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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: marinelife on Wednesday 30 January 13 21:02 GMT (UK)
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Hi to all
I don't know if anyone can help me but after 9 months of searching I am giving it a go. I am trying to find my friend's grandmother, she died in 1968 and was born end 1905/beginning 1906 and her name is DOROTHEA ETHEL? and thats all I know (sorry). The story through the family was that her mother died in childbirth and her father soon after and she was then "adopted out" to the Conington family. Dorothea married in 1936 in Ampthill to Francis William Gower, she married under the name Dorothea Ethel Clarke - widow, and her father was named as William T Conington. The family tend to think that Dorothea was'nt a widow as her daughter was born in 1935 and no father was named on the birth cert. Dorothea and Francis had 2 children and the mother's maiden name was again listed as Conington. Also Dorothea E Conington appears on 1931/32/33 London electoral role as living in Hackney. Stories passed down by the family also state that she was one of the first ladies to attend Oxford Uni. I have been in touch with the Uni who have tried their best to try and discover who this lady was. They have failed to find anyone with the names Conington/Clarke with the correct birth etc. I have tried to find marriages between Conington/Clarke but to no avail. I can't even find the man named on her marriage cert as her father. I have,however, found an Ethel Conington born at the correct time in Lincolnshire, no father was named on her birth cert and Ethel appears on 1911 census with a "monthly nurse" whilst her mother appears on 1911 census living with her family (her mother went on to marry and have several children, the whole family then moved to Ampthill). There are no records of Ethel Conington born 1905 after the 1911 census. Is this Ethel Conington the Dorothea Ethel ? I am searching for. There are quite a few coincidences with the Conington family from Stamford. It is a stab in the dark, but does anyone out there ever come across, what could possibly be, the lady I am searching for. It is so frustrating no to be able to find someone's grandma whom we know did exist. Fingers crossed someone may know something
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Hi
You haven't told us the name of Ethel Conington's mother from the birth cert. If that mother went on to marry - it doesn't tie in with the story that Dorothea's mother died in childbirth
Dorothea E Gower died in Northants March qtr 1968 aged 62 so birthyear 1905 or very early 1906 and the Ethel Conington you mention was registered March qtr 1906 so everything fits so far
I wonder if she just added Dorothea because she didn't like Ethel?
I see she had an Ernest Gaines living with her in 1933
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Hi
Do we know anything about Ernest Gaines who was living with Dorothea on the electoral roll? The family can't understand where the story came from about her mother dying in childbirth and her father committing suicide soon after. I know I am grasping at straws with Ethel Conington but I just don't know where else to look. Ethel Conington's mother was Minnie Conington and she appears on 1911 census living with her father George Conington in Stamford. As said previously there are no records after 1911 for an Ethel Conington. I just have a feeling that Ethel Conington and Dorothea Ethel Clarke/Conington could be the same person. Her mother Minnie marries, had children and then goes to live in Ampthill where Dorothea married Francis Gower. I can't believe though, the a family would tell so many lies,. mother's death, father's suicide, attendance at Oxford and even that Dorothea was supposed to be a cousin of Dame Anna Neagle. Thank you to all who are trying to help me find my friend's grandmother.
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The only death in the London area for an Ernest Gaines was an Ernest B Gaines b c 1886 died 1957. It's impossible to say if that is the same person as in 1933
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As you say, the Ethel Conington born in 1906 Stamford didn't marry. Or die young. Or die old. ;) There's no obvious outbound passenger record for her either (in case she was sent as a Home Child to Canada or Australia, for instance).
She looks to me, too, like a good bet for your person.
Does anyone remember the date of your friend's Dorothea's birthday? A living child who would know when it was, or a family birthday book, or anything? To check against the birthdate on Ethel Conington's birth certificate, but I guess if anyone knew, that would have been done. (You seem to have that birth cert but didn't mention the birthdate.)
The tale of her mother dying in chldbirth -- to prevent her asking questions, I would imagine. It sounds like she was adopted (informally, at that time) within the family, after her mother had a baby without being married. Not uncommon. -- If that is what happened and it wasn't just a story to explain her surname. The story about her father could be true, as it seems a little harsh to invent just to avert curiosity. But if he had been a married man, for example, questions could have been problematic, and a tale for why we don't talk of him might have been needed. There are other less pleasant possibilities; young women were abused and assaulted then as they are today, and childbirth wasn't a choice then.
That was a time when young women did change their first names to be more fancy and modern. My grandfather insisted that my grandmother Lily be Lilian after they married c1920, as Lily was just too common for him (and we didn't know until after my baby sister got Lilian for her middle name in the mid-1960s). A while back, I tracked down someone's grandmother, who married around that time as Kathleen Marion, being born as plain Kate Mary. ;)
No William T Conington ever existed, either. Even the name William Conington is pretty thin on the ground. Did she know her father's name, and he was a William T something? Possibly Clarke? (You haven't said details, understandably, but I'm not seeing a birth with mother Conington in 1935ish.)
Oh, duh. Minnie Conington's husband was William T Hilliam. (You have to give all the known details!) And yes, he died in Ampthill, although all the Hilliam-Conington births up to 1923 were in Sleaford after Stamford. It does look like Dorothea/Ethel returned to the bosom of her family at some point.
Possibly Dorothea herself told the stories about her parentage, to avoid explanations about her birth. (Two parents who died young, leading to an adoption, are better than two unmarried parents ... but where did that "Clarke" come from??) Minnie and William Hilliam both died in 1955 in Ampthill, for info.
With name-shifters, it is the coincidences such as you have with Dorothea & Ethel that start to build the case. It's what led me to my gr-grfather's real identity: he sprang into existence as an adult and neither he nor the father he named when he married my gr-grmother ever existed before that. But someone with the same given names and birth details and father's given name, and, I eventually figured out, same sister who had adopted the same fake surname, did (although we'd never even known he had a sister). The two with the real surname and father ceased to exist after 1871/1873, and the two with the new name and father emerged with the sister's marriage in 1875 and my gr-grf's 1881 census record and 1883 marriage. What I then went on to find tied in with the one family story I had ever heard that he told in Canada (all his first family in England had died of "a plague", and indeed the real person's first wife and child, brother, and sister's child, and probably others, died of tuberculosis), and the one I only heard after all my sleuthing (that he had deserted from the army in India after 5 years rather than go to Afghanistan, putting it about 1878, and coinciding perfectly with the "other" fellow's (i.e. the first) wife's death in 1873). I will never have proof positive, but I also have not the slightest doubt the two people are one and are him. But like your Dame Anna Neagle tale, I have more doubts about his third story to go with his fake name, of his (real?) father being the younger brother of a particular Viscount. ;) Dame Anna was Florence Marjorie Robertson born in Essex in 1904 -- her mother was a Neagle, born in Limehouse -- anyway, a fair distance from your folks.
I think you have your girl, but you still have fun left to have with the chase. What will the 1921 census have to tell?!
(A tip -- my long paragraph there notwithstanding -- if you hit the Enter key a couple of times to make some spaces between your thoughts, it's a whole lot easier to read. ;) )
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Hi
Many thanks for taking an interest in my search and sending me your thoughts. Sorry, did forget to mention W T Hilliam. I have put a story of my thoughts on Ancestry along with the tree. Believe it or not my friend did not know his grandmother;s birthday but given her age when she died it would coincide with the birth of Ethel Conington. My friend also remembers his late mother once telling him that she had relatives in Lincolnshire but like so many of us he never really took any notice and never asked questions. On my friend's late mother's birth cert her mother's maiden name was given as Conington (also the same on her brother's birth cert). One further mystery is that when Dorothea married F W Gower she gave her name as Clarke and she was a widow (have checked all marriage records and never found one between Clarke and Conington but Dorothea did have a daughter Edwina Anne b 1934 (prior to her marriage to F W Gower). The mystery is that when Edwina married 31/10/1953 at Finchley to Derek Sydney Robinson, she married under the name Edwina Anne Clarke and gave her father's name as Edward Albert Clarke (deceased). I cannot find a birth for her (don't know where she was born). My friend did tell me that Edwina fell out with her mother, Dorothea, as she found out in later life that there was no father named on her birth cert and I believe she also lied about her age and had in fact been born prior to 1934. I have spent months going round and round in circles each time hitting brick walls, I can't get over how many lies have been told around this lady. The only other piece of info I have is from Dorothea's marriage cert where she names her father as William Thomas Conington, his profession is listed as Barrister.
Again thank you so much for your interest
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Maybe the Oxford University link comes from the Conington Prize that is awarded annually :-\
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conington_Prize
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Hi
Thank you so much for the link, will contact the uni for info - fingers crossed there is a link
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or it's one of those family myths that you must be related to someone just because you have the same surname.
You mention her father being a barrister, does the family profile sort of fit whereby the family would have been able to afford to send someone to university and then law school and then to be called to ther Bar? Even nowadays, it's not cheap.
Maybe just another embellishment.
Again there may be a bit of truth in there somewhere, ie employed as a legal clerk?
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Won't you give us some paragraphs/white space? ;) (It really is so much easier to read. Just hit Enter Enter at the end of a sentence.)
William Thomas Hilliam was a builder in his young adulthood, so I doubt he became a barrister! But when one makes things up, one may as well shoot for the moon. But -- it is always possible that while she invented the name, taking Hilliam's given names, and her own surname, it was the occupation of her real father, either as she knew to be true or as she had been told it was.
You have Edwina's age/dob 1934 from her marriage certificate, or her death? (After 2005? as it isn't in the deaths index, but I'm assuming she is deceased, since we are talking about her!)
Have you tried to find and contact other descendants of Minnie Conington and William Hilliam? They might be aware of an Aunt Ethel/Dorothea in their family. I think Minnie's children were fairly prolific and there should be living grandchildren, i.e. nieces/nephews of Ethel. It's interesting to note that Minnie had a younger daughter Dorothy (born 1923, died 1996, not married).
There are two trees at Ancestry/Mundia with Minnie in them - one thing I hadn't noticed is that Minnie had a younger sister Ethel born 1888 and died 1892, so that would be who daughter Ethel was named for. One of the trees may be your friend's family? as it shows only Minnie's marriage and shows only daughter Ethel for Minnie; the other shows nothing for Minnie but herself.
Ethel was living in Hackney in the early 1930s but Dorothea married in Bedfordshire in 1936 and had her children there. It really is impossible to believe that she is not part of the Hilliam-Conington family, having followed the same trajectory of Stamford to Ampthill. But Hackney, hm. A move to London as a young woman, where she had a baby, and then she went back home with her daughter Edwina when the Depression deepened? But to be with her family, and yet marry as Clarke ... Perhaps she told them she had married in London and she had to keep up the pretence, and said her husband had died.
The only possible Edward A Clarke death 1930-1953 was one born 1906 who died in 1930 in Orsett. Possibly interesting, if Edwina was really a good bit older. He was born 1905 and married 1927 as Clark in Orsett, so he looks rather unlikely.
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Hi
Will try and make it easier for you to read. Just spoke to my friend to let him know where I
am up to. The only thing he can remember about the London connection was the family
story about Dorothea being a in service at one point and then living with 2 old ladies called
Aunt Crit and Aunt Etty. Goodness know who they are, he doesn't seem to think they were actual
aunties.
Hope this camed through better
Take care
Sue
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Groan! At least I know what my mum's Auntie Dud's real name was! ;D
(even if we don't know which Mr X -- her middle name and, we are told, the surname of the household where her mother was in service -- was her father)
Do have a look at that Colinson birth ... probably pure coincidence, but maybe worth considering.
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Hi
I have contact Oxford Uni to enquire what "The Conington Prize" was. They have sent me
a wealth of info. It was set up by a John Conington 1825 - 1869 who attended Oxford and read
Law. He was from Lincolnshire and was the son of Rev Richard Conington. John's brother Henry James was an solicitors articled clerk and his second brother Francis Thirkhill Conington also attended Oxford. Again coincidences begin to appear. Coningtons from Lincolnshire, attended
Oxford and had the Law connection (as said in my first post Dorothea was supposed to have been
one of the 1st ladies to ever attend Oxford. Am I grasping at straws and looking for connections
where there are none????
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You seem to be echoing my sentiments of reply #8
Oh dear :-\
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From the online family trees (you can check them too! -- free at mundia.com)
Minnie's father was George Conington 1856, a butcher
George's father was Edward Conington 1818, a butcher
Edward's father was Edward Conington 1766
Edward's father was Thomas Conington 1721
Only one brother is shown for Edward 1766: Francis 1760
Edward 1818 had brothers Thomas, William and Daniel
John Connington 1825 established the Conington Prize
John's father was Richard Connington 1796
Richard's father was James 1755
James's father was Jacob 1722
Only one brother is shown for James 1755: Jacob
(Jane, widow of James 1755, was still living in 1841 it seems, independent means;
Richard 1796 was a clerk, i.e. clergy, in 1841)
FS shows the parents of Jacob Conington 1722 as Jacob and Anne:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JM8S-P6N
They also had childen Henry 1721 and An 1726.
FS doesn't show parents for Thomas Conington 1721 but it's always possible he was a brother or first cousin of Jacob Conington 1722.
So, assuming those are accurate, any connection there might be with Rev Richard Conington's family would be pretty remote (although they were undoubtedly related somehow).
If Thomas 1721 and Jacob 1822 were first cousins, Ethel/Dorothea? Conington and John Conington 1825 who established the prize would have been third cousins twice removed: grx4 grandchild and grx2 grandchild of the parents of Thomas and Jacob.
Just as my dad would have been the third cousin twice removed of the children of my second cousin four times removed, Viscount Sankey, if he'd had any children. ;) My dad had never heard of Viscount Sankey, and his children would never have heard of us -- but you never know, since in your case they were all named Conington and living in Lincolnshire, they may well have been well acquainted.
Since Dorothea was apparently in service and having a child before marriage at the age of around 28 ... well, she could have gone to uni first, but hmm, eh?
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Hi all,
I've just come across your thread of messages regarding Minnie Conington and Dorothea Ethel. I am a Hilliam descendant and I am in touch with my cousin, the grand daughter of Minnie and William Hilliam. I am sure she'd be very happy to shed some light. She has good knowledge of the family.
Lucy
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Hi Lucy
A Belated welcome to Rootschat ;D
Just doing some housekeeping and noticed you posted on an old topic from 2013 and marinelife didn't reply.
Maybe their email address changed and they didn't get a notification?
If you can come back and reply on this topic, you will then have access to the personal message system and maybe try sending them a message directly.
https://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Dawn
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Just for some clarification, Dorothea's birthdate given as 29/12/1905 in 1939.
Since original poster seems to have the birth certificate of the Ethel Conington birth registered Mar.qtr.1906 does this date tie in?
Annette
Added: just found Ethel Conington's baptism on 9/2/1906 Stamford, mother Minnie BUT her birthdate is given too and confirms she was indeed born 29/12/1905!
So, Dorothea Ethel and Ethel Conington are indeed the same person.