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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Mike in Cumbria on Saturday 29 December 12 12:33 GMT (UK)
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Hello
If anyone is going to the record office and fancies a challenge, could you have a look at this please?
My great great grandmother, Jane (married name Jones) was born in Worthen in or around 1843 - 45. She shows up on a lot of censuses. as seen below:
1871 census RG10 /2793/36 /8
Wood, Burlton
Edward Jones 1845 (26) Agricultural Labourer. Born Ruyton XI Towns, Shropshire
Jane Jones 1843 (28) Born Worthen, Shropshire
Mary Jones 1871 (0) Born Burlton, Shropshire
1881 census RG11/2668/5 /2
Cross Keys, Burlton, Loppington
Edward Jones 1845 (36) Farm Labourer. Born Oswestry, Shropshire
Jane Jones 1843 (38) Born Worthen, Shropshire
Jane Jones 1871 (10) Born Loppington
William Jones 1874 (7) Born Loppington (My great grandfather)
1891 census RG12 /2123 /101/3
Pickhill Lane, Loppington, Burlton
Edward Jones 1845 (46) Farm labourer Born Ruyton of the XI towns
Jane Jones 1844 (47) Born Worthen, Shropshire
1895 Marriage Certificate William Edward Jones and Amy Williams. Father: Edward Jones. Occupation Labourer.
1901 Census RG13/2553 /167/2
Wood Farm, Burlton, Loppington, Wem
Edward Jones 1848 (53) Worker Born Hopton, Salop (is this a 1901 error for Ruyton?)
Jane Jones 1845 (56) Born Worthen, Salop
1911 Census RG14PN16206 RG78PN1003 RD352 SD1 ED10 SN43
Burlton, Loppington
Edward Jones 1846 (65) widower. Farm labourer. Born Ruyton XI Towns, Salop
Although this is an important line for me, I'm having trouble getting back beyond this census data. I can't get to the record office, as I live too far away, and the Worthen parish records aren't available on line.
What would be extremely useful to know from the Worthen records would be:
Did Edward and Jane marry in Worthen (her home parish) if so - when?
Any clues about her birth, and her maiden name
I'm also struggling to find William's birth, which would tell me more about Edward and Jane but perhaps I'd better put that in a different post so as not to confuse the issue.
Many many thanks to anyone that can help with this - it's my biggest puzzler left to solve.
Mike
PS
previous related posts
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,597609.0.html
(the births identified in this thread turned out to be wrong ) :(
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Worthen came under the Montgomery registration district prior to 1870 and Forden post 1870. As daughter Mary was 5mths old in 1871 there is a possibility they married pre-1870
There is an 1866 marriage on freebmd in Montgomery which has Jane Morris on the same page - have you already discounted it?
Edward was b Ruyten which was in the Oswestry RD - there are 2 marriages in 1866 and 1867 with a Jane on the same page
Being realistic - without knowing Jane's maiden name - how will you know if you have the right marriage? The one way of getting that info is via a childs birth cert.
Loppington came under Wem RD but there is no birth reg for Mary who is shown as 5mths old in 1871
There are 2 William Jones births in Wem but not a William Edward
www.freebmd.org.uk
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Edward Jones Jane Morris
Mar. 7 May 1871 Ellesmere from Family Search always helpful
Also Ruyton XI Towns down the road.
www.Melocki.org.uk just misses your family with dates, need 1861 1851 1841 Census.
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Thanks both of you for your replies.
I'm just getting back into gear after Christmas and will check out all these suggestions. You are right, Carol - even seeing a marriage certificate won't tell me that I've got the right couple so birth certificates for William or Mary Jane would be the most useful step. I think I've looked at both those births you found already, but I'll have another look now.
Many thanks again. I'll let you know if I get anywhere.
Mike
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Alberbury
I now remember that I semi-discounted the Edward Jones/Jane Morris wedding in 1871 because Mary Jane was baptised on 7th November 1870 in Loppington.
It could be them, of course, and I may well come back to them later.
Carole - the 1866 Montgomery marriage does look interesting and I don't remember discounting it last time.
Thanks again to both of you for your interest.
Mike
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A long overdue update on this request.
I ordered the 1866 Montgomery marriage certificate, but it turned out that Edward Jones and Jane Morris married other people on the same page, not each other.
The 1871 Ellesmere Edward Jones/Jane Morris marriage is a puzzler. I can see it on Family search but I can't find it on Findmypast, whatever searches I use. Similarly, there's an Edward Jones/ Jane Hughes marriage (25th August 1867) in Oswestry that could easily be them, but that doesn't show up on FindMyPast either.
Any ideas why these marriages aren't showing up in an FindMyPast search?
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Had a look today and could not find Edward Jones and Jane Morris mar. 7 May 1871 Ellesmere. Can you check free BMD.
Edward Jones and Jane Hughes mar. 25 Aug 1867 Oswestry could not find.
bp. 12 Jan 1846 Loppington Edward son of Samuel & Elizabeth Jones of Burlton Farmer
Samuel Jones of this Parish he signed 871.
Elizabeth Darlington of this Parish X mark
mar. 31 Dec 1836 Whitchurch
Pres. James (Smithers) signed, Jane Nunnerley signed
Your Great Great Grandfather William Jones, the dates are not covered by the Loppington fiches.
Could not find an earlier census for Edward Jones born 1845 at Ruyton XI Towns, this would really help.
Not sure about this marriage due to Edward's occupation
Edward Jones full B. Forgeman of Wrockwardine Wood F. dec. _____
Jane Ball age Sp. F. Richard Ball, miner
mar. 26 Dec 1869 Wrockwardine Wood 178.
Edward signed, Jane X mark
Pres. Thomas Payne signed, Ellen Payne signed
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Hi Alberbury
Thanks very much for doing that lookup. The Jane Ball marriage was on my list of certificates to order (I've ordered so many Edward Jones/Jane XXX marriage certificates now!) but I didn't have it down as a likely one because of the wrong area. Now that I see Edward occupation, I'm sure that it's a definite no.
I'll check those other two marriages on Free BMD (I think I already checked and couldn't find them, but I'll do it again).
The baptism record does look interesting, despite it not being in Ruyton. I'll see if I can trace that family forward in time. Where did you get this data from?
Many thanks - you've given me some new avenues and new hope.
Regards
Mike
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Yesterday at Shropshire Archives.
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Yesterday at Shropshire Archives.
Excellent. Thanks a million.
Mike
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OK, in the 1851 census, this looks like the Edward Jones (and Samuel and Elizabeth) that you found. I'll try to track these forward to see whether it could be my Edward, despite being born in Loppington and not Ruyton.
HO107 Piece:1995 Folio:4 Page:1 Reg. District:Wem Parish:Burlton Shropshire
JONES, Samuel Head 46 b1805 Farmer 44 Acres 1 Labourer Born Great Ness, Salop
JONES, Elizabeth Wife 38 1813 born Oswestry, Salop
JONES, Edward Son 5 1846 Farmers Son Scholar Born Loppington, Salop
JONES, Samuel 3 1848 Farmers Son Scholar Born Loppington, Salop
HARPER, Elizabeth Servant Unmarried 17 b1834 House Servant born Preston Gubbals, Salop
STANWAY, Samuel Servant Unmarried 54 1797 Farm Labourer born Middle, Salop
Thanks for the lead - lets hope this one goes somewhere.
Mike
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And I think this looks like the same Samuel and Elizabeth Jones in 1861, but in reduced circumstances. Newton on the Hill is very close to Burlton.
RG09 Piece: 1885 Folio: 15 Page: 23 Reg. District: Ellesmere Sub District: 4 Baschurch
Parish: Newton on the Hill
The Cottage, Harmer Hill, Newton On The Hill
BURD John Head Unmarried 33 born 1828 Curate Of Middle Born Shrewsbury, Shropshire
JONES, Samuel Married 55 born 1806 Gardener Domestic Servant Born Great Ness, Shropshire
JONES, Elizabeth Married 49 born 1812 House Keeper Born Oswestry, Shropshire
Still don't know whether they are my people, but it's building the picture.
Mke
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And there is this Edward Jones in Loppington in 1861. I've looked at him many times before but always rejected him because he was born in Burlton, not Ruyton. He looks like "your" Edward, but could he be mine too? He is a servant at Loppington hall, the home of the Dicken family
JONES, Edward Unmarried 15 b 1846 House Servant Born Burlton Shropshire
RG number: RG09 Piece:1887 Folio:22 Page: 21 Reg. District:Wem Sub District:1 Wem
Parish: Loppington Shropshire
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Brother Samuel, born Burlton 1848 seems to be living next door to his parents in 1861. They all fit with each other now.
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To summarise the last few posts. The Samuel Jones/Elizabeth Darlington sequence does seem to fit together neatly now, and this is their tidied up timeline.
Samuel Jones born abt.1805 in Great Ness and Elizabeth Darlington born abt. 1813 in Oswestry
Married in Whitchurch, 1836. Samuel would be aged 31 and Elizabeth 23. Both “of this parish”
1841 census: No sign of them
1851census: Farming 44 acres at Burlton, employing one ag lab.
They are aged 46 and 38, with two children, Edward (5) b1846 and Samuel (3) b1848 Both boys born “Loppington”. Samuel (father) born Great Ness, Elizabeth born Oswestry. In the same household, a house servant Elizabeth Harper (17) and a farm labourer Samuel Stanway (54)
1861 census: Gardener/Domestic servant and Housekeeper for John Burd, Curate of Middle. Living at Newton on the Hill. Aged 55 and 49. Samuel (son) living next door as a lodger. (Birthplaces Great Ness, Oswestry and Burlton respectively.)
1861 census. Probably Edward (15) is a house servant at Loppington Hall (Dickin family). Birth place Burlton (Burlton is in the parish of Loppington, by the way)
So, given that this Edward had his birthplace as Burlton on two censuses, why would it change to Ruyton XI towns (and Oswestry) on censuses from 1871 onwards? In 1851, his parents would have supplied the information, in 1861 it was probably his employer. From 1871 (and possibly 1861) he would have supplied the information himself. I can't quite convince myself that this is the same Edward Jones as my great great grandfather for this reason.
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Hi Mike,
Had a look today and could not find Edward Jones and Jane Morris mar. 7 May 1871 Ellesmere. Can you check free BMD.
Edward Jones and Jane Hughes mar. 25 Aug 1867 Oswestry could not find.
Hi - no I couldn't find either of these on FreeBMD or on FindMyPast. I think the Latter Day Saints were feeling creative when they recorded these two marriages.
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Oh, *&!xx*
I've completely eliminated that line of enquiry, tempting as it was, with the Burlton connection. In 1871, there are two under-butlers working in neighbouring houses in St George Hanover Square London. Edward Jones, born 1845, Burlton Shropshire and Samuel Jones born 1848, Burlton Shropshire. That's them, as clear as can be, whilst my Edward Jones is grafting away on a farm back in Burlton and raising his family. Oh well, I suppose it's good to knock another Edward Jones off the list of possibles!
Mike
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Mike you have been busy.
Now we have a link to Great Ness. We have a church there, so this will need looking into. I wonder if Samuel baptised there.
Also found on free bmd a marriage of Edward Jones & Jane Harris jun q 1869 Ellesmere 6a 1317
This is a very large district, so many churches to look at. I wonder if Jane Harris could be from Worthen area.
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Mike you have been busy.
Now we have a link to Great Ness. We have a church there, so this will need looking into. I wonder if Samuel baptised there.
Also found on free bmd a marriage of Edward Jones & Jane Harris jun q 1869 Ellesmere 6a 1317
This is a very large district, so many churches to look at. I wonder if Jane Harris could be from Worthen area.
Hi
The Jane Harris marriage is one of the many that I have ordered, and it's unfortunately another wrong one. That particular Edward and Jane were farmers in Flintshire, and I've traced them forward on subsequent censuses.
As for Great Ness, it would have been a good link back to the Ruyton area, but I think that having found their Edward (and his brother Samuel) working in London in 1871 at the same time that my Edward is working on a farm in Burlton, I regretfully have to abandon that line as well.
Thanks for your continued interest and help though, it's massively appreciated.
Mike
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Mike this is not my family, just like a challenge. Jones always going to be difficult especially in Shropshire.
Could not find a marriage of Edward born Ruyton, and Jane born Worthen. Looked at the most obvious. I checked Worthen, Westbury, Loppington, Cockshutt and Myddle.
If the Samuel line works.
Baptisms at Great Ness. all Children of Edward and Sarah Jones
17 Feb 1805 Samuel son of Edward and Sarah Jones
1 Feb 1807 Mary
26 Feb 1809 Martha
25 Dec 1811 Hannah
15 May 1814 John son of Edward & Sarah Jones of Willcot Wheelwright
28 Aug 1814 Sarah dau of Edward & Sarah Jones of Knockin Heath Labourer
15 Oct 1815 Sarah dau of Edward & Sarah Jones of Wilcot Marsh Wheelwright
24 Dec 1816 John son of Edward & Sarah Jones of Knockin Heath Labourer
24 May 1818 Elizabeth dau of Edward & Sarah Jones of Willcott Carpenter
31 Jan 1819 William son of Edward & Sarah Jones of Great Ness Labourer
8 July 1821 Charlotte dau of Edward & Sarah Jones of Wolf's Head Labourer
14 Dec 1823 Edward son of Edward & Sarah Jones of " "
27 Mar 1831 Edward son of Edward & Sarah Jones of Gilraltas ? Labourer
Could you contact the Vicar of Loppington to find your Great Grandfather William Jones. This link http://www.stmichaelsloppington.co.uk/ has look-ups for a small donation.
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Hi Alberbury
Thanks again for your continued help and interest - you must like a challenge! I'm 100% sure though that the Samuel /Elizabeth family is the wrong one because I can see their son Edward (born Burlton) in London in 1871, at the same time that my Edward is in Burlton working on a farm.
I contacted a very helpful man in Loppington who found the baptism records in the Parish Church for my great-grandfather William Edward Jones (aka Edward William Jones) and his sister Mary Jane Jones. They are as follows:
21 Dec 1873. Edward William Jones son of Edward and Jane of Burlton - Labourer.
9.Nov. 1870 Mary Jane Jones dau of Edward and Jane of Burlton - Labourer.
and a note in the margin of Mary Jane entry - born 7 November 1870
I have searched extensively for birth certificates for both of these people and have drawn a complete blank. I paid for a search at Shropshire Archives and had the following response from their extremely helpful staff, who really tried to help.
"Thank you for your online application for the birth certficate of Mary Jane JONES.
Unfortunately, after a search of the Oswestry, Ellesmere and Wem district indices, we can find no trace of this birth entry, or that of her brother William Edward (or Edward William) Jones.
I have found the 1881 census which shows the family living in Loppington, where Mary Jane is shown as being called Jane Jones (age 10). It does clearly show that the children were born in Loppington, Burlton.
I have even had the registers out and gone through page by page to find a match on the parents details, incase there were other children before or after, or if the names given at baptism were not the same as at registration. I noticed there are a couple of families where the father is Edward and the mother Jane, but cannot definitely confirm whether this is your family or not, and I don't want to send you down the wrong family path.
I did find two Mary Jane JONES, one in Prees (Feb 1868) and one in Ellesmere (Feb 1869) but the information did not match. I also found a William JONES, where the parents are Edward and Jane, but it is too early (July 1869).
As you say, Jones in Shropshire (and Wales) was always going to be a challenge, but I really am having trouble with this and am running out of good options.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Morris Jones of Welshpool, afterwards of Ruyton, Salop,
an hereditary burgess of Welshpool, sworn in 1700.
http://www.mocavo.com/Collections-Historical-Archaeological-Relating-to-Montgomeryshire-and-Its-Borders-Volume-19-2/577721/265#221
If you carry these children forward, well you might get lucky.
A line of descent to 1661.
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Thank you very much (again). It would be wonderful if these were my Joneses and I'll have a go at tracing them forwards. There are so many Joneses in that area that I don't hold out much hope, but it would be a fantastic lead if it comes off.
I'll see where it leads.
Mike
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http://www.melocki.org.uk/salop/RuytonInTheElevenTowns.html
This should help.
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=595016.0
Mike, this thread you started has more information.
Looks quite promising.
1871 census RG10 /2793/36 /8
Wood, Burlton
Edward Jones 1845 (26) Agricultural Labourer. Born Ruyton XI Towns, Shropshire
Jane Jones 1843 (28) Born Worthen, Shropshire
Mary Jones 1871 (0) Born Burlton, Shropshire
1861 census RG09/1875/105/8
Lady Hill, West Felton Shropshire
Richard Jones 1816 (45) Agricultural labourer Born Ruyton XI towns
Jane Jones 1818 (43) Born Baschurch
Edward Jones 1844 (17) Carter Born Baschurch
Rebecca Jones 1855 (11) Born Felton, Shropshire
George 1853 (8) Born Felton, Shropshire
Charles 1855 (6) Born Felton, Shropshire
Hariot 1859 (2) Born Felton, Shropshire
1851 census HO107/1993/48/10
Arange Grove? West Felton Shropshire
Richard Jones 1817 (34) Sawyer Born Ruyton XI towns
Jane Jones 1819 (32) Born Baschurch
John Jones 1846 (6) Born Baschurch
Edward Jones 1846 (6) Born Baschurch
Emma Jones 1847 (4) Born West Felton
Rebecca Jones 1850 (1) Born Oswestry
Martha Owen 1838 (13) Niece. Born Baschurch
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Mike, here is another thread you started about Edward Jones. It will help for future reference.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=597609.0
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https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AEdward~%20%2Bsurname%3AJones~%20%2Bbirth_place%3AShropshire~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1840-1850~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3ARichard~
Edward Jones
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 4 April 1844 BASCHURCH, SHROPSHIRE, ENGLAND
father: Richard Jones
mother: Jane
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Richard Jones
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 7 July 1816 RUYTON OF THE ELEVEN TOWNS, SHROPSHIRE, ENGLAND
father: John Jones
mother: Jane
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If only, Alberbury!
That family (Richard and Jane Jones from Baschurch) was my original line of enquiry, and I believed them to be my family. However, after getting in touch with a genuine descendant of theirs, I was shown pretty compelling evidence that I was on the wrong lines. If you have the patience for it, here is the story:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f7j/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f7j/)
At the moment, Edward Jones born 1845,probably in Ruyton XI towns and his wife Jane from Worthen are the furthest I can trace this (my main paternal line).
I'm extremely grateful for your continued interest and help in this search, and am working through the names in the Melocki link that you sent me, in the hope that Edwards family were also from the Ruyton area.
I'm conscious that I have several old threads about this family now, some of them containing wrong information, so I really hope you don't feel frustrated with these Shropshire Joneses!
Mike
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Due to Jane being born in Worthen, a possibility having family in Montgomeryshire.
Possible marriages.
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AEdward~%20%2Bsurname%3AJones~%20%2Bmarriage_place%3AMontgomeryshire~%20%2Bmarriage_year%3A1861-1875~%20%2Bspouse_givenname%3AJane~
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Going through some family history folders I found a leaflet from Shropshire Archives, the front page has an image from the Loppington directory. In the Noneley section contains a Jones John, farmer, The Shaws.
I have no date, but it is down the road, possible census searching might give some clues to a connection.
I checked the Shropshire Archives website, looking for John Jones, but found this below.
http://search.shropshirehistory.org.uk/collections/getrecord/CCA_XSC_2_5/
Date: 1919
Description: Lot 1: Burlton Farm, 170 acres, 5 bedroom house and farm buildings plus cottage with garden and piggery, tenant Mr Samuel Jones, rent 231 p.a.
Lot2: Burlton Mill Farm, 159 acres, 7 bedroom farmhouse and farm buildings, 2 cottages with garden and piggery, tenant Mr Edwin Jones, rent 235 p.a.
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Going through some family history folders I found a leaflet from Shropshire Archives, the front page has an image from the Loppington directory. In the Noneley section contains a Jones John, farmer, The Shaws.
I have no date, but it is down the road, possible census searching might give some clues to a connection.
I checked the Shropshire Archives website, looking for John Jones, but found this below.
http://search.shropshirehistory.org.uk/collections/getrecord/CCA_XSC_2_5/
Date: 1919
Description: Lot 1: Burlton Farm, 170 acres, 5 bedroom house and farm buildings plus cottage with garden and piggery, tenant Mr Samuel Jones, rent 231 p.a.
Lot2: Burlton Mill Farm, 159 acres, 7 bedroom farmhouse and farm buildings, 2 cottages with garden and piggery, tenant Mr Edwin Jones, rent 235 p.a.
Thanks again, Alberbury. I'll check out the Nonely link when I'm back up and running (I've just moved house and everything is still upside down). Samuel Jones may also be worth tracing further back - I know he wasn't closely related, but you never know whether there's a link further back.
Regards
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Just noticed this thread.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=732580.msg5776742
Electoral Registers on Find my Past. Not sure if Shropshire is covered yet, but only a matter of time.