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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: murton on Saturday 26 January 13 10:39 GMT (UK)
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This photograph of a Voluntary Aid Detachment was taken at least 100 years ago and my research suggests that it was taken circa 1911-1913.
This is not an ‘off the cuff’ group photo, this is a professionally arranged group of nurses all in pristine new uniforms and I consider that it has important relevance to the history of the Scottish Red Cross who were unable to offer any assistance or identify the location.
The background to my research is that in 1909 the Government launched a scheme for the organisation of Voluntary Aid in England and Wales for the British Red Cross Society to assist the Government by providing Voluntary Aid to the Territorial Medical Service to meet the needs of war. This scheme was adopted by Scotland in December 1909.
The only positive identification so far is the young officer on the Matron’s left. He was Captain James Johnstone Dykes, King’s Own Scottish Borderers who was killed in action in Gallipoli on 12th July 1915. Why he was an Infantry officer was probably his personal choice as he was a qualified Doctor and Dentist which is relevant to my query.
Regarding the Elder officer on the other side, I enlarged his image to identify his decorations and he is wearing a Neck Badge that is almost certainly a Knight Commander of the Bath. I also checked the medal ribbons on his left breast and the first one that appears black has a small image in the centre which, if this was a colour photo, would obviously appear Maroon with a small Bronze Cross in the centre indicating a Victoria Cross. I am therefore 100% sure that this is Field Marshal, Lord Roberts.
I may well be wrong but I have chosen Lanarkshire as the location for the following reasons. BRCS Archives have advised me that in the Lanarkshire Branch between 1911 and 1916 a Mrs W.A. Dykes was Vice-President at Hamilton Detachment and Mrs Lee Dykes was Vice-President of East Kilbride Detachment. Also Captain Dykes’ hometown was Westfield, Dumfries. Whether there was a family connection in unknown but they were certainly within comfortable travelling distance.
So were these two ladies responsible for the formation of a Voluntary Aid Detachment in Lanarkshire and was Captain Dykes, a qualified Doctor, responsible for the medical supervision of the training of the VAD Volunteers? More importantly, was this the first Voluntary Aid Detachment formed in Scotland and the reason for the presence of Lord Roberts whose mother incidentally was born in Edinburgh?
I am sure that there must be at least one more copy of this photo in Scotland from which a family descendent can identify any of the nurses? This would almost certainly confirm the location and the purpose of the photo.
I would be most grateful for any suggestions that may solve this problem particularly as the WWI Centenary Commemoration is on the horizon.
Tony
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Sorry about the quality of the photo the original is much clearer
Tony
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Hi Tony ,
I think this topic would be better on the Scotland General(was on Perthshire) board.
Also added link with further information -
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic1411.html (http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic1411.html)
ev
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A better scan of the x2 men would really help in any ID....when blown up I cannot make anything out at all...Esp faces etc...Would be nice to see if it is "Bobs" on the pic...
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From the link -
ev
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Sadly this is not "Bobs" it is the wrong uniform for a Field Marshall, and he appears to be of field rank by his hat...I would say a Lt Col, but he could be a Capt...ergo this could well be Capt Dykes he is wearing the post 1902 frock coat...and he is wearing the distinctions of a 7th (City of London) Royal Fusiliers...Do we know more of the history of this VAD Superintendent???
It does make sense if the chap the other side is his KOSB son...
The neck badge could just as easily be the Order of St John given the surroundings... :)
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The Order Of St John also has an emblem on the medal ribbon....Usually when worn alone....
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I may well be wrong but I have chosen Lanarkshire as the location for the following reasons. BRCS Archives have advised me that in the Lanarkshire Branch between 1911 and 1916 a Mrs W.A. Dykes was Vice-President at Hamilton Detachment and Mrs Lee Dykes was Vice-President of East Kilbride Detachment. Also Captain Dykes’ hometown was Westfield, Dumfries. Whether there was a family connection in unknown but they were certainly within comfortable travelling distance.
So were these two ladies responsible for the formation of a Voluntary Aid Detachment in Lanarkshire and was Captain Dykes, a qualified Doctor, responsible for the medical supervision of the training of the VAD Volunteers? More importantly, was this the first Voluntary Aid Detachment formed in Scotland and the reason for the presence of Lord Roberts whose mother incidentally was born in Edinburgh?
Just some thoughts. Likely the W. A. in the name fo Mrs Dykes could be her husband's initials, as was custom in those days?
There is a Will & Testament entry on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) which includes the folowing entry:
William Alston Dykes. Dated 5 Feb. 1917. The Orchard, Hamilton, died 27 Nov. 1911. Original confirmation granted on 2 Feb. 1912. EIK to Confirmation ad non executa granted 12 April 1932. Hamilton Sheriff Court Wills - ref. SC37/43/14
He is referred to here, www.saxonlodge.net/getperson.php?personID=I2452&tree=Tatham (http://www.saxonlodge.net/getperson.php?personID=I2452&tree=Tatham) Apart from Writer (to the Signet), he is also showing as Deputy Lieutenant, Lanark. Could he be the gentleman in the photo I wonder? His wife, as VP for Hamilton, maybe in the photo?
See here regarding 'The Orchards' www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/sc-34478-auchingramont-road-19-the-orchard-/photos (pity no photo on there).
This W A Dykes died late 1911. So if it was him in the photo, might help with dating.
Monica
Added: Details of Mr & Mrs WA Dykes' son, Alfred McNair Dykes here http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic6177.html (http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic6177.html) Looks to have been in the King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) 1st Bn. See also here www.kingsownmuseum.plus.com/ko2654.htm (http://www.kingsownmuseum.plus.com/ko2654.htm)
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I dont think that is his son....
This is more likely to be him....
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/600864/DYKES,%20JAMES%20JOHNSTONE (http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/600864/DYKES,%20JAMES%20JOHNSTONE)
That gives us Thomas and Elizabeth Haining Dykes as his parents....and from Westfield, Maxwelltown, Dumfries.
Fits with his uniform too...KOSB being a Lowland Regt wore trews....
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Hi scrimnet
Thomas and Mary S Dykes are certainly given as JJ Dykes parents from that link that Ev posted
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic1411.html (http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic1411.html)
Just trying to see where we would get to with the two VP of the VAD in Lanarkshire. Mrs WA Dykes I think connects well The Orchards. Still need to figure out Mrs Lee Dykes.
Monica
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Possible for Mrs Lee Dykes (I am assuming she was Mrs?). From 1901:
Mary Lee Dykes 64, Living On Own Means b. England
Jeannie Ralston Stewart 24, servant
Margaret Henderson Kennedy 19 servant
Address: Alstonville Cadzow St, Hamilton
But there is problem with this entry :-\ There is a Will & Testament entry on SP. This shows:
Mary Dykes, 13 Jan. 1905. Other surname Lee. Alstonville Hamilton d. 24 April 1904. Hamilton Sherrif Court
There has to be another Mrs Lee Dykes around too given the dates mentioned of 1911-16 from here?
...BRCS Archives have advised me that in the Lanarkshire Branch between 1911 and 1916 a Mrs W.A. Dykes was Vice-President at Hamilton Detachment and Mrs Lee Dykes was Vice-President of East Kilbride Detachment.
Monica
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Scrimnet
There is no doubt as to the identity of Capt. Dykes as the original photograph came from his grandaughter.
Regarding Lord Roberts. Whilst I said that 'I' was 100% sure there were other doubters and I have to admit that the cap badge did leave a slight doubt in my mind but the important point is the purpose of the photo. Why did it require the inclusion of two service personal? Dykes, as I said, was a qualified doctor so the obvious assumption Medical Adviser. The elder gentleman appears to be a person of some importance commemorating the event.
Monica has made a reasonable suggestion - Is he the Deputy Lord Lieutenant and perhaps the Matron beside him may be his wife and even more remotely in the grounds of their home? There is every possibility that a Voluntary Aid Detachment was set up in Lanarkshire in 1911 before Wiliam Alston Dykes died.
Living way down on the Sussex Coast my knowledge of Scottish affairs is very limited. Would I therefore be correct in assuming that Lanarkshire County Council would possibly hold records of such an event?
Tony
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Mention here www.s1strathaven.com/memories/strathaven-home-front-news-1914-1918.html (http://www.s1strathaven.com/memories/strathaven-home-front-news-1914-1918.html)
Red Cross Week: Mrs. Lee Dykes of East Overton, presided, and gave out a large quantity of wool and flannel, etc......
The mention of East Overton, Strathaven fits better with what showed on the link at 'warmemscot' (....Dykes was Vice-President at Hamilton and Mrs Lee Dykes was Vice-President at East Kilbride and Strathaven between 1911 and 1916).
Monica
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Tony, can I just make an observation?
I am rubbish at dating photos in any respect, however, from the photos provided by family on http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic1411.html (http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic1411.html) - have to say that if JJ Dykes was 29 when he died in 1915, he certainly looked much younger in that photo with the nurses than in the later photos you have for him, closer to his death.
Do you know when he enlisted?
Monica
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Monica
Two photos of him in Gallipoli
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Yes, those are the ones I saw and thought he looked much older. These would have been taken?
He finished his studies in 1909 from the snippet included on the other forum post linked?
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Scrimnet
There is no doubt as to the identity of Capt. Dykes as the original photograph came from his grandaughter.
Regarding Lord Roberts. Whilst I said that 'I' was 100% sure there were other doubters and I have to admit that the cap badge did leave a slight doubt in my mind but the important point is the purpose of the photo. Why did it require the inclusion of two service personal? Dykes, as I said, was a qualified doctor so the obvious assumption Medical Adviser. The elder gentleman appears to be a person of some importance commemorating the event.
Monica has made a reasonable suggestion - Is he the Deputy Lord Lieutenant and perhaps the Matron beside him may be his wife and even more remotely in the grounds of their home? There is every possibility that a Voluntary Aid Detachment was set up in Lanarkshire in 1911 before Wiliam Alston Dykes died.
Living way down on the Sussex Coast my knowledge of Scottish affairs is very limited. Would I therefore be correct in assuming that Lanarkshire County Council would possibly hold records of such an event?
Tony
My first port of call would be the local newspaper archive... :)
On a Lord Lt or even a Dep Lord Lt, there would be gorget patches on the collars and a county device as the cap badge...not a Fusiliers badge... ;)
The elder chap is in what is known as "undress" uniform of the day sans all his medals, therefore not a very important event, witnessed by Dykes younger in patrol jacket and Trews. He also isn't wearing a sword or indeed a sash or Sam Browne....Only the old boy is....
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Hi,
Re: Voluntary Aid Detachment- identification.
Does anyone know how I could get the name of a nurses in the picture? The nurse behind the younger man (at the one o'clock position) may be my grandmother. Any information will be appreciated. Thank you. Hannah
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Hi,
Re: Voluntary Aid Detachment- identification.
Does anyone know how I could get the name of a nurses in the picture? The nurse behind the younger man (at the one o'clock position) may be my grandmother. Any information will be appreciated. Thank you. Hannah
Hannah
Would be most greatful If you get a positive result. Whilst I have not pursued the subject it is still in my pending file.
Murton
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Hi Murton,
I will let you know if I get anymore information. Hannah
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This thread has been moved to Dumfriesshire as the detachment has now been identified as Dunbar Terrace Red Cross Auxiliary Hospital, Dumfries. I consider by the professional arrangement of the staff, this is recording an event not just a group photograph. More details in previous posts.
I consider the photograph was taken sometime between 1911 & 1914 and would be most grateful if anybody can confirm the reason for the photograph.
Tony.
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There were several generations of 'Dykes' who were dentists in Dumfries until fairly recently (within my lifetime) the Bridge House museum in Dumfries has a display of Dentist's chair and equipment witch belonged to James Dykes, Dentist. (I think it was James but that should be checked)
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imchad
My interest is primarily in the formation of the Voluntary Aid Detachment, Capt. Dykes presence is obviously because he was a Doctor by profession and almost certainly medical adviser to the detachment he also, apparantly, hails from Dumfries.
Thanks for your interest
Tony
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The Matron pictured in the centre looks to be my Great Grandmother Mary McGeorge who received an MBE for leading the VAD Hospital in Dumfries during the war. She matches a painting we have in the family of her in uniform with her MBE