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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: fionajka on Saturday 19 January 13 03:42 GMT (UK)
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Hello ALL,
Back in 2008 I initially queried about this group of names...since then I have found further information but still very little in some respects.
I was wanting to know if anyone could possibly find a marriage for Mary TODD and John Eckersley BINNS as I haven't been able to - they had a child in 1934 in Rochdale but I'm not sure that they ever married.
John did have a wife in 1920, Elizabeth MARLAND but I'm not sure if she died or not prior to him hooking up with MAry but that's on my list of things to find out.
Mary then went on to marry James Edward WOLSTENHOLME in 1945.
I have each of their death information but no issue for the latter couple and would like some direction if possible. I wondered if anyone had access to the Rochdale County Borough Directory to see if John and Mary ever lived together before or after 1934 when their child was born and prior to his death in 1941?
As for Mary TODD, well, she is as elusive as ever. Born 1903, Rochdale. 3 possibilities in the 1911 census but can't find a way to connect her to any of them to verify. Would her parents name be on her marriage certificate in 1945?
Thank you, Fiona
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The GRO certificate ordering site here http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
says that
*The details contained on a full birth certificate include:
Name, date and place of birth.
Father's name (if given at time of registration), place of birth and occupation.
Mother's name, place of birth, maiden surname and, after 1984, occupation.
(Registrations made before 1969 do not include details of the parents' place of birth and mother's occupation.)
*The details contained on a marriage certificate include:
Date and place of marriage.
Name, age and marital status/condition of man and woman.
Occupation and usual address.
Name and occupation of each party's father.
Names of the witnesses.
Name of the person who solemnised the marriage.
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Hi
There was a Binns child with mmn Todd born in 1937 Wardleworth, Rochdale.
Heather
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If you get her marriage certificate, it should have her father's name. If she did marry John Binns, she would be Mary Binns and not Mary Todd when she remarried.
Heather
added: Marriage jan-feb-mar 1945
Mary Todd and James E Wolstenholme
Rochdale
Lancashire
Vol 8e
page 76
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I assume one of the death certificates you have is for John Binns
Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1941
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
BINNS John Eckersley 45 Wardleworth Rochdale W/84/13
who notified his death
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Hi Heather,
The child I have and is correct. I agree with you in regards to the idea that she would have been Mary BINNS instead of TODD when marrying Edward WOLSTENHOLME, so that clarifies things for me - just like to know whether John's wife Elizabeth MARLAND was still alive at that stage or not....
As for the death cert for John and his notification of death...I don't have the actual cert but the burial info from Rochdale cemetery. Thanks for the reference though as I didn't know that he had died in Wardleworth...which is where his son was born in 1934, so it makes me wonder if they lived together prior to his death or not?
Fiona
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I was wanting to know if anyone could possibly find a marriage for Mary TODD and John Eckersley BINNS as I haven't been able to - they had a child in 1934 in Rochdale but I'm not sure that they ever married.
Are the details for the child born in 1934 June 1/4 Rochdale vol 8e page 45? If so the birth for baby B was registered with the last name Todd, mother's maiden name Todd which would suggest that Mary and John Binns were not married.
I have been looking for a death for Elizabeth H Binns nee Marland and can't see one so I looked for a marriage and there are two. Both in the Haslingden reg district.
Elizabeth H Binns to Handel Davies
Jun 1/4 1932, Haslingden, Lancashire, 8e/225
Joseph Waller to Elizabeth H Davies Or Binns
Mar 1946 1/4 Haslingden, Lancashire 8e/227
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This looks like Handel Davies birth
March 1/4 1910 Bury vol 8c page 530
and death reg
Date of Registration - Mar 1/4 1994 Bury
Handel Davies
Birth date - 12 Dec 1909
Age at Death - 84
So he didn't die leaving Elizabeth H free to marry. Divorced? But nothing to say this is your Elizabeth nee Marland who did marry with the middle initial H.
A second marriage for Handel?
Handel Davies to Ethel Walton
Mar 1/4 1946, Bury, Lancashire, vol - 8c page - 897
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The child (*), 1934, Wardleworth.
As for those marriages,
Elizabeth H Binns to Handel Davies
Jun 1/4 1932, Haslingden, Lancashire, 8e/225
Joseph Waller to Elizabeth H Davies Or Binns
Mar 1946 1/4 Haslingden, Lancashire 8e/227
I too found them yesterday but not sure if this is the Elizabeth Hannah MARLAND but another.... as I had presumed that it listed marriage 1 and marriage 2 of the same Elizabeth H BINNS - so none the clearer yet.
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perhaps to help confirm from lancashirebmd.org.uk
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the year 1920
BINNS, John Eckersley MARLAND, Elizabeth Hannah: Rochdale, St Clements Ref: CE16/5/391
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years 1932
BINNS, Elizabeth Hannah DAVIES, Handel: Hyndburn Register Office or Registrar Attended Ref: RM/153/157
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the year 1946
WALLER, Joseph BINNS or DAVIES, Elizabeth Hannah Hyndburn Register Office or Registrar Attended Ref: RM/171/67
was the child in 1934 registered with the mmn as Jodd rather than Todd?
But:
John Eckersley was still alive in 1834
the child in 1934 was registered in the name Binns and the marriage to Handel Davies was 1932 so your Elizabeth would have been Davies in 1934
in 1932 the marriage does not say Elizabeth Binns or Marland which I would have expected
which suggests they are 2 different Elizabeths
?????
Births Dec 1909 Binns, Elizabeth Hannah: Bolton 8c 474
Births Jun 1894 Marland, Elizabeth Hannah: Rochdale 8e 60
there are also other Elizabeth Hannah Binns registered before 1909 in the Rochdale area as well
EDIT sorry ignore the bit about the child being Binns not Davies in 1934 - as of course you think the child was Mary's not Elizabeth's
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there are 2 Biins children born 1928 & 1929 wih mmn Marland so presumably Elizabeth was at least still with John then
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Yep, I think there are two Elizabeth Hannah's. One nee MARLAND and one nee BINNS
MARLAND married John Eckerlsey BINNS in 1920 so that marriage reference is correct. The other marriage references are also correct but in regards to another Elizabeth Hannah BINNS.
Bernard BINNS was born to John Eckersley BINNS and Mary TODD in 1934 as I have his birth certificate. SO the child born on 1937 with surname TODD I don't feel belongs to this couple.
Did Elizabeth Hannah BINNS nee MARLAND die prior to 1934? not that I can see yet, did she and John divorce...don't know that either. John did die in 1941and hopefully a death certificate will clarify the informant - it may well be Mary TODD at that stage.
As for out Mary TODD....I'm still struggling to verify which one she is on the 1911 census so without a marriage cert to be certain I think she will remain elusive
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Lanscann can you please clarify the two BINNS children that you found mmn MARLAND?
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from freebmd
Births Dec 1928 (*)
Births Dec 1929 (*)
please can you confirm that the birth certificate for Bernard states John's full name and Mary Binns FORMERLY Todd (not Jodd as in the birth reg index)
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Thanks for those and yes I can confirm that Bernard's birth certificate states John Eckersley BINNS full name as father but Mary TODD (not Binnns) as mother both living at 4 Ogden Street, Rochdale in 1934
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I think that confirms that John & Mary were not married otherwise she would have been Mary Binns
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Hi
Mary Todd /John Eckersley Binns were not married they had two sons Bernard 1934 \& John (My Farther )1937. but took his surname she did marry James Edward Wolstenholme
Mary died some time ago, Bernard emigrated to Australia had four children but he sadly died in his thirtys I think
John Binns passed away in March this year 2017 he also had four children and was married to my Mother Veronica .mary did not attend there wedding Not sure why!
Mary had a sister Harriet we only met once or twice she passed away about 8 yrs ago
Im in the process of trying to piece the puzzle together but information is a tad vague
Mike Edward Binns
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Hi Mike,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
You are my brothers and sisters cousin. I will need to send a personal message on here to explain how it all fits together
Fiona
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Hi Fiona
Thanks for the reply Hi Mike,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
You are my brothers and sisters cousin. I will need to send a personal message on here to explain how it all fits together
Fiona
how do contact each other by this site or email..Mike
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Mike if you hover your mouse over the name of the person you want to write to (on the left hand side of the screen where their message is) and click on it a small menu will give you options. One of them is 'Send PM' I think which is a Personal Message. Simply write your message and click on Post at he bottom of the screen.
If you want to see any replies to messages go to the very top of the screen near your name (on the left) are two options - [Unread posts] and [New Replies], click on New Replies.
Give those a go and if you're still having trouble let me know.
Fiona