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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: Rochdalian on Monday 28 January 13 04:58 GMT (UK)
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Hi
We've been looking for the birth of Samuel Edwards for years and just today had a minor breakthrough. In the newspapers we found a reference to his daughter Doligny Edwards impending nuptials to Sir Joshua Colles Meridyth in 1822. It stated that Doligny was the daughter of Samuel Edwards Esq of Flintshire. That is the closest we have come to a hint of his native place. Working off other info we believe he was born c1740. We found one baptism in the time frame: Samuel Edwards bap 16 Jan 1742 Wepre.
We are looking for any hints as to which way to head next, or if someone has any info that may be useful please.
Thanks
Bob & Helen
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Hi
This could be the entry - Wepre was a township in Northop
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCTM-RX4
The link to FindMyPast would be likely to give you details of his parents.
However, you'd need to investigate a bit further. I see from Family Search that Doligny married in Etchingham, Sussex in 1822 and she was with her husband in Bath in the 1841, aged 50(-54). In 1851 she a visitor in Bath, aged 70 and b. London* It could be that Samuel was 'of Flintshire' later in his life but not born there. Where and what date do you first encounter him? What were his children's names and where were they born? Is there a will that might give more information?
* dying Grosvenor Street, London 25 January 1864?
brevitas
(Welsh wills here - http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=searcharchivaldatabases )
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Trying to find more clues. There are quite a few newspaper articles about Sir Joshua but not much on Doligny.
In 1861, Doligny, aged 79, is a lodger at Bryanston St, Marylebone RG9/77/21/35 With her are a Hannah? Edwards, 76 and Emma Edwards, 70. Both unmarried. All 3 born St Clement Dane, London.
Added - further info for other searchers:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,478071.msg3371437.html#msg3371437
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,491918.msg3493530.html#msg3493530
Also quite a few trees on Ancestry but not available at the moment :(
brevitas
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I assume that this is his will:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D392117
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You probably have these but I'm trying to see if there's a naming pattern ~
Children of Samuel and Sarah bpt at St Clement Dane:
24 Jan 1774 Ann Reynolds
18 Feb 1775 George Hay
25 March 1776 John Samuel
9 June 1777 Samuel
11 Nov 1778 Harriot
7 March 1782 Emma
30 May 1783 Jane Jemima
(no Doligny so far :( )*
*Found a tree that has her bptism as 1773
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~usher/ushersct/4106.htm
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Helen, I'm sure you've done what I've just been doing many times (Googling their names and searching sources ) as I've found your requests for info on other sites as well as here. I've found a tree that has his father as Sir Jonathan Edwards and mother as Maria Bray/Pierce BUT it has Doligny dying 1864, Washington, Utah, US BUT links to the correct probate record!
Have you checked this Edwards/Bray/Pierce connection?
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Hi Brevitas
You have managed to find nearly all the facts we know in just a short time, well done. The first time we encounter Samuel is his marriage allegation shortly before his marriage to Sarah Robinson. He states he is of St Benet's parish at the time of the marriage and it seems that from snippets we have gleaned from papers and such that he moves into Beaufort Buildings with the Robinson family and that's where he dies. And yes that is his will which gives us no clues at all about his beginnings. You have seven of his nine children the first two were Sarah Margaret b1771 and Doligny b1772. When she was baptised in Jan 1773, at St Clement Danes, her name was spelt Doulinie. The Usher tree that you found has Samuel as a Colonel, something we have no proof of.
I was just about to send this when your next message arrived. Yes you are right! Found the Edwards/Bray/Pierce theory years ago and, along with other family reseachers, searched for proof and found none. Although I must say some 'cousins' want to believe it because it's in Burke's Peerage! Always dubious about trees that have people dying in the US when it is patently obvious that they couldn't have - a slip of the drop down menu maybe.
Bob & Helen
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Hi again :)
Could you say in which newpaper you found the ref to Flintshire? I've found various entries to their marriage via my local library (online) but, so far, no mention of Flintshire.
e.g.
The Morning Post, Monday 11 Feb 1822 - where it says that Doligny was the second daughter of the late Samuel Edwards, Esq.
Bristol Mercury, Saturday 16 Feb 1822 - again, Doligny was 2nd daughter of the late S Edwards, Esq., of Beaufort Buildings, Strand
Searching for Doligny and Meredyth, both with various spellings is not easy is it :-X
brevitas
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It was in the Bath Chronicle & Weekly Gazette 14 Feb 1822 - Sir J. C. Meredyth, bart. of Maudleen, co. Kilkenny to Doligny, second daughter of the late Samuel Edwards, esq; of Flintshire.
Don't think anyone really cared about correct spelling in those days - or now come to think of it ::)
B & H
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Forgot to say, that clipping was from the British Newspapers collection on FindMyPast
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It's not in my Libray collection - will have a look on FindMyPast!
I presume that the witnesses - Thomas Lindsay and Henry Pars? - offer no clues :(
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They were both married to sisters of Sarah Robinson, Lindsay to Elizabeth and Pars to Mary. They were both artists and it appears that Samuel moved in a very arty group.
Signing off now, getting late in OZ
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Sleep well!
Just found that St Benets was the Welsh Church of the City of London*:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Benet_Paul%27s_Wharf
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=64053
* but only since 1879
The church has been used by a Welsh congregation since 1879
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/city-ch.html
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There is a reference to him as a Colonel here :-
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ufJBAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA585&lpg=PA585&dq=joshua+colles+%2B+edwards+%2B+co+heir&source=bl&ots=4VkgNI-Nsu&sig=6sakq-ZGbtV2BCFY7DfsDgFTUdc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IZoHUb7aKYWa0QXh6IGoDw&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=joshua%20colles%20%2B%20edwards%20%2B%20co%20heir&f=false
(Apologies,I haven't found the"shrink link" in the new format yet.)
Obviously this is not proof,just a reference.
Regards
Roger
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Thanks Roger, we had seen that and similar before and as you say not proof. As his principle occupation seems to have been as a purveyor of fine grape juice, and a prominent person, could he have been a sort of honorary Colonel to a local militia group? I know nothing about that sort of thing so don't know even if that sort of thing was possible.
Brevitas, we were in London in 2011 and visited St Benet's but couldn't get in, and it did seem a little derelict, however a subsequent email conversation with a church officer assured me that the church had a vibrant if small and poor congregation. Seems a shame as another Sir Christopher Wren church just up the road gets all the mentions, but I suppose it is a lot bigger and more important!!
B & H
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Nothing in any of the Military records for him. Lots are missing though. He could have been a reservist in the Napoleonics (died 1807) or possibly the American wars (unlikely though).
Roger - Shrink link is botton left hand column, under 'Your Tools'. It wasn't working properly at the beginning of the change over so I resorted to Tinyurl - but I think it works now!
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I hoped I might find reference to him in Oxford or Cambridge Alumni,but no luck.I did find Rev. Samuel Valentine Edwards,Trinity College,who is named as nephew and co-executor in the will of Dame Doligny Meredyth along with her spinster sister Emma.I may need to re-check but Samuel Valentine may be christened 1809 St Martins,eldest son of Samuel of St Martins.
In a complete speculation,as Samuel appeared well connected,I have tried to find a relationship with Samuel Edwards,MP for Great Wenlock,Shropshire as a geographic bridge to a "seat"/residence in Flintshire,but again,failed so far.
Brevitas-thanks for the "shrink link" info.
Regards
Roger
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B&H - I assume that you had a good look through any of the available St Benets records, just in case. A pity that the marriage allegation had so little info :( It makes me wonder if his status and £s were via Sarah's family as he lived there afterwards. I note that both signed the marriage entry.
From what I saw yesterday, the only ref to Flintshire was in the one newspaper. I note that that section was 'flowed on' rather than block listed. I just wonder if the 'of Flintshire' was written in inerror by the setter :-\
brevitas
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Samuel Valentine Edwards was the grandson of Samuel Edwards esq (there are too many Samuels so I will use esq when referring to the main man!). SVE was born 20 Nov 1807 and baptised at St Martin in the Fields 6 May 1808 son of Samuel Edwards (b1777) and Betty Eccles.
There is a 'sort of' link to Flintshire in that the daughter of Samuel esq, Sarah Margaret Edwards, married Hugh Totty in Flintshire in 1791 and at some point in their lives they lived in Bath, and both died there. The Totty family lived in Flintshire and Hugh was a clergyman of some note and lived to be 101 years old.
The St Benet's records, as far as we can, have been checked and re-checked to no avail. Although we think he may just have been living in that parish as another unsubstantiated 'fact' is that he was a Proctor in Doctors' Commons which was just near by. If indeed he was then it must only have been when he was a young man as he certainly was a wine merchant (Helen has a copy of a list of wine provided to Lord Walsingham in Norfolk in1782).
Indeed, the newspaper reference was strange in that it was the only one to mention Flintshire.
Thank you both so much for the effort you have put in on what seems to be destined to continue to be a brick wall!
B & H
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I can't find an online database,but might "Samuel Esq" have been a member of The Honourable Company of Vintners?Perhaps there might be some form of record/biography of him there.Even if it is only a joining date perhaps something could be inferred from this.
There also seems to be reference to acquaintance of both Samuel and Doligny with Francis Towne the artist,but again frustratingly no online version of the correspondence(with a third party) containing the reference,only a summary with notes allluding to it.
Regards
Roger
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Roger, could you tell us please where the reference to Samuel & Doligny knowing Francis Towne comes from? Helen tells me that she heard about that about ten years ago but never got on top of it as she had a computer crash and lost all her notes and emails etc.
Cheers
B & H
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The reference is here in the notes to the first correspondence in this series
http://francistowne.blogspot.co.uk/2007_09_01_archive.html
While it might be a reasonable assumption that they met in the London area,I think Towne also visited North Wales.
Regards
Roger
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Roger, Helen managed to find the email address of the chap she was corresponding with all those years ago. Funny thing is she found it in a notebook, they don't crash, and the chap still had the same address. Upshot is we sent an email and got a quick reply. Samuel esq was given power of attorney over one of Towne's savings accounts at the Bank of England in 1780 just prior to him (Towne) going to Italy - from B of E archives. Doligny Edwards received 100 pounds in Towne's will. And Towne was very friendly with William Pars and knew his brother Henry and Henry married Samuel's sister-in-law. The Par's were artists also so maybe the connections between the Edwards family and Towne were through their mutual friends the Par's. We get the feeling that they were in and 'arty set'.
Also sent an email to the Vintners Company but no reply yet.
Thanks for the leads and tips!
Cheers
B & H