ethel and Ernest in 1914.
Now to find him with his father Walter Williams.......... ::)
;D 3x panels of fence to do first and get over the shock of finding him.... ;D
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:D Wooo Toni... have you family there.... 8)
confused
nope
Hepburn has family in Berriew or did have - have a look at her hunt they might match with yours you never know
Lloyd Charles not Charles Lloyd
b 1856ish
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Births Dec 1854
Williams Lloyd Atcham 6a 553
Births Dec 1855
Williams Lloyd Clun 6a 455
neither Atcham or Clun mention Llandysyll in their coverage area :-\
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Yes...Bingo....
1901 Hargrave Northampton. RG13 1453 fol66 pg7
Lloyd Charles Williams 45 Carter on Farm, Llandysyll ~ Montgomeryshire.
Mary Ann 45 Bucks Newport Pagnell.
William Albert 11 Northants Rushden
Ernest Walter 9 Middx Ealing
William Albert is witness at marriage of Ethel and Ernest in 1914.
Now to find him with his father Walter Williams.......... ::)
;D 3x panels of fence to do first and get over the shock of finding him.... ;D
1901 is he Lloyd Chas up in Northants ? what was he doing there?
working i suppose
not just as a carter on far but On Horse too ;D
1891
RG12; 1029; 11; 16
Woodside Ealing
Lloyd C Williams head m 35 guardman b. Llandysyll ~ Montgomeryshire
Mary Ann wife 35 b. Newpot Pagnall Bucks
William A 1 b. rushdon Northants
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Les i can't find a Llandysyll onthe map but ii have found a Llandysul, Llandyssil, Powys,
do you think they could be the same place
and i have not obviously spotted Lloyd Charles / Charles Lloyd prior to 1871 either
have you found Walter in eariler census cruically the 1861
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how about this birth
Births Mar 1914
WILLIAMS Lloyd C Williams Machynlleth 11b 218
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Just looked up Landysill on the reg list Freebmd thingy....
:o Montgom 1837-1870 then Forden 1870-1935
Marriage Lloyd Charles Williams + Mary Ann Gays Sept 1888 Brentford
Florence Clara Gays on marriage of Ethel and Ernest. (now I know ;D )
Mary Ann from Bucks Newport Pagnell. on census 1901/1891
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ok Forden,
the birth i posted above is 1914
but loyd C (maybe Charles) mmn. Williams :o
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Have to store that birth as a maybe... Their first born is Winifred... then Lloyd is used for the next boy...
Oh blast...hang on..
added......... born Luton.. last child 1919 Maidenhead Ernest ::)
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i can't see any Williams* born Forden prior to 1870 i must be doing something wrong
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It was Montgomery before 1870....... :-*
Just looked up Landysill on the reg list Freebmd thingy....
:o Montgom 1837-1870 then Forden 1870-1935
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ok ;D
how does 1865 grab you ?
Charles Lloyd Williams 1865 Jul-Aug-Sep Hay Breconshire, Herefordshire, Powys, Radnorshire
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do we know Walter Williams wife ? might find him that way
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Oh..Toni, I saw that one..... andddddddd the wifey is from Gt Marlow Bucks.... :o
But aren't they are on 1891 as well... he can't be in 2 places......... :-\
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Charles Lloyd Williams + Emma Newman 1889 Llanelly.......
Haven't found Walter or Richard getting married..........yet .. ;D
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he could have been enumarated twice but its probably not him
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Charles Williams x 3 in Montgomery 1855-1856 no Lloyds i wonder if the PR's will help you :-\ and i keep coming across Charles Howell Williams too
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Charles Lloyd Williams + Emma Newman 1889 Llanelly.......
Haven't found Walter or Richard getting married..........yet .. ;D
that would makehim 30 odd
no marriage before ?
i can understand if he was serving - was he serving?
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do you have a census with Richard & Walter on to refresh me ?
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No nothing, only Richard Williams death card1876 aged 77
and a pic of Walter Williams, being told he is Ernest's father.......... ::)
OH bellowing for food.......... bbiab.... ;D
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Richard died Berriew but we don't know where he was born is that right
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and a pic of Walter Williams, being told he is Ernest's father.......... ::)
and Ernest was born when?
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just posting this for ref,
RG10; 5620; : 73; : 9
back later
ps does Richards burial card give any more details such as Blacksmith of .....
that would be really handy
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umm and
RG12; 4595; 92; 2;
Richard / Ernest
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Yikes.... Walter Williams is Grandfather of Ernest Walter Williams... sorry ;)
Lloyd Charles is father of Ernest Walter........... ::)
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Richard Williams of Wood Cottage, Pennant.
c1801~ 6/8/1878 Berriew Cemetary 10/8/1878.
V
Frances Mary Ann Williams. + Thomas Turner
c 1832 ~ 13/9/1902 Maidenhead churchyard. Walter Williams
V V
Katherine Turner + Robert Norris Lloyd Charles Williams + Mary Ann Gays
c1856
V V
Ethel Norris 1889 + Ernest Walter Wlliams c1891
Witnefsefs = William Albert Williams & Florence Clara Gays
Place = Corby, Northants.
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thanks for putting the years - makes it easier to search
i wodner if there were any conflicts that would mean they were not enumarated? Boer War etc
Do we think Walter is older/ younger than Frances who m. ThomasTurner
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just guessing
RG9; 3355; 105; 2;
Richard 71 father - too old ::)
Mary 59
Walter 25 son
Charlotte 21
Jane 27
Mary Ann 16 - dau too young ?
Thomas 23
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::) Where's that then Toni... It looks good. RG 9 = '61
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yes 61 up north somewhere i forget now memory liek a fish
Richard would be 10 years too old
i thought Mary Ann could possibly be Frances before she married but too young 1845 birth date and Walter
coincidence probably
do you have Frances in earlier census
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,276294.msg1601101.html#msg1601101
Summary on this link........ ;D ;D Gives censusiii and useful stuff
my gosh... I can't believe I haven't got past page 1 in tying up ends..... :-X
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is Kiddo through this line too ?
what does IGI give for Richard Williams b. 1801 anywhere ?
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was Berriew cem. the local cem. for several different parishes
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there is a Frances Williams b. Montgomeryshire 1833 on IGI BUT she doesnt have a father Richard
is that info from the marriage cert?
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hhmmmmm
RICHARD WILLIAM
Christening: 01 DEC 1799 Berriew, Montgomery, Wales
Father: WILLIAM EVANS Family
Mother: CATHERINE
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Kiddo is the Grandchild of the first wife's child. That's all proving just as difficult...
Berriew, Montgomery..... I don't know Toni. ??? ???
Following that Glasbury, Radnor... Richard Williams in 1841 a farmer... bc 1801 with a wife Mary bc1811....
Oh flip... why did I start this now.... :-[
Added........ posts x'd ... Is there.. who's her father ???
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just bookmarking the page - for whats it worth with littel internet access ;)
on the subject of Berriew, Hepburns sacvenger hunt led there the Finneys of Berriew i wonder how large the town is or was back then as certainly they appeatr in the town in the same time frame.
will try to search the historical directories, would be interested to know if the knew each other and were interconnected, most probably did know each other
Just found this........... ;D
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This is her father from marriage cert...
Found the 1833 Frances... Ellis Williams and Mary Jones.... did something happen and Richard brought her up as his child....... ???
Back to this tomoz... Nitey..
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thats difficult to read, ::)
whats his occupation
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Coachman.... ::) Think the ink is going....
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ah yes i see Coachman now, i wonder if Inn & Coaches ?
i saw the R and the ARD from Richard quite clearly but did think if it could have been Reverend Williams, he might be easier to find you'd think
or even Reward - but i have to go along with Richard also.
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so Frances prior to 1861
how about this in 1841
not with family
Newtown & Llandloes Union Workhouse
Frances Williams 6 BIC (Montgomeryshire)
HO107; 1436; : 8; 68; 7; 19;
Not listed next to Frances but we have a Mary Williams 9 and an Elizabeth Williams 4
where was father Rcihard if these are your girls
the workhouse borders were different from the parish / county borders and quite often would straddle two or more
i wonder if workhouse records from this period exist for this workhouse, these should tell you the reason for entry the date of entry and same for leaving
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link to page 19 part 2 from Hepburns hunt
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,272423.msg1568455.html#msg1568455
further down the page David Pinkney says that unfortunatley Montgomeryshire is not well covered on IGI
::)
do they have an OPC?
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do they have an OPC?
unfortunately it seems not
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/monmouthshire-opc.htm#anchor114272
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Hi
I've got lots of information/records on Montgomeryshire that aren't on line. Can you summarise what you need, Lesanne, and I'll have a look through my files :)
Gadget
PS - Don't think Montgomeryshire have an OPC either
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It's Frances Williams bc 1830/4 Berriew Montgomery. Her birth and Parentage, bit of a struggle.
Anything you have would be welcome. Thanks Gadget. :D
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Hi Lesanne :)
I've checked through my records and can't find Frances (or Richard). In fact, there seem to be very few Williams in Berriew. They could have been non-conformists and thus not included in my bits and pieces.
Also interested in this entry:
So this is the Turner family in Bray Berkshire in 1871.....
Thomas Turner 53 Head Gardener born Cox Green, Berkshire
Frances M Turner 36 Wife Berriew, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Sophia E Turner 13 Daur Stainmore, Middlesex, England
Mary S Turner 12 Daur born Stainmore, Middlesex, England
Lewis I Turner 5 Son born Maidenhead, Berkshire, England
Harriett E Turner 2 Daur born Maidenhead, Berkshire, England
Albert J Turner 1 Son born Maidenhead, Berkshire, England
Charles Williams 15 Nephew Ag Lab born Montgomershire, Berriew
Esther M Williams 12 Step Daur born Montgomershire, Fordon
Jane Williams 11 Step Daur born Montgomershire, Fordon
I've been looking at the two step daughters and the nephewon the 1861. Only thing that I can come up with so far is an Esther in the Newtown & Welshpool workhouse :-\
No real hit on Frances either - I thought she might have been in Shropshire but nothing. Thinking that she could be listed as Frances, Fanny or (maybe) Florence or even Mary/Mary Ann.
Again if Richard was living in Pennant in 1878, I can't find him there on the 1871 :-\
I'll keep looking under a range of names.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
LEsanne has a burial card for Richard in 1878 in Berriew - of course this doesnt mean he was there previous to that
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;D Just looking for it Toni.... Doing a look see for Kia's Collins/Force 8) Oo found a.. Susanna Code Holman in Kea Cornwall 1816.
Here it is.....
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Oo found a.. Susanna Code Holman in Kea Cornwall 1816.
yes d/o Jane Holman and Stephen Code, Miner
not yet connected ;D
back to your Williams then
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Hi Gadget
LEsanne has a burial card for Richard in 1878 in Berriew - of course this doesnt mean he was there previous to that
Yes toni. I read the thread fully. I noticed that he was living in Pennant (higher up in the mountains of Montgomeryshire) but was buried at Berriew. He died Pennant in 1878.
This is what I have been looking for.
Gadget
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Lesanne
Are you sure the certificate says Coachman. I do recall a Richard Williams, coal man on one of the censuses. Too late for me to check up again now but it might be worth considering.
Gadget
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Gadget, Morning
My Geography of Wales is not very good, glad you read it through i tend to skip bits and then realise later we have covered that :)
Maybe then if he lived in Pennant there was a reason he was buried in Berriew, unless Berriew cem. served Pennant as well
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Pennant does have a burial ground - see Genuki for MI details.
I have a map of the Montgomeryshire Parishes but can't put it up because of CE.However, Pennant is some distance from Berriew with a fair number of other parishes between them. There can be no reason for him to be buried Beriew unless he had some connection there.
Gadget
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i think from googling there was Rev E Williams about in 1800 in Salop
not that this is any help
in 1821 Berriew the Rev was T Richards
not sure if this is getting us anywhere
Montgomeryshire Collections
http://members.lycos.co.uk/powysland/montcollections.htm
and now throwing anything into the pot
http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/ARCHway/toc.cfm?rcn=154&vol=12
~~
perhaps i should stick to the Turners
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Not following what you're doing, toni - where do the vicars come in :-\
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I'm not entirely sure that the fathers name from the marriage cert is Richard, it looks more like Revrend to me, or maybe Reward maybe (what we are assuming to be an ) R is a P , but it just doesn't look like Richard
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It looks very much like Richard to me.
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are there directories for Berriew circa 1800 ? when Richard was born, maybe there are Williams families there
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Hi Lesanne :)
I've checked through my records and can't find Frances (or Richard). In fact, there seem to be very few Williams in Berriew. They could have been non-conformists and thus not included in my bits and pieces.
Gadget
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if they were non-conformist would this be recorded on the marriage certificate?
i.e. according to the rites of the .... church (Catholic / Church of England )
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Frances/Mary Ann might or might not have been. There are lots of 'ifs' and 'mights'.
I think the best approach is to try to work back from the 1871 census information on Frances/Mary Ann and try to find her and the young Williams children on earlier censuses.
Also interested in this entry:
So this is the Turner family in Bray Berkshire in 1871.....
Thomas Turner 53 Head Gardener born Cox Green, Berkshire
Frances M Turner 36 Wife Berriew, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Sophia E Turner 13 Daur Stainmore, Middlesex, England
Mary S Turner 12 Daur born Stainmore, Middlesex, England
Lewis I Turner 5 Son born Maidenhead, Berkshire, England
Harriett E Turner 2 Daur born Maidenhead, Berkshire, England
Albert J Turner 1 Son born Maidenhead, Berkshire, England
Charles Williams 15 Nephew Ag Lab born Montgomershire, Berriew
Esther M Williams 12 Step Daur born Montgomershire, Fordon
Jane Williams 11 Step Daur born Montgomershire, Fordon
I've been looking at the two step daughters and the nephew on the 1861. Only thing that I can come up with so far is an Esther in the Newtown & Welshpool workhouse :-\
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:D Morning Gadget & Toni... Thanks for your help.
Frances Mary Ann Williams in 1861 census, has never been found ......... ??? ??? :o Unless it was snuck in while I wasn't looking..... ;D
Posting the witnessess on Tom & Frances mar: 1867
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so who is the James fellow ?
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Looks like an Eliza Williams there, Lesanne.
Worth following up :D
Got to go off for a while - hope you've found her by the time I get back :)
PS - looks like James Marok for the other one - maybe a friend of Tom's
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Going to take a mooch about, see if the wit's come up in 1861 ;)
-
or 1871 - closer than 1861 to 1867
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Got him.....
Cox Green, Berks. 1861 James Marsh 24(1837) Lodger from Kintbury, Berkshire.
Now the other one... Eliza M....Elizabeth :-\ Williams ~Wilward
-
Or Wilson
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Interesting ~
The workhouse find for both Frances and Esther. Go to
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/
and put Forden in the search box at top left.
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That link not working.. tried all ways to search engine :-X
-
Still works for me - try doing a Google on Workhouses . It comes up top of the listing.
I'm just going through the Berriew 1841, page by page. I also think that some of Forden is missing from the 1861 :-\
-
Got 'institutions'... but nothing that has a search window... ???
Added....... what info does it give please Gadget.. ;)
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It should be the box above the left hand column.
If you put in Forden, you get up the page relating to the Montgomery and Pool Workhouse covering the parishes of
Aston, Berriew, Brompton and Rhiston, Castlewright, Chirbury, Churchstoke, Cletterwood, Forden, Hope, Leighton, Llandysil, Llanmerewig, Montgomery, Lower Pool, Middle Pool, Upper Pool, Trelystan, and Worthin.
The workhouse location was in Forden
Try these links:
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Forden/
or
users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Forden/Forden.shtml
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This link works for me:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Forden/Forden.shtml
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I might have found something interesting on the 1841 - Parish of Berriew, Township of what looks like Tawtiwelin*? There's a small hamlet/group of houses called Pennant (not the parish) and here at 'Shop' ** are:
Williams
Richard, 40, ag lab
Esther, 35
Mary, 11
Jane, 9
all b. County
HO107/1440 Bk 14 Folio 12 Page 16
I'll try and locate this place on the map sites. This Pennant is part of the parish of Berriew and would make sense with your MI.
Given that Frances Mary Ann's daughters were called Esther and Jane on the 1871, it seems a possible family. Mary's age is a bit out from your info on Frances Mary Ann but not that much.
Looks very interesting.
Gadget
* header page looks like Trwstywelyn
** just looked at a much better image - it's Cross not Shop ::)
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Lesanne, do you have the birth certs or refs for Esther and Jane Williams, b.c. 1858 and 1860, Forden ?
The certs of either may give some interesting info on their mother
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:D Is there a 'Wood Cottage'.. as on the card.... oooo ;)
-
Not on the 1841 but I've found it on the map - it's got lots of woodland around it. I'll try and get a link but OS maps are difficult to link to.
It's to the SW of Berriew close to the Montgomery canal
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Ok, I'll take a look..
What do you think it says ... Bus to London... ;D ;D
Left hand page of the1841 Pennant.. Catherine Williams on line above..
-
Here's the Streetmap link:
Click for Map (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/idmap.srf?x=316555&y=297150&z=120&sv=316555,297150&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=idmap.srf&searchp=ids.srf&lm=0)
You can zoom out and see it's location to Berriew village itself.
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Ok, I'll take a look..
What do you think it says ... Bus to London... ;D ;D
Left hand page of the1841 Pennant.. Catherine Williams on line above..
Officer of London Central ;D ;D ;D
-
Esther Williams' birth registration:
Sept. Q, 1858, Montgomery, Vol 11b page 211
I think this is worth you getting, Lesanne. it might tell us what name(s) Frances Mary Ann used before marriage.
Gadget
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Thanks very much for that........ :D
I can't think why on earth I haven't got them already...... ???
Just searching my pc to see if there is any reason why.... 8)
Gotta go to parents eve at 4o/c :-\
Added from notes to me............... George was born on 9th May 1854 and christened the next day to Frances Williams at St. Martin in the field Workhouse, Westminster, London. Oh Lardy......... ::)
-
I've been looking into young Charles, the nephew, but there are about 3 or 4 possibles for him. He'd possibly lead us to some interesting relatives.Will have to investigate further.
-
Bingo.... :o ;D ;D
Baptisms from The House of Industry... Forden, Montgomery.
Mary Williams servant.
Illegitimate daughters,
Esther June 20th 1858 = sept q 1858 Montgomery
& Jane March 2 1860 = Mar 1860 Montgom 11b 250
Charles c1856 =dec 1856 11b 216 montgom
George 9/5/1854 w minster. =jun q 1854 St Martin 1a 291
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I thought that I saw some online records on that link ;)
-
:-X ....Argh......... where are they in 1861......
FrancesMaryAnn.... Esther.......... Jane...Charles....... George...... Coooooo'eeeeeeee
-
I think that they might be on the missing pieces - I looked at Forden - only two pages - will look again but :-\
PS - I wonder when she decided to become Frances ::) ::)
-
Hi Gadget, Frances came about at the birth of George in St Martin in the fields Westminster London....... why chose Frances ???
Added from notes to me............... George was born on 9th May 1854 and christened the next day to Frances Williams at St. Martin in the field Workhouse, Westminster, London.
-
So she must have gone to London as a domestic servant then - mmmmmm
The 1841 shows one of the Pennant houses as rather large - and that son of Catherine's as an Officer <something> in London Central :o
worth following up, me thinks :)
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;D ;D ;D Yes, that London Bus Driver.... ;D ;D
I had a look for him.... B4 that Parents eve...
40 mins late... what are you to expect if parents are not on time....Argh :-X :-X....
Tomorrow, I leave for M'chester from Sussex... :-\ :-\ Must find snow boots before I turn in... :P
-
Before you go, have a look at Mary Williams, aged 31, unm, grocer, in Montgomeryshire on the 1861:
RG9/4254 Folio 104 Page 11
I think it's in the same area as the 1841 address
-
Okies...bbiab
It's certaily possible... right bplace and age. Just the Martha x2 Miriam and John in the house..... :-\
Shall have to see what happens to them in 1871 as FrancesMaryAnn is a Turner in 1867.
-
Think this is Esther in 1861:
RG9/4253 Folio 69 Page 7
a 'nurse child' aged 2. b. Mont. House of Industry
-
:D Oh well done Gadget. Yes that's Esther for sure... has to be.... ;D
-
The others might well be on the missing Forden pieces. There are only 2 pages and they look as if they're at the end of a Book :( :( :(
-
Thanks for that Gadget. ;)
How we rely on the census info :-\ Where else to look... If I get to Berriew/Pennent what else would have them recorded... :-\
Toni's tax records ect....
I did find 1861 a Mary Williams in St Chad, a Brothel House servant... no sign of anyone else belonging with her though.
When I get home... that 'London Cabbie'. Hmmmmm.
Frances's son George born May 1854 in St Martin's workhouse, Westminster, so she must be in London 1853/54. Then back to Forden/Berriew for Esther 1858 & Jane 1860.
Jane would be 1yr at census 1861.
Charles (nephew) 1856 Montgom. Errrr. :-\
;D Lots to do ......... ;D
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Hi Lesanne
Where was the Shrewsbury one born? Also, what denomination did she marry under?
I've checked for baptisms for Frances/Mary and Jane and I've searched for a Richard marrying an Esther 1820-1830 but can find nothing in Montgomeryshire. There is only one marriage of these names that sems at all possible - in Shrewsbury in 1825 on the IGI. Even if they were non-conformists, they parents would have been married in C of E.
I think the best way forward is to try to find Richard (d. 1878) on the 1871. I tend to not have much faith in the 1861 anyway because of the missing pieces (myr grt grandad and brother are missing in Montgomeryshire/Denbighshire in 1861).
Gadget
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wow you two did a lot of work yesterday just catching up with it, I did look for Richard Williams on the 1871 census but he wasn't easy to spot
i know this is a simple thing and has probably been looked at but did Richard Williams leave a will?
ps am a wee bit confused if Frances was Frances Mary Anne or Frances Mary Jane - sorry
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It looks as if Frances added the Frances at a later stage and was Mary or Mary Ann. It is likely that she had a sister, Jane.
I don't think there would have been a will but it might be worth checking.
toni* - did you check for a Richard William as well as Williams - this is fairly common
Gadget
-
i know i checked under several different possibilites but it was a few days ago now,
so Mary Anne Williams added Frances later on and had a sister Jane , mother Esther and Father Richard is that what we are at
-
Yep
Has Lesanne got Richard's death cert. or ref ? The informant might give a clue. It's on the North Wales BMD.
Too many Esther Williams 1841 - 1880 to home in on.
Gadget
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No i don't
think know if she has :-\
that would be a good idea , the next step i guess
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Only one that fits is
Sept q 1878, Newtown, vol 11b page 137 aged 77
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Hi Girlies, Back home now.
The wipers are still going back and forth infront of my eyes. 8)
::) Took everything bar the kitchen sink, in case of being 'snowed in'.... not a flake in sight....
Got to the archives this morning.. with all ref's that I wanted to look up and finish off next week....shut....Grrrrrr ... >:(
But, became a library member and have a book on The Norris Papers, so that will keep me quiet for a while.... ;D
Thank you very much for the added info here.. No, I have only Richard's funeral card.
I was going to get the 4 birth certs ( the children Esther,Jane,George and Charles the lonesome nephew...)
Will take another look through posts tomoz, with awake eyez... ;)
-
did you consider getting Richards death cert too?
-
Guess what Lesanne's going to get for Christmas :D
-
Hiya,
All afternoon going through the 1861 census around Forden area.. Just in Pennent at the mo... :o
-
Lesanne - make sure it's Pennant the township and not the Parish.
-
:D Ah, thanks Gadget... I've just done Darowen, halfway Llanrhaiadr.. :-\
-
Think you're in the wrong parishes.
Here's a link to the parish map
Refer to Genuki Montgomeryshire for the parishes:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MGY/indexpars.html
Gadget
( having the electric circuits go so might disappear shortly ::) )
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I really think that they're on the missing 1861 pieces:
Check on Ancestry for missing pieces for MOntgomeryshire:
http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=List&dbid=8768&offerid=0%3a7858%3a0
and scroll down to the Wales 1861 Census heading and click on 'Click here'
Gadget
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:-\ Yep. Forden only 2 pages... ::) I was hoping there might be some obvious family abouts.... nothing jumps out does it.... :P :P
One thing, is the name of Williams isn't that popular.... There are one or two youngsters working on farm's as servants.... not many actual Williams families.... :D
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That's what I thought the other day :-\
The others might well be on the missing Forden pieces. There are only 2 pages and they look as if they're at the end of a Book :( :( :(
Although Williams is a Welsh surname, at this time the highest concentration is in Caernarfonshire, then Anglesey and Merionethshire and then the other counties surrounding.
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I shall order Richards death and Esther his wife ..need to find her ref.. ::)
For now Richard in censuscii '41.'51.'71 ('61 possible innkeeper)....
These look interesting.. possible rellies of Richard ??? ???
1861 Berriew Mont
Thomas 42 Williams ag lab from Montgomeryshire Llanu.....?
Elizabeth 39 Tryg.......?
Thomas 12 Forden
George 10 "
Stephen 8 "
Anne 5 "
John 3 Berriew
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:o Where to start... pages of notes here ;D
For now Richard in censuscii '41.'51.'71 ('61 possible innkeeper)....
These look interesting.. possible rellies of Richard ??? ???
1861 Berriew Mont
Thomas 42 Williams ag lab from Montgomeryshire Llanu.....?
Elizabeth 39 Tryg.......?
Thomas 12 Forden
George 10 "
Stephen 8 "
Anne 5 "
John 3 Berriew
1841 Broad Street Montgomery
Thomas Williams 70 shoe maker
Ann 75 wife
//
1841 Broad Street Montgomery
Richard Williams 40 Shoe Maker
Esther 40
Jane 15
Esther 10
Thomas 7
//
John Williams 25 Grocer
Charles Williams 20 Draper
Margaret " 20 Dressmaker
Richard Williams 60 Ag Lab
Elizabeth " 70
1841 Also close neighbours= Weaver
Edward 50 Butcher
George 29
Ann 26 Dressmaker
~~~~~
1861
Broad Street 7
Richard Innkeeper 68
Easther 64
Jane 34
Easther 28
Broad Street 12
Charles Williams 43 Innkeeper bp Kerry Montgomeryshire
Mary 31 Salop
Jannet 9
Laura 7
Margaret 5
8) Charles Bryan 3=1858
Anne William 5mnths
Richard Widow 50 Brother bp Kerry Mont
Richard apprentice 15 Salop
// next street :o :o :o James Marsh is witness to Tom & Frances wedding 1867
Thomas Marsh 32 Pig & Cattle dealer Rugton?Salop
Mary Marsh 25 montgom
Sarah Elizabeth Marsh 2 "
// Arthur Street has more.....
Jane Williams Wid 46 Mongomery
Henry 25
Sarah 16
Charlotte 13
Samuel 11
Charles Howel? Williams 8
Firzah ? 5
//
Sarah Weaver neice to William Wilding 35 Attorney at Law.. ??? ??? ???
//
still in Arthur Street
Ann Ralph 73 Widow......... Elizabeth Ralph 4yrs with Esther Williams 2yrs 'our' nurse child........... both children with elderly Weaver family Thomas 76 & Jane 60 in Llandysill, Montgomery.
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The 1861 certainly looks like the family. Do you think Richard was Thomas and Ann's son?
Think the Shropshire one couldbe Ruyton (Ruyton XI Towns)
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My head is spinning.... I think... ;D
Thomas and Ann have children
Thomas who goes to Berriew
Richard the shoemaker and
Charles the Draper.......
Richard the shoe becomes the innkeeper as does Charles.
Richard the shoe has a Richard who becomes widowed and lives with brother Charles in 1861.
Oh Lawrdy how can Richard the widow be his uncles brother............... ;D
I've gotta turn in.... nitey all......
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:D Morning Gadget,
Cold and very frosty here but clear and bright. 8)
Just gotto see to the animals, then...... ::) :P :P
Do you know if Forden has lost pages on other census.
...............Trying to find the House of industry 41-51-61 it seems to be in Forden... :-\
-
Morning, Lesanne :)
Yep - Forden was where the House of Industry was - I'll go take a look. It was a seperate district within Forden on the ones that I looked at the other day.
-
It was called the Montgomery and Pool Workhouse up until 1870. I'm wondering if it's tucked away in the Montgomery pieces :-\
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8) Montgomery Forden 1851... 3 pages. says house of industry on enumaration description, but I can't find it.
There is a family with Francis as surname... I wonder if Frances was a mother/grandmother name, that she got as her middle name etc etc........ Argh... :-\
-
HI
i'm back
So Charles the nephew - do you think that he could be son of Charles the Draper
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Think that Richard's death cert might give us some clues - who was in the Berriew/Forden area in the 1870s?
-
yes hurry up postie and bring those certs
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Just found this.... saving it.. 8) for another Bray Turner day..... :P
Stroud Green BUT in Hornsey Essex
Sir William Paul of Bray (Berks.), Bt. (d. 1686), owned 110 acres. This portion of Stroud Green was then held by his widow, who married Sir Formedon Penystone, Bt., c. 1709, and it passed under Sir William's will to the Paul family. It was presumably among the property inherited from William Paul before 1727 by his daughter Catherine, wife of Sir William Stapleton, Bt. (d. 1740), which apparently then descended to her son Sir Thomas Stapleton, Bt. (d. 1781). By 1796, however, the western portion of 81 acres was held by a Mr. Lucas, who was succeeded in 1808 by John Lucas, who was the owner in 1822. It belonged to a William Lucas in 1823 and was enfranchised for James Lucas in 1856. It was owned by Joseph Lucas between 1861 and 1876 and was finally built over by 1880.[5]
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where did you find that?
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Katherine Pavall (Paul :-\) 15 Jan 1701 Bray d/o William & Kathrine
Rachell Pavl 02 Jan 1696 do.
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:D Hey Toni.. You made it to the finish line then.... ;D ;D
Thanks Gadget and you Toni for your help with this Williams bit. Got quite a bit now and will go through it all.
:o :o That info from Essex......... Well would you believe it.... It was a small ref to Turner family on one of the posts here. I had a little look abouts...... needs more looking into BUT :o well...... never know. Master Ralphy might well be in this direction..
Funny thing is.... There was a Catholic element around 'our' time frame in the area of Kelvedon Hall............ stay with me.......
My father in law asked me if I had found anything on his COX family :-[ :-[ I haven't done... :-[ :-[ for years now... I thought I'd better have a mooch about and 'do' him a booklet for a special presi from me..... :-* :-*
That request takes me to Stock and Ingatstone area in Essex...... I got stuck with Gabriel Coxall marrying Hannah Wright 17th June 1789 in either Writtle or Paglesham. Could be Writtle dist/hundred and she is from Paglesham... :-\ :-\
The ref was from Kevan's Essex 1841 resource..............
Link to my COX thread...... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,346641.0.html
On that site I found Lay subsidy's for 1327 Esx........ :o :o
Ricardo CoCo* and :o Ricardo le Turnour...........
The family Cox is my project and it's not an easy trip.... Not only are there the same names but 2/3 marriages.... after widowed etc.... :o
:o NOT that I want to put you off.... :D :D :D
Don't you just love these smileys....... 8)
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40 Mins Les, pretty quick considering ;)
were your Turners Catholics? :-\
You know if they didn't swear allegience to the King (Protestant) there were usually heavy penalties to pay - have the details at home - but if they didn't swear allegience they were classed as CAtholics
will take a peek at your Cox family thread
;D
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Hello again ;D
was channel flicking this morning for my daughter who is off school with scarlet fever found the histroy channel was showing a programme about the crusades and the name Godfrey cropped up as did my ears but frankly it went in one ear and out the other ::)
then tonight was talking with children about events in 66 - England win world cup, great fire of london, battle of hastings and decided to google other 66 years and found reference to mary De Ferrers :~
July - Mary de Ferrers is ordered to surrender land and Liverpool Castle to Edmund, second son of Henry III.
s decided to have a look again at this thread
but i didn't get any furtehr than the Binfield peeps again ::)
but i have found some ramblings on the Radishes
will try to make sense of them and post
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8) Hi Toni, Glad to see you. Hope you are getting the heating done... Brrrrrrrr.. :-X
I did go to the Inne for 'elpeth on thee Soupe... it was serveth chilled....
Saw your kidder has Sc Fever, give ((hugs)) from me...
I'm doing another sideline on the Norris's... having a look over Somerset way for Jamajo.. we both have Norris/Cross but separate lines... ???
J's is a 'pig' of a line... just trying to fathom it....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,234398.msg1256843.html#msg1256843
The cousin bit in the Grant house >:( argh.... Is it cousin -I-L :-\
I've got to John Norris and Sarah in 1851 but can't find a suitable John in 1841 born abt 1811 in Somerset.
-
yes heating fixed temporarily part on order
have to go back to work Wednesday but Sam can't go back to school until Thursday - day at grandparents then she should be nearly better by then although still on the penicillin
tomorrow wil be spent cleaning younger kids bedroom ready for christmas can't have Nicholas Christmas stepping on lego or fallin over the toys can we.
;)
am pulling all this together its till all over the place
Hurley - Cookham - Binfield - Bray
Turner Sampson was the son of Thomas Sampson of Binfield son of Robert Sampson Clerk to the Counsel of Henry VII (Henry reigned from 22 August 1485-1509)
Turner Sampson died at ‘le place’ Binfield in 1627 leaving a son Christopher
So here we have 4 generations straight off.
From Turners will and Ashmoles Visitation.
Robert Sampson owned a messuage and 28 acres of land in Binfield, for the deeds of which he sued Nicholas Radishe
Chancery court records TNA
Turner Sampson's first wife was Julia, a daughter of John Radishe of Binfield
Visitation docu.
Turner was the godson of Richard Turner of Binfield, who died in 1558 and was buried in the church, and whose wife Katherine, who was also buried there in 1539, was the widow of the above-mentioned Robert Sampson
Bequests are made in Richard Turner's will to Grace Lovelace (daughter of Robert Sampson) and her children, and the residue of his goods are left to his 'daughter Lovelace' and to the children of Thomas Sampson (brother of Grace Lovelace
Visitation docu.
By his will proved in 1558 Richard Turner (Turnor) of Binfield desired to be buried in the chapel of St. Mary in Binfield Church. His corn and cattle not bequethed were to be sold by his executors for mending (inter alia) the 'churche wayes' in Binfield
In 1553 John Cope (his wife Margery and son George) sold the (whole) Manor of South Fawley to Nicholas Radishe of Binfield. He was succeeded about 1558 by his son Nicholas, who sold this manor in 1594 to Francis Moore, who was married to Anne, the daughter of William Twitty Esq., of Boreham in Essex, by whom he had three sons and four daughters. Needing a home to raise his family, he purchased the manor of South Fawley (Berkshire) from Nicholas Radishe Junior in 1594. Around the same time, he was, several times, elected a Burgess and also to a seat in Parliament, where he was a frequent speaker, first for Boroughbridge in Yorkshire (1589) and subsequently for Reading (Berkshire) - between 1598 and 1614. Francis was knighted on 17 March 1616 and died seised of the manors of North and South Fawley on 21 September 1621, when they passed to his widow Anne with reversion to his eldest son Francis.
1558 margaret radish binfield brk archd berks will 10176 will of margarete radishe of binfilde, widow, dated 5 november 1585 witnesses: lawrence heydon, nicholas chamber, john pawlinge. probate 1 july 1588.
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Robert Sampson was around in the late 1400’s early 1500’s he was Clerk to Counsell for Henry VII – he gained land from Nicholas Radishe , Robert was the father of Thomas Sampson and Grace Sampson (Sampson with / without P)
Robert was married to Katherine, it is not known if this Katherine is the mother of Thomas and Grace or not.
Thomas Samson had a son Turner Samson
Turner Samson first wife was Julia d/o John Radishe & Catherine Tailore (13.12.1585)
m. 27.11.1561
Turner was the god son of Richard Turner who died 30.10.1558 (thus making Turner born before this date)
Richard Turner was married to Katherine the same Katherine that was previously married to Robert Sampson
Katherine died in 1539 – church memorial says 13.04.1538
Grace Samson married John Lovelace 15.07.1540 they had children (Richard, Thomas, John, Henry, Anthony, Elizabeth)
It seems John Lovelace had a sister Anne who married John Wener 04.05.1543
Turner Samson had son Thomas 21.11594 and another son Christopher 16.02.1601
Turner died in 1627 at ‘le place’ and his will mentions his son Christopher but not son Thomas
Richard Turners will bequests were made to Grace Lovelace and her children the rest was his daughter Lovelace (I cannot find records of her) and also to the children on Thomas Samson, but which * Thomas Samson is this son of Turner or son of Robert
There is a submitted entry on IGI for Graces Samson birth father Robert mother Katherine Mallett 1520 Binfield died 12 Nov 1579 Hurley
Binfield M020371 marriages 1538-1753
Julyan Keleche (Julia Radiche) + Turner Sampsone 13/12/1585
Jelia Radiche + John Beard 10/8/1562
John Radiche + Catherine Tailore 27/11/1561
John Lovelace + Grace Sampson 17/7/1540
Anne Lovelace + John Wener 4/5/1543
Richard Turner's will 1558
Binfield Church Memorial Catherine Turner 13/4/1538 burial.
Richard Turner 30/ 10/1558
was Richard a toyboy?
Grace Lovelace, widow, and her children
...there then comes a list of Lovelaces, I assume these are the said children - Richard Lovelace (godson), Thomas Lovelace, John Lovelace, Henry Lovelace, Anthony Lovelace, Elizabeth Lovelace
Godson, Richard Oseley, (there is also a Richard Oseley described as "Cosyn", and again described as "Kynnesman")- who is he ?
Daughter, Lovelace (no surname given - looks like she was named after Grace's husband, ) and her children (unnamed)
Godson, Turnor Sampsone
Children of Thomas Sampsone (unnamed - of whom Turnor may be one?)*
Children of Turner Samson
Mare 07.01.1586
Frances 21.09.1589
George 04.04.1591
An 13.08.1592
Thomas 21.01.1594
Francis 24.11.1597
Willm 05 March 1599
Christopher 16.02.1601
Richard 24.02.1603
Katheren 14.07.1606
John 20.04.1611
Josephe 27.02.1612
James 04.02.1615 d. 13.02.1615
Robert 24.05.1618
Elin 28.05.1620
Willm 08.04.1622
Grace Samson / Lovelace lived Hurley
~~~
Susane Sampson b 20/7/1552 Binfield C020371 d/o Sampson.
Marye Sampson 20 Oct 1563 d/o Sampson
John 14 Jan 1587 s/o Samson
Margerit 15 Dec 1554 d/o Samson
-
~~~
now i have found the following records for the LOVELACE
(based on the names given in the will of Rich. Turner 1558)
Anthonie Lovelace m. about the 1st March (strange it says about even though its extracted)1652 Pangbourne Berks
to COLENBERIE ALEXANDER OR MILLER (why the OR ?) now if this be our Anthony than he would be abit long in the tooth for a first marriage considering he was around in 1558
There are Richard Lovelaces around cruically in Hurley but they are dated after the will so unless Richard Turner was telepathic i think these are descendents of Graces children i.e. Graces grandchildren (the same for Anthony above)
infact there are several LOVELACE bapt in Hurley that are extracted and they say s/o Richard so i would pencil in that they be the children of Richard s/o Grace
this might get confusing ::)
Richard Lovelace 14.01.1564 Hurley s/o Richard
Elizabeth 10.05.1566 d/o Ric
Winyfryd 09.11.1567 d/o Ric
Henry 24.09.1569 s/o Ric
William 23.12.1570 s/o Ric
Colleberry 13.12.1572 d/o Ric
Ann 29.03.1573 d/o Ric
Henry 02.09.1574 s/o Ric
John 19.10.1577 s/o Ric
John 09.09.1579 d. 09.09.1579 s/o RIc
John 09.10.1580 s/o John
Marye 21.01.1581 d/o Ric
Vrsula 21.01.1581 d/o Ric
Margaret 22.08.1585 d/o Ric
Hobby 29.10.1588 d. 12.10.1595 s/o Ric
Elizabetha 09.08.1612 d/o Rici
Ricus 15.08.1613 d. 16.10.1614 s/o Rici
Margaret 22.12.1614 d/o Richard
John born 09.02.1615 bapt. 22.02.1615 s/o Richard
Sara 15.07.1618 d/o Richard
William 06.01.1619 d. 15.02.1619 s/o Richard
Marye 24.03.1621 d. 24.04.1622 d/o Richard
Francis 30.11.1623 d. 0.12.1623 s/o Richard
(are Ric & Richard the same person ??? they can't be can they ??? )
Ann 10.10.1595 d/o Henry
Fillis 09.01.1597 d/o Henry
Richard Lovelace 08.10.1599 Hurley s/o Henry
Seinctcler 23.12.1601 s/o Henry
Henry 11.01.1603 d. 20.01.1603 s/o He
Katherin 27.12.1604 d/o He
Abigall 09.05.1608 d. 15.10.1614 d/o Henry
Richard 14.05.1619 s/o Henry
Anne 05.09.1639 d/o John & Anne (hooray the first one with a mothers name!)
John born 27.02.1641 bapt. 06.03.1641 s/o John & Anne
Lovelace 18.10.1642 d/o John Lovelace
John 02.08.1672 s/o William
Richard Lovelace m. Mrs Bridget Springall 12 Aug 1628 Hurley
Lovelace docus at TNA:~
Scope 16th cent-18th cent: Berks (Hurley, etc) and Oxon (Water Eaton, etc) deeds and papers and Lovelace family papers
Repository British Library, Manuscript Collections
Record Reference Add Ch 13611-748, 26218-64, 76385-405 passim; Add MSS 22183-267, 31128-52, 63465-75 passim
Scope 1654-1720: misc Hurley (Berks) mortgage deeds and papers
Repository Northamptonshire Record Office
Record Reference WY 556-70 link to online catalogue
NRA catalogue reference NRA 6423
Scope c1597-1678: Hurley (Berks) valuation 1662 and misc related papers c1597-1678
Repository Berkshire Record Office
Record Reference D/EX 446 link to online catalogue
NRA catalogue reference NRA 19682 Lovelace
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now does any of that make sense
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Thanks so much for finding all this Toni.... Maybe if I were to build a map/tree.. :o
:D In a funny sort of way it does... Turners were also in Binfield after the Lovelaces left for Hurley....
Bisham Abbey rings a bell ... Oh.. I think thats the Hoby family.... unless they married us..etc.
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some of it we had earlier (part 3 & then part 5) but because of the programme and then the googling i thought i would look further into it.- the Radishe conection in particular
so Hurley - Cookham - Binfield - Bray doesnt sound too far fetched does it.
and you really need to write to the royal archivist at Windsor re Robert Samson
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coincidence most probably but will in Kent
give this
Turner Sampson Maidstone 1746 1747 PRC32/63/38b
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Yikes....... :D Thomas Turner married (errrr.. 1852 windsor) Sarah Knight she's from Sevenoaks....
Sarah Knight is his 1st wife (Kiddo's ancestor)
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woo hoo
Robert Sampson, whose family came from Kersey Hall in Suffolk. As a younger son, Robert had to make his own way in life and succeeded in gaining the appointment of clerk to the Privy Council for both King Henry VII and King Henry VIII. His grandson appears in residence at Binfield Place during the Heralds' Visitation of 1589.
so we can deduce from this text that Robert died betwixt 1509 & 1547
Roberts wife Catherine / Katherine married upon his death to Richard Turner
and Katherine was buried in 1538/9
so we can narrow Roberts death down to April 1509 -April 1538
and Robert had elder brothers and / or sisters nd that he came from Kersey Hall Suffolk,
a quick search on IGI gives a submitted entry for Robert SamPson 1521 Kersey he is not ours :(
now looking for Kersey Hall
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1623 I think. Gabriell Cox (for Darell) in there too..... :o :o Maybe they all join together......
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Opps...... :-[
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warden thomas godfrey :)
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now to get from Richard Turner to Ralph
also we have Katherine Baldwin who was not Katherine Mallett who was first married to Robert Samson and then to Richard Turner
Kaherine Baldwin circa 1650's Katherine Mallett died 1539
So Could Katherine Baldwin be Katherine Nee Samson who was bp. 1606 ?
Henry Lovelace how is he realted to John Lovelace who m. Grace Samson aunt of Turner Samson godson of Richard Turner
and Dorothy Lovelace where does she fit in again?
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doing all the Visitation pages....... trying to find some ref in the 1640/60's... ::)
Breaking for a bit to China's
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i have to go for abit myself
hopefully back later
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GENUKI: Wills of Derbyshire - Surnames beginning LMentions: son Samuel LOWE; Ralph TURNER; sister Elizabeth HEATHCOTT; ..... Peter BEARD of Heaton Norris, and Richard TURNER of Macclesfield. ...
www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/ProbateRecords/WillsL.html
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;) Thanks for that Toni,
I had a quick scurry through Turners... will look see Norris and Cox too 8)
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A bit off topic:
1841;
South Hackney
Grove street
Henry Norris 70 Clergyman Y
Henrietta Norris 65 Y
Elleanora Norris 30 N
Ellen Norris 6 N
Anne Norris 5 N ...who wrote the diaries
Albinia Norris 3 N
Mary Norris 2 N
Henry Norris 3months N
This was the same street my 4th great grandparents John Webb and Catherine Webb (and (John) Charles Yeowell, my 2nd great grandfather) were resident in 1841. They're living next door to a Thomas Turner, Carpenter, not born in the county and his wife Jane.
HO 107/699/4 38 page 13
How far away were the Norris'?
Almost forgot!
Also in Grove Street, Tower Hamlets, South Hackney was a William Yeowell (it should be Youell -- no relation) and his (second) wife Sarah and daughter Elizabeth (by his first wife).
HO 107/699/4 37 page 11
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ooooooo :o :o My goodness What a find James.... :o
I've had those diaries on the back boiler for ages.....
We couldn't find any link at the time... Do you think that Tom Turner has anything to do with the others.
Are your John Webb and Catherine from Oxford too!!
Thanks for posting that.
Les
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I have no idea where John and Catherine Webb are from.
I have a tentative marriage for a John Webb and Catherine in Liverpool but that is a long shot.
All I know (and this is completely off topic, so do bare with me):
John Webb, born about 1760 and died in December Quarter, 1842, in Hackney Registration District, he married Catherine
Catherine, born about 1769 and buried 22 November 1848, at St. John of Jerusalem, South Hackney (she was of Well Street, Hackney Wick)
They had issue 7 children, all (except the youngest son, christened at St. Clement Danes, Westminster) christened at St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster, London.
No links to Turner, Norris or Oxford, as far as I am aware.
All I know is that they were in Grove Street, South Hackney and may have known your Clergyman Norris. So no relation but just an interesting titbit.
As for Thomas Turner, I have no idea. I just thought it was a coincidence. Turners are all over the place, as you well know. He could be from anywhere, as he was not born in London/Middlesex.
I forgot to mention that Thomas Turner is aged 75, as is his wife Jane. Neither of whom are born of the county.
Were any of them Carpenters?
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I maybe out of the loop a bit but I did come across this:
http://thepeerage.com/p6348.htm
The name Albinia appears.
Also:
http://thepeerage.com/p15726.htm
This is a Reverend Henry Norris.
Just thought I'd mention it.
Addendum: they married into the Powell family (the same one Baden Powell belonged to) and so they link to my old Stevens (they used to be mine but are no longer) family via a convoluted route.
Addendum 2: it seems this has all been covered before -- how does this Norris/Norreys family link to your own, Les?
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My line I have followed to 1730 and tentatively ( as it's the only couple) to Elsfield and Garsington with John and Elizabeth. The only folks after that are Norreys, where I'm completely at a loss.
Sideways investigation has now brought in every name under the sun. ::) and the closest matches are in the Liverpool line, which goes via Ockwells in Berks and Ricote Oxon...... I think it will be left to my children to sort.
Maybe Oxford and Berks will have their records online by then.
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My line I have followed to 1730 and tentatively ( as it's the only couple) to Elsfield and Garsington with John and Elizabeth. The only folks after that are Norreys, where I'm completely at a loss.
Sideways investigation has now brought in every name under the sun. ::) and the closest matches are in the Liverpool line, which goes via Ockwells in Berks and Ricote Oxon...... I think it will be left to my children to sort.
Maybe Oxford and Berks will have their records online by then.
Hello, Lesanne, I'm Wendy, daughter of Betty, the grand-daughter of Albert J Turner, the Betty from Canada you met. I was idly Googling for Albert J Turner for the family tree, and low and behold, I found this!!! I'm gobsmacked!
Apologies everyone, for co-opting the thread for family reunion, but I don't have PM privileges yet. If someone could PM Lesanne and let her know I'm waving madly, I'd appreciate it very much.
Lesanne, I'm only up to about part 3 of the scavenger hunt, and I'm hampered a bit by being unable to see any attachments (I'm dying to read the article you reference, and all these documents!) but I think there is a detail or two I can help with -- just piddly sidebranch bits and bobs (and I apologise if I don't have this in kosher presentation style...I'm new to this gen stuff) and nothing in comparison to the amazing treasure trove I've found here!
Elizabeth Hazell b. 3 October 1869 , Newchurch, Isle of Wight, m. Albert James Turner 17 June 1899 @ Christchurch, Parish of Streatham, London, residing 39 Francis St, Chelsea, d. 23 December 1939 in Hamilton.
"Lizzie" wasn't born in Chelsea, she was born in the Isle of Wight, like her mother.
Siblings:
Edward- b. c1868 or before, m. Rose
William- b. before October 1871 m. Kate
Her parents:
John Hazell b.?? m. Jane Clements Wilshire 20 June 1845. d. ???
Jane Clements Wilshire b. circa 1828 Newchurch/Isle of Wight?
Married: 20 June 1845. John Hazell residing 20 Rutland Mews, Kensington; Wilshire residing Haylands near Ryde, Newchurch Parish, Parish church; m. by W. Midland, witnesses Maurice and Mary Ann Woods;
In late 1871, I suspect as a widow, Jane Clements Wilshire took her three children, including Elizabeth Hazell, to Fontainebleau, France, presumably to work on an estate. I have a pass signed by Lord Granville: 27.10.1871. (This would have been shortly after the Paris commune...) She was there until 1874.
Parents of parents:
John Hazell's father was William Hazell
Jane Clements Wilshire's father was George Wilshire, Carpenter
You can email me on wendy_waring (at) yahoo.ca
:D
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Have PM'd you..... ;D
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Helloooo friends..have been away for a long time..
Wendy..nice to meet you! Les..thank you for eresending me the link here..appears I have much catching up to do!! My computer crashed last year and I lost all my favourite links for research, much to recap!!
Meanwhile have been connecting to a few rely's on my Goddards side and have sent them here to join us. Regards to toni and gadget and all the other friends this side..looking forward to joining the fray again soon..
Cheers!! ;D ;D
Kiddo
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Hello Cousins,
Home now after spending afew days back home in M'head.
Face in parish records.... and found..
Bray marriages. :D
Ralph Turner + Margaret Turner July 24th 1618
Thomas Turner + Judith Eales May 5th 1631
William Turner + Elizabeth Avelin Sept 8th 1616
William Turner Snr + Anne Hellier Oct 5th 1616
A bapt in Bray... William s/o Rodo Turner June 1621
Bray Burials........
Elizabeth Avelin Dec 27th 1616
Francis s/o Thomas Turnie Nov 11th 1628
;D
John Norris Dec 20th 1612
Robert Norris Aug 21st 1635
So ever onwards and backwards..... ;D
Hope everybody is well. x
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My line I have followed to 1730 and tentatively ( as it's the only couple) to Elsfield and Garsington with John and Elizabeth. The only folks after that are Norreys, where I'm completely at a loss.
Sideways investigation has now brought in every name under the sun. ::) and the closest matches are in the Liverpool line, which goes via Ockwells in Berks and Ricote Oxon...... I think it will be left to my children to sort.
Maybe Oxford and Berks will have their records online by then.
Hello, Lesanne, I'm Wendy, daughter of Betty, the grand-daughter of Albert J Turner, the Betty from Canada you met. I was idly Googling for Albert J Turner for the family tree, and low and behold, I found this!!! I'm gobsmacked!
Apologies everyone, for co-opting the thread for family reunion, but I don't have PM privileges yet. If someone could PM Lesanne and let her know I'm waving madly, I'd appreciate it very much.
Lesanne, I'm only up to about part 3 of the scavenger hunt, and I'm hampered a bit by being unable to see any attachments (I'm dying to read the article you reference, and all these documents!) but I think there is a detail or two I can help with -- just piddly sidebranch bits and bobs (and I apologise if I don't have this in kosher presentation style...I'm new to this gen stuff) and nothing in comparison to the amazing treasure trove I've found here!
Elizabeth Hazell b. 3 October 1869 , Newchurch, Isle of Wight, m. Albert James Turner 17 June 1899 @ Christchurch, Parish of Streatham, London, residing 39 Francis St, Chelsea, d. 23 December 1939 in Hamilton.
"Lizzie" wasn't born in Chelsea, she was born in the Isle of Wight, like her mother.
Siblings:
Edward- b. c1868 or before, m. Rose
William- b. before October 1871 m. Kate
Her parents:
John Hazell b.?? m. Jane Clements Wilshire 20 June 1845. d. ???
Jane Clements Wilshire b. circa 1828 Newchurch/Isle of Wight?
Married: 20 June 1845. John Hazell residing 20 Rutland Mews, Kensington; Wilshire residing Haylands near Ryde, Newchurch Parish, Parish church; m. by W. Midland, witnesses Maurice and Mary Ann Woods;
In late 1871, I suspect as a widow, Jane Clements Wilshire took her three children, including Elizabeth Hazell, to Fontainebleau, France, presumably to work on an estate. I have a pass signed by Lord Granville: 27.10.1871. (This would have been shortly after the Paris commune...) She was there until 1874.
Parents of parents:
John Hazell's father was William Hazell
Jane Clements Wilshire's father was George Wilshire, Carpenter
You can email me on wendy_waring (at) yahoo.ca
:D
Jane Clements is my great great grandfather's daughter. I have just found the marriage to John Hazell and census returns. They were living together on return from France. They had a child born there (Paris). Albert J Turner aged 23 was their lodger in 1891.
I would love to have any info about JaneC. Why was she in France. Can I get a copy of the pass to go to France from Lord Granville.
Jane's parents eloped. I can tell you more and attach certificate/copies if you want to know more.
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Hello Holcom... Can you post another 'reply' .. you need 3 posts to open the personal message feature.
Lesanne. :D
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Hello Holcom... Can you post another 'reply' .. you need 3 posts to open the personal message feature.
Lesanne. :D
Is this 3rd one OK?
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still going on - blimey ;)
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Just how many rellies has Lesanne got........ ;D ;D ;D ROFL ;D ;D ;D
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we are only 6 people apart apparently - all of us
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we are only 6 people apart apparently - all of us
In that case.......have you got an Ernest in your family...... ;) ;) ;)
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Hello Cousins,
Home now after spending afew days back home in M'head.
Face in parish records.... and found..
Bray marriages. :D
Ralph Turner + Margaret Turner July 24th 1618
Thomas Turner + Judith Eales May 5th 1631
William Turner + Elizabeth Avelin Sept 8th 1616
William Turner Snr + Anne Hellier Oct 5th 1616
A bapt in Bray... William s/o Rodo Turner June 1621
Bray Burials........
Elizabeth Avelin Dec 27th 1616
Francis s/o Thomas Turnie Nov 11th 1628
;D
John Norris Dec 20th 1612
Robert Norris Aug 21st 1635
So ever onwards and backwards..... ;D
Hope everybody is well. x
Who would believe that there was still more to find...Good job I didn't post these the other day. It would really wind people up.
Anyway the above need their family.... Who byeft thou....nearest ande dearest... :D
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Lesanne are you allowed to speak like that our of thee Inne ?
Ralph is that son of Ralph?
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didnt you have atree somewhere with Ralpsh children
can you find it ..... please
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I tried all last night to find that tree....... it was posted on this site somewhere in the hunt.
But there was an awful lot of things deleted and moved about. >:(
The visitation diagram. With the .."als Ferrers" too... dissappeared...
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What a shame you haven't got that tree Les ::)
I will have a look around and see if i can help as you have found more family members :)
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i might have it on my home computer but i had a clear up just before christmas
typical
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Only found this so far Les and bet you got this lol.........
There are some for Bray if you scroll down......
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/NORREYS.htm#Edward%20NORREYS%20(Sir)1
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:D Thanks for this Sue.
Yes, its part of THE Norreys tree that I put together with all the lords and lady's of 1400-1650's. Mostly when in Liverpool with all the actual documents of the time.
Do you remember the one where in.. abt 1600 John Norreys wanted his beste breeches back to go a-wooing..... did make me larff.... ;D
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My line never been easy now in Mar q 1870 Maidenhead/Cookam looking for Albert J Turners index ref........
:o :o Two sets of Triplets......... argh....
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I tried all last night to find that tree....... it was posted on this site somewhere in the hunt.
But there was an awful lot of things deleted and moved about. >:(
The visitation diagram. With the .."als Ferrers" too... dissappeared...
The Ferrers diagram is here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,281880.msg1892386.html#msg1892386
most definitely not deleted, but hidden amongst some of the inconsequentials which characterise these threads.
Richard Turner's children here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,281880.msg1845253.html#msg1845253
Not quite sure which Ralph Turner you're referring to, but 7 x 20 pages is a lot to search. However, it is not likely to be completely missing.
Nell
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Hey Nell... thanks for that, that's great.... bit late for consiswenchtials .. ;D
Its the one I made with all these in it. Ralph was another offspring to the Windsor/London Turners.
Now I've found these new pieces, maybe it will gel together. The new cousins wanted to see the cuttings and snippets that have gone. Probably on the parts 1/2/3...
Still working on the Hazell/Wilshire's.... ;)
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Albert James Turner + Elizabeth Hazell
b 4th March 1870 b 3rd October 1869
(Cookham 2c 430) (Chelsea 1a 252)
Married 17th June 1899
Christchurch Streatham
(Wandsworth 1899 1d 1170)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elizabeth Hazell is the daughter of John Hazell + Jane Clements Wilshire.
Possibly born I.O.Wight and reg in Chelsea.
Why does Jane have "Clements" middle name?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,432721.0.html
Link to Wiltshire thread on this part of family.
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Albert James Turner + Elizabeth Hazell
b 4th March 1870 b 3rd October 1869
(Cookham 2c 430) (Chelsea 1a 252)
Married 17th June 1899
Christchurch Streatham
(Wandsworth 1899 1d 1170)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Elizabeth Hazell is the daughter of John Hazell + Jane Clements Wilshire.
Possibly born I.O.Wight and reg in Chelsea.
Why does Jane have "Clements" middle name?
Not sure about Jane's extra name...
Here are their children...
Albert Henry Turner JUN-SEP 1900 Bray, Berkshire
Elizabeth Violet Turner 14 February 1903 Fairhill Stables, Shipbourne, Kent
William Turner 1904/early 1905? in Kent?
All three kids and mom and dad, along with various rellies, emigrated to Canada. They went in 1905.
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Of the records you found, Les, for the task of getting further back from our Ralph Turner, d. 1689, likely b. 1650ish
Bray marriages. :D
Ralph Turner + Margaret Turner July 24th 1618
Thomas Turner + Judith Eales May 5th 1631
William Turner + Elizabeth Avelin Sept 8th 1616
William Turner Snr + Anne Hellier Oct 5th 1616
A bapt in Bray... William s/o Rodo Turner June 1621
it seems to me that William Turner, son of Rodo, might be our man... That would put him in has late 20s when our Ralph is born, and Rodo could very well be short for Rodolphus/Radulphus, aka, Ralph.
Highly speculative, I'll grant you...
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What a shame you haven't got that tree Les ::)
I will have a look around and see if i can help as you have found more family members :)
Can you give me a name, dob etc for this lovely lady in the photo, please
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Bringing forward anything relevant to Bray around time of Master Ralphy & Mystress Susannah
Restricted User
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 387
Re: Lesanne's Scavenger Hunt..... Part 5... Everyone Welcome to join in.........
« Reply #51 on: Friday 18 January 08 21:59 UTC (UK) »
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Inventory of Ralph Turner 1689
A true and perfect Inventory of all and singular the Goods & Chattels of Ralph Turner of the parish of Bray in the County of Berks husbandman late deceased Appraysed by us whose names are hereinunder written the 22. day of August Ann. Dom. 1689
£ s d
Imprimis his weareing Apparrel 02 00 00
....... of .... Bookes 00 05 00
...... feather Bedde 3 Bolstr. 8 Pillowes
4 flock ..... 5 Bolsteres 2 pillowes
3 settes Curtaines .... & other Furniture
to the said bedde 09 17 00
It[em] 4 Trunks 2 Chestes .. boxese
28 old Chaires 5 old Tables & 2 Formes 03 12 05
It one Breding peece & Iron pott
1 brasse pott 3 kettles 2 skilletts
& 1 warmeing pan 01 14 06
It 1 Jack six spitts 2 paire Andirons
& other Items belonging to the Fire 01 16 04
It one Furnace, Meash tubb &
other Brewing Vessells 02 00 00
It 1 Cheese press 9 Drink tubbs &
other Lumber about the house 02 19 02
It 16 pewter Dishes & other
small peeces of pewter 01 05 00
It 13 paire of sheets 4 pillowbeers &
3 table Clothes 2 dozen napkins
& 3 Towells 04 10 00
It all his Winter Corne 15 00 00
It all his Summer Corne 44 00 00
It 4 old ho... Ca...s & 1 Colt 10 00 00
It 4 Bullocks & Calves &
6 hoggs & piggs 10 10 00
It 50 sheepe & Lambs 12 00 00
It 2 Carts & 1 Waggon 08 00 00
It plowes harrowes Harnis & Sacks 02 05 00
Sumes 132 04 05
In desperate Debts 08 10 00
Willm. Bater Ralph Day Joh[ann]is Winch
Ext~um fuit hmoi [huiusmodi] Inventarium serto die mensis Septembri Anno Dom. 1689
Susannem Turner Administraticem & pleno et .... Inventario in sue protectat ..amen de ......do per. & per.
Signed in left margin: Susanah Turnar
(not in the same hand as the rest of the document, may be herself but couldn't be sure)
Yesssss.....!
(can't make figures line up in the posting, can't seem to tab. it)
With over £132 in goods, not an ag. lab.
Husbandman = Farmer. Below the rank of yeoman; usually a copyholder or leaseholder.
Part 5 page 4
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http://www.berkshirehistory.com/villages/braywick.html
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=31892
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22522
Has Charles turner Bray at Stapleton
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d5vNEFC_fZQC&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=sir+william+paule+of+bray+berkshire&source=bl&ots=q3aYwk_WpX&sig=9ekHxg1i3FUIJjQ-tPQo3yhxmbQ&hl=en&ei=acOGS6jrAoOM0gTu6fXHCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false
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Bray Church
http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/arch-787-1/ahds/dissemination/pdf/BAJ043_PDFs/BAJ043_A11_spokes.pdf
Jesus Chapel Bray = Turner
St Michaels Bray= Norreys
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you found it then
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http://www.berkshirehistory.com/villages/braywick.html
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=31892
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22522
Has Charles turner Bray at Stapleton
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=d5vNEFC_fZQC&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=sir+william+paule+of+bray+berkshire&source=bl&ots=q3aYwk_WpX&sig=9ekHxg1i3FUIJjQ-tPQo3yhxmbQ&hl=en&ei=acOGS6jrAoOM0gTu6fXHCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false
I don't really understand what's been found. Could you spell it out for me, Lesanne? I've followed all your links, but don't see the import. Thanks.
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http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43192&strquery=turner
Lowbrooks.... of Turner/Ferrers era...
copy will of John Winch 1744 at BRO
John Winch is name on inventory.
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Added information for the Scavenger Hunt.
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/lovelace-john-1497-1558
Lesanne
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Grace was the second wife of John Lovelace
she was described as the daughter of Richard Sampson and also the daughter of Richard Turner
is it possible that Richard Sampson and Richard Turner are the same person ?
It is possible she was the god daughter of one of them and the natural daughter of the other.
What name did she marry under? i think from memory it was Sampson in which case was she Grace Turner married to Mr Sampson and thus she became the daughter IN LAW of Richard Sampson and then she married JOhn Lovelace? in which case Richard Sampson need make no further provision forh er but Richard Turner wanted to because she was his daughter ?
Ditto if she was Grace Sampson married Mr Turner etc.
How about if she was the natural daughter of Richard Sampson but the step daughter of Richard Turner ? when did Richard Sampson die ?
i did work on the Lovelaces but cannot remember what i found now, i do remember colour coding it though!
it wasn't usual for daughters to inherit when they were married unless their was no male lineage.
do they connect to the Lovelaces of Kent or not ?