RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: LORC on Tuesday 22 January 13 11:10 GMT (UK)
-
THOMAS GEORGE BEILBY Iam reasearching this person on behalf of friend Little is known of him, but speculate he may have been born 1930s. Apparently he lived in Charleville Qld. Anyone be of assistance or know of his wife and children?
Lorc
-
Hi there's a man with the same name in Charleville in electoral registers, born well before your Thos Geo, perhaps his father?
1949 census listed as senior West St engine driver
also another Thos Geo shearer King St.
I'm not sure if No. 2 is old enough to be your man.
Tinam
-
Hi Lorc
There are quite a few Beilby burials at Charleville General Cemetery including:
Thomas George Beilby (perhaps his father?)
http://austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=8524082
http://austcemindex.com/cemetery-inscriptions.php?id=395 (maybe other family?)
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
I am seeing a George Thomas Beilby born 31st January 1892 by John Beliby and Hannah Johnson in Queensland (1595 002312)
died as of 31st May 1963 (001811 177)
was registered on the Electoral Rolls as Thomas George Beilby , and this link is his headstone under that name
http://trees.ancestry.com.au/tree/2273226/person/-1360273948/photo/d7114cd2-3477-4c72-ad0e-efad167b3c38?src=search
First appears on Electoral Roll of Adavale Maranoa Qld in 1913 as a labourer on the North Comongin Station
but by 1937 is at the Milo Station of Adavale (Maranoa) with Lilian Rose (hd), Ruby Arbuthot Beilby (hd) and William John Beilby (labourer0
Then also mentioned in 1937 at Charleville (Maranoa) at King Street with James , John (shearer) and there are other Beilbys living in Charleville.
By 1943 is known as Thomas George Beilby Snr.
Given he has a son of the same name there is a problem distinguishing for which is which up til his death in 1963, but Thomas jnr is still in
Charleville by 1972 and then seems to be in Greenslopes until 1980 when the electoral rolls online stop
(References were all on ancestry.com , and I presume u live in Australia , if u dont have a subscription then it is available thru public libraries)
-
the replies of tina and cup of life are associative of your chap.....
I would use what those nice folk have posted as part of your construction....of the tree
:)
-
there is one other member family estranged found >
https://online.brisbane.qld.gov.au/cemeteries/cemeteries_step3.jsp?mapdisplay=155986
(Arthur Edward Beilby buried 7th July 1896 Toowong Cemetery)
-
Hi,
Two engagement in 1952 and 1954 at Charleville.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/76996545?searchTerm=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/77030244?searchTerm=
Gerry
-
John Beilby who died 31 May 1916 Queensland Father James Beilby (Registration Queensland 001899 128) Elsewhere stated born of Yorkshire England
and
Hannah Beilby died 1 Mar 1921 Queensland Father William Johnson Mother Mary Helen Hughes (Registration Year: 1921 Queensland 000240 97)
gave issue to>
Mary Jane Beilby born 14 May 1885 Queensland John Beilby / Hannah Johnstone (Registration Year: 1885 Queensland 912 001433) Death 14 May 1885 (000905 912)
Laura Hannah Beilby born 6 Dec 1886 Queensland John Beilby / Hannah Johnson (Registration Year: 1886 Queensland 912 001507)
Rebecca Jane Beilby born 27 Nov 1888 Queensland John Beilby / Anna Johnson (Registration Year: 1888 Queensland 912 002001)
George Thomas Beilby born 31 Jan 1892 Queensland John Beilby /Hannah Johnson (Registration Year: 1892 Queensland 1595 002313)
Elizabeth Ann Beilby born 13 Sep 1894 Queensland John Beilby / Hannah Johnson (Registration Year: 1894 Queensland 1595 001919)
Mary Sophia Beilby born 8 Sep 1898 Queensland John Beilby /Hannah Johnson (Registration Year: 1898 Queensland 18 001998)
-
John Maitland married Laura Hannah Beilby on 2nd January 1906 Queensland
( Registration Place: Queensland 1906 000432 18)
-
Thomas George Beilby married Lilian Rose Denne on 19th January 1933 (Registration Place: Queensland 1933 : 000226 159)
-
Elizabeth Anne Beilby married Thomas Leslie Akers on the 19th January 1920 Queensland (Registration Place: Queensland 1920 000162 226)
Mary Sophia Beilby married Robert Renceflo van Geyzel on the 29th May 1926 Queensland (: Queensland 1926 B039975 238) which is a Brisbane code
which completes the marriages of John and Hannahs offspring
:)
-
and of the last post I can do of this family the next generation down for Beilby / Akers
The Australia Death Index suggests one Raymond Thomas Beilby Akers,who died in 1935 in Queensland, whose mother was Elizabeth Ann Beilby.
The Queensland bmds run out essentially at that point regarding this family, and I suggest tracking the whole lot through the electoral rolls to pick up on any more children who come of age to vote who stay at home with their folks.
Hope all my work is of assistance and good luck with any furthering research for your friend
:)
fastfusion
-
Mary Sophia Beilby married Robert Renceflo van Geyzel on the 29th May 1926 Queensland (: Queensland 1926 B039975 238) which is a Brisbane code
Robert Renceflo van Geyzel born 7 April 1897 Kuala Lampur; died 7 Mar 1974 (SMH 9 Mar 1974 “late of Eastlakes”)
Father Donald Schumacher van Geyzel 1864-1937; Mother Florence Sophia Bartholomeusz 1878-1945
Genealogy of the family of Van Geyzel of Ceylon is included in the book "Journal of the Dutch Burger Union of Ceylon"
http://www.dutchburgherunion.org/journals/vol_1_10/JDBU%20-%20Vol%2010%20No%203%20-%201917%281%29.pdf
SMH 9th Mar 1974
VAN GEYZEL, Robert – March 7, 1974, at hospital, of Eastlakes, dearly loved husband of Mary. Privately cremated “Till we meet again”
VAN GEYZEL, Mary - died 15th Sep1989 "late of Botany, widow" - Probate SMH 8June1990
Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park Crematorium
Mary Sophia VAN GEYZEL age 91
Robert VAN GEYZEL age 77
http://www.esmp.net.au/search-map-facility/crematorium-search.aspx
cheers :)
cupoflife
-
Many thanks to all you kind and caring people for this information. I am sure my friend will make use of it.
Lorc
-
My "best friend" in Charleville was a Beilby whose father was Tom. This was in the 1940s-late 1950s. She had an older sister and a younger brother.
The marriage quoted by fastfusion could well be the parents.
Unfortunately the last contact I had was in 1964 when we visited out there and she was living in the family home. I also knew her husband from childhood.
I believe the family has since moved, but I don't know where they ended up.
I don't know if these are the people you are looking for, but am willing to answer any questions (if I can dredge up the memories) if you wanted to ask via PM as they are more than likely still living.
Philippa
-
phillipa , very good i hope i can reunite you to the person who is seeking this tree, if you send me a pm as well giving me some clue as to your friends name i will see what i can specifically track for you and the person who placed the post .... via pms
I know we are not supposed to research live folk on rc but i can at least have a look at the fate of the folk you knew at specific addresses...
As I did say from the beginning Snr had one son named the same, and the two trove links given by aussie 1947 are the children of snr
marty
:)
-
Phillipa I am not person who requires info. Will contact same and get back to you.
Lorc
-
Here we go , after much hunting it is determined the Thomas George jnr is the father of Norah and Rosemary Beilby
as seen by the two engagement notices. However Norah was unfortunate and ended up marrying Ronald Wilkinson
and as u will see was traceable. However the fate of Rose the other child is unknown and I can only presume she married when she became of age
and can unless a marriage certificate is found then she cannot be sought after in the electoral rolls. Norah was of age when she married and does not appear as Norah Beilby
but under her married name with Ronald.
Engagement Notice (as hand transcribed from source)
Warren - Beilby - The engagement is announced of Ian Colin Warren eldest son of Mr and Mrs L N Warren of the Gresham Hotel Brisbane
to Norah Josephine second youngest daughter of Mr and Mrs T Beilby of "The Cottage" Galatea Street Charleville. Both are aged 19 and intend
wedding on the 10th of May. Bridesmaids are Rosemary Beilby, Joyce Spinster and Marion Warren. Best man is Dr Simpson of Dr Arriottis Surgery
also Lex Woods and Sid Fitzpatrick; flower girl is un - decided but Asmin Harding is expected to take the part.
Ref The Charleville Times Thursday3 April 1952.
Engagement Notice (as hand transcribed from source)
Beilby - Wilkinson - The engagement is announced of Norah eldest daughter of Mr and Mrs T G Beilby, West Street Charleville
to Ronald only son of Mr and Mrs E W Wilkinson, Alfred Street, Charleville
Ref The Charleville Times Thursday 27 May 1954
Norah Wilkinson nee Beilby of Charleville is first found in the Electoral Year of 1958 and until 1963 in the
State of Queensland in the District of Maranoa, Subdistrict St George discribed and found at Victoria Street St George home duties
with Ronald Gilbert Wilkinson of the same abode Watchmaker.
By 1968 they are living in Stanthorpe(div McPherson) at 6 Granite St but Ronald has become a Horologist
by1977 / 1980 they are still at that address but their son Robert james Cedric Wilkinson a student is home with them as with their son Mark Thomas who is also a student.
For any of the certificates required for any of these folk then one must contact the Queensland Registry Offfice Brisbane.
NB there is one Rosemary Ackrill Bilby mentioned in Toowoomba South in 1963 and by no means is she related to the Beilbys of Charleville.
-
I will further add I did notice the discreptancy as to "second youngest daughter" ; and
"eldest daughter" between the two notices and that leads me to believe that there is possibly another child whose name we dont know.
I also noted Norah drops her middle name when registering for the electoral roll and made certain of checking my facts as to the correct ronald etc etc....
This has been an interesting genealogy to track, and if the person who is after this information gets a subscription to ancestry.com they will see many pictures of these folk and other adjoining parts of the extended families....
Well good luck in your quest
fastfusion
:)
-
After having a chat with Phillippa we determined there was a third child and this is>
Ian Thomas Beilby first appears in the Electoral Years 1968/ 1972 in Queensland (District:Ryan Subdistrict:Toowong)
as , a manager appears with his wife Jill a typist at 2 Glenfrew St Kenmore
then appears in 1980 in New south Wales district of Mitchell sub district of Castle Hill at 9 Mornington ave Castle Hill still as a manager but Jill is a hd.
:)
-
My grandfather's name was Thomas George Beilby born in Charleville, QLD on the 01/10/1915 and died in Brisbane on 05/12/1997.
He married May Beilby (nee Whitford) born 26/05/1920 and died 10/05/2007.
As mentioned in an above post, one of his sons, my father, was also named Thomas George BEILBY born in Charleville on 31/01/1953.
My name is also Thomas George BEILBY, so I suppose I'm the third Thomas Beilby in the line.
Hopefully this helps.
-
A warm welcome to the forum. :)
It's just wonderful you have found this post and have a family connection.
All the best with your search.
Cheers
Tinam
-
welcome to rootschat tbeilby from qld.....
please let me know if you require any further profiling of genealogy for your family; and; I am hoping that all posted on the forum to date is correct....
fusion
:)
-
Hi tbeilby
http://austcemindex.com/cemetery-inscriptions.php?id=395
This link in case you have not seen it, shows Monumental Inscriptions- with photos- for some BEILBYS
I have a resource which has further details of the wording on some of these.
If this is of interest, please let me know.
Sue
-
I note that there are a succession of items listed here following the search for Thomas George Beilby. I know the answers to virtually all I have read - which information may be of use to researchers. In short, the succession goes as follows;
Thomas George (intended to be Thomas George but registered by someone who forgot the name order on the way into town as George Thomas) Beilby was the son of John Beilby, born Geelong, 1849 (John the son of James, born Swanland, Yorkshire - m. Baker). This Thos. G. was the first of the Thomas George name in Queensland although the Victorian branch of the family, i.e. sons and daughters of James Beilby, had names virtually the same names as the sons and daughters of John - hence one must take care. Queensland's first Thomas George (b. 1892) married Lily Denne and lived in his married years in Parry/West Sts., Charleville. He had three children, Norah (Wilkinson), Maryrose (Bell), and Ian Thomas. His nephew was Thomas George, b. 1915. And so, either Thomas George (1892) or Thomas George (1915) will be the Thomas George intially searched for.
-
This has me thinking:
"Engagement Notice (as hand transcribed from source)
Warren - Beilby - The engagement is announced of Ian Colin Warren eldest son of Mr and Mrs L N Warren of the Gresham Hotel Brisbane
to Norah Josephine second youngest daughter of Mr and Mrs T Beilby of "The Cottage" Galatea Street Charleville. Both are aged 19 and intend
wedding on the 10th of May. Bridesmaids are Rosemary Beilby, Joyce Spinster and Marion Warren. Best man is Dr Simpson of Dr Arriottis Surgery
also Lex Woods and Sid Fitzpatrick; flower girl is un - decided but Asmin Harding is expected to take the part.
Ref The Charleville Times Thursday3 April 1952."
This is sheer nonsense. I do not recall Norah's (daughter of Thomas Geo.) middle name. But 'Josephine'? Sounds unlikely. She was not the 'second youngest daughter' of Mr and Mrs T. Beilby. She was the elder of Thos. George's two daughters. In 1952, Norah was working in the Q.N. Bank in Charleville. In 1952, there was a young teacher in town called Ian Warren. However, in 1952, Norah and her father, Thomas, did not live at The Cottage, Galatea Street. They lived on the corner of Parry and West Street. In 1952, Norah would have been about 19. I would have thought Ian Warren would have been a little older since he was teaching Commercial subjects in the Secondary Department of the school at that time.
What is certain is that no such wedding ever took place and certainly I never heard it spoken of - and I was at the house frequently enough. Were I to take a guess, I'd say that the C'vlle Times notice was a hoax, an April Fool's joke - note the date of the newspaper - 3 April 1952. What's more Mary Rose was Mary Rose or Maryrose, not Rosemary. What I could say with certainty is that Thomas George, Norah's father, would have been ropable and ready to take a whip to whoever inserted the notice and to the Editor of the C.T. for publishing it.
So we have an address wrong, Maryrose's name wrong, I expect Norah's middle name is wrong - and how Dr Simpson would seem to have been involved with his name in this notice, I cannot imagine. I can only assume that the notice got the town either talking or laughing for a day or two and was then promptly forgotten. It must have seemed quite inconsequential to me since I have absolutely no recollection of it and since Norah and I were very close, an engagement to Ian Warren would have registered permanently since I knew them both. (As for Norah's middle name, the record of her death in the Queensland Justice Department would set the matter straight.) Sounds to me as if someone with only a vague knowledge of the personal details of the pair concocted the story. I see Ian Warren's parents are listed as The Gresham Hotel, Brisbane. That may be so, but I thought he came from Toowoomba or thereabouts - but on this point I could be very wrong.
-
"As I did say from the beginning Snr had one son named the same, and the two trove links given by aussie 1947 are the children of snr"
The elder Thomas George Beilby was T.G.B. Senior (b. 1892) - son of John Beilby (b. 1849). The Junior T.G.B. (b. 1915) was the son of James Beilby (b. Stawell, 1880), elder brother of T.G.B. Senior.
I note that one contributor states that Norah was the daughter of T.G.B. Junior. He was actually T.G.B. Senior.
As for Norah's 'misfortune' regarding engagements, her misfortune lay in the fact that the newspaper notice of her engagement to Ian Warren was a hoax.
-
And a last thought, for sure:
Anyone with a knowledge of country towns in the 1950's would realize that the 'engagement' joke had a certain malice, possibly unintended. I do not know. However, an engagement announced in April of a marriage to take place one month later meant only one thing. The shotgun.
-
Well I have read the responses that the newcomer has posted on this forum regarding the research. I can assure the writer of these posts that has responded that your tone of reply is somewhat of a shock as there seems to be an overtone which disputes the actual records. I can only base the profiling on the actual records. If folk have not told the truth in creating those records then that was their affair. To publicly dispute what is clearly written in the research material is your business , however, I think that given your responses , then maybe the family wrote the records to get some sense of dignity or maintain a pride within the Beilby family name as country areas often depend of reputation. If you think that the dirty washing should be told then by all means do so but when folk come onto this worldwide forum and ask for research to be done , it is given in good faith. I would suggest that personal messages be used by you to the persons who asked for this research to be done. I am offended that although the truth may appear to be different in life as to the records I found and it is saying that my research was wrong.
You have made a decision for me that in future when folk who are tracing their family trees can blimming well do it themselves and after 30 years of finding folks families whatever their creed you have taken the last straw towards insults. Let me assure you I am not happy with your posts.
MARTIN SHERGOLD
-
My apologies. I had no idea I'd tread on anyone's toes and, having done so, let me say 'sorry' most sincerely. I was much struck by the effort that has gone into tracking down what must have seemed elusive and I was most impressed by what had been discovered from 'first principles' so to speak. Had I not been impressed and not seen the sincere effort to discover the truth that lies behind these records, I'd not have offered any contribution at all. But since I can tell the answers to all the questions that have been raised and explain some items that seemed to cause confusion, I offered the truth of the matter in good faith. Some guesses as to what research findings tell are, as one searches for final answers, necessary to be made and sometimes those guesses will, as progress is made, prove to be inaccurate - but that is not to attribute blame or fault on those who are forced to 'postulate'. What I have done is to offer speedy and, be assured, accurate answers to questions that have proved elusive to date - and I thought those who have struggled with these questions might have been appreciative. As to airing dirty linen or to be seen to be disrespectful in questioning some records, I must confess to some puzzlement by the claim. Facts are facts and I make no judgement about them - and where what are thought to be genuine 'records' turn out to no more than local jokes, no blame can be attributed to those who, by necessity, mistake them for the genuine article. Be assured that what I have written is totally accurate and if my contribution assists in providing the answers to matters that have puzzled people in this thread for some time, then I'm happy to have helped. It's probably a good basic truth in research to assert that it's worth maintaining some emotional distance from one's cold interpretations of records. After all, it would be a trifle silly to speculate about the fate of Leichhardt and then to be offended if, suddenly Leichhardt turned up and put an end to the need for speculation and corrected any confusion that might have occurred. The horse's mouth is usually to be relied on. This is not to say that the search for Thomas George Beilby is an identical situation but, let me assure you, my contribution comes as close to that situation as you're going to find.
-
Has anyone thought to look for the occupants of "The Cottage" at the relevant time? Electoral rolls or something similar?
-
Be assured there was no 'The Cottage' in Galatea Street and no Beilby lived in that street. In 1952, there were only two T. Beilbys in Charleville. One lived in King Street, the other, lived in Parry Street. There was only one Beilby family in town, all members having derived from the original Beilby settler, John Beilby. I do admire the energy and dedication that has gone into tracking down this elusive Thomas George Beilby and his various relatives - but sometimes the records can confuse, especially where identical names are involved over two generations or when a particular record turns out to have been no more than an April Fool's joke. The name, Thomas George Beilby, is confusing in Charleville. By about 1960 there were three members of the extended Beilby family in the town, each of whom bore that name. They covered three generations and two households. As for Norah, allegedly of 'The Cottage', as I continued to cast my memory back, I'm pretty sure she had no middle name - nor did her sister, Maryrose. To attribute to her the middle name of 'Josephine' would have seemed to local townspeople and to Norah herself, insofar as she might have enjoyed the joke, somewhat amusing. 'Josephine' in that town at that time would have been seen as the sort of name one would find in Music Hall burlesque. There was an old 'tramp' lady in the town named "Jo" - and that was the extent of the name's use. "Jo" had a horse and cart and collected pigs' slops from cafes and hotels. She also had a shotgun that she wasn't backward in brandishing at those who might attempt to shoot wild ducks from her billabong. The Beilby family knew it well. I had long forgotten the 'engagement' notice of 1952. The only detail I do vaguely recall is Norah's mentioning to me some amusement or otherwise about 'The Cottage', a name that no self-respecting western Queensland pioneer would have dreamed of using - and certainly not Thomas George Beilby. He may have named his residence, say, "The Gunyah" - but not 'The Cottage'. As it happened, his sole Charleville residence in Parry Street had no name. As for the perpetrator of the hoax, I have no idea who it might have been. The whole thing cannot have been taken all that seriously otherwise there'd have been some family discussion, some family outrage perhaps. And given that I was in the alleged fiancé's class at the time, I think I'd have known if Ian Warren had been 'courting' my cousin. Further, had he been engaged to her, I feel sure he'd have sought my goodwill rather more readily than he did.
-
A little more research to clarify matters.
The "Charleville Times" containing the Warren - Beilby engagement notice is headed, Thursday, 3rd April, 1952.
Perhaps it was the Editor's idea of an April Fool's joke.
The paper was issued weekly on Thursdays. The issue dated 3rd April, 1952 was actually issued on Thursday, 1st April, 1952 - as a reference to the 1952 calendar will indicate.
-
My grandmother's middle name was Josephine, in the town at the time, and there was no suggestion of burlesque or music hall involved. It was quite a common name.
I was not thinking of other Beilby families in Charleville, just wondering about who actually was living in "the cottage". Don't forget, some houses had names (I know of a couple) attached near the front door that were not necessarily part of the postal address but which may have been used for other reasons.
I was also in Charleville at the time and good friends with Maryrose. At no time do I remember mention of a practical joke involving Norah, nor do I remember anyone other than Ron Wilkinson being associated with her.
If a practical joke had been the case, surely someone (including my parents) would have given voice to "righteous indignation"?
Not that it matters, now, really. All water under the bridge and it doesn't actually change anything at all, does it?
Bit of a puzzle really.
-
Hi,
I am the granddaughter of John Beilby (known as Jack) listed in the 4th post. My grandfather lived in King Street, Charleville and was a shearer, born 1911 to 1994.
His father was James Beilby who married Emily Robertson and had 12 children - my grandfather being one of them. Thomas George was one of my grandfathers brothers born in 1915.
James Beilby's father was John Beilby who married Hannah Johnson - his grave is one of the, if not, the tallest one remaining in the cemetery. They had six children - Bill (Jack), Elizabeth, Laura, Mary, Rebecca and Thomas. The grave of Thomas George in the cemetery is my grandfather's uncle, born 1892 to 1973.
-
A couple of corrections that may help.
Emily Beatrice Robinson
Thomas George d. 1963
John/Hannah - 7 children. I think you mean 'six other children".
-
this is my grandfather
-
Welcome to RootsChat Aydeeoh, hopefully Lorc will reply very soon
Regards
Sarah :)
-
I posted info for another person. I can't find email add. Ifyou reply privately will give you their postal address. Lorc
-
Hi Lorc,
As aydeeoh is a new member with one post, perhaps you can send them a pm with the details. Please remember that new members are unable to send and receive pm's until they have made more than 2 posts ;)
Regards
Sarah
-
Hi anyone still need info ?