RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: waynus james on Saturday 05 January 13 18:31 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find a newspaper article from the 1950s (presumably). The subject is the removal of the gypsies from Belvedere Marsh following the flood in 1953. My great great grannie, Naomi Brazil (known as Crackernuts) was interviewed at Ruxley Pit nr Sidcup because the families were not being allowed back on to the Marsh. There was a picture of her leaning over a wagon door. The article I believe was entitled Queen of the Gypsies. Naomi was married to Frank Lee then to Davey Hall - her children were Jack Fairplay, Flo, Britty, Nelson, Storky, Charlotte, Naomi, Daisy, and Jimmy. I have been researching local papers but have not had any luck tracing this photo. If anyone can remember this or what newspaper it was in or has a copy of the article or photo (or any photos of Naomi Brazil), please get in touch.
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I would try Bexleyheath Library, they have the archives there with a lot on the marsh and also the local newspaper archives.
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Thanks for this but have already tried them with no success.
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Take a read of this:
http://romanygenes2.webeden.co.uk/#/belvedere-marsh/4527736513
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Thanks for this - very useful website. Any other help would be appreciated.
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Lots of Brazil's on Facebook from that area. My great great granny was Matilda Brazil, also used the name Elliott.
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Thanks for this response. I am having a major problem finding any records/information about Naomi Brazil but yes it is true that there are many Brazils in the area and in my family. Naomi is on my father's side and my great great grandmother on my mother's side was Sarah Ann Brazil who married Samuel Jones. They had a daughter called Matilda. Sarah Ann's mother was Ann Elliott - could there be a connection??? The family lived in the Sussex area. Any information would be gratefully received.
Best wishes
Waynus
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Ohh, my Matilda's mum was Ann Elliott!!! We are linked, they were all from Sussex. The Elliott's, Ransleys, and Roberts families all married in. ;D I have your Sarah in my family tree. What do you want to know?
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Thank you very much for getting back to me. I did have a really strong feeling that this was the same family as soon as I heard the name Elliott!! From our research we have been unable to find Ann with a daughter Matilda - she did have a granddaughter Matilda whose parents are Sarah Ann (Brazil) and Samuel Jones. We have found Ann had a daughter Mary - could this be Matilda as we know names were not always accurately recorded. Do you have a birth date for Matilda so that we can try to accurately place her.
Thanks so much for your help - this is really appreciated.
Best Wishes
Waynus
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My Matilda's mum Ann Elliott had Matilda out of wedlock. Ann then married into the Brazil family. On one census, a Mary Jane Brazil was staying with Matilda and husband in their wagon. But Ive never seen Matilda transcribed as Mary. She died of pneumonia in the early 1880s and her husband Samson Roberts remarried to Priscilla Beeney (who herself was widdowed, she was born a Ripley). I struggled with Matilda for years until a cousin 'found' her mum at Sussex records office.
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Thank you very much for this. It seems all connections are leading to me!!!! because my great-grandmother on my mother's side was also a Beaney!! This was a large family and they all came from Northiam in Sussex and a lot married Ripleys and there are numerous Priscillas in both families.
This will all need looking into further - getting quite exciting.
Best wishes
Waynus
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I'll inbox you my email address. I have Roberts, Clark's, Ransley's, Elliotts, Brazil's, Ripley's, Beeney's, Sharwood's, Egertons, Bexell's (all Sussex and Kent with a Roberts line who went up to South Wales), and Smiths from Headington.
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I am trying to find a newspaper article from the 1950s (presumably). The subject is the removal of the gypsies from Belvedere Marsh following the flood in 1953. My great great grannie, Naomi Brazil (known as Crackernuts) was interviewed at Ruxley Pit nr Sidcup because the families were not being allowed back on to the Marsh. There was a picture of her leaning over a wagon door. The article I believe was entitled Queen of the Gypsies. Naomi was married to Frank Lee then to Davey Hall - her children were Jack Fairplay, Flo, Britty, Nelson, Storky, Charlotte, Naomi, Daisy, and Jimmy. I have been researching local papers but have not had any luck tracing this photo. If anyone can remember this or what newspaper it was in or has a copy of the article or photo (or any photos of Naomi Brazil), please get in touch.
Can't help with you finding newspaper articles, but my granny was naomi Brazil before marriage, obviously not the same one!! But her father was Ben Brazil was known as storky!! He died around 23 year ago my granny died 2 years ago, I know nothing before my great grandparents.
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Sorry for the delay in coming back to you.
The Naomi Brazil you speak of who is your granny is my father's cousin - we know her as Signal's Omie. Her father Storky is my grandfather's brother (my grandfather is Jack Fairplay) and Storky's wife Ada's mother is also my grandfather's sister on the Eastwood side. The Naomi Brazil I am speaking about is Storky's mother and I have been told by Benny and Tilly's girls that your Granny Omie's brother George does have a photo of her - she was known as Cracker Nuts. George is reluctant to let anyone look at these photos in case they get lost (don't blame him for this) but you never know, he may let you see these. If so, and if you can get a copy, please let me have one (I will be eternally grateful). p.s. if there is anymore information you would like regarding this side of the family, please let me know.
Best wishes
Waynus
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Sorry for the delay in coming back to you.
The Naomi Brazil you speak of who is your granny is my father's cousin - we know her as Signal's Omie. Her father Storky is my grandfather's brother (my grandfather is Jack Fairplay) and Storky's wife Ada's mother is also my grandfather's sister on the Eastwood side. The Naomi Brazil I am speaking about is Storky's mother and I have been told by Benny and Tilly's girls that your Granny Omie's brother George does have a photo of her - she was known as Cracker Nuts. George is reluctant to let anyone look at these photos in case they get lost (don't blame him for this) but you never know, he may let you see these. If so, and if you can get a copy, please let me have one (I will be eternally grateful). p.s. if there is anymore information you would like regarding this side of the family, please let me know.
Best wishes
Waynus
thanks for getting back to me. Sounds about right, Uncle George and the photos!! When I see him next I will ask him about them, I see if he show me and let me take a picture with my fone. As I said before I know not very much, my father told me that grandfather storky was Hall. I don't understand how they got different last names. I knew granny Ada was Eastwood, Any information you have on them and there grandparents and siblings would be greatly received.
Thanks
Charlotte
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hallo charlotte thanks for coming back to me . yes George might let you have a look and you can take a photo with your phone . yes the mix up with your grandfathers name being hall is that old granny crackernuts was married twice she had my grandfather frank lee first and had 8 children with him and then she your grandfather davie hall and had your grandfather ben with him and put him in her name all so most of the children was in her name because of the war . omie brazils children were jimmy nelson jack storky daisy floie charlotte omie britty. as for your granny ada she was a lee but took the name breeze it was her mother who was the eastwood and her parents was john eastwood and ada not sure of her last name their children were johnny walter benny tommy billy that's my grandfather better known as old diddles George esther prissy polly hope this helps you a bit. good luck with George and the photos best wishes waynus
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hallo charlotte thanks for coming back to me . yes George might let you have a look and you can take a photo with your phone . yes the mix up with your grandfathers name being hall is that old granny crackernuts was married twice she had my grandfather frank lee first and had 8 children with him and then she your grandfather davie hall and had your grandfather ben with him and put him in her name all so most of the children was in her name because of the war . omie brazils children were jimmy nelson jack storky daisy floie charlotte omie britty. as for your granny ada she was a lee but took the name breeze it was her mother who was the eastwood and her parents was john eastwood and ada not sure of her last name their children were johnny walter benny tommy billy that's my grandfather better known as old diddles George esther prissy polly hope this helps you a bit. good luck with George and the photos best wishes waynus
thank you, do you know who cracker nuts parents were?
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Hi Charlotte
Cracker Nut's father was Walter Brazil (sometimes known as Walter Barton) and her mother was Florence (Flo) Lee. She was one of 6 children (that are known) - her brothers and sisters were Charlotte, Lovie, Jack, Nelson and Jimmy. They came from the Sussex area and they lived in Devil's Dyke near Brighton. This is all that I know about her - have never found any trace of Naomi Brazil on any of the census records.
Best wishes
Waynus
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Hi Charlotte
Cracker Nut's father was Walter Brazil (sometimes known as Walter Barton) and her mother was Florence (Flo) Lee. She was one of 6 children (that are known) - her brothers and sisters were Charlotte, Lovie, Jack, Nelson and Jimmy. They came from the Sussex area and they lived in Devil's Dyke near Brighton. This is all that I know about her - have never found any trace of Naomi Brazil on any of the census records.
Best wishes
Waynus
so from what you have told me there is no way of tracing back any further than Walter brazil and Flo? Such a shame, have you made a family tree? How hard has it been?
Thank you for all the information.
Best wishes charlotte
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Hi Charlotte
Sorry for the delay in coming back to you but have been away.
I have not started a family tree as it will probably just get too complicated. Are you going to start one?? Have you had any luck with George or any of the photos??
Best wishes and keep in touch
Waynus
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Hi All
Just come back on the site after a break - wondered if anyone else has had any thoughts about where I can go for this photo or any connections with the Brazil family.
Look forward to hearing from you if you can help.
Waynus James
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As you dont want to start a family tree, it makes it harder for people to contact you. If you start a free tree on Genes Reunited (for example) people can see your ancestors and contact you.... also join RTFHS, google it.
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Hi , I was interested when I saw your post, my granny was a Eastwood, , my greatgrandad was Tommy Eastwood. I would to here any feed bk . Thanks draper
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Hello Draper. Nice to hear from you. I am not sure what Tom Eastwood you are looking for or what he is to do with Naomi Brazil. Naomi is on my Dad's side but my mum is an Eastwood too and I do have a great uncle Tom who married an Amy Shoebridge not sure if this is the same one. Best wishes Waynus
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Hi I'm new to roots.... my great grandad Tom Eastwood has sadley passed many years ago my nan was golia Eastwood . niomi wrote a on her wall she's related to draper family........ best wishes draper
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hallo draper thanks for getting back so soon but i think we are on diffrent famleys here however i al so have a gate aurnt rose james hoo marrid a ben eastwood thay had a dalter golia eastwood may be connected best wishes waynus
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Hi , thanks for response, my nan had a 1st cousin Ben Eastwood, I'm also aware of a golia Eastwood in Surrey who's related to me.....the eastwoods are a very large family..........best wishes draper