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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cavan => Topic started by: Morris2013 on Tuesday 09 April 13 07:01 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have no experience of trying to search records in Ireland and wondered if someone could help me.
On my tree, I have a couple who emigrated to New Zealand but who were from County Cavan.
A Matilda McCullough and a William Adams, and I have found some details for them on another tree in Ancestry
Would there be any record surviving of a possible marriage for them in Bailieboro 16th Dec 1851
The Matilda McCullough may have been born/baptised in Bailieboro 17th Nov 1834
The William Adams may have been born/baptised in Durnaskea, Cootehill, Cavan about 1815
I am waiting to see if the owner of the other tree on Ancestry will contact me, but would be grateful for any advice you may have in trying to search for them.
Kind Regards
Morris
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Possible marriage on the Irish BMD Index on FamilySearch :
Name : William Adams
Record Type: Marriage
Year : 1851
Registration District: Bailieborough
Volume : 1 / Page: 538
A 'Matilda Mccullough' appears with the same references (district, year, volume & page), so a possible bride.
Since this is a civil marriage record before 1864, it suggest that the couple were non-Catholic. For notes on ordering a cert with further details of the marriage - see :
Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,599538.0.html)
Details included on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html)
and : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
p.s. There's also an extracted version of the marriage on FamilySearch which gives a date, and confirms the couples names, and some of the other details - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGCQ-G31
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Thank you for the reply.
I had not realised that the statutory records for marriage started as early as 1851.
From what I read in the links, does that mean that any births for 1817 or 1834 which preceed statutory records, and might only be in parish records at that time, because they are probably not Catholic or Church of Ireland would no longer exist ?
Regards
Morris
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From what I read in the links, does that mean that any births for 1817 or 1834 which preceed statutory records, and might only be in parish records at that time, because they are probably not Catholic or Church of Ireland would no longer exist ?
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Depends on the denomination and possibly which church they attended.
The Church of Ireland parish for the town of Bailieborough and immediate area is also called Bailieborough, and it looks like baptisms are available back to 1824, marriages to 1809, death/burials back to 1809.
The term parish only applies to RC and Church of Ireland churches, other denominations used different systems.
As far as I can see there were two Presbyterian congregations in or near Bailieborough - 1st and 2nd, but only see mention of baptisms going back to 1861.
S.
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....because they are probably not Catholic or Church of Ireland would no longer exist ?
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dont quite get this part or your reply.... the marriage was non-Catholic, so probably a Protestant Ceremony - e.g. Church of Ireland, Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist etc
The other option for a marriage civil registered before 1864 is one in a registry office.
A marriage cert would give the name and denomination of the church, and also current residences for the bride and groom which could help the search. E.g. using Griffith's valuation, and Tithe records...
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Thanks
The marriage in 1851 was Presbyterian, and the births/baptisms in 1817 and 1834, pre-statutory records, might only be in church records
The link you sent 'Introduction to Irish Records - Church Records' mentions Catholic Records and Church of Ireland Records ...but nothing about Presbyterian Records, which was why I asked whether such early church records still existed for that denomination ?
I'm sorry if I did not express myself as clearly as I should have.
Thank you for your help
Regards
Morris
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sorry - didn't see a mention of them being Presbyterian before.
The help topic only mentions RC and CofI records as these were the two more common denominations, and so seem to be slightly better documentation as to what is available.
The best places for Presbyterian records would be in Belfast either in the PRONI, or the Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland also has many records, but neither have actual records online. The Historical Society do have a list of congregations on their website - which can help : Search Congregations (http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com/index.php?id=searchcongregations)
My source for the dates available for Presbyterian records was Ryan's Irish Records, but worth following up in case there are earlier records elsewhere (The ones he details may just be the dates in local custody).
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The William Adams may have been born/baptised in Durnaskea, Cootehill, Cavan about 1815
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wonder this might be an alternate spelling for the townland of Dernaskeagh, which is located about 10km west of the town of Cootehill.
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Hi Shane
I have contacted PRONI in Belfast to see if they may hold any Presbyterian Church Records for County Cavan for the period.
I'll let you know if I have any sucess. The two people are on several family trees on Ancestry, and I may be able to assist a number of others if I have any luck with the search.
Thanks again for the advice
Morris
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No need to contact PRONI- here's their list of church records which do include some Cavan churches-
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index_to_presbyterian_records-2.pdf
This list gives dates of earliest records-
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fianna/county/cavan/cavpres.html
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I have access to Presbyterian Church records for the Bailieborough area. In the marriage register of 1st Bailieborough (Corglass) Presbyterian Church which commences April 1845 I find the following: December 16th 1851 William Adams, 24 years, bachelor, farmer, Durnaskea. Father John Adams, farmer. Matilda McCullaugh, 17 years, spinster, Tatareagh. Father Thomas McCullaugh, farmer. Witnessed by Richard Adams and Jane Adams. Minister, Patrick White.
The townland of Durnaskea is obviously spelled wrong, it may well be as suggested Dernakesh, as it is a townland closer to Cootehill than Bailieborough. If you take the townland of Tatareagh which is close to Corglass the proper spelling is Tattyreagh, this shows that the minister wrote it as it sounded and as he perceived it was spelled. To the best of my knowledge the Adams name in the area was Church of Ireland. Baptismal records for Corglass commence Sept 1861. You can contact me at (*) Regards, Les.
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Thanks for checking Les :) I've sent a pm
Kind Regards
Morris
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http://www.presbyterianireland.org/About-Us/Find-a-Church/Church/Bailieborough-First?id=3451
http://www.bailie-publications.com/index.html
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First Bailieborough Presbyterian Church (Corglass)
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My father, Samuel Adams was born in Cootehill at Killaliss (sp?) house to Henry and Elizabeth (Foy). The Adams family in the area were Church of Ireland and when I visited the area, many years ago, a cousin brought me to the church, which I think was All Saints. There were records and grave stones at the church going well back and I think that the main branch of the family was in Shercock and/or Corrranearry House. The family traces it's origins in Ireland to Col. James Adams who married Catherine Magennis the granddaughter of the Earl of Tyrone (O'Neill) circa 1620. His son, Capt James Adams had two sons. Samuel Adams of Monaghan whose family went extinct in 1903 and heir Capt James Adams of Monaghan and later Corranearry House.
My father emigrated first to Australia and later to the US and the home and lands went to his older brother also a William. My mother who my father met in NY was also from Cavan and a Hall. The Hall family was Presbyterian.
I don't know if it is still available but there was "A Genealogical History of the Family of Adams of Cavan" written by Rev. Benjamin William Adams D.D. The publication date is London 1903. Some of the information in this is available in Burkes "Landed Gentry".
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Morris,
I may well be the owner of the Ancestry tree you refer to. William Adams 1827?-1882 and Matilda McCullough (1834 - 1922) were my great grandparents. Williams parents are believed to be John Adams and Jane Montgomery. I have relevant birth/marriage certificates.
For further information please feel free to contact me at (ashley.adams@godfrey.co.nz).
Regards,
A Adams