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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: sccond on Monday 21 January 13 02:55 GMT (UK)
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Hi - This is my first post here! I have been trying to sort out my Bentley family in Lancashire. I believe now that they may have come from Yorkshire. Specifically I am looking for children of John & Mary (I know!) Bentley. John was b abt 1775 and Mary abt 1776. I have found the following possible children for them. All in Heptonstall, St. Thomas.
I should add that I am pretty sure that William and Richard are correct.
Samuel, 9 Apl 1795, Highgate
Joshua, 1799, Highgate
Mary, Nov 6 1800, Hightgate
William, 29 Aug 1806, Stonewood
Betty, 11 Sept 1808, Stonewood
Richard, 9 Jun 1811, Stonewood
Martha, 7 Jun 1813, CastleClough, Stanfield
George, 15 May, 1815, Newhill, scotland, Spotland
As I don't have a marriage date, I don't know what the date of the first child should be. Would ayone have any suggestions on how to find the marriage?
Just wondering if this all makes sense.
Thanks so much for any help, Lisa
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Hi,
There is a marriage recorded Heptonstall, St Thomas, 2nd November 1794 between John Bentley and Mary Dewhurst of Heptonstall, both made their mark.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Thanks so much. I'll have to see if I can find it and look into it. You never know...
Cheers, Lisa
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Hi Lisa,
Family Search have the following children Baptised/Christened at St Thomas, Heptonstall to a John and Mary Bentley.
Samuel 9/4/1795
Joshua 20/4/1799
Mary 16/11/1800
William 29/8/1806
Betty 11/9/1808
Richard 9/6/1811
Martha 7/6/1813
George 15/5/1815
Ian
p.s. Sorry Lisa forgot to tell you the Marriage record is on Ancestry, West Yorkshire BMD's 1512-1812
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Hi Ian,
Found the marriage with your additional instruction! It would fit, just can't be sure. Interestingly, two of John and Mary's kids, William and Richard, used family names for middle names of several of their kids. No Dewhurst..Was hoping to find a Bates somewhere as that is the one name I haven't been able to account for.
thanks again! Lisa
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Hi Lisa,
There's a marriage for William Bentley 21/10/1849 at St Peter's (Bradford Cathedral).
William Bentley (44) Bachelor, occup. Woodman, Low Moor, father John Bentley, occup. Labourer
Sarah Brakes (40) Spinster, no occup., Low Moor, father James Brakes, occup. Tailor
Both made their mark. The witnesses to the wedding won't help as these were the same as for the previous record on the page so looks like church wardens or the like.
That's probably about as near to Bates as you can get with a mis-spelling ;D
Ian
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Hi Lisa,
Having a further search there is a marriage between John Dewhurst and Martha Bates 19/1/1775 at St John the Baptist, Halifax which would tie in with the period Mary Dewhurst was born.
One of the witnessess was Richard Bates and names do tend to run in families sometimes.
Just a further thought,
Ian
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Hi Ian,
The first marriage is too late as the children with the Bates middle name are born in the 1830's, their parents in the early 1800's. But the Halifax? VERY interesting...Both families (William's ad Richard's) have children named John, Richard and Martha. And they have a sister Martha so the names definitely tie in. Are you just looking at Ancestry? I'm going back now to look into it...
Thanks SO much! Lisa
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Hi Lisa,
Yes , those details came from Ancestry West Yorkshire Records. I thought the William one might not be quite right due to the ages of both of them.
At least the Bates name might be explained for you?
Ian
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Ian,
It might! So John Dewhurst marries Martha Bates in 1775. I believe 'my' Mary is born in 1776 so that would fit. Have to go back and see if I can see a birth. Then Mary Dewgurst marries John Bentley in 1794. Since a Richard witnessses the marriage of John and Martha, I'll have to try to see if there is a Richard who could be her father or brother. Sure expains some of the names. One thing that bothers me is that I don't see a John in the children of John and Mary Bentley (m-1794). There are some gaps so maybe there was a John who died....Something to think about...
Thanks for all your help. by the way, where are you located? I am in the US..
cheers, Lisa
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Hi Lisa,
There are a couple of baptisms for Mary Dewhurst with father John listed,
16 April 1775 at Halifax, St John the Baptist, which would mean Martha was pregnant when they married if that is the one.
25th April 1776 at Elland, St Mary.
I can't trace a birth of a John Bentley to John and Mary Bentley although there were John Bentley's born in Heptonstall in that period. Why do you think they had a son John?
I live in Leeds, West Yorkshire,
Ian
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Hi Lisa,
Possible baptism for John Dewhurst 2nd December 1753 son of Jacob Dewhurst of Ovenden at Heptonstall, St Thomas.
Possible baptism of Martha Bates 8th March 1749 daughter of John Bates (occup. Carpenter) at Halifax, St John the Baptist.
Cheers,
Ian
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Ian,
Looking at reply #10, does either St. Mary or St. Halifax make more sense or are both viable options?
And I had been surprised that Mary and John (M abt 1795-perhaps the one you found) didn't have a John as his name is John. And then if your Mary is the right one and her father is a John? With all the names repetition, you'd think they would have had a John. But if you look at the list in first post, there are gaps if they are the correct children. A John could have been in there.
Looking back at that first post, do you think it could be likely that they are all the children of the same Mary and John? Even with the different "abodes"?
Going back to look at the baptisms you pointed out.
How's the weather in Leeds today? It's a beautiful day here in Pennsylvania; sunny but very cold.
thanks again! Lisa
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Hi Lisa,
Re reply #10, Heptonstall is to the north-west of Halifax and Elland is to the south-east so I would say the marriage at St John the Baptist would be the more likely one.
I did check the gaps between the births but couldn't find a John.
Of the abodes on the first post the places are in Lancashire with the exception of Highgate which was an area in Halifax, Yorkshire. Where did you get the place names from?
The weather in Leeds is around freezing with snow over the past 3 days and more snow forecast for tomorrow :(
Cheers,
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Thanks for answering my question. As for where I got the 'abode' names, they were on the actual records on Ancestry, West Yorkshire BMD's, Heptonstall, St. Thomas. I wonder if the family went from Yorkshire to Lancashire between the 1800 Highgate and 1806 Stonewood birth (if in fact all the births are from the same family).
Will do some more poking around today. Going to see if I can find a "Richard Bates" connection. If there were only some flashing lights that went off when you found the correct record!!
Cheers, Lisa
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HI there everyone :)
On the 1841 the Bentleys at Rochdale are NOT born in County (Lancashire) apart from Martha (did she marry into the family ?)
occupations are
John 1776 occ a weaver , cotton
Joshua 1801 , a cotton carder
Martha (wife of Joshua ? ) born in county , a frame tenter
Mary b ??? , a frame tenter
George 1830 , a mill piecer
Some bapt detail from Heptonstall Registers
Samuel 1795 of Height Gate , Erringden , fathers occ Webster (another name for a Weaver)
Josh 1799 Highgate , Erringden , father occ Webster
Mary 1800 ditto above
William 1806 Stoneswood Factory (a weaving mill) , Todmorden , Hundersfield
Richard 1811 Stoneswood Bottom , Hundersfield
(i dont think the place Hundersfield is the nearby town of Huddersfield , similar name)
Can't see Martha and George at moment will post more info as i find
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.......cont from above
Ahhhhhh :)
"Hundersfield"
otherwise known as Honnersfield (not to be confused with Huddersfield ) was a Parish of Rochdale , wich straddled the Yorkshire , Lancashire border .
So that would fit with a census at Rochdale , Lancashire and with the Heptonstall/Erringden/Todmorden area Yorkshire
link Hundersfield wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundersfield
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This might help to understand the area then and now
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Re Heptonstall St Thomas & Halifax St John's
I have a feeling that Heptonstall was not licensed for marriages at that time so marriages took place in the parish church of Halifax or at Cross Stone Todmorden.
The Lancashire / Yorkshire bit can be quite confusing. In 1841 the Todmorden area was in Lancashire except for the areas of Heptonstall, Stansfield & Langfield. By 1851 the whole area was Yorkshire so depending on which side of the border someone was born (even just a few miles up the road) they could have been born 'out of county' in 1841. It caused me endless headaches when I first started researching
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Totally agree! I also find it very confusing, but am trying to work thru it with lots of help!
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St Thomas, Heptonstall was licensed to conduct marriages following Hardwicke's Marriages Act of 1754, along with St John the Baptist, Halifax and St Mary, Elland. - Calderdale FHS
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Bumblebee is correct. The churches mentioned were the only ones which could conduct marriages in the whole of the very large parish of Halifax, from 1754 to 1837. That's why marriages of non conformists took place in the C. of E.
Anne
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yes - sorry I made a mistake with marriages at Heptonstall.
I should have known better - I have at least 2 marriages in my own tree at St Thomas' - the earliest 1794!
brain in gear.... comes to mind ???
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This might be a dumb question, but where would a marriage in that area take place before 1754?
Thanks to all, Lisa
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St Thomas, Heptonstall marriages commence 1593. Baptisms and burials 1599. Well, that's when the parish registers date from :)
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Sallyyorks - On the 1841 census how did you know that only Martha was born in Lancs? I am looking to see if I can find a birth for John. The transcription says he was born in Lancs. I assume that is wrong....I'm assuming since the ages could be rounded down that I need to look around 1771 - 1776 in Yorkshire. Also saw something funny on another census. Have to go back to see which one. Looked like boxxes saying if you were deaf, dumb were checked for all family members..
Cheers, Lisa
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on the 1841 census the next to the last column states whether born in county or not. All except Martha say 'n' (not). That would fit if they were born Erringden as that was Yorkshire and they were living in Spotland (Rochdale) Lancashire, basically the other side of Todmorden
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Thanks Lancsann. Just confirming so I can continue to try to find John's birth.
To all: just saw this: baptism for John Bentley, b-7 Jan 1777, baptized 20 Nov 1842 in Hepstonstall, father Raymond (I can't really see that). This looks interesting because I have my John's date of death as 29 Nov 1842 in Rochdale. Would it be possible for him to know he was dying, and having not been baptized, get baptized before he died? Will order cert to check age....
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Did you look at the actual image?
The father Raymond bit has been crossed out. John was of Round Field Stansfield
Interestingly on the same day (next register entry) is Henry Bentley of Sowerby Bridge b 1784
Lancashirebmd gives the age of a John Bentley in subdistrict of Whitworth & Brandwood as age 67 which would be about right
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I think this proves it is your John if the 1841 is right as it is the same address
from lan-opc.org.uk
Burial: 29 Nov 1842 St Bartholomew, Whitworth, Lancashire, England
John Bentley -
Age: 67
Abode: Bridgemill
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Yes did see image; why would name be crossed out? And did see the Henry. Interesting both registered late. Will look into that also. I just ordered the death cert for John. But would that make sense for him to be baptized just before death??
Thanks, Lisa
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Great!! Forgot to check lan-opc before I ordered cert. It confirm anyway... So maybe I have my John's baptisim, but still no father i guess:(
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possibly the Mary on the 1841 census?
Burial: 28 Oct 1849 St Bartholomew, Whitworth, Lancashire, England
Mary Bentley -
Age: 40
Abode: Millhouse
and wife Mary
Burial: 21 Nov 1849 St Bartholomew, Whitworth, Lancashire, England
Mary Bentley -
Age: 73
Abode: Bridgemill
Many people who had not been baptised had a sudden religious 'conversion' when they knew they were dying
I gues the 'Raymond' bit was just a lapse on the part of the cleric, there is also something crossed out in the name column
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The 1841 census at Rochdale, Lancashire has them as "n" Not born in County on the original image ( there appears to be a transcription error on A*****y mistaking the "n" for a "y" ) Joshua on a later census gives his birthplace as Erringden , Yorkshire . Joshua is not a common name . Ages on the 1841 are approximate . There is a baptism at St Thomas Heptonstall 20th April 1799 Joshua Bentley son of John Bentley occupation Webster (a weaver) of Height gate Erringden . The only marriage that seems to fit in that area is Nov 1794 St Thomas Heptonstall
John Bentley wb (webster) and Mary Dewhurst both of Erringden . People from Erringden usually used St Thomas Heptonstall .
Two possible bapts for John at Heptonstall are
apr 1775 s/o Samuel of Stansfield
and
mar 1776 s/o William of Stansfield
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Sallyyorks - Thanks for the great synopsis. Did you happen to look at my post #27? What do you think of that is a possible bap. for John?
Also trying to find Joshua in 1851. So far no luck....
Thanks to all, Lisa
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Lancsann - I'll have to look into that burial for the 1841 Mary. Possible.. I can't remember if it said she was married or single. I'll go back.
And I do believe that you showed the burial for Mary, John's wife. At least that is the one I have.
Thanks! Lisa
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Sallyyorks - Thanks for the great synopsis. Did you happen to look at my post #27? What do you think of that is a possible bap. for John?
Also trying to find Joshua in 1851. So far no luck....
Thanks to all, Lisa
Yes possibly .
I can't get on A******y at mo . Can you see where elderly John bapt 1842 is from , on the image . Does it give an area ? and do you know which Church ? . There is a Methodist Chapel at Heptonstall . It is possible that he had converted to Methodist and been baptised again . There was a strong Methodist following in the area .
What are the details for Joshua on the 1861 census when he is in the Workhouse ? (you mentioned on Lancs board) . Are there any other Bentleys in the list ?
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Sallyyorks - Maybe next time you are on A***y you can take a peek. It looks like to me that abode is Round Field in Stansfield. And it is St. Thomas. But would that have been where he was living when he was baptized in 1842? And interestingly like Lancsann posted, below that entry is a Henry Bentley, same baptism date, born Dec 178?, Sowerby Bridge (where he was living in 1842?). Maybe brothers that for whatever reason weren't baptized?
And in the 1861 census from the Workhouse in Rochdale, Joshua is born in Erringden; widowed. Fits with Joshua in 1841. There is also a Mary Bentley, b 1812 in Mill Bridge, Lanc. Not sure how she fits in. Age doesn't fit Mary in 1841 census.
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re an elderly John Bentley (and his brother?) bapt at St Thomas Nov 1842 .
Not saying it is connected but ...
Interestingly Aug 1842 was the month of big Chartist meetings and the Plug riots in the Calder Valley and at Halifax .Local mill workers/people were joined by mill workers from Lancashire.
"20,000 came from Rochdale and Bacup" on Aug 12th . The next day the 13th there were riots in Halifax at Salterhebble .
It is not hard to imagine that your Bentleys were part of the "20,000" who came to join the Chartist meetings in Calder Dale from Rochdale/Bacup Especially as they had been from the Calder Valley originally
Yes will have another look soon as :)
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my 'annals of Todmorden' book says 12th Aug 1842, Chartist meeting at Basin Stone, Todmorden, about 1,000 persons being present'
I would think that the address in the baptismal register would have been where they were living at the time.
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my 'annals of Todmorden' book says 12th Aug 1842, Chartist meeting at Basin Stone, Todmorden, about 1,000 persons being present'
I would think that the address in. the baptismal register would have been where they were living at the time.
Yes . I think what happened was that various groups /meetings in different areas met up . (Peep Green for example was a huge Chartist meeting at Hartshead Moor)
There is a Chartist website with a search section Chartist Ancestors. Seems to be a few Bentleys on it . Richard ? Samuel ?
Sorry can't link to site at mo (on a phone )
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Wow! That is very interesting. I will look into that Chartist meeting. I'm sure some of the Bentley family had to have been present.
and I'm going to see if I can find anything on Henry....
cheers, Lisa
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Sallyyorks - Maybe next time you are on A***y you can take a peek. It looks like to me that abode is Round Field in Stansfield. And it is St. Thomas. But would that have been where he was living when he was baptized in 1842? And interestingly like Lancsann posted, below that entry is a Henry Bentley, same baptism date, born Dec 178?, Sowerby Bridge (where he was living in 1842?). Maybe brothers that for whatever reason weren't baptized?
And in the 1861 census from the Workhouse in Rochdale, Joshua is born in Erringden; widowed. Fits with Joshua in 1841. There is also a Mary Bentley, b 1812 in Mill Bridge, Lanc. Not sure how she fits in. Age doesn't fit Mary in 1841 census.
There is at St Thomas , Heptonstall
Henry Bentley bapt 1788 s/o William wb (webster) and Mary of *Rawtonstall S (Stansfield)
and also the
John bentley (i mentioned earlier) bapt 1776 also s/o a William wb of S
I wonder if these are the elderly possible "brothers" next to each other in the register in 20 Nov 1842 St Thomas and that they were baptised twice ?
Burial , 5th May 1855 , Sowerby St Peters of Henry Bentley age 70
Possible parents
Heptonstall , St Thomas
Marriage Dec 26 , 1775
William Bentley wb of S and Mary Webster of W (Wadsworth)
nb , i think this *Rawtonstall is in the Hebden Bridge/Stansfield area and not to be confused with Rawtenstall , Lancs
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SallyYorks - thanks for looking. I'm am going back now to loook at the "John's" agian. That sure looks like the burial for Henry in 1855.
How far apart are Rawtenstall and Rawtonstall? And wouldn't that be an easy mispelling mistake??
Cheers, Lisa
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SallyYorks - thanks for looking. I'm am going back now to loook at the "John's" agian. That sure looks like the burial for Henry in 1855.
How far apart are Rawtenstall and Rawtonstall? And wouldn't that be an easy mispelling mistake??
Cheers, Lisa
Yes it is confusing , even to those of us from the Yorks/Lancs areas ! :)
. In the register it states Rawtonstall S . The S is an abbr for Stansfield . On google maps UK if you search Rawtonstall , an area near Hebden Bridge/Heptonstall comes up as RawtOnstall Wood . This is in what would have been Stansfield , the right area .
RawtEnstall Lancashire is about 15 miles West and not in Stansfield area .
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....from Chartist website
Register of Chartist Land Company Shares , Rochdale
5th Feb 1848 Richard Bentley occ Engineer of Whitworth , Rochdale , Lancashire
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Just found Richard! Cound very well be Richard, b-1811.
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There is another Richard in Rochdale in 1841, but only my Richard is an engineer..
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There is your man ! :)
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I like that fact that he was some sort of an activist!! Will keep poking around....
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Thanks to all who have contributed to this post! I feel like I have made some definite progress with my Bentley's!
I do have one question for anyone with access to A******y:
Looking at a baptism for Mary (looks sort of like Harry) Dewhurst; April 1775 ; image 2 of 112; Halifax, St. John. I am wondering what is says after Dewhurst. Can anyone tell?
Thanks so much, Lisa
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Hx (short for Halifax) Clothier. Not sure what the 'n' signifies, all the baptisms have 'n' or 'y' , presumably 'no' or 'yes' . Possibly duty paid? I can't remember the dates when there was a tax on entries in the register, I know it didn't last long.
Anne
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I think the name is
Henry (possibly Harry) Mary Jo. Dewhurst Hx (Halifax) Clothier
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thanks! I too thought it was Henry or Harry until I looked at the other M's and H's on the page and decided it did look more like an M than H.
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Another question - looking at July 1771; St. thomas, baptism of ??, dau or son of John Bentley, Stanfield; image 4 of 41. What is first name? I can't even guess....
Thanks!!
Wondering now if it is William.....
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I'd agree with Wm = William. And father's occupation Web = Webster.
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Thanks! Once you see what it is, it's hard to believe that you missed it:)
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Hi all,
I may be a bit late to the conversation...
I'm in the process of piecing together my family tree and now know my great great great (I think) grandfather was John Bentley b. 7 Jan 1777. I was wondering if any of you may be related and if you had more information dating further back. Or any more information on his descendants.
Thanks,
Olivia (Manchester, UK)