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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: firesidecat on Tuesday 12 February 13 13:57 GMT (UK)
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Hi
The marriage certificate for my 3 x great grandparents, Laurence Cassidy(b. abt 1824) & Mary King (b. abt. 1827), at St Mary's Catholic Church, Liverpool in Sept 1847 gives Laurence's father's name as Bryan Cassidy, occupation Cow Keeper. I know from the census that Laurence was born in Ireland and so presumably was his father. However, what I don't know is if Bryan also came over to Liverpool or whether he stayed in Ireland. Also, whilst it doesn't say 'deceased' on the marriage certificate I can't rule out the possiblility that he may have been. Anyway, I can't find him on the census in Liverpool in 1851 but I wonder if someone has access to a Liverpool Trade Directory around 1847 which may list Bryan Cassidy as a Cow Keeper or such like?
Kind regards
Sam
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Sorry, I forgot to mention that Laurence's address at time of marriage was Roberts Building, Eldon Street, Liverpool. I'm clutching at straws but wondered if Bryan might have been a Cow Keeper here?
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Hi Sam,
There was a Bryan Cassidy who was buried at St. Nicholas RC church Copperas Hill Liverpool on 8 Mar 1829 aged 36 (born about 1793) no occupation listed unfortunately. Ancestry have this record as Broayn Cassidy but it's actually Bryan Cassidy. I've submitted the transciption error it will appear at some point in the future with the correct spelling visible as an alternative.
Blue
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Thanks for that Blue, I'll bear that in mind. If it was him (though from what I can gather the name Bryan was quite a popular Irish name, so possibly not my Bryan) then perhaps an earlier Directory would be more appropriate. Kind regards, Sam
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There's no mention of Bryan or Laurence in any of the Liverpool directories that I use. Have a look at this thread about Liverpool Cowkeepers:-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=372723.0
Blue
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Very interesting thread, thanks for that Blue. And thanks for checking in your directories. Maybe he did remain in Ireland, though perhaps not all Cow Keepers would have been listed in directories anyway.
Kind regards
Sam
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There's a good chance your Bryan was the man buried in Liverpool in 1829.
Blue
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Hi Blue
The thing is, I had originally thought they had come across from Ireland later on. In the 1851 census, Lawrence and Mary (both b. Ireland) have a son John (b. Ireland) aged 2 and daughter Ann (b. Liverpool) aged 1. All later census records also give Johns place of birth as Ireland. From this information I had assumed that Lawrence had come to Liverpool in the year between John and Ann's birth. Which, as well as being at the height of the famine, was not an unreasonable assumption. However, then I stumbled across Lawrence and Mary's marriage in Liverpool in 1847. So now I am left wondering well how come John was born in Ireland around 1848 if his parents married in Liverpool in 1847? There were a few John Cassidy's born in Liverpool around that time and so I guess I need to check them out. If I find that in fact John was born in Liverpool and not Ireland then I would feel more confident that in fact they had come to Liverpool sooner than I had been led to believe and therefore that the Bryan buried in Liverpool in 1829 was the right one. Sorry if that was rather long winded :-) but that should at least explain why I have reservations. Kind regards, Sam
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For some strange reason that 1847 RC marriage is not available there should be two versions of the marriage the certificate that you must have and the record at St. Mary's.
The census record may be wrong about the child's Irish birth it does happen. There really should be RC baptisms for the children in Liverpool but I can't find any. Can you give us all the details from the marriage certificate from 1847? Maybe that will prompt more people on here to help on this thread.
Blue
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I can only find a possible baptism for Ann Cassidy maybe John was born in Ireland and the family went back and forth between Liverpool and Ireland. What was Lawrence's occupation on the marriage certificate? He was an Ostler in 1851 usually defined as "a stableman at an inn". If he had previously been involved in the transport of horses that might explain his going back to Ireland.
Ann Cassidy or as it appears on Ancestry "Anne Cassedy" was born on 10 Jan 1850 and baptised at St. Anthony's RC church on 13 Jan 1850.
Blue
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Hi Blue
The baptism you've found for Ann is the right one I'm sure as her younger brothers were also baptised at St Anthony's. Lawrence's occupation was a labourer for the most part.
I had considered that they might have moved back and forth but given that they were probably poor and I can't imagine them wanting to head back to Ireland unless absolutely necessary (I believe that some were made by the poor law unions to go back), particularly at the height of the famine.
Anyway, this is the information I have on Lawrence Cassidy and his family:
Married 23 Sep 1847 in St Mary’s Catholic Church, Liverpool
Lawrence Cassidy aged 22, Bachelor, Labourer
Address: Roberts Building, Eldon Street, Liverpool
Father: Bryan Cassidy, Cow Keeper
Mary King aged 20, Spinster
Address: Drury(?) Lane, Liverpool
Father: John King, Servant
Witnesses: Michael Daley and Bridget Kelly
Children of Lawrence & Mary (there may have been others?):
John Cassidy b. Abt. 1848 Ireland (according to Census info)
Ann Cassidy b. 20 Jan 1850, 9 Court, Saltney Street, Liverpool
Thomas Cassidy b. 19 Jul 1854, 6 Green Street, Liverpool
Bap. 30 Jul 1854 St Anthony’s RC church Liverpool
Godparents: Thomas Winstanley and Mary Handwick
Andrew Cassidy b. 30 Jan 1857 5Green Street, Liverpool
Bap. 8 Feb 1857 St Anthony’s RC church Liverpool
Godparents: Andrew Cassidy and Mary Ann Kirwan
Occupation:
Labourer (1847 marriage cert.)
Labourer (1850 Ann’s birth certificate)
Ostler (1851 census)
Car Driver (1854 Thomas’s birth certificate)
Labourer (1857 Andrew’s birth certificate)
Labourer (1857 death certificate)
Labourer [Deceased] (1868 John's marriage certificate)
Labourer (1873 Thomas’s marriage certificate)
Age/Place of birth:
1847: 22 Therefore b. abt. 1825 (marriage cert.)
1851: 27 / Ireland - Therefore b. abt. 1824 (census)
1857: 35 Therefore b. abt. 1822 (death cert.)
1857: 33 Therefore b. abt. 1824 (burial reg.)
Died 21 Feb 1857 in North Hospital, Liverpool (aged 35)
Buried 26 Feb 1857 in St Anthony’s Catholic Church, Liverpool (aged 33)
Cause of death: Accidentally killed
Daily Post: Wednesday 25 Feb 1857
The following inquests were held before the borough coroner yesterday :-On the body of Lawrence Cassidy, a labourer. About four weeks ago the deceased was at work on board the steamer Belbeck, when a heavy piece of iron accidentally fell on him, and he received such injuries as caused his death in the Northern Hospital on Monday. Verdict accordingly.
Liverpool Mercury: Wed 25 Feb 1857
An inquest was held yesterday upon Lawrence Cassidy, 35 years of age, a labourer, who resided at No.5 Green street, Vauxhall road. On Monday the 26th of last month, the deceased was at work on board the steamer Balbec, in the Huskisson dock, when a bundle of sheet iron, about three quarters of a hundred weight, slipped out of the slings and fell upon him, from the effects of which he died in the Northern hospital on Saturday last night. Verdict: accidental death.
Inquest Register: No. 108: 24th Feb 1857, Lawrence Cassidy, N.Hospital, died on 21 Feb, age 35, Acc.killed.
Mary remarried 4 Jan 1859 at St Mary's, Edmund Street, Liverpool
2nd husband: John Mc Gowan
Thanks for all your help with this Blue.
Kind regards
Sam
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Hi Sam
You certainly have all the right family members there. The Poor Law Removals involved people who were receiving support from the parish. People who would usually be in the Workhouse. I doubt Lawrence and Mary were that needy as they had married in 1847 in Liverpool during one of the worst years of the famine. If Lawrence had been unable or couldn't find work I don't think he would have started a family.
My Brady family first appear on record in Liverpool in 1848 I can't say how the famine impacted on them. They had occupations in 1848 and 1851 so I hope they were not too badly off. There are spaces between the ages of their children so some of the children appear to have died in Ireland or on the way to Liverpool.
Blue
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Hi Blue
Do you know where in Ireland your family were from or were they like mine and just say Ireland on the census?!
Given that I have a missing baptism for John in 1848 (that might suggest that the census records are correct and he was indeed born in Ireland) and a marriage of his parents Lawrence and Mary in 1847 in Liverpool (which is odd and, as you said, the records of St Mary's on Ancestry don't show it), I guess I still need to somehow find out where in Ireland they were from so that I can try and establish if the Bryan who was buried in 1829 was Lawrence's father or not. The saga continues..........
I have also spotted a Brian Cassidy buried in Liverpool St Mary's in 1848 aged 20 - a brother of Lawrence's perhaps?
Kind regards
Sam
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My Bradys were from County Cavan fortunately their county of origin was mentioned on later Census records here is my Brady page:-
http://hollandfamilyhistory.weebly.com/brady.html
The surname cassidy is most common in the north of Ireland (Ulster) and fairly common in the east of Ireland (Leinster) here is a clan website:-
http://www.cassidyclan.org/index.htm
Here are some Bryan Cassidys from the Tithe Applotment Books 1823-37 the order is name, townland, parish, county and year. Most of these locations are in Ulster:-
Bryan Cassidy, Seskin, Killeenavarra, Monaghan, 1825
Bryan Cassidy, Gubaveeny, Killinagh, Cavan, 1833
Bryan Cassidy, Monamuck, Boystown, Wicklow, 1833
Bryan Cassidy, Clegernagh, Taughboyne, Roscommon, 1833
Bryan Cassidy, Mohercregg, Kiltubbrid, Leitrim, 1833
Bryan Cassidy, ?, Inver, Donegal, 1834
Brian Cassidy, Barron, Killinagh, Cavan, 1833
Bryan Cassedy, Portacloghan, Drumlane, Cavan, 1829
Blue
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Hi Blue
I love your website!
Thanks for the info on Bryan Cassidys and the Cassidy clan and for your help generally.
Kind regards
Sam
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Here is more information about the surname, history and location of households:-
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/index.cfm?fuseaction=History&Surname=Cassidy&UserID=
Blue
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Thanks Blue, that looks like a good website. Kind regards, Sam
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My Great great Great grandfather was Lawrence Cassidy my mothers maiden name was Elizabeth Cassidy her father was John his father was James his father was John and his father was Lawrence
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Eldon Street - off Vauxhall Road -
St Anthony Church is in Vauxhall area
any relation ??
Baptism: 14 Jun 1807 St Anthony, Vauxhall, Lancashire, England
John Cassidy - son of Brian Cassidy & Alice
Born: 10 Jun 1807
Godparents: Matthew Bann; Ann Agan
Baptised by: J. Blot
......................................................... :) :)