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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Sutherland => Topic started by: MonicaL on Saturday 30 March 13 19:39 GMT (UK)
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This is a new and continuation thread for a long running thread here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,45412.0.html
Please post new details, request and additions here.
Monica
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Is there a reason why my ancestors from Durness do not appear on the Parish Register.
They are in all the Census returns and BMD's
Andy Smed did check and they couldn't be found
wini
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wini, they may have belonged to the Free Church, which maintained its own register. The Free Church was a break-away movement, referred to as "the Disruption", which occured in 1843.
I have a copy of a transcription of it's Durness register by Angi Lamb. If you give me some names and dates, I will take a look.
IanB
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Ian, I am sure you are correct, the descendents of the family were all Free Church.
John Gunn b. Lanark never been able to find his birth his age changed constantly in the records, died 1894 age 87 approx
Married Isabella Ross 1835
Children\Mary, Peter, Thomas, Margaret, Dolina, John
Isabella died and he remarried
Betsy Gunn 1851
Children
Isabella, Catherine, Helen or Ellen, Euphemia, William my Great Grandfather.
Poor Isabella is described as Imbecile, or lunatic although her family looked after her until she died
in1908 age 56
will be interesting to see if you find their names among the free church records
Thanks
wini
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wini, I can only see three entries:
Marriage: Nov 14, 1851 - John Gunn, widower,Leathad (Laid) & Bessie Gunn, Portnacon
Baptism: Nov 3, 1852 - Isabella to John Gunn, Leathad, & Bessie Gunn. Born July 15.
Baptism: JUl 14, 1845 - Dolina to John Gunn, Leathad, & Isabella Ross
The register goes from Jun 30, 1843 to May 1956 so perhaps their other children were born after 1856.
The mystery continues.
Ian
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Thanks Ian,
At least I now know why they didn't appear in the Durness Parish Register.
I was unaware the Free church was excluded.
wini
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wini, they may have belonged to the Free Church, which maintained its own register. The Free Church was a break-away movement, referred to as "the Disruption", which occured in 1843.
I have a copy of a transcription of it's Durness register by Angi Lamb. If you give me some names and dates, I will take a look.
IanB
The transcript I made of baptisms and marriages can be found at https://sites.google.com/site/rupparti/family-history/durness-fc
regards
Angi
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...The register goes from Jun 30, 1843 to May 1956 so perhaps their other children were born after 1856.
The mystery continues.
Ian
I stopped transcribing at 1856 as a) the statutory register starts at 1855 and b) I ran out of time in the archives!
Angi
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Thanks Angi
wini
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There's a Euphemia Gunn in Balnakiel Cemetery, who died in 1947 aged 84, which gives a birthdate of around 1863. She was married to John MacKay, who died in 1956 aged 91
Her stone also commemorates Elizabeth MacKay of Glasgow, who died in 1964 aged 72 (probably a daughter). Is this the right family?
Had I known you were looking I could have taken a photo of the grave this morning
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The inscription reads "In loving memory of our dear Mother Effie Gunn beloved Wife of John Mackay died 21st Oct 1947 aged 84 years. And the said John Mackay who died 16th Feb 1956 aged 91 years. Also their Daughter Bessie Ingram who died 3rd Dec 1964 aged 72 years. Cremated at the Western Crematorium Glasgow Erected by Husband & family." I have a photo taken 10 years ago if you want to PM me with your email address.
I took photos of 297 Balnakeil stones. I missed 15 and need to go back some time!
Angi
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Angi
Is that the same set Graham Bruce has? I know he has most grave photographs on his PC, but many of the flat stones have deteriorated badly in the last few years. Unfortunately, the ones I want are flat ones at ground level that are now utterly illegible. I reckon my great great great grandfather Donald Campbell MacHearlish MacAllister must be interred close to the other family graves, but short of digging up the bones for DNA testing I'll never know
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I don't know. I did pass copies onto Christine at countysutherland website. I didn't at the time have the software to put a copyright notice on them.
Angi
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Hi djct59,
If your 3 x G.G's name was Donald Campbell, and the other names you quote were patromymics, he might be the Donald Campbell that was married to Johan Morrison and died Jan 23, 1917 and is recorded on MI #202 at Balnakeil.
This was one of the 200+ photographed by Angi and recorded on Chris Stokes' web site, CountySutherland .If you Google under these two names the, site will come up There is a small fee to become a member.
IanB
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The Donald Campbell you refer to was my grandfather's brother - his only son's widow is still alive, aged around 92 - I saw her boarding the bus for Tongue yesterday.
The Donald I seek was a soldier in the Reay Fencibles, born in 1765, and dying in the 19th Century. His son Charles (1813-74) has a prominent Hood gravestone close to the entrance on the Balnakiel House side, and his eldest son Angus mhor (1843-78, Donald's father) has a flat stone a matter of feet away from it. There are two illegible worn flat stones immediately in front of his grave, which night have been family graves.
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Hi, I am very new to this, but found this thread fascinating. Thanks to you who are doing all this work. I have traced back definitively to George MacKay B 1788 D 3/26/1809 Married to Elspeth Elizabeth Sutherland. His father, I believe, is John Mackay of Durness born 1763, but it gets a little vague here. Downstream of this is Hugh Morison (or Morrison) MacKay (1839-1897) who was married to Mary Macleod(1834-1906) I hope I haven't confused anyone. Does anyone have any info on these people? I am apparently my generations keeper of the records(which I love)
Thanks in advance!
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You need to move this to Part 2 down the page.....
I can't see a George McKay born to a John in 1788. there is a George McKay son of Murdoch McKay the miller in Badillahamhise, at the north-eastern end of Loch Eriboll, and his wife Ann Morrison listed on 28th October that year. Could he be the right man?
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Thanks so much for your prompt response!! Here's what I know for sure... My GG is Elizabeth Adelaide MacKay (1867-1938) who came to USA from Prince Edward Island. Her parents, I'm pretty sure were Hugh and Mary (MacLeod)MacKay ( some list Mary as a MacCoy). I found George and Elspeth Elizabeth Sutherland on Hugh's tree. George emigrated from Scotland to Nova Scotia. His DOB is listed roughly as 1788.( Death, as I said earlier was3/26/1809) Elspeth I have from Dorroch Sutherlandshire. Her parents were John Sutherland B 1741 and Christy(?) B 1745. Am I throwing too much at you??? I think I lose trail after George
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Hi, I am very new to this, but found this thread fascinating. Thanks to you who are doing all this work. I have traced back definitively to George MacKay B 1788 D 3/26/1809 Married to Elspeth Elizabeth Sutherland. His father, I believe, is John Mackay of Durness born 1763, but it gets a little vague here. Downstream of this is Hugh Morison (or Morrison) MacKay (1839-1897) who was married to Mary Macleod(1834-1906) I hope I haven't confused anyone. Does anyone have any info on these people? I am apparently my generations keeper of the records(which I love)
Thanks in advance!
Reply:
The Durness Parish Register commenced in 1764 and presumably continued until civil registration of Births Deaths & Marriages became mandatory in 1855. However the transcript by Dr. Hew Morrison only covers the years 1764 - 1814 and might only cover 2 or 3 generations of your family at most. Do you know the name of George Mackay's mother? What documentation have you seen which confirms George's DOB as 1788? Where was he born/baptised. Nothing shows up in the transcript.
IanB
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Hi Wanda,
The moderator closed this thread and started a new one : "Durness Parish Register - Part 2. See below.
IanB
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The transcript I made of baptisms and marriages can be found at https://sites.google.com/site/rupparti/family-history/durness-fc
regards
Angi
[/quote]
Angi
I note that site isn't working. Have you moved it?
Jeni Simpson
Aotearoa/New Zealand
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Ian, thanks for the tip. How do I get to part 2?? This is all new to me so assume I know nothing!
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Just browsing rootschat and noticed this thread. :)
I think this is what you are looking for Wanda:
Ian, thanks for the tip. How do I get to part 2?? This is all new to me so assume I know nothing!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=641690.msg5068048;topicseen#new
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Thanks so much!
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Thanks so much for your prompt response!! Here's what I know for sure... My GG is Elizabeth Adelaide MacKay (1867-1938) who came to USA from Prince Edward Island. Her parents, I'm pretty sure were Hugh and Mary (MacLeod)MacKay ( some list Mary as a MacCoy). I found George and Elspeth Elizabeth Sutherland on Hugh's tree. George emigrated from Scotland to Nova Scotia. His DOB is listed roughly as 1788.( Death, as I said earlier was3/26/1809) Elspeth I have from Dorroch Sutherlandshire. Her parents were John Sutherland B 1741 and Christy(?) B 1745. Am I throwing too much at you??? I think I lose trail after George
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There is obviously something wrong with it, but you can still access Angi's Free Kirk extracts by clicking on the links/buttons.
IanB
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Angi and any other helpers
This is outwith the register but in the 1911 Census, John Mackay, Effie isn't mentioned and his wife is given as Sophia. It is the correct family as the children are the same in the 1901 Census.
Robert's birth in 1909 gives Effie as his mother and John as Father. Effie was still alive until 1947
I have a copy of Bessy Mackay's birth in 1892 but on the 1901 Census there is only a Jessy the correct age.
Is this Census errors or am I just totally confused with all the Mackay's and Gunns in Durness
wini
p.s. all my information is from Scotlands People
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I suppose it is possible that "Effie", "Euphemia" and "Sophia" are one and the same. Effie could have been her family/pet name, or perhaps the census-taker misheard.
Since Bessy died in in 1964, perhaps she was living somewhere else on the census date? In my family, two grandchildren appear on a census living with their grandparents while their parents and siblings are recorded as living elsewhere.
IanB
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Thanks Ian,
I will see if I can find her elsewhere.
I need to get back to my Sutherland lot.
wini
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For WandaM: As IanB says, there are no parish records for Durness prior to November 1764, and the number of verifiable dates of birth prior to that date can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Anyone claiming a d.o.b. in 1763 is either an incurable optimist or has misread the parish records.
Having said that, I have found a George McKay born in 1789 that might be the one you're looking for. On 7th October there is recorded the birth in Balnakiel of one George to John McKay alias Macenicallisterroy (the son of Kenneth, the son of red-haired Alastair), and an unmarried woman named Margaret Sinclair. From her surname, she is virtually certain to have come from Caithness.
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Re: George Mackay
I missed that one, djct, and he does appear to be a likely candidate. However, I think that the father's patronymic might be "son of John; the son of red-haired Alistair", and here is my reasoning:
- "Mac en" is a very common element in many of the patronymics in the transcript. There are not that many Kenneths in the register, and they appear to have been given the patronymic "Mac cennich" i.e. mac Coinneach. Son of John = mac Iain/Eoin = mac En
- There is an entry in the transcript: 1765 Baptisms #17 "John Mackay, alias Macalisterroy, in Uaibeg, Hugh". I think this Hugh may be the younger brother of Wanda's John. See Marriages for 1788 #15 'Hugh Mackay, alias Macenicalisterroy, in Uabeg ... Isabel Dingwall. I think this was the same Hugh Mackay.
IanB
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Good point Ian
MacEan Mhic Alasdair Ruadh does mac more sense - I'd speed-read it as MacEnich
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Or even "make" more sense - too many Macs spoil the syntax
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Wini,
If you woud like a copy of Angi's transcription of the Free Church baptisms and marriages, please send me your email address by PM and I will send you a pdf scan.
IanB
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If John and Margaret Sinclair are George's parents, then I need to reeval the info I have on George. I have him as passing away 1809, but his son (Hugh Morrison Mackay) was born in 1839. George moved to Nova Scotia then eventually Prince Edward Island.
I feel like this is confusing for me, and I really appreciate your patience. You all are way more experienced at this, so I am grateful for all you assistance.
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Was Hugh born in Sutherland? There is a birth for a Hugh McKay, son of John, listed in the old parish records of Durness on 2nd July 1841
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Thanks DJCT, for your help. Hugh's dad was George.( Mom was Elizabeth Sutherland) I am trying to check out the Durness records for when George had Hugh, but my eyes got tired!!!!George was born in Durness area, and moved to Nova Scotia. I'm starting to doubt myself!!!
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@DJCT the Hugh you refer to may be George's brother?/
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Hi Wanda,
Have you come across this posting which appears to refer to your family?
http://genforum.genealogy.com/mackay/messages/468.html
The poster thinks that George Mackay and Elizabeth Sutherland came from Edrachilles, the next parish.
IanB
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IanB, that post was from my Aunt, who has since passed away. I am trying to pick up the trail that she left!
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There's a marriage of a George McKay from Embo and an Elizabeth Sutherland in Dornoch on 26th March 1809 listed on Scotlandspeople - not sure if that helps. There are no parental or other details in the entry, and the names are far from rare, so this may not be the right family.
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There is also a James Mackay baptised in Dornoch 28 Feb 1818 and an Alexander baptised in Dornoch 22 October 1819, parents George Mackay and Elizabeth Sutherland. (both fairly common names in the county of Sutherland)
Wanda, do you have anything which confirms which parish* they lived in? Why do you think your aunt mentioned Eddrachillis? Most "church" registrations were made in the register of the parish that the event took place.
* at the time of your interest, parishes of the Church of Scotland in the County of Sutherland were: Durness; Tongue; Farr; Eddrachillis; Assynt; Creich; Lairg; Rogart; Clyne; Kildonan; Golspie; & Dornoch. Prior to 1855, each kept its own register.
Also, would you please double-check the date of death for George: you say 1809 but also say that his son, Hugh, was born 1839?
Ian
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Great questions, Ian. I just got ahold of my Aunt's research, and realized that George MacKay was married 3/28/1809 not died then. He actually died in 1876. His wife, Elspeth Elizabeth was born 1790 My Aunt wrote:
Born about 1790, and married in Eddrachilles, Sutherlandshire, Scotland around 1815, to Elizabeth Sutherland. Family came to Shelburne Nova Scotia, about 1836 later to Gladstone, PEI.
This was confirmed by someone in Canada.
She never got further up the tree than these 2 on the MacKay side.
On the Sutherland side Elspeth's parents were John Sutherland (born1741) and Christy (born 1745) in Goldspie, Sutherland. They were married 7/15/1766. My Aunt is way smarter than I am, so I am adjusting what I need to. This is so interesting, I am becoming glued to my computer!
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Hi Wanda,
I realize that it is very tempting to try to pursue a line of research that has been started by someone else, especially a relative. However, I can tell you from experience that this method can result in much time being spent following false trails that are based on "hearsay". I think you should consider starting again from a confirmed starting point, i.e. a fact for which you have confirmed documentation.
What documentation is there in your aunt's file? Are there any copies of post-1855 certificates of birth, death, or marriage? Any census extracts? (from what you say, the family appears to have left Scotland before its first census in 1851, but what about Nova Scotia? or PEI?) Is there any confirmation of you aunts assertion that the family lived in the Parish of Eddrachillis? - which Town?
Where did George die in 1876? You have quoted an exact date for the marriage of George and Elizabeth: where did that come from?
I recognize that I am suggesting you retrogress but it is essential to start from something you know for a fact.
Ian
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Hi Ian, I reluctantly agree with you!(reluctantly because I'm a little bit lazy) I didn't see any documentation, although some things would say something like, "confirmed with joe Smith" So I will keep the info that concurs with my own. I think the next step is to reach out to Nova Scotia and Pei, and trace back that way. I really value your input, Ian, so thanks.
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Wanda: At the risk of echoing IanB, you need to take any pre-1760 birth information with a pinch of salt, as unless it relates to an aristocrat with a long pedigree, it's likely to involve wishful thinking.
I'm afraid to say that a search on Scotlandspeople in the parish records of Golspie for a marriage of a John Sutherland between 1760 and 1770 produces only one result, that being on 13th Match 1767, when a John Sutherland marries a Katherine Gordon. Widening the search to the whole county also fails to locate another marriage in that decade for a John Sutherland. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you really need to have a solid piece of evidence such as a verified birth of marriage record.
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I have George MacKay and Elizabeth Sutherland in my tree. They were the parents of my gggrandmother Jennie Sutherland MacKay and old family research records her as being born 1833 in Bethcoel, Scotland. She married Abraham Daly of Shelburne, NS and they settled in Beach Point, PEI. Four of her sisters came to PEI and Hugh Morrison MacKay must have been a brother.
There are MacKay's listed as passengers on the Barque Ellen that landed in Pictou, Nova Scotia in 1848 and they sailed from Loch Laxford. There's a George MacKay and Elspeth MacKay listed not sure if it's them though.
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Hi, would you be able to do lookups for the following durness families please, I got these names and dates off ancestry and would like to confirm them if possible and spouse names and marriage dates.
George Mcleod b 1776 married barbra in 1805 and possible jannet Mckay in 1823.
his father Angus McLeod b 1745, his father william Mcleod b1720, his father hugh Mcleod b 1690.
Catherine Mackay b 1765, her father John MacKay b 1726 (married ann murray), his father john ian mackay b1700, his father hugh mackay b1662. also any parents of the ann murrayb 1738 mentioned above.
many thanks
Leah
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The Durness Parish Register (of the Church of Scotland) commenced in 1764 and would have continued until the commencement of civil registrations in 1856. The transcript of that register by Dr. Hew Morrison covers the years 1764 to 1814.
I checked my copy of the transcript and could not find any of the events you describe*. When you say you "got these names and dates off ancestry|", I assume you mean they were on someone's published family tree. If so, I totally agree with your trying to verify the information because many "trees" are not reliable. Without confirmation, I would be very skeptical about names and dates earlier than 1764 because there are very few places that these could be recorded.
* one possible exception is entry #23 in 1765 which has been cut off in the photocopying process. Also, there is a baptism entry in 1776 involving a George MacLeod but he ( a piper) is shown as the father of John.
Good luck,
IanB
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My copy has Angus MacLeod Bain (fair haired) of Clashneach, a long destroyed township between Keodale and Loch Borralie, as the father of George MacLeod, who was baptised on 26th March 1766. Names of spouses were not recorded in Durness parish records until July 1779.
It's perhaps important to avoid confusion between this Angus MacLeod MacNish Bain (thus his father was also called Angus) and the Angus MacLeod MacUilleam MacHustian (son of William the son of Hugh) in Balvoolich, two miles further north. He also had a son George who was christened on 28th April 1776. There is a third Angus MacLeod, a smith and son of John MacLeod, but he was in Ballinloch at the north end of Loch Croispol where the Craft Village now stands.
"Your" Angus had moved to Achunahanait, overlooking the Kyle of Durness, by the time his son Angus was christened on 26th September 1776.
I have to agree with IanB that there is no trace of George marrying anyone in Durness parish in 1805.
As far as I can see, the Murrays were "incomers" to Rispond in the 18th century, and thus are not known by patronymics in the parish records as they hadn't been there long enough.
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Hi again, thanks for the reply, would you be able to see if you have a Donald McLeod born abt 1809 marrying Isabella Sutherland and did they have a son George b 1834? They are listed as living in tongue.
Also can you find anything on Isabella sutherlands family line? She may have born 1814, father may have been William Sutherland b 1782.
Many thanks for this, we have been wanting to know more about these families for a long time.
Cheers
Leah
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Are you still looking at Durness? If so...
There is an Isabella Sutherland listed as christened on 26th March 1814, daughter of Angus Sutherland and Barbara MacKay. She had an elder brother named John Thomson Sutherland born in 1812.
In the marriage entry of 25th December 1811 Angus is listed as "a young man living in his father's house in Saingomore (sic)" and Barbara is listed as daughter of Robert MacKay of Sango.
There are eight children listed as born to an Angus Sutherland of Sango between 1768 and 1782, with Christian Fraser listed as his wife. Unfortunately, none of them is called Angus. the only feasible Barbara MacKay would seem to be the one listed on 21st September 1784, daughter of Robert MacKay alias Miller, Macenmacuileammiller (son of of John the son of William known as Miller) and Margaret Morison. he's listed as a tenant in Keodale rather than Sango, but that's a distance of barely three miles so a move is far from implausible. "Morison", it should be noted, is a correction in the 1784 entry only - in the other two birth entries for this family Margaret's birth surname is listed as "MacKay".
That's as much as I can find. As ianB has already pointed out, precise dates of birth from years before there was any local record keeping are likely to be fanciful in the extreme
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Leah,
Tempting as it might be to make use of others' trees etc., I can tell you it often leads to a waste of time. One site that I do not recommend has a name something like JandJroots. This is the work of two sisters and was a tremendous undertaking. I have not looked at most of it - only the entries that concerned my family, or purported to do so - and I have no doubt that much of it is correct; but certainly not all. In the case of my family, it showed ancestors farther back than I had been able to go, even using patronymics. I emailed the site and asked the source of their information, and was told "church records". At that point, I decided not to use the site again because there are no church records going back that far.They appear to have been creative.
Painstaking as it may seem, the best, most-fruitful methodology is to start on a firm foundation, i.e. some officially-documented event, and work backwards from there. There is a site that you may wish to explore if you have not already done so. It is called ScotlandsPeople and is a pay-per-view site, but if you "get all your ducks in a row" before you use it you can limit the use of your pre-paid credits. It is certainly worth Googling it and taking a look. The Mormon church's IGI is also helpful.
Good luck in your search.
Ian
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Hi, I am trying to locate a place in the parish of Durness that appears frequently in the parish register called Uaibeg. If anyone can tell me where Uaibeg is then that would be a great help, even better if someone could pinpoint it on a map. Thanks.
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Uamh is Gaelic for "cave", and beag is Gaelic for "small". From the births and marriages listed in the parish register it's clearly somewhere in the central third of the parish, neither west of the Kyle of Durness, nor east of Loch Eriboll. While it's not, as you know, marked on any map online, I would surmise that it was either on the wide expanse of flat land to the south of Smoo Cave, or on the high ground above and to the west of the cave. Interestingly, Smoo does not appear as a township name in the parish register.
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Uamh is Gaelic for "cave", and beag is Gaelic for "small". From the births and marriages listed in the parish register it's clearly somewhere in the central third of the parish, neither west of the Kyle of Durness, nor east of Loch Eriboll. While it's not, as you know, marked on any map online, I would surmise that it was either on the wide expanse of flat land to the south of Smoo Cave, or on the high ground above and to the west of the cave. Interestingly, Smoo does not appear as a township name in the parish register.
Thanks for the Gaelic translations. As it happens on that, I have also located a place on the coast called "Bagh Uamh Dhadhaidh" with nearby "Loch Uamh Dhadhaidh". Could these be the possible location of Uaibeg ? There was apparently once a village there.
See: http://canmore.org.uk/site/86200/bagh-uaigneach
and: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/dblock/GB-244000-963000/page/1 ("The old fishing village on Bagh Uamh Dhadhaidh (D) is long deserted and a few houses in ruins...."
On the old 1st Edition Six Inch OS Map it appears simply as "Bagh Uaigneach".
It is also very close to where my ancestor who was potentially born there, had her definite first son in Ceannabeinne.
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Have you looked here to see if it is mentioned?
http://new.durness.org
Curious - I suspect there is a family connected to this place. Did they by chance emigrate somewhere in the early 1800's?
Don
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Munro84: Given the size of the population of Uaibeg in the late 18th/early 19th century I would safely rule out it being a major township between Rispond and Port Chamill. The soil there would only support a community of a few houses, and evidence suggests Uaibeg was bigger than that. Based upon the geography I ruled out the side of that Loch as the site of a large community; there was also a township at Lochshian barely 400 yards away. From Ceannabeine to Smoo Cave is a matter of some fifteen or twenty minutes on foot.
The best person to ask is teacher/historian Graham Bruce, but I believe he left the village in 2013
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Munro84: Given the size of the population of Uaibeg in the late 18th/early 19th century I would safely rule out it being a major township between Rispond and Port Chamill. The soil there would only support a community of a few houses, and evidence suggests Uaibeg was bigger than that. Based upon the geography I ruled out the side of that Loch as the site of a large community; there was also a township at Lochshian barely 400 yards away. From Ceannabeine to Smoo Cave is a matter of some fifteen or twenty minutes on foot.
The best person to ask is teacher/historian Graham Bruce, but I believe he left the village in 2013
Hang on just a minute, according to your previous post above you ruled out that it was: "neither west of the Kyle of Durness, nor east of Loch Eriboll" - and the place I have identified complies with that. As for ruling it out as a major township, yes I would agree with that - the 1st Edition Six Inch OS Map shows only two houses there and that is from the mid-19th century.
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Sorry, maybe I didn't make this clear.
I started by ruling out anywhere on the Parph (Capeside) and anywhere on the West Moine (west of Eriboll). That still left a fairly large area.
Next I looked at the village records to see from the number of births whether this was likely to be a large or a small township, and concluded it was likely to be one of the larger ones. Based upon that, I therefore ruled out Bagh Uamh Dhadhaidh as too small to have had a community with this number of births and marriages.
Thirdly, I looked to see if the term "Smoo", now used for the cave, appears as a township name. It doesn't.
Having been there last week it is clear that the area around the cave was occupied and cultivated over 200 years ago, and remains populated to the present day.
My conclusion was therefore that the area uphill of Smoo was a more plausible situation for this township. Finally, I looked at the marriage records. These disclose that the community had its own weaver (Richard MacKay, married 29th March 1798) and that most marriages were to persons living in the more central townships (Balnakeil,Cnockbreac, Balvoolich). That's not wholly conclusive, as Richard's wife was from Achiemore on the Capeside, but my conclusion remains that the most plausible site for this settlement is in the vicinity of Smoo Cave
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I posted part of this a long time ago but still not sure of the couple
John Sutherland M Isabella Campbell ?????? When and where
Had one daughter that I know of she is my 3rd grt grandmother
Margaret born1791 d 10.8.1876 Helmsdale M ( 1 .4.1811 )
to James Gordon b 1778 Helmsdale d 3.11.1876
both died at Gartymore
Would like to get more family to John and Isabella if possible
Elizabeth
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Unfortunately, there is no listing for a marriage of a John Sutherland and an Isabella Campbell anywhere in the County of Sutherland between 1775 and 1790
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Thank you so much for your quick reply
Looks like I will have to keep searching
Elizabeth
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Update on previous: I have contacted Graham Bruce (who I have had previous contact with) and he has confirmed that Uaibeg is on the north-west shore of Loch Croispol. I have also found that on the 1888 first edition 6 inch to one mile OS map that it is shown there as "Uibig".
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Hi, I am looking for the following two settlements that appear in the Durness parish register, like where exactly they are located.
The first is a place called Batnahachlash.
The second, may be obvious is "Dalnaheru of Strathmore". Obviously in the Strath of Strathmore, but I can't find it on a map. An alternative name for it is Dalnaharve but I can't find it on an OS map.
Any help much appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike Munro.
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According to the entry in the parish register on 20th September 1778, Dalnaheru includes "Dornadilla Tower", now known as Dun Dornaigil Broch, by Altnacaillich in the foothills of Ben Hope.
Batnahachlash is much harder to locate given its relative rarity in the parish records. There is, though, a tiny inshore loch called Loch Bacach close to the southern end of Loch Hope and in the centre of some cultivable land five miles north of Dun Dornaigil, but definitely in Strathmore. That's my best guess, but there might be someone on here more familiar with the cleared townships on the unclassified road that runs by the side of Loch Hope
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According to the entry in the parish register on 20th September 1778, Dalnaheru includes "Dornadilla Tower", now known as Dun Dornaigil Broch, by Altnacaillich in the foothills of Ben Hope.
Batnahachlash is much harder to locate given its relative rarity in the parish records. There is, though, a tiny inshore loch called Loch Bacach close to the southern end of Loch Hope and in the centre of some cultivable land five miles north of Dun Dornaigil, but definitely in Strathmore. That's my best guess, but there might be someone on here more familiar with the cleared townships on the unclassified road that runs by the side of Loch Hope
Thanks for your help.
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Ian Grimble, in his book "The World of Rob Donn", spells it Bad na h-achlais, and says it was a short distance north of Muisel near the shore of Loch Hope. (This is where Rob Donn and wife, Janet Mackay set up home when they married.)
Ian
Mike, are you descended from Rob Donn?
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Ian Grimble, in his book "The World of Rob Donn", spells it Bad na h-achlais, and says it was a short distance north of Muisel near the shore of Loch Hope. (This is where Rob Donn and wife, Janet Mackay set up home when they married.)
Ian
Mike, are you descended from Rob Donn?
Hi Ian. Thanks very much for pointing me in the right direction and no, I am not descended from Rob Donn.
The reason for my enquiries are as follows:
In the Durness parish register there are the following two baptisms in 1768 and 1770 which are obviously the same father, Donald Mackay in Uaibeg, who himself is given the same Gaelic alias on both occasions:
15 June 1768: Donald Mackay, alias Macuillam Macnishvicdhonil in Uaibeg, George.
7 October 1770: Donald Mackay, alias Macuilleam macnish macdhonil in Uaibeg, Barbara.
So the Gaelic alias for the father Donald Mackay in both above entries, although spelt slightly differently, both translate as son of William, son of Angus, son of Donald
Moving on there are two baptism entries in 1769 that I would like to call into question:
1 May 1769: Donald Mackay, alias Macuillam Macnish in Batnahachlash, John.
Here noting that the above Gaelic alias translates as son of William, son of Angus
15 May 1769: Donald Mackay, alias Macuillam, in Dalnaheru of Strathmore, Christian.
Here noting that the above Gaelic alias translates as son of William
So what I am calling into question is that obviously the above entries from 1768 and 1770 are a brother and sister, but could either of the above 1769 entries also be a sibling, perhaps even a half brother or sister from a different mother but with the same Donald Mackay father - this based on the Gaelic aliases.
The reason I am looking into this is because potentially the above mentioned Barbara born in 1770 could be my ancestor who was from Durness, and I know that my ancestor Barbara Mackay had a brother called John Mackay.
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Ian Grimble, in his book "The World of Rob Donn", spells it Bad na h-achlais, and says it was a short distance north of Muisel near the shore of Loch Hope. (This is where Rob Donn and wife, Janet Mackay set up home when they married.)
Ian
Mike, are you descended from Rob Donn?
Hi Ian. Thanks very much for pointing me in the right direction and no, I am not descended from Rob Donn.
The reason for my enquiries are as follows:
In the Durness parish register there are the following two baptisms in 1768 and 1770 which are obviously the same father, Donald Mackay in Uaibeg, who himself is given the same Gaelic alias on both occasions:
15 June 1768: Donald Mackay, alias Macuillam Macnishvicdhonil in Uaibeg, George.
7 October 1770: Donald Mackay, alias Macuilleam macnish macdhonil in Uaibeg, Barbara.
So the Gaelic alias for the father Donald Mackay in both above entries, although spelt slightly differently, both translate as son of William, son of Angus, son of Donald They are both also in Uaibeg.
Moving on there are two baptism entries in 1769 that I would like to call into question:
1 May 1769: Donald Mackay, alias Macuillam Macnish in Batnahachlash, John.
Here noting that the above Gaelic alias translates as son of William, son of Angus
15 May 1769: Donald Mackay, alias Macuillam, in Dalnaheru of Strathmore, Christian.
Here noting that the above Gaelic alias translates as son of William
So what I am calling into question is that obviously the above entries from 1768 and 1770 are a brother and sister, but could either of the above 1769 entries also be a sibling, perhaps even a half brother or sister from a different mother but with the same Donald Mackay father - this based on the Gaelic aliases.
The reason I am looking into this is because potentially the above mentioned Barbara born in 1770 could be my ancestor who was from Durness, and I know that my ancestor Barbara Mackay had a brother called John Mackay.
Update: I have found on a modern OS map a place called "Bad nah-Achlaise" which is on the opposite side of the Strathmore River to "Muiseal".
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Well, it's established that Uaibeg was close to Balnakeil and Ballinloch. To travel from the southern end of Loch Hope to there by car will take the best part of an hour; they're about 25 miles distant and on fairly rudimentary roads. In the eighteenth century it would be a journey of two full days on foot.
While it's clearly possible for a shepherd or farmer to move from place to place, none of the entries in the parish records describe the birth as "n.b.l.w.", so we must presume that each Donald was regarded by the Minister as lawfully married. For a tenant in Uaibeg to move all the way to Strathmore (or vice versa) with his whole family, when he would be tenant of a very small plot of farmland, would be wholly unlikely. Once you became a tenant you stayed there for several years.
Your other option of two relationships is also unlikely as the same Minister would be registering the births. Of the 119 references to Donald MacKay in the parish records, three appear to have had a father called William.
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I agree that it is improbable that the Donald Mackay in the 1768 and 1770 entries is the same person as either of the 1769 entries. The Donald Mackay in the 18 Jan 1765 (Muisel) entry is likely the same person as the May 1 1769 entry.
As you know, Mackay was a very common surname in the parish. (I have seen estimates of over 30% of the population) And Donald, William, Angus, and John were as well. In my own case, I am still uncertain about the relationship of some men with only 2-generation patronymics, those 2 being identical to the first 2 of ancestors having 3-generation patronymics.
Frustrating as it undoubtedly is, I suggest you try another approach. Do you know when your Barbara died? Who she married?
Ian
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IanB/Munro84: I don't see any marriage in the parish records between 1788 and 1810 that's a good match for the Barbara MacKay, daughter of Donald in Uaibeg, born in 1770. There are 66 births and marriages where the woman's name is Barbara MacKay, so my suspicion is that "your" Barbara is not the one born in Uaibeg in 1770.
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Thanks both of you for your replies, I agree largely with what you say, except that I know from studying the parish registers including my own family that families not only moved around the parish, but moved from parish to parish often, and sometimes even to different counties.
My Barbara Mackay was wife of Alexander Munro, there is no parish marriage record for them, and the first record of them is in 1791 at the baptism of their first son James Munro in Ceanabeinne, Durness, in which Barbara is described as the "wife" of Alexander.
However, by 1796 they had moved to Armadale, parish of Farr where they had another son called James, with the first having died young. In Armadale they had a total of 6 sons and one daughter between 1796 and 1812.
Barbara Mckay is found aged 75 on the 1841 census still in Armadale. Ages on the census having been rounded down to a multiple of five means that she could have been aged between 75 and 79 and thus born between 1762 and 1766. However, I have reason to believe that the age on the 1841 census is not only wrong but too high: Firstly because I have found in the Sutherland Papers a petition from my ancestor Barbara Munro (nee Mackay) dated September 1837 in which she describes herself as being in the "66th year of her age". This would surely mean that she had reached 65 years old and was approaching 66 years old, thus meaning that she was born in 1771 or 1772. However, if by saying she was in the "66th year of her age" she meant that she had actually reached 66 then she would have been born in about 1770 - 1771 - which leads me to the above mentioned parish record in Uaibeg, Durness in 1770.
Also, if I was to accept the age for her on the 1841 census that indicated that she was born between 1762 and 1766 then that would mean that she would have been aged between 46 and 50 when she gave birth to her last child in Armadale in 1812 - highly unlikely. I think the age on the petition of 1837 is much more likely to be accurate.
I am assuming that Barbara was born in the parish of Durness based on the fact that that is where she and Alexander Munro had their first child Jame Munro in 1791. Further to this I have found with genealogy that usually the man of the family has traveled from elsewhere, married and settled down somewhere other than where he was born, in most instances. But with the women they usually stayed put, married and had kids near to where they were born. I am not saying that was always the case but often was. I have information that Alexander Munro removed from his "native county" of Ross-shire in 1784.
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Based on what you say, I suspect that Barbara MacKay might not in fact have been born in Durness.
It's necessary to bear in mind just how common "MacKay" was as a surname throughout the whole of north-west Sutherland.
What we seem to know is -
1. Your Alexander Munro originated from Ross-shire
2. He was a carpenter and moved around in the late 18th century before settling in Farr.
3. While there's a birth recorded in Durness in September 1791, there's no corresponding marriage. This might suggest that Alexander and Barbara had been married in another parish before their arrival.
4. Neither Alexander nor Barbara has a patronymic in the parish records. This might suggest that neither was a local whose family had been established for generations. OTOH, there's nothing in the parish records to say they were "incomers", although those from outside the parish were often indicated as such.
5. There's no reason why a woman from Uaibeg couldn't be living in Ceannabeinne, as you can walk from one to the other in under two hours, but if she was local you would expect her marriage to be recorded.
Women did sometimes have to follow their husbands; there are examples in the Durness records of couples from Skye settling in the parish, so on balance I'd suggest that, unless there's more compelling evidence, your ancestor/relative and Barbara from Uaibeg are not the same person.
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Based on what you say, I suspect that Barbara MacKay might not in fact have been born in Durness.
It's necessary to bear in mind just how common "MacKay" was as a surname throughout the whole of north-west Sutherland.
What we seem to know is -
1. Your Alexander Munro originated from Ross-shire
2. He was a carpenter and moved around in the late 18th century before settling in Farr.
3. While there's a birth recorded in Durness in September 1791, there's no corresponding marriage. This might suggest that Alexander and Barbara had been married in another parish before their arrival.
4. Neither Alexander nor Barbara has a patronymic in the parish records. This might suggest that neither was a local whose family had been established for generations. OTOH, there's nothing in the parish records to say they were "incomers", although those from outside the parish were often indicated as such.
5. There's no reason why a woman from Uaibeg couldn't be living in Ceannabeinne, as you can walk from one to the other in under two hours, but if she was local you would expect her marriage to be recorded.
Women did sometimes have to follow their husbands; there are examples in the Durness records of couples from Skye settling in the parish, so on balance I'd suggest that, unless there's more compelling evidence, your ancestor/relative and Barbara from Uaibeg are not the same person.
You know, I agree with everything you say and I even have a feeling that my Barbara Mackay might have been from the parish of Tongue, for which I think the parish registers only date back to 1789 anyway:
Alexander Munro and Barbara Mackay's third son Donald Munro (b.1802 in Armadale, parish of Farr) married Georgina Mackay who is recorded as having been his cousin. Donald and Georgina married in the parish of Tongue in 1826 and while the parish marriage record says that he was from Armadale, it also says that Georgina Mackay was from the village of Bratongue which is in the parish Tongue. So I am assuming that Georgina was from the parish of Tongue based on her location given as Braetongue in the Tongue parish register for her marriage of 1826. And if she was Donald's cousin and from Tongue, then her auntie would have been Donald's mother, Barbara Mackay, and possibly also from the parish of Tongue.
Lol, I guess I will never know. There's an interesting story regarding the Tongue parish register, although according to most sources it dates back to 1789. According to the New Statistical Account of Scotland (1834), page 175: the Tongue parish register of births and marriages was was started in 1775, but in 1797 the session clerk who became deranged was found one morning distributing pieces of paper on the graves in an attempt to raise an army of the dead. The papers were the parish register, torn so as to be completely useless.
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Hi All
I have got stuck on my family tree John Bethune born abt 1792 married a Catherine Macleod born abt 1794 they had a son Angus who moved from strath in the isle of Skye to North uist and married a Mary Mackenzie. I was wondering if any one has come across this family
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There are only four persons named Bethune in the Durness Parish Register: Margaret, married to Donald Campbell, both from Skye, Flora, married to Roderick MacLeod, James From Kintail, and Alexander, a white fisher in Keodale and later Aultan married to Barbara MacKay. He is listed as from the parish of Kincardine so was presumably not a Skye man.
None match your missing relative, I'm afraid.
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Thank you for the information I know his son Angus Was born in starth isle of Skye but was beginning to think myself that John didn't come from Skye
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Hi Uist:
I must admit to being puzzled by your thinking there might be a connection with your ancestors listed in the Durness, Sutherland parish register. Certainly there were people from the Western Isles/ Hebrides who emigrated to the Parish of Durness but they were relatively few. I am just concerned that you may inadvertently be searching in the wrong list.
Perhaps I am missing something?
Ian
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Hi
in the north uist croft books it states that Angus Beaton was born in strath Isle of Skye and his father was John Bethune his mother was Catherine Macleod which is on Angus's death certificate. Although Angus was known as Beaton not Bethune
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Hi Uist:
There were/are lots of "Straths" in Scotland. Strath, an anglicisation of the Gaelic Srasth, means a wide valley. The Strath of Skye, is a district of the Isle of Skye, which, although in the Inner Hebrides, is in the County of Inverness and enquiries about former residents are usually directed to the "Inverness" list.
Please be assured that I am trying to be helpful.
Ian
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Hi Ian
Thank you will have a look on the Inverness post
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Question: would an entry in the Durness parish register in 1764 that refers to the place as "Saingo" be referring to Sangobeg or Sangomore ?
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"Saingo" appears 104 times in the 1764-1814 records. On 25 occasions it's specified as "Saingobeg". Given that Sangomore was a far larger settlement and far closer to Durine, Balvoolich, Keodale, Croispol and Borley, my conclusion has always been that "Saingo" alone refers to Sangomore.
The first mention of Saingobeg is in 1793 and the first reference to Saingomore is in 1802.
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Hi Munro; I assume your query relates to your subsequent thread concerning Christian Names. Like djct, my 'default" assumption is that Saingo refers to Sangomor; but, in the absence of any substantiation, it can only be an assumption and I wouldn't rely upon it to try to prove something.
BTW, I cannot offer any useful suggestions regarding your "Christian Name' mystery.
Ian
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Hi Munro; I assume your query relates to your subsequent thread concerning Christian Names. Like djct, my 'default" assumption is that Saingo refers to Sangomor; but, in the absence of any substantiation, it can only be an assumption and I wouldn't rely upon it to try to prove something.
BTW, I cannot offer any useful suggestions regarding your "Christian Name' mystery.
Ian
Thanks Ian.
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Regarding Bethune in Durness.
Durness Marriage Register 1837 - "Augt. 18 - At Acharn Alex. Gunn House Carpenter from Caithness now at Eriboll and Fairley Bethune dau. of Aler Bethune Kainer Acharn"
Durness Baptism Register 1839 - "Cathrine dau to Donald Ross an unmarried young man Island Hoan and Fairley Bethune wife of Alex Gunn House Carpenter now at Smoo the child was born in August 1837 - Dond Ross ten Hoan and wife were sponsors"
Clarifying details - Donald Hugh Ross (1780-1853) from Borley and his wife Isobel Calder (1789-1879) from Strathmore were crofters on Island Hoan, raised ten children born 1812 to 1832, and in addition their unmarried son Donald fathered a daughter named Catherine in 1837 with Fairley Bethune who married Alex Gunn.
Also, a search of ScotlandsPeople for a spouse of either gender named Bethune in any parish in Sutherland from 1800 to 1840 turns up 15 weddings with a Bethune as either bride or groom.
Repeating the search for births in all Sutherland parishes returns 32 Bethune babies.
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Trying to untangle some births and to clarify which (if any) are from the marriage of Donald Calder and Janet Mackay.
MARRIAGE
"At Durness Donald Calder in Mussel married to Janet Mackay alias nin alister in Luibain both in Strathmore the Eleventh day of August 1783"
BAPTISMS
"Donald Down, alias Calder, Murdoch Down's son, and Janet Mackay, alias nin alister, living in Dalnaheru, Barbara, 26 August 1784"
"Donald Calder, alias macmhorachie Down, tenent in Inverhope, and his wife Janet Mackay, alias nin Alister, John, 23 April 1787"
"Donald Calder, alias macmhorachiedhuin, tenent in Strathmore, and his wife Janet Mackay, alias nin Alister, had Isobel baptized, 29 November 1789"
Donald Calder, alias macmhorachiedhuin, tenent in Strathmore, and his wife Janet Mackay, alias nin Alister, John, 3 April 1791
My connection is through Isobel Calder, who married Donald Hugh Ross, who is a nephew of my 3x GGF John Ross (1775-1857), who was born in Borley, married Robina Mackenzie (1795-1862) in Eddrachillis, and together John and Robina raised ten children in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
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Inverhope and Dalnaheru are both at the northern end of Strathmore, where Loch Hope cuts south through the Moine.
Mhuiseil, or "Mussel" is on the east side of Loch Hope north of the Dun Dornaigil Broch
Macmorachie means "son of Murdoch", so all four births are to Donald donn Calder, the son of Murdoch, in Strathmore.
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djct59 - thanks very much.
Donald Calder, son of Murdoch Down, married Janet Mackay 11 August 1783. Is this Donald Calder related to Rob Donn?
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It's likely. Rob Donn was born in Altnacaillich in Strathmore in 1714, so a grandson living in Strathmore, marrying in 1783 and fathering a child born in 1784 is wholly plausible.
I saw an article online a few years ago that referred to the Bard's thirteen children without naming them - https://durness.wixsite.com/durnessnew/copy-of-population-of-durness
Murdoch is not officially linked to Rob Donn in the parish records so cannot be verified with 100% certainty, but his age and location certainly suggests he's one of the thirteen
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djct59 - I stumbled upon a text that references thirteen children of Rob Donn Calder -- the 44 page "Life of Rob Donn" by Hew Morrison that is part of his 1899 book Songs and Poems in the Gaelic Language by Rob Donn.
on page xxxi
In 1769, while at Saingo, his youngest son was baptized and named George. His family is stated to have consisted of thirteen, who "were mostly all spared to rise round him." Of these, eight -- five sons and three daughters -- are known to have attained manhood and womanhood, but little is known of some of them beyond that fact. His eldest son was James, who, in 1774, married Jean Stewart in Balnaceil. ... His second son, John, enlisted in Macleod's Highlanders and was killed in the Battle of Arnee in 1782. Hugh lived in Crosple for some time, Colin was in employment about Balnaceil, and George is not mentioned in the record after his baptism. His daughters were -- Isobel, married to John Mackay; Mary, married to Donald Mackay; and Christian, married (1) to Hugh Murray and (2) John Morrison.
Hew's narrative is a bit rambling. After a four page digression into the the surname debate Calder v Mackay, Hew returnes to Rob's kids and starts narrating baptism and marriage details from the Parish Register of Durness. This narration is limited to the eight Calders mentioned earlier in Hew's narrative (above). In this narrative Hew neglects to mention the Murchoch Down listed in the baptisms of the three daughters of Donald Calder a possible granddaughters of Rob Donn Calder, identified as "Murdoch Down's son" or as "alias macmhorachiedhuin" as discussed earlier in this thread.
Using keyword searches for Donn, Doun, Down, Dhuin, Duin, and Calder I found 42 baptisms in PRD, starting with "Hugh Calder, alias Down, in Balamhulich, christened Mary - 31 Mar 1765" and ending with "Alexander Morison, alias macuilam macrory, volunteer, late in Cerrauc, now in Ardaloch, and his wife Lucie Mackay, daur. of John Mackay and Isobel Doun, George - 30 June 1804."
This week I ordered the Ian Grimble book to see what he says.
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Where in Durness Parish was the settlement known as Achucharn/Achuchoran/Achuchairn? And also, was this the same place or are they separate places?
I apologize if I have already asked this question. I thought I had asked this before but I've searched the RootsChat pages without finding it.
These quotes are from Hew Morrison's transcription "Parish Register of Durness" and use his spellings
Baptisms
1773 - William MacEorish in Achucharn, Alexander, 9 Dec.
1795 - Donald Ross, alias Machustianmacenicoun, in Achuchoran, and . . . Ann Dunn, William, 12 Oct.
1797 - Donald Ross, herdman in Achuchorain, and . . . Ann Dunn, James, 19 Sept.
1800 - Donald Ross, alias Machustianmaceanicoun, in Achuchoran, and. . . Ann Dunn, Hugh, 5 Mar.
Marriages
1788 - Kenneth MacCulloch in Islandhall . . . Barbara Ross in Achuchoran, 5 Feb.
1794 - Donald Ross, a single young man in Achuchoran . . . Ann Dunn in Achuchairn, 31 Dec.
1799 - Angus MacLeod, alias Macneilicnishicloid, in Clashneach . . . Janet Ross nin Hustian Macenicoun in Achuchoran, 10 Dec.
Also, on one monument inscription in Balnakeil:
HUGH ROSS / Who died at Achuchoran / on the 26th July 1799 / aged 68 years
Thanks very much!
[wr]
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Achuchoran is known as Grudie now. It is on the west side of the Dionard, just south of the opening into the Kyle of Durness. It is only accessible by a footbridge or on a quad bike.
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djct59 - thanks very much.
I see it now on the OS map (screenshot attached) on the alluvial plain at the confluence of the Grudie River as it flows into the River Dionard.
Next question is the location of Crosple in these baptisms from Hew Morrison:
1791 - Kenneth MacCulloch, tenent in Crosple, and . . . Barbara Ross, Marion, 16 Feb.
1796 - Kenneth MacCulloch, little tenent in Crosple, and . . . Barbara Ross, John, 29 Jan.
1797 - Kenneth MacCulloch, a little farmer in Crosple, and . . . Barbara Ross, Roderick, 18 May
1799 - Kenneth MacCulloch, little farmer in Crosple, and . . . Barbara Ross, Joanna, 14 Aug
1801 - Kenneth MacCulloch in Crosple and . . . Barbara Ross, William, 13 Oct.
And also in this monument inscription at Balnakeil as transcribed by Angi Lamb:
In loving memory of Kenneth MACCULLOCH tenant at Crospoll who died 12th June 1857 aged 74 years. And of his spouse Barbara ROSS who died 12th January 1878 aged 95 years. Erected 1857 by their eldest son Hugh MACCULLOCH Callao South America
With best regards,
[wr]
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The settlement of Croispol was in a small sheltered valley to the west of Loch Croispol - a few of the foundations of the houses can still be seen, and there was clearly room for about ten homes in the township.
The Bronze age hut circles by the loch are on the exposed hillock overlooking the 18th century village. They're not to easy to spot now, but they offered a clear view of the area.
The schoolhouse at Loch Croispol is at the southern end of the loch where it meets a small stream.
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Achuchoran is known as Grudie now. It is on the west side of the Dionard, just south of the opening into the Kyle of Durness. It is only accessible by a footbridge or on a quad bike.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC3663
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The settlement of Croispol was in a small sheltered valley to the west of Loch Croispol - a few of the foundations of the houses can still be seen, and there was clearly room for about ten homes in the township.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC3867
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The ruined houses in the valley
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djct59 - thanks very much.
What's funny is that I'm familiar with the Loch Croispol school house because [1] my ancestors who lived at Borley attended it, and also [2] because I've read the 2010 report on the school by Issie MacPhail under the GUARD project, but I did not associate "Croispol" with "Crosple", lol.
In "The School at Loch Croispol 1730-1861" MacPhail writes: "The year before William Findlater became minister of Durness, 1811, there was a new schoolmaster appointed to the parish school. He was a young man, William Ross, aged only 16 who had most likely been a pupil at the school as he was almost certainly William Ross who was baptised in Durness on 12 October 1795 son of Donald Ross, Auchuchoran (between Sarsgrum and Grudie on the east side of the Kyle of Durness), and Ann Dunn..." (this is on page 95 of the report)
The descendants of this particular William Ross, who are my cousins, were surprised at the inaccurate suggestion that their ancestor William, born in Durness Parish to parents Donald Ross and Ann Dunn, who was also a young man that emigrated in 1815 from Scotland to Nova Scotia with his parents and siblings, and also who then married, raised a family, and was buried in Pictou County, Nova Scotia, had been mis-identified in the Loch Croispol School report by MacPhail. For the record, here's a quick link to the grave of my cousin William Ross (1795-1862) in Sunny Brae Cemetery, Pictou County, Nova Scotia,
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/61820687/william-ross
Also, attached is a screen shot from the map page at Highland Historic Environment Record.
Thanks again!
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djct59 - btw the photo is amazing. thanks very much for posting it.
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Thanks. The thatched roof was still on the school when my Uncle John (b. 1921) was a boy.
I'm not sure where Graham Bruce obtained the information that William Ross (b.1795) became schoolmaster and precentor in his teens. If he was the William Ross from Cnocbreac born in 1787 he would have been 22 when he led the church singing, 24 when he became schoolmaster and then studied at Aberdeen 1814-16.
Your identification of William as born 1795 and dying in Nova Scotia seems pretty conclusive.
Here is a close-up of one of the Croispol houses
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Regarding my original post - the goal of my question was to understand where in the parish my cousins the MacCullochs were raised; that is, the family of Kenneth MacCulloch (1763-1835) and Barbara Ross (1768-1858), who are buried at Balnakeil. I had no idea Crosple was in such plain sight. To finish the thread, Hugh MacCulloch (1793-1842) was one of these MacCullochs born and raised in Crosple in Durness Parish. Hugh was a merchant. There is a historic monument located in the Port of Los Angeles in California that honors the first known commercial structure in the port, which was built in 1823 by the merchant firm McCulloch & Hartnell. This was Hugh MacCulloch from Crosple. When he died Hugh was buried in the Glasgow Necropolis. He left behind a huge archive of merchant correspondence, another testament to the quality of the parish school at Loch Croispol.
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Wilros - you say Hugh died in 1842, but the gravestone in Balnakeil says "In loving memory of Kenneth MACCULLOCH tenant at Crospoll who died 12th June 1837 aged 74 years. And of his spouse Barbara ROSS who died 12th January 1858 aged 95 years. Erected 1857 by their eldest son Hugh MACCULLOCH Callao South America"
The stone is flat and very faded - was it perhaps erected in 1837?
I have difficulty tracing Hugh and Barbara's descendants. Barbara's death in 1858 is witnessed by her son-in-law Robert Sutherland of Sangomore, but I cannot trace a marriage that fits for him. Likewise none of Hugh's siblings seem to leave any trace in the Durness parish records. They all seem to have died or moved away.
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djct59 - excellent and complicated questions!
It is a bit before dawn here in Northern California, and a work day for me, so I'll get started on some details, but will likely have to stop before I get all the pieces in place.
Let's start with the dates of birth and death for Kenneth MacCulloch. I do not have solid source citations for either, so I use working placeholder values that are circumstantial.
His wife Barbara Ross has a clear baptism in the Durness Parish Register (DPR) in 1768, so that's not a placeholder value. Kenneth does not have a baptism, therefore I assume he was born before November 1764.
Kenneth and Barbara have a marriage registration in DPR on 5 February 1788. This is followed by 7 baptisms of MacCulloch children in the DPR (James, Marion, Hugh, John, Roderick, Joanna, and William), but then there is a fascinating baptism in Thurso, Caithness, image attached. This is an open area of investigation that raises many questions, but for simplicity I let its details stand at face value. Here's how I transcribe the Thurso baptism of their son James MacCulloch: "1804 April 8 - James l. s. [legal son] to Kinneth McCulloch Day Labourer in Town & Barbara Ross Wit: [witnesses] Hugh Morrison & Patrick Dun".
Patrick Dunn is throughout the DPR as an incomer to the parish from Peterhead who married Janet Mackay and together they brought 1 marriage and 8 baptisms into the DPR.
Patrick Brown a single Man in Keoldale had a child baptized called Ann 24th November 1775 but not in lawful Marriage.
Patrick Brown from Peterhead in Keoldale married Janet Mackay alias nin Neil in Keoldale, 4 March 1777.
Patrick Brown from Peterhead, a little tenent in Buailavig, Keoldale, James, 8 October 1777.
Patrick Dunn, alias Brown, tenent in Buailbhig of Keoldale, Jean, 10 January 1779.
Peter Dunn, formerly Patrick Brown, tenent in Keoldale, and his wife Jannet Mackay, alias nin Neil, Neil, 16 March 1780.
Patrick Dunn, alias Brown, tenent in Grudie, and his wife Janet Mackay, alias nin Neil, Jean, 6 May 1782.
Patrick Dunn, alias Brown, tenent in Grudie, and his wife Janet Mackay, alias nin neilicemich, Fairly, 25 November 1784.
Peter Brown, alias Dunn (from Peterhead), tenent in Grudie, and his wife Ann Mackay, alias nin Neil, Peter, 20 February 1787.
Peter Dunn, alias Brown, tenant in Achairn and his wife Ann Mackay, alias nin Neilmacemish, Margaret, 6 April 1789.
That's Peter or Patrick Dunn or Brown and Janet or Ann Mackay nin Neil (with variations). Seems a bit of a rascal with the meandering names, but I suspect he was an endearing companion with a dependable gift for improvisational word play. I've traced a few but not all of their kids. Their oldest Ann Dunn is relevant here because she married Donald Ross (1771-1862) a younger brother of Barbara Ross and an older brother of John Ross (1775-1857) my 3rd GGF.
Returning to the MacCulloch thread in Thurso, baptism witness Patrick Dunn was likely also a traveling companion day laborer in Thurso from Durness as the father-in-law of Barbara's brother Donald Ross. The DPR locates these folks in Keoldale, Grudie, Crosple, Auchchoran, etc. so it seems coherent.
Hugh Morrison I assume to be Kenneth MacCulloch's brother-in-law, married to Mary MacCulloch. This couple are also the parents of the Hugh Morrison who later married his cousin Joanna MacCulloch ("1818 - Oct. 7 - At the Manse Hugh Morrison Shep'd Glassbhinn and Johana McCulloch Saingobeg.")
At this point I have to pause, leave for work, and continue the thread later.
Regarding day labourers from Durness in Thurso civil and parish records, this is the only one I've found, but I suspect there are more.
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djct59,
Regarding Robert Sutherland, this one is easy. Barbara's death registration has a clerical error, Robert is the grandson-in-law of Barbara, the husband of Barbara's granddaughter Hughina Morrison.
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djct59,
forgot to mention that barbara's civil death registration has other errors.
she was not 92 years old when she died.
died 11 july 1858 (civil record)
baptised 25 september 1768 (DPR)
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that's 89 years, 9 months, and 16 days (from baptism)
her exact date of birth not known
i'm not sure what the squiggle says in the death registration where barbara's mother's maiden name should be, but does not look like manson to me, which was the correct answer.
meanwhile, over at balnakeil, her tablestone appears to say "died 12th January 1878 aged 95 years"
we now know it should have said "died 11th July 1858 aged 89 years"
oops!
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forgot to mention that barbara's civil death registration has other errors.
she was not 92 years old when she died.
died 11 july 1858 (civil record)
baptised 25 september 1768 (DPR)
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that's 89 years, 9 months, and 16 days (from baptism)
her exact date of birth not known
Unless she was not baptised as an infant, but at the age of 6 years or so.
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It's every bit as likely that her grandson-in-law was not entirely sure of her age.
The (horizontal) gravestone of Kenneth and Barbara in Balnakeil is so weathered as to be virtually illegible so I would presume a simple misreading of worn numbers and letters covered with lichen, rather than errors on the stone.
I think that the situation with Peter/Patrick Brown/Dunn depends on whether it was his English or Gaelic name being used - Donn (pronounced "dun") is the Gaelic for Brown and Patrick and Peter are the same name.
There's no hint of Barbara being born out of wedlock so baptism in infancy must be most likely. The 1841 Census has her aged 70 staying at the Manse which rather implies she was a widow. She would in fact have been 72 but that Census employed rounding of ages.
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djct59,
Yes, as you say, the 1841 census has Barbara (Ross) McCulloch, age 70, of Independent Means, born in Sutherland, and a resident of the Durness Manse.
In 1837 Barbara inherited 800 pounds from her late older brother Quartermaster John Ross. The exact wording of the bequest of the five equal 800 pound shares in the will: "... to Donald Ross, now or lately residing at Pictou in Nova Scotia, John Ross residing at Boularderie Island of Cape Breton in North America, both my brothers, and to my sisters Barbara Ross, widow of the late Kenneth McCulloch residing in the Parish of Durness aforesaid and Janet Ross wife of Angus MacLeod farmer in the said Parish of Durness and Donald Ross my nephew son of the deceased William Ross my brother and found lately residing in the Isle of Hoan Parish of Durness aforesaid..."
It is kind of breathtaking how precisely this bequest defines the locations of the family members in 1837. In addition, the last of the Codicils to the will was witnessed in Musselburgh, where QM John lived, in 1836 by John's nephew Hugh MacCulloch.
Those are the two primary points I use to estimate placeholder years of birth and death for Kenneth - the will of QM John and Barbara's residence as a widow at the Manse in the 1841 Census.
If Kenneth died at about 74 years of age and if Barbara was already a widow in 1836 when the Will of QM John was written, then Kenneth's year of birth would be in the early 1760s, which is consistent with his marriage to Barbara in 1788 and also is consistent with his date of birth as preceding the November 1764 start of DPR.
Regarding the MacCulloch offspring, Merran (Marion) MacCulloch married William Morrison on 20 November 1821 at the Durness Manse. I have not yet traced them further. Her sister Joanna I previously noted married Hugh Morrison at the Manse on 7 October 1818, but what I haven't yet mentioned is that they emigrated to Ontario, Canada.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/182030523/joanna-morrison
I've not yet put much effort into tracing the MacCulloch brothers beyond Hugh because there is such a massive amount of detail about Hugh I have yet to find the time to assess. See the attached screen shot of Hugh signing a merchant letter to his partner William Hartnell on 8 July 1822 near Santa Barbara, California - "all the way from Cape Wrath"
The last relevant thread here is that Hugh Morrison and Joanna MacCulloch as residents of Leeds County, Ontario, Canada in the 1830s were the Ross cousins who helped Donald Ross and his wife Isobel Calder, crofters on Island Hoan with 10 children, emigrate to Ontario and buy a farm with the proceeds of their one fifth share of the inheritance from QM John.
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Wilros - you say Hugh died in 1842, but the gravestone in Balnakeil says "In loving memory of Kenneth MACCULLOCH tenant at Crospoll who died 12th June 1837 aged 74 years. And of his spouse Barbara ROSS who died 12th January 1858 aged 95 years. Erected 1857 by their eldest son Hugh MACCULLOCH Callao South America"
The stone is flat and very faded - was it perhaps erected in 1837?
I can perhaps help here. In a letter to a cousin on 30th July 1840 Hugh MacCulloch, writing from Durness, says "Where I date this is found in the land of my birth, and mean to remain with my mother for 6 weeks."
He witnessed his uncle John Ross's will in February 1837 in Musselburgh which proves he was in the UK in that year so 1837 seems most likely. His own death in 1842 is beyond doubt.
I am currently writing the story of Hugh MacCulloch's life, having transcribed some 75 letters connected with his business, many of which he wrote. When completed I will post it to a website or blog.
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I have difficulty tracing Hugh and Barbara's descendants. Barbara's death in 1858 is witnessed by her son-in-law Robert Sutherland of Sangomore, but I cannot trace a marriage that fits for him. Likewise none of Hugh's siblings seem to leave any trace in the Durness parish records. They all seem to have died or moved away.
Hugh never married, seemingly, and bemoaned his lack of success with the ladies. His younger brother James was with him in South America but when last heard of was getting into trouble and being bailed out by Hugh so he could have ended up anywhere.
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Just to explain why I'm writing Hugh MacCulloch's life story, well apart from it being a very intriguing story I think he deserves it as his final act was to leave in his will the sum of £300 to be invested by the Rev. Findlater, his executor, for the benefit of the poor in Durness. This legacy became a registered charity called "McCulloch Bequest for the Poor of Durness" No. SC008950, now a Former Charity as in 2014 it was absorbed into the Highland Charities Trust as the "Durness Poor Fund" with a balance in 2018 of £71. So the benefit from his legacy, albeit not amounting to much, continues to this day.
It is thanks to the photograph of the gravestone and the words "Callao, S.America" that I discovered the story of his life which I don't believe has previously been connected to Durness.
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meanno,
in case you don't already have it, here's a high resolution (1000 dpi) b+w photo of the california state historic monument to mcculloch, hartnell & co. to honor their building known as the hide house at san pedro harbor.
https://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/hhh.ca1383.photos.012799p/
the photo is in the public domain courtesy of the usa library of congress.
also, i can probably be coaxed into travelling to bancroft library at u.c. berkeley to inspect their mcculloch & hartnell archive for you.
:-)
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Forfarian,
Thanks for the link to fabulous photo of Grudie on geograph.org.uk. I'm a big fan of their site. I use photos from their Balnakeil collection in genealogy pages I develop on my family members. Like this one, where I added a red outline to show the tablestone for my 4x great grandparents.
https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/e/e9/Ross-13077-5.jpg
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djct59,
About your photo showing the rock ruin remnants of the former Croispol settlement, is the view looking east, and are the buildings in the distance Balnakeil Craft Villiage?
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Wilros:
I was on the hill at the south-western end of the loch and was looking north-east. If you look closely you will see the Manse close to the top and centre. Behind that is indeed the "Crafty Village", on the site of the old township of Ballinloch.
What remains curious is the suggestion http://burial-grounds-suth.blogspot.com/ that Hugh erected the stone in 1857. Given the weathering presumably we must presume this is a misreading and the stone was erected much earlier. It's clear that he was wealthy as it's a substantial stone.
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Wilros: This photo is slightly clearer. "Your" family stone is at the extreme right hand edge. The tall narrow Hood's of Wick stone in the next row and parallel to the church gable is my great-great-grandfather's.
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What remains curious is the suggestion http://burial-grounds-suth.blogspot.com/ that Hugh erected the stone in 1857. Given the weathering presumably we must presume this is a misreading and the stone was erected much earlier. It's clear that he was wealthy as it's a substantial stone.
You may have missed my earlier post placing Hugh in the UK in 1837 which I believe strongly confirms your suggestion that the stone was erected in 1837 and that 1857 was a misreading.
I believe he may have been comfortable rather than wealthy. His estate was certified as being less than £4000 but I don't have the actual settlement figures. He left £500(or £200 - writing not clear) to his niece Hughina and £50 each to the Rev. Findlater's four daughters and £300 for the benefit of the poor in Durness as I mentioned in an earlier post. The residue income for his mother and then the residue to be split between his two sisters equally. He was going to leave his fishing tackle to his mother but changed his mind with a codicil and left it to Eric Findlater, son of the Rev. William.
The merchanting businesses that he was involved in ultimately failed and indeed 3 of his business associates were made bankrupt in 1830, with Hugh bearing the partnership liabilities of a 4th associate despite being himself in financial difficulties at the time in 1831. He appears to have been an astute businessman not to share the fate of his associates.
[this post edited later to add "or £200 - writing not clear"]
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also, i can probably be coaxed into travelling to bancroft library at u.c. berkeley to inspect their mcculloch & hartnell archive for you.
:-)
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wilros
Thanks for the offer but the online access to the documents is giving me more than enough information for my purpose. I am currently waiting for permission from the Bancroft Library to publish copies and/or transcripts of the letters and other documents.
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Hughina had a fairly substantial granite tomb erected (it's behind the iron railings in the photo above).
I note that her grandson was Robert Hugh Sutherland aka "Bertie Boer" (1914-77), who married John Lennon's aunt Elizabeth Stanley in 1949.
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Hughina had a fairly substantial granite tomb erected (it's behind the iron railings in the photo above).
I note that her grandson was Robert Hugh Sutherland aka "Bertie Boer" (1914-77), who married John Lennon's aunt Elizabeth Stanley in 1949.
A Beatle connection no less!
Are you certain that this Hughina is the daughter of Hugh Morrison and Joanna McCulloch? The inscription gives her birth year at 1827 but I can't remember if I know when Hugh Morrison and Joanna moved to Canada. They were certainly in Canada in 1839 when they met Donald Ross when he arrived there. So I wonder how Hughina would come to have been married in Durness?
Sorry I have just checked Hugh McCulloch's will - he says "my niece Hughina(daughter of Hugh Morrison) now residing with my mother at the parish of Durness"
So she must have stayed behind when her parents moved to Canada.
But I still can't find her baptism record.
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djct59
Can you point me to any info on "Bertie Boer"?
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Hugh MacCulloch of Callao, Peru, did have a niece, BUT... Hughina was the daughter of William Morrison and Marion "Merran" MacCulloch - she was born at Sangobeg and baptised in 12th February 1827.
There is no birth or baptism record for a child born to "Hugh Morrison" in the material period. He was married to Marion's sister Joanna but that marriage seems to have been childless. Perhaps Hughina stayed behind with her uncle and aunt in some form of informal "adoption"?
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Bertie was a dentist practising in Edinburgh, who presumably was one of the many from Durness who spent time in Transvaal in his younger days. His house was on the hillside at Sangomore. After hisc death it was bought as a second home by an incomer from Kent, but due to the steepness of the slope and the lack of occupancy, water ingress required it to be demolished about ten years ago and replaced with a new house.
He and Elizabeth spent their summers at Sangomore, but both died in Edinburgh in 1976 and 1977. My mother and uncles knew him better than I did.
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Hugh MacCulloch of Callao, Peru, did have a niece, BUT... Hughina was the daughter of William Morrison and Marion "Merran" MacCulloch - she was born at Sangobeg and baptised in 12th February 1827.
There is no birth or baptism record for a child born to "Hugh Morrison" in the material period. He was married to Marion's sister Joanna but that marriage seems to have been childless. Perhaps Hughina stayed behind with her uncle and aunt in some form of informal "adoption"?
Sorry I have been giving incorrect info. Yes I agree Hughina was the daughter of William and Merran. For some reason earlier I couldn't find any Morrison baptisms and now I get quite a few. I'll blame Scot People it can't have been me!
Again checking Hugh McCulloch's will, signed in 1842, he gives Merran McCulloch's address as "also residing near Brockville, Upper Canada" so that ties in with Hughina living with her grandmother in Durness.
I can't remember why I assumed that Hughina was the daughter of Hugh and Joanna. I haven't transcribed the will and so haven't studied it thoroughly. Apologies.
Hugh and Joanna had four children - Jannet(1824-62), William(1822-1912), Joanna(1838-1919) and Hugh McCulloch(1842-1915)
See the headstone page here:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/182030489/hugh-morrison
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yes, sorry, i was wrong, hughina was william morrison and merran macculloch's daughter, still hugh macculoch's neice, and johanna's neice too, lol.
hughina morrison of sangobeg, daughter of william morrison and merran macculloch, married robert sutherland of saingomore on 1 november 1844.
and this is likely the robert sutherland who was informant on on his wife's grandmother barbara macculloch's death registration in durness.
is this the robert sutherland born to angus sutherland and barbara mckay of saingomore on 15 april 1819?
and is this robert sutherland in durness (i.e., a gentleman the same age as my 2nd ggf) the ancestor of robert sutherland the mid-20th century edinburgh dentist with the croft in durness where john lennon and his cousin stan parkes went on summer holiday?
what a fascinating story arc!
btw, djct59, the memorial inscription in ontario, canada for hugh morrison (1791-1878) and his wife joanna macculloch (1801-1862) also names two children - jannet mckay (1824-1862) and william morrison (1822-1912)
meanno - i have a fifth child for hugh morrison and joanna mcculloch, named jane morrison, born 1834, married alexander stewart on 21 december 1870 in elizabethtown, leeds county, ontario, canada. marriage registration says parents were hugh morrison and joanna mcculloch, though by then hugh was a widow.
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Wilros;
Yes - Robert Sutherland (1819-1909), son of Angus Sutherland and Barbara MacKay married Hughina Morrison in 1884 and was the father of William George Sutherland (1862-1953).
William married Annabella MacLeod in 1904. Their youngest son was Robert Hugh Sutherland aka "Bertie Boer" of Sangomore (1914-77). His second wife was the widowed Elizabeth Jane Stanley/Parkes (1908-76), mother of Stanley and aunt of John Lennon.
My cousin remembers John's ill-fated return to Durness in 1969 when he crashed his car on a tight bend at Faolinn :)
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Wilros: This photo is slightly clearer. "Your" family stone is at the extreme right hand edge. The tall narrow Hood's of Wick stone in the next row and parallel to the church gable is my great-great-grandfather's.
djct59 - Thank you so much for posting the new photo of the memorial stones at Balnakeil. Initially I was baffled by what a "Hood's of Wick stone" was, but when I searched for the term, sure enough John Hood & Son Monumental Sculptors from Wick, Caithness was the first hit.
http://www.johnhood.co.uk/index.asp
So, to confirm, your 2x great grandparents are Richard Mackay and Angusina Sutherland, shown in the following link to Angi Lamb's 2005 photos.
https://public.fotki.com/rhemusaig/burial_grounds/durness_parish/durness_balnakeil/bk021.html
As I mentioned before, the table stone for Hugh Ross and Jean Manson, my 4x great grandparents, is surrounded by 5 stones, 4 of which are direct descendants of Hugh and Jean, and one of which is an unresolved mystery. Starting from the head of their stone at 12:00 and moving counter clockwise:
at 12 o'clock - A tall rectangular column in memory of Alex Morrison, his wife Janet MacLeod, and their kids. Janet is a granddaugter of Hugh Ross and Jean Manson, and a daughter of Angus MacLeod and Janet Ross.
2 o'clock - an aging standing stone placed by Quartermaster John Ross in honor of his father Hugh Ross.
6 o'clock - at the foot of their stone a strickingly beautiful monument entirely in Gaelic to Alexander Mackay and Hughina MacLeod. Hughina is a sister of Janet MacLeod, a daughter of Angus MacLeod and Janet Ross, and a granddaughter of Hugh Ross and Jean Manson.
7:30 o'clock - the mystery stone, no longer level.
9 o'clock - Angus MacLeod and his wife Janet Ross are parents of Janet and Hughina MacLeod, and Janet is a daughter of Hugh Ross and Jean Manson.
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No - I was refering to stone DU-C055. Families tended to be interred close by. My great-grandfather has a horizontal stone next to the upright one.
As far as I know the local authority has no plans to lift fallenstones or clean the faded ones. Weathering has made some harder to read even in the last ten years, so some real conservation work is becoming urgent, if it could be funded.
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djct59 - so your 2x great grandparents were Charles Campbell and Ann Mackay? In Angi's index Charles was the youngest child of Donald Campbell ("macarlishicicalister") and Margaret Campbell, and Donald was born in 1765 as the oldest son of Charles Macalister Campbell and Catherine Campbell. Is this the correct lineage?
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Yes it is. Donald's wife was Margaret nin Aiodh Campbell, daughter of a"Grange Campbell" - an incomer from the south. He was a Fencible soldier who spent some years in Ireland, hence the eight year gap between his first and second child.
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I was on the hill at the south-western end of the loch and was looking north-east. If you look closely you will see the Manse close to the top and centre. Behind that is indeed the "Crafty Village", on the site of the old township of Ballinloch.
djct59
Returning to my quest to understand place names.
Was the Manse considered part of Ballinloch or were they merely nearby each other and thought of as two separate locations?
Also, back to this chain of entries in the Parish Register of Durness:
1 - Peter Brown, alias Dunn from Peterhead, tenent in Grudie, and his wife Ann Mackay, alias nin Neil, Peter, 20 February 1787.
2 - Peter Dunn, alias Brown, tenant in Achairn and his wife Ann Mackay, alias nin Neilmacemish, Margaret, 6 April 1789.
3 - 1794 - Donald Ross a Single young man in Achuchoran and Ann Dunn in Auchuchairn were married 31st Decem'r
Grudie, Achairn, Achuchoran, and Auchuchairn - alternate names for one location? alternate names for more than one location? or unique names for four separate locations?
The narrative detail I'm trying to resolve is the location of the Dunn family. Patrick and Janet were married in Keoldale and were residents of Keoldale at the baptism of their first four children. Then in 1782 the fifth child is presented for baptism by the Dunns as tenants in Grudie, so a move from Keoldale to Grudie is clear.
Above Peter is baptised in 1787 when his father is a tenant in Grudie but his younger sister Margaret is baptised in 1789 when their father is a tenant in Achairn. Did they move from Grudie to Achairn?
Then Ann their oldest child is married in 1794 when the family is presumably residing at Auchuchairn. Did they move from Achairn to Auchuchairn?
Thanks very much,
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This photo at the geograph project:
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4126731
Has this caption: "Loch Borralie - The view is towards the island in the loch. The white building in the distance is the former Cape Wrath Hotel."
Is this true? Can you see the former Cape Wrath Lodge when looking south across Loch Borralie?
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Wilros: In reverse order
Yes, the old Cape Wrath Hotel (owned for many years by my mother's cousin) is very close to the south end of Loch Borralie, and can be seen easily from the ground rising above the loch.
Grudie/Achuchairn/Achuchorachan:
If tou look at Forfarian's pictures you will see an isolated house, not accessible by public road, called Grudie, on the headland (rubh) overlooking the Kyle where the River Ghrùdaidh enters it. There is an old stone buidling there that is over 200 years old and is now an outhouse. Half a mile away there is a former shepherd's bothy and some outbuidings, on the fertile ground that was the site of the Achuchairn/Achuchorachan township, again generally accessible only by footbridge.
My reading is that the former has always been "Grudie", and the latter was Achuchorachan, although when my uncle was shepherd there and the house on the point was empty, the whole area on the west of the Dionard was known as "Grudie".
The Manse a very substantial construction, close by the old schoolhouse and Balkakeil church. as far as I know it was regarded as separate from the rudimentary buildings that formed the township of Ballinloch.
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Attached is a draft pre-1800 township map that I made. it is not intended to be inclusive of all townships, rather is intended to support a genealogy narrative about specific family members and their spouses, in-laws, and cousins (Ross, MacCulloch, MacLeod, Morrison, Calder, Mackay, etc.) who lived in these locations.
The map base layer I used was https://her.highland.gov.uk/Monument/MHG17907
Please suggest corrections that will improve the accuracy of the township names and locations.
Thanks very much.
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That's not bad.
I'd move Croispol up north slightly to the direct left of where it says C1134, and Clashneach a bit south nearer to the coast. At the point on the map where it says C1134 was Balvoolich, and where the word "Durness" appears was Durine (the dark soil - dubh rinn). Lerin is between Sangomore and Sangobeg, and Ceannabeinne overlooks Eilean Hoan - perhaps the Norse burial place (How Ey - burial island).
Hope this helps.
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Whilst on the subject of locations, in the DPR Alexander Campbell and Angus Mackay are described as millers in Craigiemhulin, I believe also known as Craggywillin.
Would this be the ruin of the original mill, near to Balnakeil House, and so is this the location of Craigiemhulin?
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That's part of the mill. There has been a mill there since Timothy Pont's map in c.1590 https://maps.nls.uk/view/00002282. It drew is water from Loch Croispol. The larger building was the mill proper at Craigiemhulin - you can see where the wheel went, although the water channel has virtually dried up in the last hundred years. It was still working when my grandfather was a young man.
The present mill house dates from c.1830 https://canmore.org.uk/site/4814/balnakeil-mill The mill house in Alexander Campbell's time may have been on the same site or may have been the building in your picture. The current mill is B Listed and is now in a very dangerous state
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I'd move Croispol up north slightly to the direct left of where it says C1134, and Clasneach a bit south nearer to the coast. At the point on the map where it says C1134 was Balvoolich, and where the word "Durness" appears was Durine (the dark soil - dubh rinn). Lerin is between Sangomore and Sangobeg, and Ceannabeinne overlooks Eilean Hoan - perhaps the Norse burial place (How Ey - burial island).
Hope this helps.
djct59 - that is a fabulous amount of detail, thank you very much for the excellent suggestions. i'll increment the map to the next version and then post it for further review.
i'm also working on a second generation base layer from the ordinance survey that extends south to grudie and achuchoran.
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That's part of the mill. There has been a mill there since Timothy Pont's map in c.1590 https://maps.nls.uk/view/00002282. It drew is water from Loch Croispol. The larger building was the mill proper at Craigiemhulin - you can see where the wheel went, although the water channel has virtually dried up in the last hundred years. It was still working when my grandfather was a young man.
The present mill house dates from c.1830 https://canmore.org.uk/site/4814/balnakeil-mill The mill house in Alexander Campbell's time may have been on the same site or may have been the building in your picture. The current mill is B Listed and is now in a very dangerous state
I took this photo last October. As you rightly say, it's in a dangerous state and the roof is now falling in.
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Quite a dramatic decline in the last five years... :(
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Quite a dramatic decline in the last five years... :(
At least it doesn't have a tree growing through it like Angus Mackay's later mill at Badlehavish!
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djct59,
Attached is an updated draft of the township map for my family genealogy narrative. Thanks very much for helping me improve the accuracy of the map.
There are still two townships that are missing from the map - Achumore and Aultcoirfheasgil. Here's the relevant baptisms.
1802 - Angus MacLeod, alias macneilmacnish, in Aultcoirfheasgil, and his wife Janet Ross, John, 15 April
1803 - Angus MacLeod, little tenent in Aultcoirefhreasgil, and his wife Janet Ross, Marion (Mary Ann), 23 June
1806 - Angus MacLeod, herdman in Aultcoirefhreasgil, and his wife Janet Ross, William, 17 Nov.
1809 - Angus MacLeod, little tenent in Aultcoirefraisgil, and his wife Janet Ross, Alexander, 11 Mar.
1811 - Angus MacLeod in Achumore, and his wife Janet Ross, Kenneth, 21 May
1814 - Angus MacLeod, shepd., Achumore, and his wife Janet Ross, Angus - 20 December
1817 - Feb'y 4 - John son to Angus MacLeod shep'd Achumore
1819 - 7 September - Jannet, daughter to Angus MacLeod shepherd Achumore and Janet Ross
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Wilros:
They're a long way apart.
Achiemore was Capeside, west of the Kyle roughly where the road on the map turns 90° to the left.
Aultcoirfheasgil was slightly to the north of Badlahavish on the West Moine, overlooking Loch Eriboll and Eilean Hoan.
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Aultcoirfheasgil was slightly to the north of Badlahavish on the West Moine, overlooking Loch Eriboll and Eilean Hoan.
Aultcoirfheasgil is a crucial location for me. Whilst I agree there is a Freisgill on the West Moine also on the western side of the Kyle of Durness where Thompson 1832 puts Grudy there is an "Allt Coire Fresgill", and it's not that far from Achiemore which makes more sense for Angus Macleod.
I would really like it to be on the West Moine as it would help to confirm my lineage but I can't see that it is.
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Meanno: I don't see Allt Coire Fresgill on the Cape Side on my copy of Thomson's map from 1832. While that has its limitations, for its time it's pretty accurate.
Looking at the word to my mind you need -
A stream (allt)
A bowl like dip from glaciation (corrie)
A narrow waterfall (Norse - Frasa "quashing" Gill "ravine")
There are waterfalls on the stream two kilometres south of Friesgill bothy where the stream joins the Allt an't Strathain, but no waterfalls near the habitable land on the Parph Capeside, so I would be looking for some stronger evidence.
Also I note that Angus was initially a herdman (cattle) before becoming a shepherd. The Parph is suitable only for sheep (my uncle was shepherd there for over thirty years) so herding cattle there would seem unlikely.
As I said, I'll keep an open mind but am looking for something quite convincing.
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I think it's pretty clear on this although obviously a more recent map. It's towards the top left corner.
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Thanks. That stream is unnamed on my OS map, but it clearly rises in a corrie and flows downhill.
Were my uncle still alive he'd have known where it was :(
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next version attached.
send corrections and suggestions.
btw, here's an interesting photo.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4125284
photographer is likely standing just off the cape wrath road
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Wilros:
Yes the barn has been renovated recently as the sheep over there belong to a local farm. There was a dreadful accident there four years ago - https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/877965/shepherd-killed-as-quad-bike-plunges-off-cliff/
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Wilros;
Yes - Robert Sutherland (1819-1909), son of Angus Sutherland and Barbara MacKay married Hughina Morrison in 1884 and was the father of William George Sutherland (1862-1953).
William married Annabella MacLeod in 1904. Their youngest son was Robert Hugh Sutherland aka "Bertie Boer" of Sangomore (1914-77). His second wife was the widowed Elizabeth Jane Stanley/Parkes (1908-76), mother of Stanley and aunt of John Lennon.
My cousin remembers John's ill-fated return to Durness in 1969 when he crashed his car on a tight bend at Faolinn :)
djct59: A long-winded question - bear with me :)
When Robert married Hughina in 1844 he was in Sangomore and Hughina was in Sangobeg. In the 1851 census they are in Sangomore and he is a grocer, but later a crofter according to his death crt.
Hughina's grandmother Barbara Ross/McCulloch is living with them described as an annuitant no doubt because of her legacy from her brother John. Hughina is also well off in her own right having inherited £200 at least from her uncle Hugh McCulloch.
When Angus, Robert's father, married Barbara Mackay in 1811 he is described as a young man in his father's house in Saingomore.
Do you know or believe that the house in Sangomore with the John Lennon plaque pictured below from Google streetview is the same, or at least the same location, as the original Sutherland home/croft going back to at least 1811.
In other words, when Robert Hugh Sutherland and Elizabeth Stanley holidayed in Durness, were they staying at an ancestral Sutherland home/croft rather than one they bought in to?
It would be nice to connect an actual house or location to Barbara Ross and Hughina Morrison when I'm writing Hugh McCulloch's story, particularly one with a John Lennon connection!
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Meanno: In the 19th century a crofting tenancy would tend to stay in a family.
Even to this day it is mentioned that my MacDonald branch from Sangobeg moved into the "Mather croft" on Sangomore, on the other side of the hill. This happened in 1894 :-[
Crofts in Sangomore had a fair amount of land attached, so would be retained until there was nobody left to work the croft.
There's a house on that exact spot on the 1874 OS map, but over the years it changed a lot. There were three parts to the property then, which allows for the presence of Janet Mcculloch as a "servant" (she might well have been a cousin as well). The photo you post is from 2009 before the house was demolished. You will see that the main house runs parallel to the road, with an extension to the roadside.
Original dwellings were at right angles to the road. If you scroll to the left, you will see a much older and rougher structure that was the size and shape of an 18th/early 19th century croft house. That was probably the original dwelling, with the main part of the house in your photo replacing it some time in the 1880s. The buildings on the OS map were set further back from the road.
After Robert and Hughina Sutherland's deaths in 1909 and 1910 the croft would have become the property of a descendant. As I'm sure you know they had six children. Bertie was born in Tain, but he would have retained an interest in his grandfather's croft, which he was certainly using a second home by the early 1950s. When he acquired it I don't know, but it's pretty likely to be the site of the original croft.
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djct59: That is excellent information. Many thanks indeed.
Yes I'd noticed that older house on the left - here's a thought - Hughina had at least £200 from Uncle Hugh and Barbara had £800 from brother John so £1000 plus between them. A small fortune in Durness at that time. I wonder if their legacies funded the building of the larger house parallel to the road? Could it be that the Sutherlands only lived in the smaller older house until Robert had the good fortune to marry someone with some money?
Maybe, and this is for wilros, Quartermaster John's legacy helped to build the house that John Lennon stayed in? Now that would be something.
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john lennon trending on the rootschat home page...
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john lennon trending on the rootschat home page...
It's 2 p.m. in California. You should be working, not browsing!
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Returning to the subject of pre-clearance place names in Durness Parish.
Merran Ross (1759-1788) was born to Hugh Ross and Jean Manson, who were at that time tenants of John Mackay at Borley. This was before Rev. Thomson began his edition of the Parish Register of Durness for baptisms and marriages, so there is no baptism record for Merran. The primary source citation that survives to the modern era about Merran Ross is a monument inscription on her sister's table stone at Balnakeil.
Sacred to the memory of Merran Ross who died at Achigorn on the 29th July 1788 aged 29 years.
https://public.fotki.com/rhemusaig/burial_grounds/durness_parish/durness_balnakeil/bk022.html
This is on the table stone at Balnakeil shared by Angus MacLeod (1777-1848) and his wife Janet Ross MacLeod (1778-1866).
Also, Merran's siblings Barbara Ross MacCulloch and Janet Ross MacLeod, and her nephew Donald Hugh Ross each named a daughter Merran. And on 26 January 1827 Merran MacLeod married Neil Dingwall at Borley, though neither of them lived at Borley.
Achigorn? Or variations on that name?
Thanks very much!
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Wilros:
It's worth remembering that few in Durness wrote in the language theyu spoke, and even the Ministers in the parish records (a) wrote phonetically, and (b) were not always consistent with names or spelling.
When it came to the monumental masons, they were again dependent on what they heard, not what was written down. As we know, it is alleged that Rob Donn's grave bears the date "1777" because the mason wasn't confident carving the number "8".
The Merran Ross stone is very old and very faded, so it might be that the word carved has been misread. My best guess is it's the mason's spelling of "Achuchoran".
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djct59
From Hew Morrison
Wm. Morison, alias Machustanvicachinroy in Uaibeg, Hugh, 8 July 1765
Hector Morison, alias Macomashvicachinroy, John, NBLW, 10 August 1765
Do their patronymics imply that Hugh and William are first cousins?
Where in Durness Parish is Uaibeg?
thanks very much,
[wr]
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Uibig/Uaibeag was a little settlement where the stream left Loch Croispol north to Balnakeil mill (see map)
Yes, it's certainly more than plausible that Hugh Morison and Thomas Morison were brothers, so William and Hector were cousins.
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The flat ground to the right of the loch here
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djct59 -
From Hew Morrison
Angus Munro Macdhonilicorachy in Eribol, Marion, 14 July 1765
Murdoch Munro, alias Macdholvicorachy, in Eribol, James, 19 Mar. 1767
that's "dhonilic" compared with "dholvic"
Is this possibly the same patronymic rendered two different ways phonetically by Rev. Thomson, so that Angus and Murdoch were possibly brothers? Or clearly not the same patronymic at all and these Munros were possibly cousins?
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Couple of points:
Hew Morrison was reading 150 year old documents written in pretty scrawled handwriting on ancient paper and written phonetically, then trying to provide accurate transcriptions. we now know that there were several errors and omissions in his printed text.
There's a quirk in Assynt Gaelic. While the "proper" Gaelic for Donald is Domhnall - "DOE - nall", in the northwest it's long been pronounced "DOE - lann". One entry uses the correct pronunciation, the other the local. If it's not a transcription error it's still understandable.
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djct59 -
Thanks for the excellent technical details!
Hew Morrison notes up front that Rev. Thomson was not a native speaker, and by this explains the drift and variation in Thomson's phonetic spellings of place names and patronymics.
To state the obvious, my 3rd great grandfather John Ross (1775-1857), who was born in Durness Parish and then emigrated to Nova Scotia with his wife and two children under the age of 5 years, represents just one of eight of my 3x great-grandparents from Scotland. Six of these other ancestors were from counties outside of Sutherland (i.e., Caithness, Inverness, and Perth). So I'm looking at hand written parish baptism and marriage registers from the late 1700s in many parishes in Scotland, but I spend most of my time on the Durness narrative penned by Rev. Thomson because, although quirky and creatively inconsistent, he was quite gifted at composing densely expressive narrative. It is a brightly qualitative thread that transcends and animates the normative underlying quantitative data elements (father, mother, township, date).
Thanks again!
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This post seeks input on a transcription puzzle. I'm confident about most words in this marriage registration except for the alias of William Morrison and the township/location where he is a shepherd. My current transcription is - "1821 - Nov. 20 - At the Manse William Morrison alias Mc??uarie Shep'd Par?? and Merron McCulloch Saingobeg."
Suggestions for the two tough words gratefully appreciated.
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McRuarie = son of Roderick
Roderick Morrison was a shepherd at Kervaig (Kerwick), about three miles from Cape Wrath, married to Mary MacKay. William was baptised on 12th March 1797. There was a previous William in the family born in 1787 who presumably died.
Parf = Parph. The formal name of the land to the west of the Kyle of Durness heading to Cape Wrath and the west coast. It means "turning point" and is derived from the Norse hvarth.
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Parf = Parph. The formal name of the land to the west of the Kyle of Durness heading to Cape Wrath and the west coast. It means "turning point" and is derived from the Norse hvarth.
djct59 - thanks very much. your pointer helped me find a reference:
"The cape is separated from the rest of the mainland by the Kyle of Durness and consists of 107 square miles (280 km2) of moorland wilderness known as the Parph."
from > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Wrath
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djct59 - found this quotation in the essay "The Life of Rob Donn" by Hew Morrison.
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Roderick Morrison of Cearvaig, near Cape Wrath, has given the only personal description we have of the bard. Roderick described him as "brown haired, brown eyed, rather pale complexioned, clear skinned, and, I would say, good-looking. When he entered a room his eye caught the whole at a glance, and the expression of his countenance always indicated much animation and energy. In figure he was rather below middle size, and stout and well formed for his size. In the month of November preceding his death, he attended the interment of an uncle of mine, who was a co-age of his. When the coffin was lowered into the grave, Robert turned to me and said, 'There is my co-age committed to earth, aged 63, and before this time next year I shall be laid down here too.' ... I have always understood him to have been particularly happy in domestic life. His wife, Janet Mackay, was a remarkably sensible woman, and so active in her habits that she kept their concerns at home in order when Robert was absent. She was a fine singer, and it was delightful to hear them in the winter evenings sing together. Two of the daughters had some turn for composing verses, and occasionally amused their father by quick replies to his impromptus, composed to any passing incident."
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The essay "The Life of Rob Donn" by Hew Morrison is in the preface to the expanded volume of poems edited by Hew Morrison and published in 1899. I looked but did not find a reference to the source of this extended quotation that Hew Morrison attributes to Roderick Morrison.
The full volume edited by Hew Morrison can be accessed here:
https://archive.org/details/songspoemsingael02donn/mode/2up (https://archive.org/details/songspoemsingael02donn/mode/2up)
Here's some relevant transcriptions from the Durness Parish Register.
Marriage
1777 - Roderick Morison alias Macuilam-macrory in Cerrauch and Mary Mackay alias ninMacAlister macuillam roy in Sartigrim were married the twenty seventh day of November.
Baptism
1797 - Roderick Morison, alias Macuilam-macrory Herdman in Cerruac near Cape wrath, and Mary Mackay his wife had a Child Baptized and named William 12th March.
Marriage
1821 - Nov. 20 - At the Manse William Morrison alias McRuarie Shep'd Parf and Merron McCulloch Saingobeg.
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Thanks. I cannot find anything published by Roderick Morrison, so I suspect he wrote it privately.
I see that Rob Donn wrote of the "Grange" Campbells - incomers from the south in the late 17th century. I have one or two as direct ancestors.
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djct59 - one thing i forgot to ask about.
Hew Morrison Life of Rob Donn
"Roderick Morrison of Cearvaig, near Cape Wrath"
Hew Morrison Parish Register of Durness
"Roderick Morison, alias Macuilammacrory, in Cerruack [married] Mary Mackay, alias nin Enicalistermacuillamroy, in Sartigrim"
"1787 - Roderick Morison, alias macuillammacrory, a herdman in Carruac, and his wife Mary Mackay, William - 18 Dec."
Are Cerruack or Cerruac and Cearvaig different places?
Are these two different Roderick Morrisons?
[wr]
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They are the same place. It's a small inlet near Cape Wrath called by the Norse either karfi-vik - bay of the fast rowing ship or kaer-vik - the dear bay, it being a safe haven between Faraid (from fár - dangerous) Head and Cape Hvarth - the point to turn south.
Shepherds still pronounce it "Ker-wick", but as Gaelic doesn't have the letter "w" local speakers would pronounce it as "Kear-vaig".
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They are the same place. It's a small inlet near Cape Wrath called by the Norse either karfi-vik - bay of the fast rowing ship or kaer-vik - the dear bay, it being a safe haven between Faraid (from fár - dangerous) Head and Cape Hvarth - the point to turn south.
thanks, i see it now on the os map.
here's an os aerial 3d view looking east southeast. nice sandy spot to land a flat bottomed norse craft.
when we were in denmark a few years ago we went to the viking ship musem at roskilde (https://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/) where they produce new replicas of viking watercraft in the musem boatyard, using authentic tools and methods.
[wr]
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As you will note, there are very few safe landings east of Cape Wrath for sailors returning home.
Balnakeil Bay is much wider and flatter, but you need to turn sharp south to avoid Faraid Head, ensure that the tide is beating the outflowing river into the bay (from higher up you can see the water change colour), and there is no source of fresh water on the headland.
OTOH, Kearvaig has fresh water in the form of a narrow stream.
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djct59 - next mapping question.
The diary of Rev. Donald Clarke in an entry dated November 1835 and refering to John Ross: "He says that Rob Donn was the last person he shook hands with in Durness at the top of the Balloch Mor."
Let's assume that in this anecdote John Ross describes himself as a 19 year old raised in the township of Borley and departing from Durness Parish in early 1778 to travel to Elgin to enlist in McLeod's 73rd Highland Light Infrantry regiment.
Attached is a fragment of a map showing a location named "Bealach Mor" which is, essentially, a small vale along a watercourse labeled "Allt Ach a Chorrain" that flows northwest into the Kyle of Durness.
Could this be the location described as "the top of the Ballach Mor" in the Clarke diary?
[wr]
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Could be - this map https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400360, dating from 1820, appears to show a track running south from Durness and crossing the Balloch Burn to reach Loch Eriboll, and then a road continuing south from there. Although Bealach Ṃr isn't specifically named, it would be the obvious way for such a track to go.
Interestingly, by the time of the first Ordnance Survey map three decades later, this track isn't shown at all, not even as a path. See https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13&lat=58.51041&lon=-4.78360&layers=5&b=1.
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This is not a straightforward question.
As Forfarian points out, a number of paths on old plans, in effect shepherds' trails, have long since disappeared.
My grandfather was born in 1875, eight years before Lawson's Tarmac road north from Lairg was laid down. His understanding was that before the road was built along the east bank of the Dionard, the traditional route to Durness traversed the valley between Loch Caladail and Loch Meadaidh (both then smaller as they hadn't been dammed) and met the main village at the top of Sangomore.
The road was considerably higher than the modern one, possibly closer to the summer sheilings, and is traversed by a number of mountain passes leading from the Kyle of Durness to Loch Eriboll, that would allow the drovers from Loch Hope and the West Moine to meet the path south.
The route from Allt Ach a'Chorrain does cut through some of the lower ground north of Cranstackie and south of Meall Meadhonach and would have met the old north-south path about a mile east of the present road. There were several small townships to the east, who would need access to the road south
I haven't walked it, but it looks a lot easier than the Bealach further north between Meall and Beinn Ceannabeinne which is easy on the west but not on the east.
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djct59
Here's an OS aerial 3d view of the Ballach Mor route. Looks like a long but clear transit. It doesn't show in this screen capture, but if you pan the aerial view back further east to include the western shore of Loch Erribol then a gradual descent seems viable from Ballach Mor to the main road south of Laid.
[wr]
Moderator Comment: Copyright image removed.
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I googled Badlihavish and found this site and your post about the mill. Angus Mackay was my 4 x great grandfather and I have his and wife Barbara's gravestone info and births of children to them and to him and Catherine Morrison. Your posts seem to suggest that Angus was miller earlier on at Craigiemhulin, Balnakeil. I have a note that Angus may have been born there but no reference (!) Can you confirm that?
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Kearvaig bothy, the section on the right was occasionally used as a schoolhouse!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/niallcorbet/7825482726
Skoosh.
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BMAM73 - I presume you mean Angus MacKay MacEan'icIye (1749-1840), miller at Badlahavish, married to Barbara Manson from Reay on 16th November 1793 and interred with her at Arnaboll. That cemetery is virtually inaccessible now. The landowner makes it as difficult as possible to access it, even on foot. I've been there but it was not an easy trip.
The Angus MacKay, who was miller at Craigiemhulin and married to Catherine Morrison appears to be the same man, as he bears the same patronymic, has the same trade, and all his children with Catherine were born between 1778 and 1780. As you know, there is no record of their marriage in the parish register and his birth predates the birth records by fifteen years.
Skoosh: Yes, my 4x great-grandfather Thomas Mather was shepherd at Keavaig and his children were schooled at that very house.
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A great place djct, I've stayed in it twice. Watched a school of whales from the Clo Mor to the east, highest mainland Scottish cliffs. The whales were right into the cliff below. Superb!
Bests,
Skoosh.
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Flick the pics to show an outshot at the rear of the schoolhouse, teachers bedroom maybe?
Kearvaig is a typical "But & Ben", facing south for the light (mebbes a wee bit out!) with the kitchen (the But) to the west to carry the heat through the house as the fire was never out! The "Ben" end also had a fire for occasional use & a wooden floor as opposed to the stone-flagged kitchen. A large family would need rooms in the loft or an extension which was generally added to the "Ben" and called the "Faur Ben!"
Possibly that was the case at Kearvaig & it was later converted to a schoolhouse, hence the outshot & front entrance?
Skoosh.
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Skoosh: That was the standard design, and is the same as the better documented (but now ruined) schoolhouse at Loch Croispol - https://www.academia.edu/1152284/The_School_at_Loch_Croispol_1730_-_1861_Durness_North_West_Sutherland_2010_
Part of the building was the teacher's living quarters, and the rest was the room for teaching, hence the need for two doors. The roof of the teacher's quarters was still extant when my Uncle John (b. 1921) was a boy.
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Very interesting djct, so not a conversion, I wonder if there were kids in the lighthouse? An idyllic childhood, depending on the teacher? ;D
Sadly I know folk who won't stay in Kearvaig due to the unfortunate business of the lassie who starved herself there a few years ago, you never know who you'll get for company in a bothy!
The building of Kearvaig must have been epic & used a boat for timber, lime, slates & glass etc. All credit is due to the MBA for saving it! If it is as old as Loch Croispol it could be the oldest bothy in their care!
There is a poem which includes the line "There's Sangomore & Sangobeg!" if anybody can oblige?
Bests,
Skoosh.
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The death was almost 20 years ago, but is a salutary lesson to anyone who thinks that you can live out there permanently without having developed real skills in fishing, crop growing and animal slaughter. In August 1887 the shepherd's house at Kearvaig was nearly wrecked by a direct lightning strike that injured Mitchell Mather and his grandchildren.
Capeside had a few small hamlets (Dall, Achiemore) and a population of perhaps 50-75, so it was easier to educate the shepherd's children there than expect them to cross the Kyle twice a day
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Hi there,
Wondering if there are any Death records for around 1844 in the parish registers. I understand the Free Church had just started. Did they have any?
I am looking for the death of Donald MacKay (Maceanmacdholiuileamoig) born to John and ? in 1761. Married to Isobel MacKay in 1793 in StrathMelness and then in 1801To Sybella Thomson. I have him in the 1841 Census aged 80 Army P, but he is gone by 1851.
I was given about 1844 by a distant relation Donald here in NZ about 2005. I have lost touch with him which is a pity. Was there any local papers that may have mentioned him? Any other thoughts?
Cheers and Thanks :)
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Skoosh: Yes, my 4x great-grandfather Thomas Mather was shepherd at Keavaig and his children were schooled at that very house.
djct59,
My Durness cousins connect to a Thomas Mather (details below) but perhaps not the same Thomas? This Thomas was a shepherd at Balnaceil and at Balamhulich
(below are my transcriptions from the Durness Register pages written by Rev. John Thomson or Rev. William Findlater)
My 3x great grandfather John Ross
"1775 - Hugh Ross in Borley had John baptized upon 16th May"
John's younger sister Janet Ross
"Hugh Ross, alias macenicoun, tenant in Borley, Janet, 17 May 1778"
Janet Ross married Angus MacLeod
"1799 - Angus MacLeod, alias MacNeilishicloid in Clashneach, and Janet Ross, nin hustian macEanicoun in Achuchoran were married 10th December"
Baptism of their daughter Marion/Merran MacLeod
"Angus MacLeod, little tenent in Aultcoirefhreasgil, and his wife Janet Ross, Marion (Mary Ann) - 23 June 1803"
Marion/Merran MacLeod married Neil Dingwall
"1826 - Jan 26 At Borley Neil Dingwall Sangobeg and Merran McLeod dau. to Angus McLeod and Janet Ross Shepherd Achumore"
Neil Dingwall's baptism
"1800 - Alexander Dingwall a little farmer in Clashneach and Christian Mackay his wife had a child Baptized named Neil 18th December"
Neil Dingwall's sister Donaldina
"1803 - Alexander Dingwall in Cnocbreac, and his wife Christian Mackay, Dollie - 10 September"
Dolina Dingwall married John Mather
"1829 Feb'y 13 At Saingobeg John Mather son to Thos. Mather shep'd Balnakeil and Dolina Dingwall dau. of late Alex'r Dingwall Sangobeg"
John Mather, son of Thomas Mather
"1809 - Thomas Mathers Shepherd in Balnaceil and Janet Crawford his wife had a Son Baptised 25th May. His name is John."
Baptism of Edward Mathers, older brother of Thomas
"1806 - Thomas Mathers Shepherd in Balnaceill and Janet Crawford both from Northumberland had Edward Baptized 12th November"
Angi Lamb's index lists six children baptised by Thomas Mather and Janet Crawford between Edward Mather in 1806 and Margaret Mather in 1819.
Hope everyone is safe and healthy during the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic over there in the UK, yours from Northern California,
[wr]
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djct59,
btw, that's a very nice photo you posted of the loch croispol school house ruins. have you considered releasing some of your photos to the uk geograph project? http://www.geograph.org.uk/
[wr]
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Headbutts: The short answer is that ministers did not keep a written record of deaths, only births and marriages. These were necessary to prove the legitimacy of marriages and that parties were of age and not prohibited to marry by the terms of the Incest (Scotland) Act 1567. The dead would be commemorated on a stone which everyone could see.
Donald MacKay would probably be buried in the cemetery at Melness, which is now in Tongue Parish. His stone would be a flat on, probably sandstone, and likely to be illegible now - the Melness gravestones are here, but I don't see any that arte legible and fit your information - https://public.fotki.com/rhemusaig/burial_grounds/tongue-parish/tongue_melness/page6.html
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Wilros: I am descended from the shepherd Thomas Mather (1783-1852), b. Redewater, Northumberland, d. Balnakeil, Durness, through his son Mitchell from his first marriage in England to Kitty Dodds.
All his other children are from his second marriage to Janet Crawford of Rothbury, Northumberland. They came north when the local area was populated with Cheviot sheep. I see I said that Thomas was shepherd at Kearvaig. That was an error - it was his son Mitchell (my g-g-g-grandfather, 1800-1890) who tended the sheep at Kearvaig. Edward, John, James, Margaret and Hannah were his half-siblings. John died in 1852 offshore at Port Nepean, Victoria, in the notorious plague outbreak on the Ticonderoga without ever setting foot in Australia.
Never thought about sending photos to geograph but will give it a thought. That one was a prize winer at the local show a few years ago.
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Only the well-off in a parish had their name cut in stone. The majority had their lair marked with a stone or the name cut or burned in wood & these markers have vanished.
Skoosh.
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Some of the oldest graves in Balnakeil consist of a flat stone laid horizontally at the level of the grass. If there was ever anything written, it disappeared centuries ago. There is another stone that bears a carved date but no names, so I must presume that the names were, as you propose, marked in a less permanent form.
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Wilros: I am descended from the shepherd Thomas Mather (1783-1852), b. Redewater, Northumberland, d. Balnakeil, Durness, through his son Mitchell from his first marriage in England to Kitty Dodds.
djct59,
Ok, then condensing the siblings, cousins, inlaws, etc. connecting us, from John Ross born in Borley in 1775 to John Mather born in Balnaceil in 1809, into a single sentence:
my 3rd great-grandfather's sister's daughter's husband's sister married your 4th great-grandfather's son;
or, less precise but more condensed, my 3rd great-grandfather's niece's sister-in-law married your 4th great-grandfather's son.
lol.
[wr]
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Since the people involved have long since died, names might help, but that's up to you :)
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I'm working on the biography of Alexander MacLeod (1809-unknown), the fifth of nine children born in Durness Parish to Angus MacLeod (1777-1848) and Janet Ross (1778-1866).
Alexander MacLeod's baptism:
"1809 - Angus MacLeod a little Tenent in Aultcorifraisgill and Janet Ross his wife had Alexander Baptized 11th March."
Marriage to Christian Mackay:
"1831 Jan'y 14 - At the Manse Alex McLeod son to Angus McLeod shepherd Achumore and Christian Mackay servant at the Manse."
I have baptisms for each of the seven children born to Alexander MacLeod and Christian Mackay, and the family is visible in the 1841 and 1851 census. After that they disappear - not in any other census, no marriages of any of the kids, no death certificates, etc.
My question is the family of origin for Christian Mackay. Specifically, was she a daughter of Lt. Donald Mackay and Sybella Thomson?
"1806 - Lieut. Donald Mackay in Borly and Sybella Thomson his wife had a Daughter born 15th November and Baptized 16th Decem. i.e. Christian"
In the 1851 census Christy McLeod is listed as 4 years older than Alex, so the Christian born to Lt. Mackay and Sybella Thomson is plausible.
Searching ScotlandsPeople for female baptisms with the name Christian Mackay in Durness Parish between 1800 and 1810 yields only one candidate, the Christian Mackay born to Lt. Donald Mackay and Sybella Thomson. Broadening the search to any parish in Sutherland and searching only for infants named Christian Mackay returns 10 candidates.
Suggestions welcome.
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An Isabella MacLeod died in 1877 aged 40. She and her husband Angus MacKay are buried in Balnakeil.
I presume you have ruled out the Barbara MacLeod who died in Strathy in 1915?
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Isabella MacLeod died in 1877 aged 40 . She and her husband Angus MacKay are buried in Balnakeil.
I presume you have ruled out the Barbara MacLeod who died in Strathy in 1915?
Djct59,
Good questions. I'm looking into them and writing answers below.
From the Durness Parish statutory death record Isabella McKay died 17 April 1877 in Keoldale, Durness Parish, the informant on her death was her widow Angus McKay, and her parents were William and Henny McLeod
I found this Isobel McLeod's baptism - "1836 October 30 Isobel Lawful Daughter of William and Henrietta McLeod in Knockan." Her baptism was registered in Assynt Parish. So this Isobel McLeod from Assynt is not one of the children in the Alex McLeod + Christy Mackay family.
For context, here's the baptism in the Durness Register for Isobel Macleod born in Clashneach:
"1836 Mar. 25 - Isabell to Alex McLeod shep'd Clashneach and Christy Mackay."
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From the statutory death registration Barbara Macleod who died in Strathy on 16 December 1915 was a widow of William Sinclair, a ship captain, she was 75 years old (right age for birth in 1840), and her parents were John Macleod and Elizabeth Mackay.
So this Barbara Macleod has the right forename and maiden surname and year of birth, but otherwise is not a match for the one I am looking for - whose stanza in the Durness Parish Register reads like this: "1840 Nov. 2 - Barbara Scobie to Alex McLeod shep'd Eodavabhinn and Christy Mckay."
[ aside, where is Eodavabhinn? ]
My other question is about Alex's spouse Christy Mckay. Was she Christian Mackay the daughter of Lt. Donald Mackay and Sybella Thomson? This is the only Mackay in the Durness Parish Register with the right forename and right year of birth to be Alex's bride. Was the daughter of Lt. Donald Mackay and Sybella Thomson the Christian Mackay who as a 23 year old servant at the Durness Manse married Alex Macleod a 21 year old shepherd? Is this an implausible outcome for the daughter of a Mackay who is both an army officer and a Tachsman, and also for the granddaughter of Rev. Thomson?
There are dozens of other Christian/Christy/Christina McKays born in Scotland from 1804-1807, with 14 other candidates in five Sutherland parishes other than Durness.
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Wilros: The name Christy MacKay is, as you've noted, not rare, so it's difficult on the basis of the limited information in the parish records to conclude that this is the daughter of the Lieutenant and the Minister's daughter. I tend to agree she probably would not marry a shepherd.
No idea about Eodavabhinn - would need to see it written down as it has ther feel of a transcription error.
That leaves you with a couple and several children in the parish in the early 1840s/1850s, but never seen again. My guess is that they all sailed on the notorious Ticondereoga to Australia in 1852. Whether they got there I do not know - https://nepeanhistoricalsociety.asn.au/history/quarantine-station/the-ticonderoga-1852/. There were definitely Durness families on board - John Mather died at the Quarantine Station but his widow Dolina and their children settled in Victoria, so that would be my best guess
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No idea about Eodavabhinn - would need to see it written down as it has ther feel of a transcription error.
That leaves you with a couple and several children in the parish in the early 1840s/1850s, but never seen again. My guess is that they all sailed on the notorious Ticondereoga to Australia in 1852. Whether they got there I do not know - https://nepeanhistoricalsociety.asn.au/history/quarantine-station/the-ticonderoga-1852/. There were definitely Durness families on board - John Mather died at the Quarantine Station but his widow Dolina and their children settled in Victoria, so that would be my best guess
djct59,
thanks, that is very helpful!
attached is a cropped screen shot of the handwritten baptism record for barbara mcleod. the digital image of that page is identified as "(Old Parish Registers Births 048/ 20 17 Durness) Page 17 of 37"
the date of the entries on this page is the years 1840-1841, and it looks like rev. findlater's writing, though this page is not signed.
i started looking for dolina (dingwall) mather among the australia immigration documents at scotlandspeople, but have not found her yet.
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[ aside, where is Eodavabhinn? ]
In the 1841 census the family is at Balachedrabhin (FindMyPast transcription). Have you looked at the original census?
Unfortunately FreeCEN hasn't done Durness in 1841 yet, so I can't 'walk' the ED to try to see where it is.
The last bit looks the same - from abhainn, meaning a river. Balach could be from bealach, meaning a pass and edr might be from eadar, which means between. If the v is a mistranscription of r, the name in the parish register might be eadar + abhainn, while the name in the census could be bealach + eadar + abhainn.
But I can't find an obvious contender in the OS Name Book.
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Forfarian: I read the name as Eadanabhinn, which fits exactly with your hypothesis. Can't find it on the 1;50,000 OS Map or on the Canmore larger scale one, though.
Best guess is it was a small cottage on the Capeside, but I don't have a copy of that page of the Census to verify what was nearby.
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wilros has sent me the originals of the 1841 and 1851 census.
In 1841 I read the places named as Balachedrabhin, Charbreak, Regutter, Grudy and Sartgrum.
In 1851 there are only Balach and Grudy.
The Macleod family is in Balachedrabhin in 1841 and Balach in 1851.
Grudie is at the head of the Kyle of Durness - see https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC3663 and Sarsgrum is a mile or so futher north, beside the road - see https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC3764. Carbreck is a few miles further south, also beside the road - see https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC3359.
So I am pretty sure that the Macleods' home is not far from here.
Grudie actually lies on a headland between two rivers - Abhainn na Buaile Duibhe or Grudie River on the west, and River Dionard on the east.
North-north-west of Carbreck is a feature named on the maps as Am Bealach - The Pass. See https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC3260 - and look to the north and there's a ruin named Balloch. https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC3261.
So there you are - a cottage on a pass between two rivers.
You can also see Balloch on the first edition Ordnance Survey six-inch map https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=58.50880&lon=-4.88173&layers=6&b=1 - you may need to zoom in to see it.
Am I allowed to say QED?
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Rhigolter and Carbreck are still working farms. Carbreck (formerly Cathirbreac) is on the downward slope of Gualin Hill, and Rhigolter is in the valley a half a mile to the south-east. Grudie is a remote house accessible only by quad bike, but s also used as the name of my uncle's bothy when he was a shepherd on the Capeside, and Sarsgrum was a small township, but is now a single house.These are all within a few miles and indeed are quite close to Aultcorriefraisgill
There is indeed a single house in the bealach that led from the west of Glashbhein to the Kyle via the River Grudie marked on the OS map as "Balloch". A look on the satellite image shows the existence of a long house and an enclosed area. Between there and the ferry landing there is nowhere inhabited on the Parph.
I therefore agree with your conclusion - there is no better fit with the evidence
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Forfarian,
The UK Geograph photo of the old derelict building of Balloch on Ghlas-bheinn is amazing. Seems fairly large. Is the consensus that the Balloch Ruin in the Geograph photo is possibly the residence of Alex and Christy McLeod that was enumerated in the 1841 and 1851 census?
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The UK Geograph photo of the old derelict building of Balloch on Ghlas-bheinn is amazing. Seems fairly large. Is the consensus that the Balloch Ruin in the Geograph photo is possibly the residence of Alex and Christy McLeod that was enumerated in the 1841 and 1851 census?
I am pretty certain that that is where they lived.
I am less sure that these walls were the actual walls that stood there in the 1840s. I have a notion that the house may have been rebuilt sometime in the second half of the 19th century, but I could be wrong. It just looks too solid and substantial to have lasted that long. Also it has a proper chimney and decent-sized windows.
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Well, I'm not sure either way. Certainly by the 1840s there already existed stone crofthouses with window frames, stone door and window lintels and even some chimneys - I think the teacher's quarters at Loch Croispol had a chimney.
Certainly, even if the chimney was added later, the basic design of the door and window frames accords witth that of a number of crofthouses known to be occupied before 1840, when crofters were being forced out of the remoter townships into ones closer to the coast and the harbours that gave access to the south. There are buildings still partially standing in the parish whose construction can be dated back to pre-1840.
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As I said, I can't be sure either way. It was just that I couldn't say in all honesty that I am certain that these were the walls they lived in.
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https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1265197
When I look at Geograph photo #1265197 I see a small older cottage on the left, with a small door and small windows, built of smaller, rougher hewn stone, with some rocks appearing potentially undressed, and no exterior veneer of mortar. On the right I see a large addition, built of larger and more finely dressed stone, with a larger door and larger window openings, with an exterior veneer of mortar or grout. The chimney looks like part of the addition, not the original cottage.
I hope I get the chance to walk about there someday so I can post some higher resolution photos to Geograph!
Thanks again Forfarian for uncovering the photo.
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https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1265197
When I look at Geograph photo #1265197 I see a small older cottage on the left, with a small door and small windows, built of smaller, rougher hewn stone, with some rocks appearing potentially undressed, and no exterior veneer of mortar. On the right I see a large addition, built of larger and more finely dressed stone, with a larger door and larger window openings, with an exterior veneer of mortar or grout. The chimney looks like part of the addition, not the original cottage.
Yes, you are quite right. The part on the left in Colin Kinnear's photograph, does look older than the rest.
I hope I get the chance to walk about there someday so I can post some higher resolution photos to Geograph!
Great idea - but take some more photos of the surroundings while you are there. It looks like a toughish walk - a couple of miles of pathless moorland. But at least there's only 100 metres of a climb from Carbreck.
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forfarian,
lol, balloch mor is just one item on a long list of sites in durness parish that i hope to document some day with higher resolution photos, and then post all the photos on geograph. at the moment i have far too many pictures to capture in a one week visit, so it will have to be at least two weeks! and sadly, not during covid-19. my list includes borley, clashneach, cnockbreac, balnakeil, crosple, uaibig, achuchoran, aultcoirfheasgil, sartigrim, balloch mor, achiemore, kervaig, cape wrath, eilean hoan, inverhope, loch hope, alltnacaillich, luibain, allt a mhuiseil, dun dornaigil broch, just a wee bit of wandering about in various directions...
and that's just in durness parish...
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I know the feeling - places I want to go and photograph.
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Some time ago I mentioned on here that I was writing the story of Hugh McCulloch 1793-1842. It's now complete and available on this (ad-free) link: https://durnesstocalifornia.blogspot.com (https://durnesstocalifornia.blogspot.com)
There's nothing in it relating to his Durness connection that hasn't been mentioned here, but one fact I don't mention in the story as it doesn't really fit is that he was, at the last count, the third Scotsman to ever set foot in California, the first two being sailors who jumped ship in 1814 and 1818 respectively.
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Some time ago I mentioned on here that I was writing the story of Hugh McCulloch 1793-1842. It's now complete and available on this (ad-free) link: https://durnesstocalifornia.blogspot.com (https://durnesstocalifornia.blogspot.com)
Fabulous work Meanno!
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Uggh - "Durness 'swamped' by post-lockdown roadside campers"
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-53713593
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Uggh - "Durness 'swamped' by post-lockdown roadside campers"
Shocking Elizabeth
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-53713593
:-(
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It's been terrible for about three weeks now, from Sangomore campsite to the shop to Balnakeil the roads have been filled with parked cars.
Parking in a passing place and sticking a tent up 15 metres away is not "wild camping" - it's just inconsiderate.
It had been my intention to go up next week and take some pictures, but I suspect I might not bother now.
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A two part question.
The following text is copied and pasted from Hew Morrison's transcription of the Durness Parish Register.
MARRIAGE
1769 Neil MacLeod in Grudie married Janet nin Nishvicorish in Naultan 20 June
BAPTISM
1772 Neil Macleod in Saingo, Isobel 18 Jan
1775 Neil Macleod in Saingo, Janet 21 Feb
1777 Neil M'Leod, alias macnishmacen, tenent in Durin, Angus 20 July
1780 Neil MacLeod, alias macnish macEan, tenent in Durin, and his wife Jane Campbell, alias nin Nish, Alexander
Question 1: Are Janet nin Nishvicorish and Jane Campbell the same person? I mean, they are each "nin Nish" so it seems like solid ground, but I'm looking for confirmation that it is more likely true than unclear.
Question 2: What is the likely English rendering of Rev. Thomson's phonetic transliteration "nin Nishvicorish"
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'Nic' is the feminine of 'Mac', so it neans 'daughter of'. 'Nighean' means 'daughter' so I would interpret Nin Nish as meaning 'daughter of daughter of'. But I am no expert on Gaelic nomenclature.
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Question 1: Not impossible, but equally not certain. Naultan/Aldan is on the Parph near Grudie, about four miles by foot from Sango, but there was only one Neil MacLeod in the records, so it's likely the man in Grudie and later in Sango and Durine is the same man, and thus the same wife.
Question 2: "Nin Nish" means "daughter of Angus". "Vicorish" is mhic Sheoras - "son of George".
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Question 1: Not impossible, but equally not certain. ... but there was only one Neil MacLeod in the records, so it's likely the man in Grudie and later in Sango and Durine is the same man, and thus the same wife.
thanks very much djct59. i appreciate the confirmation - it's not an air tight case, but is reasonable enough to state with some confidence moderated by some wiggle room.
also, there's this tangential older rootschat post by andy_smed from 2005, though it does not directly address my narrower question about jane campbell.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=45412.36
we're lucky that in 1779 rev. thomson suddenly began naming spouses in his baptism records. the three decade period in the durness register from 1779 to 1811 is a bit of a genealogy golden age in the parish due to the rich quality and quantity of baptism and marriage details that were recorded. rev. thomson was quirky and inconsistent in his spelling and his sentence construction, but marvelous at concisely including expressive detail.
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Naultan/Aldan is on the Parph near Grudie, about four miles by foot from Sango...
I see "Altanan" on the OS map, on the edge of the Parph where Allt Coire Freesgill flows to the southeast into Grudie River, and about a quarter mile northwest of Grudie. Is that likely the same as Naultan/Aldan?
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That's my understanding, and seems to fit with the marriage entry.
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wilros, with reference to your Christina Munro entry on Wikitree you might find this page interesting if you haven't seen it before :-)
http://cmy.iay.org.uk/resources/scullomie.htm
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BMAM73 - I presume you mean Angus MacKay MacEan'icIye (1749-1840), miller at Badlahavish, married to Barbara Manson from Reay on 16th November 1793 and interred with her at Arnaboll. That cemetery is virtually inaccessible now. The landowner makes it as difficult as possible to access it, even on foot. I've been there but it was not an easy trip.
The Angus MacKay, who was miller at Craigiemhulin and married to Catherine Morrison appears to be the same man, as he bears the same patronymic, has the same trade, and all his children with Catherine were born between 1778 and 1780. As you know, there is no record of their marriage in the parish register and his birth predates the birth records by fifteen years.
Referring back to this post last April, would I be right or wrong in assuming that Angus Mackay's alias maceanicye (also spelt in the DPR maceonicye and macenmhiclye) indicates that his father was called John and his grandfather was called Iye?
I ask the question because in the Book of Mackay (page 292) there is mentioned a Major Iye Mackay of Keoldale who had a son John in 1723 which would make him the right age to be Angus's father and in the right locality. Obviously impossible to prove but with the Book of Mackay tracing a line back to c.1085 it is fun to speculate.
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"Iye" is an Anglicisation of Aiodh - a very common name in Clan MacKay, which means "Sons of Aiodh". It was the forename of a number of clan chieftains.
Angus the miller could indeed be the major's grandson, but the name's not uncommon, so it's by no means certain.
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"Iye" is an Anglicisation of Aiodh - a very common name in Clan MacKay, which means "Sons of Aiodh". It was the forename of a number of clan chieftains.
Angus the miller could indeed be the major's grandson, but the name's not uncommon, so it's by no means certain.
Thankyou. As I said it's really just something to speculate on and I've also no idea how much the lineage given in the Book of Mackay can be relied upon. Perhaps the fact that he had the slightly elevated status of a miller adds a bit of credence to the possibility.
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I've come across some documents in the NRS catalogue which probably disprove my own theory regarding Angus Mackay's parentage so I think I should record it here for future reference.
In 1665 Major Iye Mackay made an assignation to his eldest son John and three siblings. This would indicate that John was born probably pre 1660 at least which would make him 90 or more when Angus Mackay was born in c.1749(assuming Angus's headstone has been correctly transcribed).
The reference to 1723 in the Book of Mackay that I referred to in my earlier post was probably to the "PRECEPT of CLARE CONSTAT by George, Lord Reay, in favour of John Mackay [McKay] in Ballimullich, son of deceased Major Iye Mackay" which only proves that John was alive in 1723.
With John being in Bailamhuic, very near to Craigiemhulin where Angus was firstly a miller, he does seem to be a strong candidate as Angus's father but for the age problem. Not impossible, but?
This link brings up the documents referred to:
http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/overview.aspx?st=2&tc=y&tl=n&tn=n&tp=n&k=&ko=a&r=GD84%2f1%2f21&ro=s&df=&dt=&di=y&dc=&dco=s&t=&to=o&
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Building out the family group of Roderick Sutherland of Sangomore who married Mary Mackay in Farr Parish on 31 January 1834. Angi Lamb's Durness birth and baptism index shows six children in their family, starting with Angus Sutherland on 2 December 1834 in Sangomore. The remaining 5 children were born in Leathad.
This family connects to my tree via their second child, Margaret Sutherland, b. 12 August 1839 in Leathad. Margaret married Angus Mackay on 3 August 1875 at Clibrig in Farr Parish, and died at Inverness on 28 March 1922. Informant on her death registration was her son-in-law William George Sutherland.
Where in Sutherland is Leathad?
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Leathad is Laid, on the west side of Loch Eriboll.
It was constructed as a clearance village. The crofters evicted from the townships in Strathmore and Strathbeg were given plots of land at Laid to farm. There are no entries in the parish register for Leathad until the 1820/30ss as the land was considered uninhabitable.
To be frank, the crofter were right; it was difficult to eke out a living from the rough peaty soil there. It was perhaps the last place on the UK mainland to obtain mains electricity - if memory serves it was linked to the National Grid in 1978. When I was a boy the crofts depended on wind generators to obtain any power and the crofters were all deeply impoverished.
It's now quite a thriving arty community. Lotte Glob has her sculpture croft there - (http://)
and there are the Croft 103 Eco homes available for rent nearby - https://www.croft103.com/
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Leathad is Laid, on the west side of Loch Eriboll.
djct59, Thanks very much. I didn't realise Leathad was Laid. UK Geograph has excellent photos of Laid.
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/596819
Those Eco accomodations look fabulous, though out of my price range.
Here's the five other children born at Leathad to Roderick Sutherland and Mary Mackay. As with other records from this era the dates are baptism, not birth.
Margaret Sutherland, b. 13 August 1839 at Leathad
Mary Sutherland, b. 13 August 1842 at Leathad
William Sutherland, b. 21 December 1844 at Leathad
Robert Sutherland, b. 26 February 1847 at Leathad
Kenneth Thomson Sutherland, b. 1 November 1853 at Leathad
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I'm stumped by the thin evidence here.
From ScotlandsPeople Old Parish Registers, Marriages 048/ 20/ 24 (page 24 of 37).
"1822 March 15 - At Saingobeg James Campbell Serv't Borley and Christian Dingwall dau. of Alex. Dingwall"
This page is not in Rev. Findlater's handwriting, and is signed at the bottom by "James Campbell, Sheriff substitute of Sutherland"
There's no corresponding baptism in the Durness Register for a Christian Dingwall of the right age to be the bride in this wedding, while the Durness Register follows the wedding with 4 sons baptised by James Campbell and Christian Dingwall from 1823 to 1834.
Perhaps Christian Dingwall daughter of Alexander Dingwall was not baptized? There was a three year gap between Alexander Dingwall's marriage to Christian Mackay of Uaibeg in 1797 and their first baptism of Neil Dingwall in 1800, so the Christian that married James Campbell could have been born before Neil but not baptized.
In the 1841 Census there is a James and Kitty Campbell household, with James identified as "Sheriff Officer" which is good confirmation for the James Campbell who transcribed the Durness Register pages. The James and Kitty Campbell household has four sons ages 10 to 20, all born in Sutherland. The youngest son Eric is 10 years, but ages in the 1841 census are unreliable due to the age rounding instructions given to census enumerators.
There is an Eric Campbell baptised on 18th May 1830 to parents James Campbell and Catherine McIntosh of Portcamill. Is this the James and Kitty Campbell household in the census? Throwing the search open to any Campbell born in Sutherland between 1815 and 1835 does not discover a second infant baptised to James Campbell and Catherine Mackenzie beyond Eric in any parish.
But my main pursuit here is Christian Dingwall daughter of Alexander Dingwall. I suspect that James Campbell servant at Borley and James Campbell Sheriff are not the same person, and that James Campbell servant at Borley and his family were gone before the 1841 census, and that his wife Christian Dingwall was the right age to be a daughter of Alexander Dingwall and his wife Christian Mackay.
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Wilros: You're getting confused by terminology.
A sheriff- substitute at that time was a legally qualified judge, of lower rank than a sheriff, but usually a post given to an advocate with substantial landholdings in the area, after he had spent some yerars practising law. The term "sheriff-substitute" was a misnomer, as they were the judge for the locality, subject to the direction of a sheriff who sat at a head court many miles away. The terms were replaced by the more accurate "sheriff" and "Sheriff principal" by the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1971.
A sheriff officer is the man who cites witnesses, serves writs and enforces court orders for debt, similar to an English bailiff. It is not a job requiring a legal qualification beyond a basic exam on the practice of the trade. It's a job commonly done nowadays by ex-cops, but in the 19th century might be done by a former soldier.
Therefore sheriff-substitute James Campbell and sheriff officer James Campbell are not the same man.
The James Campbell servant in Borley in 1822 could conceivably be a sheriff officer in 1841, although "Kitty" is more likely to be "Katherine", and he would need to have moved up in the world to jump from being a servant to a server of court documents. It's far from likely and the name is a common one.
The 1822 marriage appears to be a common law Scots irregular marriage being formalised by warrant of a court. This type of order has been discussed on Rootschat before.
Moving on to Christian Dingwall, I agree that the most plausible explanation is that her baptism record is missing. There is a rather surprising gap in the records for the second half of 1798, with eighteen baptisms from 5th January to 18th July, and only three for the rest of the year. This might imply that a page of paper records has been missed from Hew Morrison, and perhaps been lost completely. While a drop in births could be the result of catastrophe, I'm not wawre of any record that would explain it and the date fits your hypothesis.
Finally, migration to the west and south was becoming common by the early 19th century, so a departure to Canada or elsewhere is certainly feasible. Records by name are not readily accessible online.
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Finally, migration to the west and south was becoming common by the early 19th century, so a departure to Canada or elsewhere is certainly feasible. Records by name are not readily accessible online.
i found their grave - they emigrated to the same place where my 3x great-grandparents from sutherland emigrated - boularderie island, a small part of the cape breton archipelago.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194324276/christina-campbell
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194324275/james-campbell
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194299787/john-ross
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194299767/robina-ross
too funny...
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wilros has sent me the originals of the 1841 and 1851 census.
In 1841 I read the places named as Balachedrabhin, Charbreak, Regutter, Grudy and Sartgrum.
In 1851 there are only Balach and Grudy.
The Macleod family is in Balachedrabhin in 1841 and Balach in 1851.
Forfarian - returning to this same 1841 Census page we discussed a year ago. Our original discussion concerned the family of Alexander Macleod and Christy Mackay at Balachedrabhin, listed on the first seven lines on Page 1, which is the left hand side of the 1841 census enumeration document in the digital image. Turning to Page 2 on the right hand side of the census image on line 2 is Angus Macleod, age 60, who I believe is Alexander Macleod's father, Angus, born in Durine in 1777, son of Neil Macleod and Jane Campbell, and husband of Janet Ross (younger sister of my 3x GGF John Ross).
My primary question is simple: from the perspective of the enumerator on Sunday 6 June 1841 was Angus Macleod, age 60, a resident of Regutter or Grudy?
My first attempt at deciphering enumeration page 2 is that Angus (line 2) and William Weir (line 1) are part of the group on lines 22-25 on page 1, namely Janet, Bety, and Kity McKay. With this assumption Regutter would be where Angus was counted on 6 June.
My second question is how to translate "F S" as the occupation listed for Bety and Kity McKay.
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Sorry, Wilros, I have no idea where I might have filed that census image, so I can't look at it again and try to answer your question.
The FindMyPast transcriber lists him at Regulter. FREECEN doesn't yet have Durness.
'F S' means 'Female Servant'.
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Forfarian, thanks very much!
I read the enumeration page the same way.
Any idea where Regulter/Regutter is located?
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Sorry, I don't know, and in the absence of a transcription on FreeCEN I can't work it out by 'walking' the enumerator's route.
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Wilros, if you look at John Thomsons atlas of 1832 and follow the River Grudy south south west from the Kyle of Durness you'll find "Regolter".
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400145
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Wilros, if you look at John Thomsons atlas of 1832 and follow the River Grudy south south west from the Kyle of Durness you'll find "Regolter".
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400145
meanno -
what a beautiful map. i see it, thanks!
looks like thompson has misnamed the dionard the grudy.
looking in thompson's location on the os leisure map i see "Rhigolter" which is also present on the os standard map.
[wr]
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here's two uk geograph photos of rhigolter
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/887784
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1901039
[wr]
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From Durness Register:
Roderick MacLeod, from Sky(e), tacksman of Balnaceil, Mrs. Flora Bethune. William born 14 Sept 1787.
Mr. Donald Forbes of Ribigiell, Tongue
Miss Christie MacLeod, daur. of Mr. Roderick MacLeod, tacksman of Balnaciell, from the Isle of Sky(e)
marriage 20 Jan 1789.
Mr. Donald Forbes, tacksman of Ribigill and Balnaceil and Christian MacLeod, Flora born 1 Dec 1791
Balnaceil.
Source: Rev. Dr. Donald MacKinnon and Alick Morrison, THE MACLEODS: THE GENEALOGY OF A CLAN, Section III, "MacLeod Cadet Families", Edinburgh, The Clan MacLeod Society, 1970, pp. 191, 196. Roderick MacLeod, 3rd representative, appears frequently in Estate documents in the latter half of the 18th century. He married Flora, born 27th February 1752, younger daughter of the Rev. John Bethune or Beaton, minister of Glenshiel, with issue, 3 daughters.
Obviously, William is missing.
I have a (Lt.) John MacLeod who died "At Skeind Cottage, Melness, Sutherlandshire, on the 2d ultimo (2nd April), Mr John Macleod, formerly of the Forty-second Regiment, at an advance age (of 90)." Thursday, May 5, 1864 Publication: John O'Groat Journal
John MacLeod (1774-1864) parents Roderick McLeod and Flora McLeod (of Skye.)
Christian MacLeod is a sister to John MacLeod and lived at Skeind House with Maj. Donald Forbes.
Am I stretching things to suggest Flora McLeod is Flora Bethune?
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Ruighaghalldfhir on my Bartholemew's map. ;D
Skoosh.
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Sildeag: From the information provided it's certainly plausible, although MacLeod was not a particularly rare name in 18th century Sutherland. Certainly the names all fit, so unless you can locate another family it's a reasonable guess.
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Thanks.
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Does anyone have any further information on the Grange Campbells, where exactly they came from, and when (or why) they came to Durness from the south?
Websites have a George Campbell born abt. 1680 at Island Choarie, Durness, Sutherland, as the earliest Grange Campbell ancestor listed, but no information as to his parentage or where his family migrated in from.
Any information would be much appreciated!
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According to former local historian Graham Bruce, the Grange Campbells came from the southern lands around Loudon in Ayrshire and Kintyre. Following the defeat and execution for treason of Archibald Campbell, 8th Earl and 1st Marquess of Argyll in 1661, he having supported Cromwell's Commonwealth, being a Presbyterian or Covenanter was rather less safe, and tenancies could be given to thiose favoured by the new Royalist regime, so many Campbells moved north into the Dùthaich Mhic Aoidh (Mackay Country), where they were amongst fellow Presbyterians. While the Lords Reay were Royalist, they were perhaps reluctant Covenanters, and thus were Presbyterians. The history of Scottish religious conflict in the 17th century is a confusing one, with factions splitting, and switching sides in the civil wars, and a great many violent deaths - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Time.
It is considered likely that the Grange Campbells settled in Durness in the late 17th/early 18th century; by the time proper parish records existed in 1764 there were at least ten discrete Grange/Graschich Campbell familes spread across the parish, although there is really no solid evidence of a birth in 1680. It does, though, fit the proposal that they moved north after the execution of the Marquess.
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Thank you for this clarification! Your response is much appreciated.
I assumed the move had to do with political elements, including the Covenanter movement, but it's great (and fascinating) to know the full spectrum of events in Scotland at the time that would have lead to these particular Campbells fleeing north.
It is too bad the Durness Parish Register only dates back as far as 1764, which means any concrete information on earlier generations of the Grange Campbells is probably lost to history (unless you have some suggestions as to how one might trace things more accurately without reference to the parish records, of course).
Would there be work(s) by Graham Bruce worth investigating in terms of potential genealogical information?
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Graham Bruce retired several years ago and left the village. I know he had (has?) an original of Hew Morrison's 1911 published Parish register which includes some pages not in the digital versions you can find online.
In terms of tracing Grange Campbells the biggest problem is that, being relative newcomers to the parish, in the late 18th century they were not known by two or three generation patronymics common amongst more local residents. Some information could be gleaned from the cemetery records, as some early 19th century graves specify ages of the deceased whoch can add a little to the published records, Unfortunately, Angi Lamb, who transcribed the records, and Christine Stokes, who published photographs of all the graves, both died within the last two years, and I don't believe anyone has yet succeeded in restoring the photo archive (formerly at http://burial-grounds-suth.blogspot.com/) online.
Some years ago I created a list of the various Grange Campbell families and where they lived in the parish, but I cannot lay my hands on it at the moment. As I recall, a number of them had more "Lowland" first names than were common in Sutherland. If I find my notes I'll post the details.
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Well....there is evidence in the parish records for the existence of George Campbell Grange in the late 17th century.
Kenneth Campbell alias Grange, living in Durine then Croispol and married to Janet Campbell, is designed as MacNishmacEorish - son of Angus the son of George. Kenneth and Janet had their first child baptised in 1784, so Kenneth is likely to have been born c. 1755, making a grandfather born on the 1680s plausible.
The Granges initally settled the narrow strip between the Kyle of Durness and Durine on the north coast - Hugh, John (a Chelsea Pensioner) and Donald MacRob in Sarsgrum/Keodale, Alexander in Achunahanait, another Donald in Keodale, Thomas in Croispol, Iye/Aiodh in Durine and George in Balvoolich. Donald MacRob moved north-east to Ceannabeinne and then to Eilean Choraidh by the late 1770s.
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Many thanks for your detailed responses! And very interesting about the confirmation of the existence of a George Campbell Grange in the late 17th century. This certainly lends insight into the validity of some of the research I've been able to accomplish online.
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Could anyone help interpret these aliases, married 4 Aug 1775:
Hugh Mackay, alias Macenicenicdholicuilam, in Shinnins . . . Isobel Mackay, alias nin Achinmacdholicachinskerray, in Erriboll
I read the groom as Hugh son of ? son of Donald son of William, where the missing generation must be John. In the baptisms of his children, Hugh is variously:
Macen mhic En mhic Dholicuilleam (13 Jun 1776)
macEanmacdholicuilleam (4 Jan 1781)
macenicolicein (17 Jan 1787)
Maceaniceanicolicein (30 Jan 1792)
I read the bride as Isobel daughter of hector son of Donald son of Hector of Skerray.
This family mostly immigrated to Prince Edward Island.
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Struggling a bit, but 'nic' is the feminine of 'mac' and means 'daughter of'.
Why the genealogy should sometimes give the male line and sometimes a female line I have no idea.
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Struggling a bit, but 'nic' is the feminine of 'mac' and means 'daughter of'.
Forfarian, you are right, if it were normative Scots Gaelic 'nic' would be daughter of. But the transcriptions in question seem to be Hew Morrison's heavy editing of Rev. Thomson's unique on-the-fly-and-meandering transliterations of Scots Gaelic, hence I discard normative spelling rules to make a best guess.
For context my 4x GGF Hugh Ross (1731-1799 + buried at Balnakeil) brought infants to Rev. Thomson for baptism in '66, '68, '71, '75, '78, and '81, and the result was a similar set of meandering and creative variations that collectively kind of approximate his patronymic.
Fiveraliver, I read the groom you describe as "son of John son of John son of George son of William" and I'm not certain how to read the bride. However, I'm concerned that the four baptisms you mention are not all the same parents, i.e., the married couple Hugh-Mackay+Isobel-Skerray-Mackay. For example, Angi Lamb did not explicitly merge together the four Hugh+Isobel baptism entries in your post as a single couple in her "Index of Sutherland Durness Baptisms and Births 1764-1874." Let me know if you don't have Angi's document - it's posted in several places, such as in the Sutherland County Family History group on Facebook. Or you can PM me your email and I'll send it to you.
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Fiveraliver: Like Wilros I am not 100% convinced, but on balance I think that the Hugh and Isobel MacKay in Shinnins and the Hugh and Isobel in Faolinn are the same people. While I haven't been able to locate Shinnins on any local map (I think it was on the bank of Loch Eriboll but am happy to be corrected). the house at Faolinn can be seen on the 1874 O.S. map.
There is no other marriage listed with the same two names, and if my guess is correct they have only moved a short distance.
As has been pointed out, Reverend Thomson's recording of patronymics was never a model of consistency. Hugh is either "son of John son of Donald" or "son of John son of John son of Donald"- on balance I would favour the latter, which fits the 1776 and 1792 entries.
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Thanks to all have replied, I appreciate the input. I have just now joined the Sutherland Family History Facebook group; thank you for the hint about the Angi Lamb transcription, which I have not seen before.
Hugh and Isobel were married in 1775 in Shinnans. I believe these were their children:
1776 (baptism of John) – location: Island Choarie (island in Loch Eriboll) (Died before 1792, based on later child named John.)
1781 (baptism of Ann) – location: Iveran of Eriboll (Married Donald Mackay, weaver at Phaolin. Sons William and Hugh. Immigrated to to New London, PEI in 1806, later removed to Guernsey Cove, PEI about 1821.)
1784 (baptism of Barbara) – location: Balamhulich (Married John Corbett and remained in Durness. Several of her children immigrated to New London, PEI)
1787 (baptism of Hector) – location: Phaolin (southern end of Loch Eriboll) (Hector immigrated to New London, PEI in 1815 and removed to Guernsey Cove, PEI about 1821. Married in Durness Margaret Campbell.)
1792 (baptism of John) – location: Phaolin (John immigrated to New London, PEI in 1815 and removed to Guernsey Cove, PEI about 1821. Married Janet Anderson in PEI. This family and that of his brother Hector are listed side by side in the 1881 Census.)
I am reasonably certain that Ann, Hector and 2nd John are siblings since they all lived on adjacent farms in Guernsey Cove, PEI and I have an abundance of DNA matches among the descendants of Hector and 2nd John. I am less certain about 1st John and Barbara, but they seem to fit.
I am not sure about the locations of Shinnans and Balamhulich, but the others are all proximate to Loch Eriboll.
- Ian
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Balmhulich is the high ground next to Durine in the centre of the modern village. as you drive in from the south and turn towards Balnakeil it's the houses on the left, so a good ten miles by road from the croft at Creag na Faolinn at the southern tip of Erriboll. Mind you, by foot over the Bealach it's only about six miles, although the terrain is not easy.
Still haven't located Shinnins.
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Still haven't located Shinnins.
It couldn't be Shinary, could it?
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It appears so often in Hew Morison as "Shinnins" that I am dubious... ???
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Oh well, it's always worth a bit of speculation, even if it turns out to be wrong.
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I accidently left out one more child of the above couple.
1783 (baptism of James) – location: Eriboll (James immigrated to New London, PEI and died before 1865; he married an unknown woman and had a sons Angus b. abt. 1822 Scotland and William b. abt. 1830 PEI.
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There was a James MacKay, listed as "merchant in Glasgow" who married Mary Gunn in Arnaboll on 6th May 1815.
While Arnaboll is now almost inaccessible, the path from Eriboll to Arnaboll still exists and could be driven by car into the 1990s, although you would need a quad bike now.
"Your" James would be 32, so he might have retained some connection to his place of origin and married someone known to his family.