RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent => England => Kent Lookup Requests => Topic started by: MattD30 on Tuesday 05 February 13 02:11 GMT (UK)

Title: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: MattD30 on Tuesday 05 February 13 02:11 GMT (UK)

Can someone please check the parish registers for Charing for me to confirm who the parents of Anne Rayner were. On the IGI there are two entries:

Anne Rayner - christened 4 October 1674 Charing - parents Thomas and Mary
Anne Rayner - christened 4 October 1674 Charing - parents Robert and Mary

I would be very grateful if anyone can double check this with the original registers and let me know who Anne's parents were, or if there were two christenings on that date.

Thanks
Matt

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: Zacktyr on Friday 08 February 13 07:54 GMT (UK)

Hello Mat,
The father looks to be Robert.  Here are a few extracts I made from Charing Bishop's Transcripts:

SURNAME	GIVEN NAME	EVT	DATE	YEAR	PARENTS/SPOUSE	PLACE	SOURCE
RAYNER	Elizabeth	C	01 Sep	1673	Robert/Mary	Charing	BT
RAYNER	Anne	C	04 Oct	1674	Robert/Mary	Charing	BT
RAYNER	Richard	C	23 Dec	1677	Robert/Mary	Charing	BT
RAYNER	Frances	Chr.	28 Oct	1683	Robert/Mary	Charing	BT

SURNAME	GIVEN NAME	EVT	DATE	YEAR	PARENTS/SPOUSE	PLACE	SOURCE
RAYNER	Robert	Burial	08 Dec	1668	No details stated	Charing	BT
RAYNER	Robert	Burial	15 Mar	1709	No details stated	Charing	BT

Hope this helps to clarify the IGI dilemma for you.  There was no marriage of the parents at Charing.

Good luck.

Sincerely, Susan

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: MattD30 on Friday 08 February 13 19:14 GMT (UK)

Quote from: Zacktyr on Friday 08 February 13 07:54 GMT (UK)

Hello Mat,
The father looks to be Robert.  Here are a few extracts I made from Charing Bishop's Transcripts:

SURNAME	GIVEN NAME	EVT	DATE	YEAR	PARENTS/SPOUSE	PLACE	SOURCE
RAYNER	Elizabeth	C	01 Sep	1673	Robert/Mary	Charing	BT
RAYNER	Anne	C	04 Oct	1674	Robert/Mary	Charing	BT
RAYNER	Richard	C	23 Dec	1677	Robert/Mary	Charing	BT
RAYNER	Frances	Chr.	28 Oct	1683	Robert/Mary	Charing	BT

SURNAME	GIVEN NAME	EVT	DATE	YEAR	PARENTS/SPOUSE	PLACE	SOURCE
RAYNER	Robert	Burial	08 Dec	1668	No details stated	Charing	BT
RAYNER	Robert	Burial	15 Mar	1709	No details stated	Charing	BT

Hope this helps to clarify the IGI dilemma for you.  There was no marriage of the parents at Charing.

Good luck.

Sincerely, Susan

Thanks Susan

I thought the father was Robert, but finding two entries on the IGI did confuse me so thanks for clearing that up. I have the other names as well so thanks for confirming those. Now all I need is to find the marriage.

Matt

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: Zacktyr on Saturday 09 February 13 04:29 GMT (UK)

Hello Matt,

Yes, the marriage would be key!  In my database I have the following reference to a marriage licence and to a marriage:

SURNAME	GIVEN NAME	BRIDESUR	BRIDE GIV	EVT	DATE	YEAR	PARENTS/SPOUSE/NOTES	PLACE	SOURCE
RAINER	Robert	BROWN	Mary	ML	...	1672	...	...	Canterbury Marriage Licenses in    BOYDS G & B II [abstracted by J. M. Cowper]
RAYNOR	ROBERT	BROWNE	MARY	Marr	20 Dec	1672	...	ST.ANDREWS, Canterbury, KENT, ENGLAND	I.G.I.

   

Sorry, I do not have the actual license as my one and only reference came out of Boyds Marriages.  The parish register for St. Andrews may be able to provide some additional information about the parties but to get the full details you would want to look at the license.

Sincerely
Susan

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: Zacktyr on Saturday 09 February 13 04:33 GMT (UK)

Hi Matt,

For some reason the table setup in my reply, above, shoved the right-hand column too far right!  What the source says for the first entry is:

Canterbury Marriage Licenses found in Boyd's Marriage Index Grooms and Brides II, abstracted by J. M. Cowper.

The source for the second entry is simply the I.G.I.

Sincerely,
Susan

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: jibba on Tuesday 26 March 13 10:25 GMT (UK)

Hi Guys

I accidentally stumbled on this page whilst looking for something else. Ann Rayner is my ancestor, but I have Ann's parents as Thomas & Mary. My source comes from the transcripts made by KFHS

1669/70 16 Jan Thomas s/o Thomas RAYNER
1671/72 10 Mar Mary d/o Thomas & Mary RAYNER
1674 04 Oct Anne d/o Thomas & Mary RAYNER

These are the entries I could see for Robert Rayner. Looks like 3 generations given the gaps

1621 09 Sept William s/o Robert REYNOLDS

1641/42 06 Feb Ann d/o Robert & Margaret RAINER
1643 02 Apr Robert s/o Robert & Margaret RAINER
1644 06 Oct Elizabeth d/o Robert & Margaret RAINER
1646 11 Oct John s/o Robert RAINER
1648 29 Dec William s/o Robert RAYNIRD
1648 29 Dec Richard s/o Robert RAYNIRD
1650/51 09 Feb Susana d/o Robert RAINER
1653 23 Jun Mathias s/o Robert RAINARD
1654 29 Dec Gorg s/o Robert RAINNARD

1677 23 Dec Richard s/o Robert REYNER

I think we'll need to double check both the original register and the BT to confirm who Ann's parents really were :(

Regards
Lee

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: MattD30 on Sunday 31 May 15 01:27 BST (UK)

Has anyone identified who Anne Rayner's parents were? Could Thomas and Robert have been brothers who both had a daughter named Anne perhaps?

Matt

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: Zacktyr on Sunday 31 May 15 07:23 BST (UK)

Hi Matt D.,

Since my original posts in 2013 I've transcribed the whole of Charing BTs and can find no evidence to support a second Anne having been born to a Thomas and Mary Rayner (any surname spelling) at Charing.  What does appear are a series of one-off burials, two independent marriages and a cluster of baptisms in the 1660s-1680s.  There are then two distinct clusters of baptisms, which suggests that possibly either two brothers - Thomas and Robert, Thomas being older than Robert , or, Thomas being Robert's father with Thomas and family moving into Charing sometime during the civil war and Interregnum period.  The marriage of Robert Rayner of Charing and Mary Browne, also of Charing took place pursuant to licence granted Dec 23, 1672.  I now have the the licence transcribed as well and include that transcript, below.  So, if the Anne Rayner baptised in 1674 is likely your ancestress, then her father must have been Robert, not Thomas.  Thomas vanishes from the parish after the second baptism on 10 Mar 1672.  I have also included the whole list of Rayner events from Charing, in chronological order so you can see the progression of families in Charing.

First the marriage licence:
Rayner, Robert, of Charing, yeoman, ba[tchelor], 29, and Mary Brown, s.p. [of the same place], sp[inste]r, 18, whose father being dead, her mother, Margt. Chapman, consents. At S. Andrew, Cant. Thos. Chapman of Charing, innholder, bonds. Dec. 23, 1672.

Second the extracts from the Bishop's Transcripts - lacks the civil war and Interregnum period:
1st entry of a Rayner at Charing -
SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Judith      DBL   28 Oct   1619   do John      Charing   BT
RAYNER   Elizabeth      DBL   20 Nov   1631   wife of John   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   05 Nov   1632         Charing   BT

Grom: PHILPOT   Alexander Bride: RAYNER   Elizabeth     Evt: Marr   09 Nov 1635   Charing   BT

SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAINER   Stephen      DBL   12 Nov   1639         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Susanna      DBL   02 May   1664   do Robert   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   08 Dec   1668         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Thomas      C   16 Jan   1670   Thomas/nwn   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Mary      C   10 Mar   1672   Thomas/Mary   Charing   BT

then Thomas disappears and Robert appears

RAYNER   Elizabeth      C   01 Sep   1673   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Anne      C   04 Oct   1674   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   George      DBL   24 Jul   1675         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Richard      C   23 Dec   1677   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

Groom: ODIERNE   John   Bride: RAYNES   Anne   Evt: Marr 30 Sep 1681 Charing BT


SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUS   PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Frances      C   28 Oct   1683   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Susan

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: MattD30 on Sunday 07 June 15 19:16 BST (UK)

Quote from: Zacktyr on Sunday 31 May 15 07:23 BST (UK)

Hi Matt D.,

Since my original posts in 2013 I've transcribed the whole of Charing BTs and can find no evidence to support a second Anne having been born to a Thomas and Mary Rayner (any surname spelling) at Charing.  What does appear are a series of one-off burials, two independent marriages and a cluster of baptisms in the 1660s-1680s.  There are then two distinct clusters of baptisms, which suggests that possibly either two brothers - Thomas and Robert, Thomas being older than Robert , or, Thomas being Robert's father with Thomas and family moving into Charing sometime during the civil war and Interregnum period.  The marriage of Robert Rayner of Charing and Mary Browne, also of Charing took place pursuant to licence granted Dec 23, 1672.  I now have the the licence transcribed as well and include that transcript, below.  So, if the Anne Rayner baptised in 1674 is likely your ancestress, then her father must have been Robert, not Thomas.  Thomas vanishes from the parish after the second baptism on 10 Mar 1672.  I have also included the whole list of Rayner events from Charing, in chronological order so you can see the progression of families in Charing.

First the marriage licence:
Rayner, Robert, of Charing, yeoman, ba[tchelor], 29, and Mary Brown, s.p. [of the same place], sp[inste]r, 18, whose father being dead, her mother, Margt. Chapman, consents. At S. Andrew, Cant. Thos. Chapman of Charing, innholder, bonds. Dec. 23, 1672.

Second the extracts from the Bishop's Transcripts - lacks the civil war and Interregnum period:
1st entry of a Rayner at Charing -
SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Judith      DBL   28 Oct   1619   do John      Charing   BT
RAYNER   Elizabeth      DBL   20 Nov   1631   wife of John   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   05 Nov   1632         Charing   BT

Grom: PHILPOT   Alexander Bride: RAYNER   Elizabeth     Evt: Marr   09 Nov 1635   Charing   BT

SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAINER   Stephen      DBL   12 Nov   1639         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Susanna      DBL   02 May   1664   do Robert   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   08 Dec   1668         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Thomas      C   16 Jan   1670   Thomas/nwn   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Mary      C   10 Mar   1672   Thomas/Mary   Charing   BT

then Thomas disappears and Robert appears

RAYNER   Elizabeth      C   01 Sep   1673   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Anne      C   04 Oct   1674   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   George      DBL   24 Jul   1675         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Richard      C   23 Dec   1677   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

Groom: ODIERNE   John   Bride: RAYNES   Anne   Evt: Marr 30 Sep 1681 Charing BT


SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUS   PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Frances      C   28 Oct   1683   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Susan

Hi Susan

Wow you have been busy! I am pretty sure that the Ann born 1674 is my Ann. I take it the registers show no record of Thomas having a daughter named Ann though?

I have done a quick check on Familysearch and found the following entries for a possible Robert:

Robert son of Robert Rayner - chr 13 Dec 1655 Bishopsbourne
Robert son of Robert and Margaret Rayner - chr 2 Apr 1643 Charing

Bishopsbourne is about 14 miles from Charing.

There are three possible Roberts who could be the father of the last Robert listed above (born 1643)

There is a Robert Rayner son of John - christened in Charing on 26 Dec 1619. John appears to have married Elizabeth Ansett in 1609 in Charing and also had a daughter named Elizabeth born there in 1617.

There is another Robert Rayner son of John - christened in Egerton on 18 Apr 1619.
There is also a Robert Rayner son of Simon - christened 27 Jun 1602 in Selling.

As for John's ancestry there are several possible candidates:

John son of Samuel Rayner - chr 6 May 1582 Boughton under Blean
John son of John and Anne Rayner - chr 29 Jan 1575 Faversham

There is a burial of a John Rayner in Faversham on 7 May 1576 who may be the second John listed above, or his father.

Both Boughton under Blean and Faversham are about 8 miles from Charing.

What are your thoughts? Did the Charing registers give any sign of Robert's baptism or burial?

Incidentally I've recently been doing some work on Rayners in Folkestone. Some of these seem to have moved to the Faversham area in the late 1590s and early 1600s so there may be an early link there as well.

Many Thanks again for your help

Matt

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: Zacktyr on Sunday 07 June 15 21:43 BST (UK)

Hi Matt,

Correct, there is no record of Thomas having had a daughter named Ann and there was no baptism for Robert amongst the register that I have as I do not have the parish register but only the Bishop's.

It is possible to calculate Robert's anticipated birth year as being sometime around 1642/3, which would put it smack at the commencement of the Interregnum, for which the parish registers are required for searching.  This timeframe is based on the age of 29 years given by Robert on his marriage licence of 1672. He may well have been 1 or 2 years older or younger than stated at that time so some flexibility in birth year is required.

While Faversham may eventually play into your family, I do have a very full index of the registers of that parish that I completed several years ago and have found no Robert being baptised in that parish.  Likewise, Ospringe, Preston-next-Faversham, Throwley, Eastling, Badlesmere, Sheldwich, and Selling.  In all of these instances, I do have the parish registers and have indexed the whole of the civil war and Interregnum periods for each parish.

However, upon second look at my index of Charing I find under the surname spelling of REYNER a baptism for a Thomas son of John on 26 January 1622/23 (O.S.). I think is very likely the Thomas that appears for two baptisms in the early 1670s at Charing.  And there is an early baptism for a Robert [spelled Roberth] Raynerd at Charing during 1578/9 (O.S.) but no parents' names are recorded.  What may be this Robert's marriage appears in the Canterbury Marriage Licences by J. M. Cowper, vol. 1, as follows:

Rayner, Robert, of Chart Magna, maltman and Elizabeth Clarcke, s.p., v. At Kingsnorth.  Repent Clarcke of Chart Mag., linen weaver, bonds. Aug. 10, 1614.

Both Great Chart and Kingsnorth are in the vicinity of Charing.

There were also large contingents of Rayners at Ashford and Lenham from mid-1570s up to  the late 1590s and into the 1600s, continuing at Ashford beyond that time but not at Lenham.

So, I think that perhaps you need to discover what events took place at Charing during the 1641/2-1660 period before looking farther afield.  I don't know if you are familiar with the LDS Family History Centres or not, but the Charing parish registers can be rented on microfilm from the library and sent to a FHC near you.  The register microfilm number would be 2228358 but there is another filming (not as extensive in years or events) on 1473748 Item 3.  To find a centre close to you go to https://familysearch.org/locations/centerlocator?cid=hp2-1047 (https://familysearch.org/locations/centerlocator?cid=hp2-1047).  I have found the locator to be sometimes tempermental and not perform a search.  If that happens to you send them a quick email via the link in the top right-hand corner.  Unfortunately, Findmypast only has burials for Charing spanning 1790-1867 and they are not available on FreeREG or familysearch.org.

I hope this helps somewhat. 

Just an aside, do you have any connection to the William Rayner who married Pamela Nutt during 1835 at Faversham?  William Rayner was allegedly born circa 1812-1816 most likely at Oare.  Their children range in relationship to me from 2nd cousins to 5th cousins.

Sincerely,
Susan

Quote from: MattD30 on Sunday 07 June 15 19:16 BST (UK)

Hi Susan

Wow you have been busy! I am pretty sure that the Ann born 1674 is my Ann. I take it the registers show no record of Thomas having a daughter named Ann though?

Did the registers give any sign of Robert's baptism or burial?

Incidentally I've recently been doing some work on Rayners in Folkestone. Some of these seem to have moved to the Faversham area in the late 1590s and early 1600s so there may be an early link there as well.

Many Thanks again for your help

Matt

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: MattD30 on Monday 08 June 15 02:24 BST (UK)

Hi Susan

I been looking through some old notes I made on the Rayner family and think I have found Robert's christening. I have a note of a Robert born in Charing to Robert and Margaret in 1643 which would fit the timeframe exactly.  I don't have Robert and Margaret's marriage or any records of other children or their burials.

I have also found a large number of Rayner entries in the parishes of Boughton under Blean and Selling.

The lot in Folkestone and Faversham could still be related to those in Charing but I am less sure about that unless the link is further back.

I have a whole list of Rayner wills to look at too so hopefully they will shed some light on the puzzle.

Matt

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: MattD30 on Friday 12 May 17 22:33 BST (UK)

Quote from: Zacktyr on Sunday 31 May 15 07:23 BST (UK)

Hi Matt D.,

Since my original posts in 2013 I've transcribed the whole of Charing BTs and can find no evidence to support a second Anne having been born to a Thomas and Mary Rayner (any surname spelling) at Charing.  What does appear are a series of one-off burials, two independent marriages and a cluster of baptisms in the 1660s-1680s.  There are then two distinct clusters of baptisms, which suggests that possibly either two brothers - Thomas and Robert, Thomas being older than Robert , or, Thomas being Robert's father with Thomas and family moving into Charing sometime during the civil war and Interregnum period.  The marriage of Robert Rayner of Charing and Mary Browne, also of Charing took place pursuant to licence granted Dec 23, 1672.  I now have the the licence transcribed as well and include that transcript, below.  So, if the Anne Rayner baptised in 1674 is likely your ancestress, then her father must have been Robert, not Thomas.  Thomas vanishes from the parish after the second baptism on 10 Mar 1672.  I have also included the whole list of Rayner events from Charing, in chronological order so you can see the progression of families in Charing.

First the marriage licence:
Rayner, Robert, of Charing, yeoman, ba[tchelor], 29, and Mary Brown, s.p. [of the same place], sp[inste]r, 18, whose father being dead, her mother, Margt. Chapman, consents. At S. Andrew, Cant. Thos. Chapman of Charing, innholder, bonds. Dec. 23, 1672.

Second the extracts from the Bishop's Transcripts - lacks the civil war and Interregnum period:
1st entry of a Rayner at Charing -
SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Judith      DBL   28 Oct   1619   do John      Charing   BT
RAYNER   Elizabeth      DBL   20 Nov   1631   wife of John   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   05 Nov   1632         Charing   BT

Grom: PHILPOT   Alexander Bride: RAYNER   Elizabeth     Evt: Marr   09 Nov 1635   Charing   BT

SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUSE PLACE   SOURCE
RAINER   Stephen      DBL   12 Nov   1639         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Susanna      DBL   02 May   1664   do Robert   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Robert      DBL   08 Dec   1668         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Thomas      C   16 Jan   1670   Thomas/nwn   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Mary      C   10 Mar   1672   Thomas/Mary   Charing   BT

then Thomas disappears and Robert appears

RAYNER   Elizabeth      C   01 Sep   1673   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   Anne      C   04 Oct   1674   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT
RAYNER   George      DBL   24 Jul   1675         Charing   BT
RAYNER   Richard      C   23 Dec   1677   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

Groom: ODIERNE   John   Bride: RAYNES   Anne   Evt: Marr 30 Sep 1681 Charing BT


SURNAME GVN NAME   EVT   DATE   YEAR   PARENTS/SPOUS   PLACE   SOURCE
RAYNER   Frances      C   28 Oct   1683   Robert/Mary   Charing   BT

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Susan

Hi Susan

I've been going through my notes on Anne Rayner again and I was wondering what DBL stood for in this post you left in 2015. Are they christening dates?

Hope you can help

Matt

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: Zacktyr on Saturday 13 May 17 07:48 BST (UK)

Hi Matt,

DBL signifies the burial date.
C signifies the christening date.

I hope this clarifies the dates.

Sincerely,
Susan

Title: Re: Anne Rayner - Charing 1674
Post by: MattD30 on Saturday 13 May 17 20:42 BST (UK)

Quote from: Zacktyr on Saturday 13 May 17 07:48 BST (UK)

Hi Matt,

DBL signifies the burial date.
C signifies the christening date.

I hope this clarifies the dates.

Sincerely,
Susan

Hi Susan

Thanks for that. I thought it was burial but seeing DBL instead of Bur confused me lol.

I've obtained a couple of wills for the Rayner family now so I'll add the details from these to the post soon.

Matt