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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: genealogistsykes on Saturday 06 April 13 11:21 BST (UK)
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Looking for more children for William Sykes (c.1752-1802) and Betty Sykes (c.1761-1852) [nee. Depledge]. They married on 20th December 1782 in York.
I already have one child; Samuel Sykes (1792-1865) born in West Bretton, Yorkshire. Married Mary Watson. Got all the information on him.
I may of found four more children of William and Betty: Samuel Sykes (b.c.1791), John Sykes (b.c.1789), Matthew Sykes (b.c.1794), and Thomas Sykes. They were all born in West Bretton, Yorkshire and were located with the same batch number as Samuel Sykes (1792-1865). Betty's father was John Depledge. She was born in West Bretton, Yorkshire.
I also found a burial date for a Betty Sykes, states her spouse as being William Sykes, she was buried on the 30 Dec 1792 in Almondbury, York. - This could be her? which would mean that my death date is wrong for her.
Could someone please establish if the other four children are other children of William and Betty Sykes please. If possible, could you also please find out if any of them married etc.
Thanks,
Kind Regards,
GenealogistSykes
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Hi
From the registers of West Bretton, no mother listed.
Julia bab. 1 Nov. 1783 dau of William
William bap 4 Jun 1785 son of William
Ann bap. 24 Aug. 1787 dau. of William Sykes
John " 2 Jul 1789 son of William
Samuel bap. 1 Oct 1791 son "
Matthew " 5 Mar 1794 " " (burial of Matthew son of William 23 June 1795)
Luke " 12 Mar 1797 " "
Joseph " 23 Feb 1799 " "
Thomas " 4 Feb. 1801 " "
claire
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They might all be his children. However, there is no real way of finding out if they really are. Is there? William Sykes's birth is given as 1757 on FamilySearch and Betty's is given as 1761. That would make them at least in their 40's. Need an opinion on this?
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Hi
My Great grandparents married in 1880 and by 1901 had had 17 children, not impossible!
claire
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Jeez, that's a lot of kids. So would you say that they are all of William's kids?
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I've got a good feeling that Julia, William, Ann, John and Samuel are all the children of William and Betty Sykes. I found a burial date for a Betty Sykes in 1792, this date could link to the birth of Samuel Sykes born in 1792. William Sykes is given as her spouse. Also, John was the name of her father. So this adds weight to the children being theirs, as well as the name William.
What's your viewpoint on this?
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Hi
I went through the registers from 1782-1802 and there were no other Sykes families baptising children in there ( unless I missed one) until the late 1790's and that was a James Sykes.
Families often followed a naming pattern when having kids, so I think they could be the right family.
claire
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Okay. So could the later children, i.e. Luke, Joseph and Thomas be the children of James Sykes? The death for Betty might have to be cleared up as well, if she was buried in 1792 then she couldn't of had Matthew through to Thomas. It could be the wrong Betty seeing as I state her date of death as being in 1852. Trying to go back over the dates and firming up if they are correct or wrong. The death in 1792 was buried in Almondbury, was that close to West Bretton? Confused. Need to determine if that was Betty or not.
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Hi
Luke, Joseph and Thomas are definitely the children of William Sykes, the actual registers can be viewed on Anc***ry,
just found this, was Betty ever known as Elizabeth?
Burials ~ St Peter with West Bretton
Elizabeth, wife of William Sykes buried 5 March 1794, Sandal.
Could William have married again?
claire
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Okay. So we've got them nailed down then. Not as far as I know. Her name is given as "Betty" on familysearch but she could of been known as Elizabeth. I think that is her. That's what I was thinking, William could of married again. I don't know a lot about William and Betty.
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Hi,
Almondbury and West Bretton are about 8.5 miles from each other regards the burial, its quite possible William could have remarried, there are a few marriages in that area after 1794-1800.
claire
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I think William could have married again. Found a possible marriage:
William Sykes:
b.1757
m. 1796 - Parish Church of Sandal
Spouse: Ann Aston (b.1761).
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Hi
Could definitely be the right marriage, have checked his marriage to Betty, he signed the marriage cert. then and it's a very similar signature! on his marriage to Betty one of the witnesses was a William LINDLEY, on his marriage to Ann one of the witnesses was a Jemima LINDLEY.
Marriage detaills: 7 Jan 1796, William of the parish, Ann of the parish of Silkstone.
Winesses: Jemima Lindley and Thos. Ashton???
claire
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Brilliant, so I think we have our second marriage. Would you be able to send me the marriage cert? Would love to have a copy of his signature and cert. Next step is to find their children. Searched on FamilySearch and their are loads of children born to a William Sykes and Ann. Their births are scattered all over the place, so I'm not sure how we could narrow it down.
So William was of the parish "Sandal Magna", would that mean that William was born in this parish? Or he could of just been residing there. Are there any records that we could obtain to find out what his occupation was and who his parents were? I've always noted his parents as being; Samuel Sykes and Mary Rhodes. Someone previously searched for him a year back. However, the DOB's aren't correct.
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Not sure of the situation in the Channel Islands, but UK libraries have access to Ancestry.co.uk. If so, you could look for the marriage entry and download the image to a memory stick.
Also I see that the marriage was by Licence, and so perhaps the Borthwick Institute in York might have the original Marriage Bond and Allegation (if it has survived) - and again you could ask them for a copy - it costs £5.00.
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No need to worry about that now. Just be on the chat room and people with Ancestry have emailed me both the records. What's our next step?
Betty had the following siblings: Julia, Thomas, Ann, Mary, William, William, Sarah, John, and Richard. There is a pattern with the names. William and Betty's children in my opinion were named after Betty's siblings. You have Julia, William, Ann, and John (John being the father of Betty). You also have Samuel (Samuel is noted down as being the father to William - could of been named after him) and Matthew may be an anomaly. I wonder if the other children born to WILLIAM SYKES in West Bretton were those of his second marriage? It fits the date range.
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Hi
Think these are Williams children with Ann
Christenings at Bretton Chapel
Charles bap. 21 June 1803 son of William Sykes and Ann his wife, Bretton
Sarah, daughter of William Sykes, privately bapt. 21 Sept. 1805, received into the church 5 April 1806 Sandal.
claire
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Looks correct to me. Charles and Sarah should be on the 1841 Census.
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May of found William Sykes's occupation: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=DIR_SOCIETY&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=William&gsln=Sykes&msbdy=1757&msrpn__ftp=West+Bretton%2c+Yorkshire%2c+England&msrpn=89341&msrpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5292%7c89341%7c0%7c&cpxt=1&uidh=lcf&cp=11&mssng0=Ann&so=2 , with the father Samuel Sykes.
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Hi
No, this isnt him the year is 1827 and this William Sykes is a minor from Dunningley in West Ardsley.
claire
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Okay do we know when William died and when ann died. Cant find charles on 1841 census
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Hi
Not sure of birth years but there are burials in Sandal Magna
Ann Sykes buried 29 May 1824 Bretton, Sandal. Aged 59 years
William Sykes buried 10 Nov 1824 Bretton, Silkstone. Aged 69 years.
Can't find Charles in 1841 either, his last two children were born in Cheshire, Sarah 1839 and Eleannor 1845, so they must be there presuming its the correct Charles.
claire
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Wonder if this could be him, taking into account ages were rounded down in 1841, his age is correct daughter Sarah a year out.
Charles Sykes 35 wood sawyer not born in county
Carter??? " 30 " " "
William " 7 " " "
Sarah " 3 " " "
Class HO107 Piece 113 Book 5. Stockport.
claire
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That is more than likely to be him then. Is carter his wife's surname? The deaths for Ann and William are several years out if stating that Ann was born in 1761 and William was born in 1757 which was provided by familysearch.
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Please, please, please do not rely totally on Family Search!!! It is merely a finding aid - you HAVE to look at the parish records themselves!
And in any case, the age at death is merely based on the knowledge of the informant. Dead people can't speak ;D
I believe that Charles' wife's name is Easter (Esther).
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I always thought that FamilySearch was the parish records, but transcribed and put on the internet. Is there anyway of finding out what William's occupation was? Directories maybe?
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Hi
Maybe Charles had a second marriage, to a Sarah.
Death Sept 1842 Stockport~ Esther Sykes
Daughter Elleanor bapt ~ 26 May 1845 , Wrenbury, Cheshire, England. Parents: Charles and Sarah
claire
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Yes, most of Family Search is based on transcriptions of parish registers, but only the main details are shown, such as parents for baptism entries. However, if you look at the parish registers themselves then there is very often more detail, such as occupations and abode, which all help to pinpoint the correct family connections.
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Where are these parish registers then? I presume that I would have to go to the Church to see them or to the National Archives, unless they are online. I live in the Channel Islands so visiting the NA or Churches isn't really an option.
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Assuming you have a Latter Day Saints church in your area, they usually have a History Centre attached and you are able to order films of the parish registers through them. When they arrive, you will be able to view them at the centre. Not sure of the present-day hire cost, but probably under £10.00. Looks like there is a Centre in Rue de Lane, St Helier.
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Oh, didn't know we had one over here in Jersey. Will pop in some time!
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Are there any records apart from Parish Registries to tell us what William Sykes's occupation was? Directories etc?
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You could try www.historicaldirectories.org but I think you might be a bit early for them - not a lot before 1820s.
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Okay I'll give it a shot. Are there any other records that we could find on William, just general records that would add any small detail of information?
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Not sure about general records BUT I notice that both William's marriages were by Licence. May I suggest that you contact the Borthwick Institute in York as there is a possibility that the Marriage Bonds and Allegations may have survived, and if so, these will indicate an occupation for William and his marital status, and the Borthwick is where the originals are held for the Diocese of York. You already have the dates of the marriages, and as the index is on their internal computer network, it would not be too difficult for them to check.
www.york.ac.uk/inst/bihrIf I remember rightly the cost of a copy is £5.00. Just give them all the information you already have on the marriages, which will make their task a lot easier. :)
new website address: www.york.ac.uk/library/borthwick
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Okay, I'll do that now. What's so significant about a Marriage License?
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If the couple didn't wish to wait for 3 weeks for the Banns to be read - for whatever reason - they could apply for a Marriage Licence from the Diocese. The groom had to appear personally and had to make certain statements - how old he was, his marital status, his occupation, and who he intended to marry. It usually also states the marriage venue. The marriage bond, attached to the allegation, meant that the groom and other person(s) pledged to pay a sum of money, I think usually £200 (so a lot), if the marriage was illegal through consanguinity, there was an impediment to the marriage, or the marriage did not take place, then that sum was forfeit. If the marriage did take place, then the bond was released. So an interesting couple of pages!
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Oh right that is interesting. Hopefully they did survived. I've emailed them already. Do we know who Ann's parents were? I'd like to find out who William's parents were. I've always noted them as being Samuel Sykes and Mary Rhodes.
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You won't get that information from a Marriage Licence unless one of them was a minor and was marrying with the consent of the father. However, the ages given on the Allegation may help to narrow the field, and occupation may also point in the right direction.
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Oh Okay, well hopefully they have them!
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With the help of some members I found Charles on the 1851 Census:
Charles Sykes, 42, b - Yorkshire, Bretton.
Sarah Sykes, 49, b - Yorkshire
Mary Ann Sykes, 12, b - Yorkshire Drilington
Charles Sykes, 16, b - Yorkshire Drilington
Sarah J. Sykes, 12, b - Cheshire, Wembury.
Eleanor Sykes, 5, b - Cheshire, Wembury.
Thomas Sykes, 22, Gamekeeper, b - Cheshire, Wembury.
Charles is a gamekeeper. I can't make out what relation Thomas Sykes is to Charles - I can't make out the word, looks like son but I don't think it is.
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The entry for Thomas is "Serv(ant)" - 22 - gamekeeper - born Wrenbury, Cheshire
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I thought it may of been servant at first glance, but why does he have the surname Sykes?
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Because that's his name :o Family relationships weren't always shown as we would know them!
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Right okay! haha. Can't find Charles in 1861.
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Found a Sarah Sykes being buried in Wakefield, Yorkshire in 1813. Her year of birth is given as 1813. Her parents are William Sykes and Ann Sykes. I think this could be another child of William and Ann. West Bretton is a civil parish in the City of Wakefield. So we are still in the correct place. William date of death has to be post 1813. Unless Sarah does not belong to the family.
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Found 5 more possible children:
Ann Sykes chr. 1805 - All Saints, Wakefield.
William Sykes chr. 1808 - All Saints, Wakefield.
John Sykes chr. 1801 - All Saints, Wakefield.
Elizabeth Sykes chr. 1810 - All Saints, Wakefield.
Mary Sykes chr. 1803 - All Saints, Wakefield.
Parents = William Sykes and Ann. A bit of a long shot but could be their children. However in 1803 Charles was born in West Bretton Yorkshire, Wakefield. The births that I found do specify where they were born in Wakefield. They may of been born in West Bretton but I'm not too sure.
Any suggestions. There are so many children born to a William Sykes and Ann from 1796-1813. That was my date range, using their marriage and their possible daughter (Sarah Sykes - 1813-1813).
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OK! We have Charles baptised 21 June 1803 at Bretton Chapel - son of William and Ann, and we have Sarah privately baptised 21 September 1805 and received into church 5 April 1806. And these dates would logically blend in with the baptisms at West Bretton 1783-1801.
And now we have Mary baptised 10 September 1803, and Ann baptised 24 August 1805 at All Saints, Wakefield. Plus other children, baptised later.
Uhhhhhhmmmm!! I think we perhaps have more than one William Sykes marrying Ann ? Sorry :'(
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Okay, well we'll just stick to the two children that we have now. Instead of working forward, I'd like to try and work back. The marriage records state that William was of the parish, meaning that he was of the parish of Sandal Magna. Could it be possible that he was born in that parish? Elizabeth/Betty Depledge was born in West Bretton, Yorkshire. Maybe he was born in West Bretton as well?
It's a shame that there weren't any census records for the 18th century!
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"Of the parish" only means that that is where he/they was living at the time of the marriage. He could have been born anywhere.
On looking at the marriage records again, I do notice that "Lindley" occurs on both of them as witnesses: Jemima on William/Ann Aston, and William on William/Betty ;D Might this be a clue?
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Okay. I have no idea, maybe they were his cousins? or some relation, they could of just been his friends? Not sure.
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According to records this William Skyes married Betty Deplidge 20 Dec 1782 by licence age 27 years on his bond allegation -The original bond held at Borthwick Uni York will give his Occupation
example--This link will give you an idea what Bond allegations (2 pages) look like
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11783-164010-55?cc=1675718&wc=MMBR-5YS:1745472604
Baptised
William Sykes
08 Aug 1755
HORBURY,YORK,ENGLAND
parent William Sykes
or
William Sikes
14 Jun 1755
ALL SAINTS,WAKEFIELD,YORK,ENGLAND
parent Edward. Sikes
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Or maybe this one
William Sykes bapt. 10 July 1756 Woolley, St Peter with West Bretton.
Father: William Sykes.
claire
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That sound like the one? unless another pops up being a very common name around them parts.
Depending on his families wealth? Wills probate, headstone info in Wolley graveyard of the father William or overseers records if poor.
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I'm still slightly perplexed as to the origins of William Sykes. We can agree that he married Betty in 1782 in Sandal Magna, and Ann in 1796, but his birth is yet to be confirmed.
If indeed he was born in West Bretton, I can't seem to find his father's marriage. Also, there is a William Sykes, born in 1746 to Samuel Sykes in Sandal Magna, does this not seem more probable owing to William's place of marriage, death, and the fact that his father is 'Samuel', the name of his son.
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Not sure whether this is any help, but I have Sykes in my family. William Sykes (1819) married(1888) Jane Teasdale.. they had a daughter called Jane also, she married George Jackson (I am a Jackson).
Siblings for Jane Sykes:
James
Thomas
Stephen
Ann
Betsy
Eliasha Teasdale Sykes
Joseph