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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: MattH on Friday 29 March 13 15:11 GMT (UK)
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I am researching an individual by the name of Thomas Morley. He was born in Kimberley on 5 November 1819 and baptized in Greasley on 24 November 1823. His parents were John Morley and Ann Aldridge, who were married in Basford on 10 June 1811 (source: Phillimore's). Thomas is the only child that I know of from this marriage.
My ultimate goal here is to try and find the parentage of John Morley and Ann Aldridge.
According to a biography of Thomas, as told by his son Joshua, Ann died when Thomas was four years old, which would be around 1823. Then, when Thomas was young, his father left him and was never heard from again. However, the biography states that he then lived with his grandmother without mentioning the name.
Is anyone familiar with legal guardianship resources available for Nottinghamshire during this era? I think that if Thomas lived with his grandmother, then she must be mentioned somewhere in some transference of guardianship papers. (Then again, I am not an expert on the logistics of guardianship for England. I am only assuming that there had to have been some sort of legal proceedings to allow her to have guardianship.)
My thinking here is that, if I have access to the name of this grandmother, then I will be able to at least determine one of the parents for either John or Ann.
Another potential resource for information are the poor and working house records. The biography continues to say that Thomas would be so hungry that he would eat the burned potato peelings from the garbage heaps behind houses. So maybe Thomas and the grandmother might have eventually received some parochial assistance. Are there any good and accessible resources for the poor and working house records?
Any help here will be greatly appreciated!
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His parents were John Morley and Ann Aldridge, who were married in Basford on 10 June 1811 (source: Phillimore's). Thomas is the only child that I know of from this marriage.
There were other children from that marriage.
Greasley baptisms - Children of John & Ann Morley, Frame Work Knitter of Kimberley
27 Dec 1817 - Sarah
27 Dec 1817 - Mary
24 Nov 1823 - Jos.
24 Nov 1823 - Thos.
12 Oct 1826 - Millicent
As for the guardianship question, informal adoptions and guardianships were often not documented, especially when it was a transfer of guardianship within a family. There was probably no legal proceedings and no paper trail.
If Thomas or his grandmother were receiving relief from the parish, you are more likely to find a paper trail for that. It would be worth contacting (or visiting if possible) the Nottinghamshire Archives as they will most likely hold any records, and will be able to best advise you.
Alexander
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I am researching an individual by the name of Thomas Morley. He was born in Kimberley on 5 November 1819 and baptized in Greasley on 24 November 1823. His parents were John Morley and Ann Aldridge, who were married in Basford on 10 June 1811 (source: Phillimore's). Thomas is the only child that I know of from this marriage.
My ultimate goal here is to try and find the parentage of John Morley and Ann Aldridge.
According to a biography of Thomas, as told by his son Joshua, Ann died when Thomas was four years old, which would be around 1823. Then, when Thomas was young, his father left him and was never heard from again. However, the biography states that he then lived with his grandmother without mentioning the name.
Do you have details of Joshua Morley?
I cannot find him as a son of Thomas b Kimberley?
Also if mother Ann died c.1823 -there were children beiing baptised after this year - although it is possible for children to be baptised after mother's death
Suz
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Alexander: thank you for the information. I will contact the Nottinghamshire Archives and see what sort of information they have available. I will also look in the microfilm catalog at the Family History Library in Utah to see if they have any parochial relief records. I know they have some for Kent as I have used them in the past.
Suz: Joshua was born in the USA, which is why you probably can't find him in UK records. Looking at my other records, I found that it has been recorded that Ann Aldridge died in 1829, not 1823. Apparently she was buried in Greasley on 15 April 1829. I haven't been able to verify that information, but given that other children were at least baptized following 1823, it makes sense to me.
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I have Thomas Morley b. Kimberley
1851 with wife Elizabeth and children John and Ann
1861 with wife Elizabeth and children Ann, Elizabeth & Thomas
1871with much younger wife marley? and son Thomas
when did Thomas go to US? When was Joshua born ??
Suz
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Suz: You are correct. Thomas married (1) Elizabeth Culley in the 1840s and then after she died, he married (2) Mary Oldfield in 1864 (a twenty-three-year difference in age between them, too!). Joshua comes from this second marriage. He was born in 1877 in the state of Utah. Thomas and his family immigrated to the US in 1872 on the ship "Nevada."
Also, I have that in 1841, Thomas was living with James Morley, who I presume is a brother to him. They were living in Radford.
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Yes I found the 1841 - will see if there is a baptism for James
Sorry I asked so many questions - I was trying to piece the family together and so find grandparents but I couldn't find Joshua - have found him now in 1880 US census - with other siblings - seems like Thomas was "lively" for his age.
I assume Thomas went to US with the Latter day Saints ( I believe there has been a (so called) "Mormon" church a few miles from Kimberley longer than there has been the Church in Utah.
Suz
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Yes I found the 1841 - will see if there is a baptism for James
Sorry I asked so many questions - I was trying to piece the family together and so find grandparents but I couldn't find Joshua - have found him now in 1880 US census - with other siblings - seems like Thomas was "lively" for his age.
I assume Thomas went to US with the Latter day Saints ( I believe there has been a (so called) "Mormon" church a few miles from Kimberley longer than there has been the Church in Utah.
duplicate post!!! Sorry!
Suz
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I wonder if this is John's Baptism - if so Thomas' grandparents would be Thomas and Sarah
Baptism
18 Oct 1789
Greasley notts
John Morley
parents Thomas & Sarah
Also wondering if Ann Aldridge is Ann Aldred (often the names are muddled)
Baptism
29 Dec 1795
Greasley Notts
Ann Aldred
parents John & Ann
of course this is guesswork -but may be worth investigating
also in Kellys Nottingham 1828 listed under "Butchers" are Ann Morley Coalpit Lane
John Morley Dark Shambles
Suz
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Suz: thanks for sharing this information. I was looking through Phillimore's Marriages and saw that there is a Thomas Morley was who married to Mary Chambers in Greasley on 7 February 1780. So that would be a possible match.
I know from other researchers, they have listed Ann's surname in different ways, almost as if it weren't Aldridge to begin with. So, I'm inclined to a more open opinion unless there was an Ann Aldridge that matches for the given time frame.
(By the way, I do not have access to the baptism records like you do. The Phillimore records are online and I have been using websites such as FindMyPast and Ancestry, which haven't been too terribly helpful in this particular case, so I'm really grateful to you for bringing those baptisms to my attention.) :)
I also wonder that why, if both of these parents were married in Greasley, John Morley and Ann Aldridge were married in Basford? I'm not keen on the geography--are they relatively close and could therefore present a conceivable reason why the marriage took place there?
Lastly, I have also been researching a bit in the UK Census records. Although I haven't been able to physically see the pages, I have found a John Morley in the 1841 and 1851 censuses. In 1841, he is living in Southwell, which is close by. In 1851, he is living in Radford. While I'm not sure if this is the John Morley, the year of birth is eerily close in both cases (1789). I'll have to look at these census records (especially the latter) to see where the location of birth is marked. Plus, if he's working as a frame work knitter, then that would almost certainly qualify him as a match.
I haven't, however, been able to locate a death for this John Morley at anytime after 1851. He doesn't appear to show up in the 1861 census index.
I appreciate your assistance and information. I'll keep this post updated as I dig a little deeper.
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Hi
Basford is only a few miles from Kimberley/Greasley
Basford is also a registration district - which Greasley & Kimberley are within.
Maybe they married in Basford as that was where Ann was living at the time -usually marriages take place in the bride's parish- or maybe Ann was from Basford - no definate baptism has been found to confirm where she was born.
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I have just been looking on An*****y at various public member trees - information varies considerably
On some trees Thomas has the middle name James - others Daniel - and some no middle name - there is even a photograph of Thomas
some give d.o.b. as 5 Nov 1820 others 24 Nov 1819 (possibly one is d.o.birth other d.o.baptism
Some have Ann's name as Alroyd
will see what I can find
Suz
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there is a baptism
Hannnah Aldred 28 Dec 1797 parents Samuel/Mary
Greasley Notts
There are a lot of Aldred baptisms at greasley - no Aldridge or Alroyd
It looks like some of the trees have just been copied instead of researched individually.
I am very near to Greasley and could look at the parish records - but it won't be for a couple of weeks (we are having major work done at home so cannot get out during the day )
Suz
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Suz: thank you for the information. You can see why I would be a bit apprehensive in accepting any information from sourceless trees!
I was able to look at the 1841 and 1851 census records and here's what I found:
1841[residence: Edwinstone Parish, Southwell]
John Morley, age 52 (1789), born in Nottinghamshire, living with his daughter(?) Eliza (age 37 [1804]) and Charles Foster and their six children. Occupation: Farmer.
1851 [residence: Bloom Sqaure, Radford]
John Morley, age 62 (1789), born in Greasley, married to Mary (age 55), son-in-law William Wardle (age 21...it has a U in the marital status column, which means unmarried. He might be a son from Mary's previous marriage and the relationship was misinterpreted?). Occupation: Frame Work Knitter. Mary (born 1796) is listed as being born in Kimberley, as is the son-in-law.
To be quite honest, the latter census seems to be more of a match to the John Morley in question. I'll have to do more research to see when 1851 John married Mary, and where exactly William Wardle falls into the picture. I will get post my findings here.
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Hi, my name is Ted M. Thomas Morley was my ggrandfather. His son Joshua Morley was my grandfather. I never knew my grandfather wrote a biography about his father. I would love to know how I might attain a copy of this biography. I have information and dates about their ancestors.