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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: EdwinReffell on Wednesday 02 January 13 09:24 GMT (UK)
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My father John James REFFELL was an ordinary serviceman, not an officer, and with no medals, who served in the RAF during the Second World War. I believe he was a mechanic .I do not know where he was stationed. Before his voluntary enlisting after the start of the war, he helped his father in the butcher's trade. My brother has asked me how to find our father's RAF service number. I have searched the web and this forum and found no up to date information on this. I would like to know where to find his service number, if it is possible to search online, and what it costs. Thank you for your help.
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Veterans UK is probably a good place to start:
http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html
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My father John James REFFELL was an ordinary serviceman, not an officer, and with no medals, who served in the RAF during the Second World War. I believe he was a mechanic .I do not know where he was stationed. Before his voluntary enlisting after the start of the war, he helped his father in the butcher's trade. My brother has asked me how to find our father's RAF service number. I have searched the web and this forum and found no up to date information on this. I would like to know where to find his service number, if it is possible to search online, and what it costs. Thank you for your help.
Hi Edwin,
No costs involved. 1410599 John James Reffell.
The number is within a block of service numbers (1400001 to 1424800) issued Mar 1941 Penarth, if that ties in with family lore?
Trusting this helps
D.T.D.
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Thank you for your kind help. I have told my brother and am sure he will be most pleased and grateful to you.
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Hi-am in same boat-my late uncle sydney abraham scott served as a a pilot officer in raf -becoming a squadron leader according to my late dad and as a jew had unenviable job of entering belsen with intel in 45.Get service no from forces records website or something on find my past or ancestry.
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Despite advertising suggestions, RAF personnel records post 1920 have not been released to the public domain yet.
You need to apply to RAF Cranwell disclosures for a copy.
Having said that you can trace his commissioned career online through the London Gazette via his promotions and commissioned service number (77838)
eg
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/35151/pages/2517/page.pdf
Regards
Ross
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Hello,
Is it possible to do the opposite search? From service number to a name?
I'm looking for a name attached to 1424863, should be a foreign national in the RAF.
Best regards
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Hello Briggs1700 and welcome to Rootschat ;D
Not sure how the numbering system works and if all numbers were unique at this point (perhaps someone can confirm they were) but this looks promising.
Groundcrew 350 (Belgian) Squadron RAF
1424863 AC1 F.II. A. De Rudder J.A.A
http://www.350sqn.be/groundcrew.html
350 (Belgian) Squadron
http://www.be4046.eu/RAF.htm
Milly
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http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html
How does one navigate from the above link to online view of records ?
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The records are not online for WW2 personnel. You need to send off for them and need to be the next of kin.
See here for more info:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,633488.0.html
RAF Records are kept in a different place although the procedures are the same.
More info here:
http://www.raf.mod.uk/links/contacts.cfm
Personnel Records
Royal Air Force personnel records are held at RAF Cranwell. If service number and details are known, please quote it in the correspondence. The personnel records department will only divulge information to the person to whom it refers or, if he or she has died, to his or her immediate next of kin. Anyone else must obtain written permission from the person about whom they are enquiring, or from his or her next of kin, before any information will be given to them.
A charge of £30.00 will be made for any information they provide; If cheques are submitted with queries, they should be made payable to 'HMG Sub-Account 3627'. This applies to personnel records only. The only people exempt from charge are the person to whom the records refer to or their widow or widower.
The address is:
RAF Disclosures section
Room 221b, Trenchard Hall
RAF Cranwell
Sleaford
Lincs NG34 8HB
Milly
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millymcb, it was the first post by Edwin Reffell, Jan. 13 and then a reply next day
My father John James REFFELL was an ordinary serviceman, not an officer, and with no medals, who served in the RAF during the Second World War. I believe he was a mechanic .I do not know where he was stationed. Before his voluntary enlisting after the start of the war, he helped his father in the butcher's trade. My brother has asked me how to find our father's RAF service number. I have searched the web and this forum and found no up to date information on this. I would like to know where to find his service number, if it is possible to search online, and what it costs. Thank you for your help.
Hi Edwin,
No costs involved. 1410599 John James Reffell.
The number is within a block of service numbers (1400001 to 1424800) issued Mar 1941 Penarth, if that ties in with family lore?
Trusting this helps
D.T.D.
D.T.D. managed an almost instant reply ?, maybe he has access to records !!
bodger
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D.T.D. managed an almost instant reply ?, maybe he has access to records !!
bodger
From the number of PMs I received about this thread I think I should reply here.
We all have free access to the records I used to locate Airman Refell's service number.
They are located online at Kew in the AIR78 section. Scans of index cards with full names and service numbers, 6 per page of all airmen and women who enlisted between 1918-1975.
A few notes. These are huge pdf files. Almost half a gigabyte for one section of one letter of the alphabet. Not all are fully legible and I found some out of order.
For those looking to trace airwomen by their maiden names you will note some cross-indexing where the maiden name will be crossed out and married name inserted or visa versa.
Trusting this answers those who had questions.
Regards,
DTD
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DTD, thank you for the explanation, it would appear if you have a slow connection, it may be cheaper to spend the £30.00. bodger
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The two are not really related, bodger.
All you will find in the AIR78 option I explained are a) name b) service number. Nothing more
There is nothing like the detail you will get from a person's service record. No promotions, postings, awards etc.
Regards,
DTD
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I tried looking for my father's record. (Kenneth Arthur Garrad)
And I found it - but the print is out-of-focus, and hard to read!
Looks like JC80601?
as far as I know, Dad did his 2 years conscription after WW2.
But his card is marked "Militia"?
Can someone please explain? Thanks!
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Hi
3080601
His ATC membership will have led to him being listed on the Militia/Militiamen ledgers.
The actual service number block he enlisted under was:
3075001 to 3099999 Commenced Nov-45 RAF: Padgate. ex ATC. Last issue 3093490.
So the family history of post war enlistment is correct but what he did during the period 1939 to 1945 marked down as liable for conscription at a later date.
For more on Militiamen please see my posts on this thread
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?13206-RAF-Manpower-and-Deferred-Service
Regards
Ross
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Thanks for that!
I know he was a Runner. Didn't know he was ATC, but can't say I am surprised.
Portishead, where he lived and I grew up, had 2 power stations, and a harbour, and Avonmouth was just a few miles away.
So a target for bombing raids.
He served in Singapore, apparently at Changi.
We swapped a few stories of Singapore after I paid a visit there around 2000!
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Hi guys
There seems to be some fantastic input through this forum and brilliant help around from those in the know, or with the right gen!
I'm just starting a research project for a media output on my grandfather. We know very little unfortunately of his service during WWII, as, being like many others who served at the time he spoke very little about his efforts.
The little I do know after quite a bit of searching, is his service number, rank and where he was discharged which are as follows;
Ser No: 942476
Rank: Warrant Officer
Discharge location: RAF Hednesford, staffs
He was a born and bred Yorkshire chap, we believe he was RAFVR, and think he was on a Yorkshire based sqn. He was shot down and a POW for four years, and the only thing he referenced to that was having spent some time with Douglas Bader, leading me to think he was either in Stalag Luft III or Colditz? But again, this is purely guess work.
If anyone can help/contribute with anything they may know or think would be a good avenue to go down I would be most appreciative!
Very best wishes,
Reece
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Oh you do know how to make things difficult to start.
His name would have been a help
S Dawson from my on line PoW list
http://www.rafcommands.com/Ross/Air%20Force%20PoWs/RAF%20POWs%20Query%20D_1.html
Stalag Luft 6 on the 1944/45 lists
Sydney Dawson from AIR 78/44 Class F Reserve so likely pre War service.
Personal Number is from batch issued at Cardington Sept 39 to April 40
Regards
Ross
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My apologies! How silly of me, yes his name is Sydney Dawson!
Thank you for this, brilliantly helpful! :)
Reece
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Worth downloading the Operations Record Book of No.426 Squadron from the National Archives web site for the month of Oct 1943.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=air+27%2F1841%2F18
AIR 27/1841/18
Have a look at Lancaster DS717 on the night 18/19th Oct. (Place was Aldeburgh, Suffolk)
May be a start for your research on the loaned crew.
The best place is to apply for his service record from RAF Disclosure at RAF Cranwell - will save quite a bit of second guessing.
Regards
Ross
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Again, thank you!
Pardon my ignorance, but 426 was RCAF, being RAFVR from Britain, would he have been detached to them? If so, I didn't realise RAF personnel could be seconded to other nationality sqns.
He did mention vaguely, that he flew in wellingtons.
I think RAF Cranwell is most definitely my next port of call, but your help so far is great!
Reece
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Although RCAF squadrons were funded by the Canadian Government and mostly staffed by RCAF personnel they were not exclusively so.
There was little or no RCAF training for Flight Engineers so when they received the 4 engine aircraft and needed F/E this was provided by RAFVR men. Other trades also had a smattering of RAF personnel.
I had a quick look in my sea losses for Dawson and a Yorkshire aerodrome to see if any thing came up as a first pass solution and DS717 came up.
I suggested it as a possible starter but my reservation is that if it is Sydney it suggests a PoW date later than Winter 1943 which does not correspond to the family history of PoW for 4 years.
Self help is the way to be sure with the service record only really being accessible by the family.
Having said that a short cut may be possible if he filled in a PoW Liberation Questionnaire - not all did - and this would be open to personal inspection at The National Archives.
Regards
Ross
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Let me save you some time here, Reece.
The "S. Dawson" on DS717 was P/O 106725 Stanley Dawson, a Canadian from Winnipeg, by way of Lancashire, in the RAF.
He and the entire crew of P/O Hansen RCAF (same crew who went into the drink the previous October were lost on Lancaster DS767 (408 Sqn) on ops to Braunschweig on 14-15 January, 1944.
DTD
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Hi - I just bought a B-type flight helmet in an auction here in Sweden, and inside it is written 771048 Kitchen E E. I found this link to the gazette, and became more curious.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35525/page/1653/data.pdf
I myself is not a relative to this gentleman, but I became curious if it is possible to find out any more. Is the next step to ask for service records through the RAF ? or can anything else be found out ?
Thanks
William
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Using the Gazette further and his commissioned service number of 116202 will give all his promotions in rank and that he was awarded the DFC while at No.10 Squadron.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/36089/supplement/3157/data.pdf
The Operations Record Book of No.10 Squadron are available for download in monthly batches from The National Archives for a small fee.
This will give his operational flights while posted to No.10 Squadron and possibly an indication of where he was posted in from/to.
As he is not listed under the Commonwealth War Graves Commission he survived the war and so you will only be able to obtain a copy of his service record from MoD if he has been deceased for 25 years and you can show this from a death certificate or another approved document.
Best start with No.10 Sqn records and the London Gazette/Air Force List for your initial research.
Ross
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A citation is available in Flight magazine:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1943/1943%20-%202116.html
There's an E E Kitchen DFC involved in a crash with 78 Squadron in Sept 43. Can't confirm if this the same guy as I don't have Maton's Honor the Air Forces to hand at the moment so can't check if there was more than one E E Kitchen with a DFC.
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Thanks all for the feedback, this is great stuff. All I know is that the man I bought the helmet from, got it from his father who in his turn got it from a Britt in the 50:s or 60:s in the UK, while he was there buying farm equipment or something like that (retail, or re-seller) It might even have been E E Kitchen, as he survived the war.
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Hi I am trying to also trace a relatives service number
Flight Sergent (last rank I can find) Wilfred Evans
Served with Xv Sqn between Aug and Nov 1944
if anyone can help me I would be most appreciative
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its ok chaps found it on his daughters birth cert :)
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http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html
How does one navigate from the above link to online view of records ?
You can't, post 1920 records are not on line. Read all the information in the link and you will see how to apply for them, and the cost.
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T5tart you might like to start by contacting the following http://www.xvsqnassociation.co.uk/ and http://www.mildenhallregister.stirlingpilot.org.uk/
Regards
Dee :)
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I have a silver RAF identification bracelet that I found in 1964 whilst scuba diving under Eton bridge in the river Thames at Windsor.
It would be nice to return it to somebody in the family. On the bracelet is: " 1315545 Derek V Buxton "
I've done a little research and come up with November 1940 in Oxford for that service number.
Is there any way to get more information ? I'd be grateful for any help.
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1315545 Derek V Buxton
His full name is/was Derek Vincent Charlton Buxton (from AIR 78 file). He survived the war, having been promoted to Pilot Officer in June 1944 (his commissioned number is 165568). Flight Lieutenant in 1949. Still in the RAF in 1956 (all details from the London Gazette).
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From the 1956 Air Force List:
Born 13/8/1922
First Commissioned 16/6/1944
Retired 31/3/1962
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Spikey68. Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. Regards, Dave.
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Hey guys,
Wondering if anyone could help me find some information about my Grandad? He was a Lancaster bomber pilot during WWII...
I've printed off the documents from here - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records and we will send them off at some point, but just wanted to see if anyone can find anything listed online first?
The only thing I have found so far is from a "Supplement to the London Gazette"
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/37108/supplement/2842/data.pdf
"5th Apr. 1945-"
"1589149 William Leslie MUMFORD (197188)."
Not really sure what that means, but I'm assuming one of those numbers is his service number?
Sadly he passed away in July.
Many thanks, Dan Mumford!
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Both are his number.
When he enrolled he was given an Other Ranks (OR) Service Number. This was maintained as he progressed to NCO ranks of Sgt and then Flight Sgt
When appointed to Commission a paper exercise took place. He was discharged under his OR service conditions and agreement and then immediately joined as a Commissioned Officer with a new Personal Number.
The Gazette entry is the legal notification of his OR discharge and Commission gradation date for seniority along with number change,
Ross
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Hullo, my father Alan James Campbell was in the RAF as an ordinary serviceman. I know he was in Ceylon in a photographic section. Ive got his medals and want to have them mounted with the details of his service. But to get his service details, it appears you need his service number. How do I get this? Many thanks is anticipation of any assistance. Best, Steve
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Hullo, my father Alan James Campbell was in the RAF as an ordinary serviceman. I know he was in Ceylon in a photographic section. Ive got his medals and want to have them mounted with the details of his service. But to get his service details, it appears you need his service number. How do I get this? Many thanks is anticipation of any assistance. Best, Steve
If you know his date of birth, they probably do not also need his service number.
Have you still got the box and the piece of paper which his medals were in, because his number may be on the award document.
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Thanks for the reply. Im trying to get his number via the AIR78 pdfs, but slow connection. Ive got the box that his medals came in, but there's nothing with his number on it. Best, Steve
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I've successfully applied for records, and didn't have a service number ;D
It's not a mandatory field!
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Thank you. I'll try to find the number via AIR78, but am heartened that you were successful withiut it. Best Steve
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Unless his service is post war AIR78 will give two possible numbers and family knowledge will not exactly resolve.
A J Campbell (no full first names) 173428 is a wartime entry who enrolled at a local Combined Recruiting Centre. The entry was open Sept 1941 to war end.
Alan James Campbell 3032185 (card marked Militia) was also a wartime entry for ex ATC cadets and open for entry from May 1943 to war end.
ATC membership does not mean that he could only be 3032185 because if he was ex ATC and joined before May 1943 he would have been 173428.
There is one final entry for Alan James - 3522512 a regular entry at Cardington circa March 1956 also ex ATC.
Apply with known details including DoB and let disclosures pull the correct service record.
Ross
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Thank you so much. I'll ask my mother when he joined up. Was in WW2 so won't be the last one. Best. Steve.
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I have a letter dated 1988 from my Uncle George to my Uncle Bill mentioning Squadrons in RAF WW2 and postings. My Cousin is keen to see her Father's Service Record but we don't have his Service No.
All we know of him is :-
William Brown born 18/06/1921 lived at Annick Bank, Perceton Ayrshire as Farm Labourer His Father was Hugh Brown.
Letter mentions Postings to Merston and Tangmere and Squadrons 2748 2751 2825 2865 2866 Halton Camp
He Married Margaret Irene Chapman on 3rd July 1943 at St Philip's Church, Litherland Liverpool
Having been introduced to her during leave in the War by my Uncle George Chapman
Bill Passed away 05/06/1988
A plastic badge of HMS Glasgow was in the letter, but we don't why or the connection ?
If we apply on the application form with such a common surname, will they able to trace his records still ?
Any other info appreciated.
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Yes,
Advise all you know about birth place/date and marriage as these will all help to confirm the record they find is correct.
You will need to supply a copy of his death certificate as it's just on the edge of the 25 year rule - best to be safe.
The squadrons listed are all RAF Regiment so ground defence for aerodromes.
Ross
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I would like to know more about my father's service in the RAF. His name was Robert Joseph McKeown and he was born in 1918 in Northern Ireland. He was already in the RAF when he married my mother in June 1939 and I believe that he may have been stationed at RAF Henlow at that time.
I know he was moved all over the Middle East and to Singapore before leaving in, I think, in 1946.
How do I find out what his Service Number was?
Thanks.
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You do not need his service number to apply to the MOD for his service record
...but...
look to see if it is on the marriage cert, if not look it up in AIR78 at The National Archives.
Just be careful when you use one you have looked up in AIR78 there may be several men wiith the same name serving between 1918 and the 1970s that AIR78 covers.
Ross
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My father and mother marred in 1943. He Army, she WAAF. Both have their name, rank and number on the marriage certificate. Did this always happen? I do not know.
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It all depends on what information they provided at the time, some people included their numbers, others didn't. I have examples of both.
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I have a letter dated 1988 from my Uncle George to my Uncle Bill mentioning Squadrons in RAF WW2 and postings. My Cousin is keen to see her Father's Service Record but we don't have his Service No.
All we know of him is :-
William Brown born 18/06/1921 lived at Annick Bank, Perceton Ayrshire as Farm Labourer His Father was Hugh Brown.
If we apply on the application form with such a common surname, will they able to trace his records still ?
Any other info appreciated.
My wife applied for her father's RAF records. They replied there were too many John Robinson to enable his records to be identified. Two years later a relative found his service number and my wife applied successfully. Nonetheless, you should apply and see what happens.
Imber
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I have now looked on the National Archive site and found what I think is his Service Number - the slip with the name and number was stamped with an F enclosed in a circle, what does that signify?
Don't worry if it is something awful.
Thanks.
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Nothing awful. Class F Reserve.
http://www.rafcommands.com/reference/air-78-and-finding-raf-other-ranks-service-number/
DTD
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Thank you, I'm grateful for that - it also confirms that I have the right number.
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Hello,
Wondering if anybody can help or point me in the right direction,
I recently lost my grandfather a few days ago and wanted to use his service number in a memorial,
Only thing is I only know the last (or the first) four numbers of his service number,
I know I can apply to obtain service records from .gov but these require a full service number which I don’t have..
His name was Hubert John Turner, born August 14th 1936. I know he wasn’t deployed anywhere - one of those conversations I always wish I had asked more about his RAF life, I know he was a serviceman based in Norfolk for a time but did not work in combat.
If any body knows how to find a service number it would mean the world. The digits I have are ‘4146’ I don’t know if these are the beginning or end of the number,
Thanks
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Hello,
Wondering if anybody can help or point me in the right direction,
I recently lost my grandfather a few days ago and wanted to use his service number in a memorial,
Only thing is I only know the last (or the first) four numbers of his service number,
I know I can apply to obtain service records from .gov but these require a full service number which I don’t have..
His name was Hubert John Turner, born August 14th 1936. I know he wasn’t deployed anywhere - one of those conversations I always wish I had asked more about his RAF life, I know he was a serviceman based in Norfolk for a time but did not work in combat.
If any body knows how to find a service number it would mean the world. The digits I have are ‘4146’ I don’t know if these are the beginning or end of the number,
Thanks
You have your answer on the thread you started earlier:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=789595.msg6453130#msg6453130
:)
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Hello, i'm hoping someone can point me in the correct direction. I am looking for my late father-in-law's RAF service record from WWII. Alexander Cameron Monteith, Flight Engineer w a rank of Staff Sergeant (i think). I'm guessing he joined in 1943 when he was 18 (he was born in 1925; he died on 20th June 2010). The only information that i have (photographs) are that he was based in Egypt in 1945/6, probably at Deversoir Air Base (photo of inter squadron football team but i can't identify which squadron). I have done a lot of basic searching and have found no record of him at all on any database - weird. Do i need a service number? (I don't have it). I'm kicking myself for not asking all these questions when he was still alive - i got lots of other info but like so many others, he was reluctant to talk about the war.
Thank you!
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Welcome to Rootschat. :)
His record will be with the MOD; details of how to apply:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=651361.0
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Thank you!
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Service number is not essential and if his wife is still alive she can apply for free.
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Sadly not, my MiL died a year later. Shall get my husband to do it!
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Staff Sergeant rank does not exist in the RAF.
Suggest the rank was Sergeant or Flight Sergeant :)
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Hmm, thank you - i'm clearly not well informed on matters relating to military ranks!
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It's easy for me - 5 years WRAF and my OH was in RAF for almost 25 yrs. When you apply at least you will have his trade and two possible ranks that are correct RAF ranks for flight engineers. :)
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Hi thankyou for letting me join .
Could any member please give me a date of joining for number
1425026 also if possible a name please.
Thankyou
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Hi thankyou for letting me join .
Could any member please give me a date of joining for number
1425026 also if possible a name please.
Thankyou
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Hi there
I am currently looking into my late grandfather, Stanley Childs, RAF history. We know very little of his service as, being like many others who served in the war, he spoke very little about his time served. What I do know is in September 1939 he was in Hednesford, Staffordshire, and during the war he was stationed in Lyttelton, South Africa, Egypt and Scandinavia. It is believed he was a flight engineer but not 100% sure of this.
I have tried searching for his service number and have found two possibilities:
1213370
1427481.
I was wondering if anyone has any information they could share? It would be greatly appreciated. :)
Thanking you in advance
Monique
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Hi,
Welcome to Rootschat. :)
You might find this link useful:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
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Thank you :D