RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Carlow => Topic started by: Xotan on Thursday 07 February 13 16:18 GMT (UK)
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Annie and * Lawler were twins and seem to have come from Rathvilly. Sometime in the late(?) 1940s/early 1950s they emigrated to England, and then to Australia. Annie died there about 12 years ago and is buried in Sydney. Her sister, I believe, was still living as of two years ago.
I would like to find out, if possible where Annie is buried and perhaps get a photo of her grave. Carlow seems to be the best place to start the search. Can anyone help with information, please?
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If Annie died in Australia then the Australia board would be the best place to ask about a photo of a gravestone (if one exists) and burial details.
Please remember that we aren't allowed to post details of living or possibly living people. If anyone haas information on Margaret probably best to send it to you by PM (Persoanl Message).
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HI Aghadowey,
Sorry. I didn't make it clear. My interest is in Annie only. I mentioned * only because she was/is a twin. In fact, I have reason to believe that * is also dead. She and Annie are both commemorated (first names only) on a stone in Rathvilly cemetery.
I thought that Carlow was the place to start because I have no information about Annie in Australia, other than that she is buried in Sydney. She may have married and her name may have changed. I reckoned it was more likely that someone in Carlow might have information bearing on this.
If, however, you feel I am stretching the rules, I will happily fall into line with what you suggest. Please advise me.
Xotan/David
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I think you are going to need a bit more information to start a search at either end.... finding death or burial in Sydney could be a problem - especially if she married.
What else do you know about Anne - do you have parents names, her date of birth ?
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Hi Shane - tell me about it! I am working on what little I have, but being in the South of France doesn't make research easy. I was lucky to find the family grave where they are commemorated. But I expect to be in Ireland on my annual pilgrimage to my family's graves and will be doing some on the spot searching in Carlow too. I also have made a contact there who is looking out for me.
I reckon I have too little to go on to bother Australia at this point; and need to find out more in Ireland first so as to have some hope of locating Annie. Annie is family and particularly dear to my partner - hence the interest.
Xotan/David
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If Anne is family and related in some way can you not start the search from what you already know - i.e. her parents, or siblings, dates of birth etc ?
The online Index for NSW BMD (http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm)s covers up to 1962 for marriages, and 1982 for deaths. Not sure what's involved in searching for later records, but if you have parents names and year of birth a match might be possible...
The NSW certs are quite detailed and should show parents names to match against
there are a number of Lawler households (44 people) in the general area on the 1911 census that might be connected
Lawler, Rathvilly DED 1911 (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=law*&exact=&firstname=&county=&townland=&ded=Rathvilly&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&search=Search&sort=firstnameSort&pageSize=100)
Shane
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Hi
Shane, we have been looking through the list to see who would be the most likely line to follow. Quite honestly we are bamboozled. I think that we need to try to nail down some information from people in the family in Ireland. Alas, we will not be going there until September.
In the meanwhile that is not a lot we can do. We will gather the few facts we have together into a folder and use this as an aide memoire to show to family in Carlow. Other than that, given the reluctance we have met to pass information, there is little we can do but to put the matter onto the shelf until we arrive.
We do appreciate the help, and realise that we are starting off with so little information that we are lookiing for a needle in the proverbial haycock.
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It's been a while since last I posted on this thread - a health issue, a long-term guest, some necessary travel, and even a holiday have limited the amount of time I had available.
Still, I have not entirely neglected the matter. I have discovered that some of the information that was gleaned earlier was not quite on the mark (there was confusion over twins, emigration to Australia etc) and this led to pursuing some false trails. There was a breakthrough, though, and this led to getting some documents which steered me back onto the right path.
I can now confirm from documents that Annie Lawler (confirmed NOT Lawlor)
- born 26 July 1920
- died 30 January 1941 in the County Home. This rules out Australia.
- she had worked as a domestic in Carlow.
- is commemorated on a headstone in Rathvilly cemetery
- She was not a twin.
Now another mystery. I cannot be sure she was buried in Rathvilly. There is no record of her death or burial in the parish records. The commemoration on the headstone could be a simple memorial rather than an actual record of burial. The death certificate, of course, does not mention burial.
When I saw the inscription on the stone I thought the matter was finally cracked. Then the news came in that there is no burial record in Rathvilly... I have an inquiry under way with Carlow County Library to see if there is a death notice in the Nationalist paper. I hope, if there is, it may give a location for the burial.
Any other ideas or thoughts as to where to research confirmation, please?
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Looks like I may be talking to myself here, but I could hardly have a better audience than that ;D.
We have met a hitherto unknown first cousin in Co. Wexford on the way to/from the ferry, and have established a good link there, pooling our information. This has resulted in being able to construct a family tree which extends back to the 1850s. Quite a step forward! Of course each discovery leads to more questions. that is the nature of genealogy, I suppose.
One question that is perhaps the most pressing is the burial place of Annie Lawler dob 1920, dod 1941. In my previous posting I mentioned that there is no record in the Parish House, Rathvilly, of her burial in the cemetery there. As she died in Carlow I am now assuming that the burial would have taken place in a cemetery there. The library in Carlow was unable to help me when I queried, as the relevant records were 'under other registers' which the person was unable to lift. I can appreciate that there would be a personal difficulty, but it is not really satisfactory that records should not be available. However, we rely so much on the goodwill of people that I was reluctant to press the matter. The problem is what to do now?
Some information points back towards the County Library: unmarried mothers anf their babies, I have just been informed, were were not allowed to leave the County Home unless they were getting married. Therefore Annie Lawler would have been buried in Saint Mary's Cemetery, Carlow, and not in Rathvilly. But I am unable to find records for Saint Mary's burials on the web. Actually, I am grasping at straws.
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??? I know how you feel about Carlow! There is nothing on line. At the National Library I was able to see the micro film of the parish registers but the state of a lot of the pages many practically blank and faded away. At the Council Library there they do have births and marriages but no deaths and when I went the woman who deals with that kind of thing was very busy so I didn't find out much about burials. I hope to go next year and have more time to stay there and look into that. I don't know where any of my ancestors are buried. Sorry I can't help with your particular case but just felt I had to send you some sympathy there! :) Mind you I am looking into ancestors further back than the 1920s although would like to know where a great grandmother who died in 1927 is buried.
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Hello madPat,
We share a problem, then. If I lived in Ireland perhaps the two of us could help to free up the records that are buried under such heavy tomes.
Actually, the library staff there were models of courtesy and help. So I have no reason in the world to doubt what I was told. The lady in question would undoubtedly have broken her back trying to get at the relevant records if there were a chance she could succeed. And other staff in other agencies there were generous with their time and assistance. So I do not fault the staff. Rather, I think there could be a storage problem. That would cost money to put to right, and money is the one thing that is not available. However, I wonder if there is a legal requirement that burial records should be available, especially for police and judicial reasons? That could be a line to pursue. I would be reluctant to put any member of the staff under pressure on this account. But perhaps the county council might be the people to approach. Any thoughts of who? County Manager? What about freedom of information act? Or has that been scrapped? (Just think of all the money wasted on setting it up! Possibly the likely result would be the imposition of a hefty charge on getting access to any record which should be freely available to any citizen. And even though I live abroad, I still an a citizen!
For the moment I am chipping away in other directions, but will come back to it in the new year in the hope that the heavy tomes will have been moved.
Xotan/David.