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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: iwccc on Friday 26 April 13 07:11 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have any photographs of the Whitby Abbey at Gallipoli 1915. My grandfather was on board this ship and I would love to have a photo of him/the ship/ etc. I believe it was sunk by Turkish shell fire (from the shore) in May, 1915. He served as a Cook/
Cooks Mate.
I would also appreciate any information/photos of the other ships he served on: viz
HMS Victory, HMS Rodean, HMS Hyderabad, HMS Medway. Thank you in anticipation.
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Have you tried google?
I found this photo of the Whitby Abbey:
http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Ships/Old%20Ships%20W/index11.html
You might find the others on the same site. No idea if you will ever find a photo of it actually at Gallipoli though. (or maybe the one above was taken there?) :)
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Thanks for the suggestion and link to photos. Much appreciated.
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A little more complicated than that. There were two vessels named WHITBY ABBEY involved in the Gallipoli campaign.
One was a requisitioned Merchant Ship official number 128091
http://www.lner.info/ships/NER/whitby_abbey.shtml
and the other a hired Paddle Tug which was used as a minesweeper HMS WHITBY ABBEY Most of the logbooks of this vessel are stored at TNA Kew.
As far as I am aware, both vessels survived the First World War.
If your Grandfather was Royal Navy which I suspect he was, It is likely he served on the Minesweeper but it may have been on the Merchant ship. I am afraid there is little chance of determining which one.
Incidentally, the first ship ie WHITBY ABBEY 01 shown in the photoship link was a much later ship built in 1954.
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That's all very interesting seaweed, but also a bit frustrating that there are two Whitby Abbeys. :)
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I have recorded that he (George Fluke) was on HMS Whitby Abbey (a Mine sweeper) from 26th Feb. 1915 to 26th May, 1915. - Act. Cooks Mate. then from 26th May, 1915 to 27th May, 1918 - Cooks Mate (sunk by Turkish shell fire from the shore)
I would still love a photo of this ship (preferably at Gallipoli) Does anyone know where I can get one?
Also is there any written account of the ship being fired on from shore etc.?
Once again any help would be appreciated.
p.s. This grandfather served in the Territorials, London, then the British Navy WW1 and when he came to Australia he joined the Australian Air Force. Interesting eh? His wife worked in the Woolwich Arsenal.
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Hands Up! Looks like I made a booboo!
I have looked at this one again and there is some confusing information out there, both on the internet and written sources. All these sources have a common denominator. The tonnage of the ship and the year of build. This leads me to conclude there was likely only one vessel with the name WHITBY ABBEY involved in the Gallipoli campaign.
I can find no evidence that this vessel was sunk although it seems she did come under shell fire and sustain casualties.
To try and reach a satisfactory conclusion. Next time I am at TNA I will take a look at the vessels logbook for April, May, June 1915. Although the logbook is primarily a navigational document it should say wether or not the vessel was sunk and give detail of casualties.
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thanks for input. Looking forward to hearing what you find out. I know my grandfather was in more than one sinking during the war - would be good to find out his whole naval history. I believe he was also on the HMS Victory, Rodean, Hyderabad, Medway. Thanks again
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I have recorded that he (George Fluke) was on HMS Whitby Abbey (a Mine sweeper) from 26th Feb. 1915 to 26th May, 1915. - Act. Cooks Mate. then from 26th May, 1915 to 27th May, 1918 - Cooks Mate (sunk by Turkish shell fire from the shore)
Where did you get this information from?
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This is from family history. We have his diary of the landing of Gallipoli and as far as I know this is a translation from that record. I'm not too sure about the 'sinking' part of the story. That is why I am trying to get more information. He always told us that he had a couple of ships sunk from under him. Thanks for your interest
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If WHITBY ABBEY was sunk she must have been raised, repaired and given back to her owners after the war.
She was broken up by Hughs Bocklow at Blyth commencing 13/2/1936
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-8014784&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CWHITBY%2CABBEY&accessmethod=0
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iwccc,
You are very lucky to have your grandfather's diary recording the events of the day. Have you actually read it yourself? I am only asking as you seem a little vague about the details, so if possible it would be good if you could either read it yourself or ask for a direct transcription from whoever has it in their possession. Maybe some of the details got a bit mixed up if the story was passed down a generation or two. :)
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There's a website here which says that Brigade Headquarters was on the Whitby Abbey
http://www.dublin-fusiliers.com/battaliions/1-batt/campaigns/1915-gallipoli.html
You would think that if the ship being used as Brigade headquarters was sunk then it would have been written about somewhere...although we don't know when he says it was sunk... so HQ could have been on another ship by then.
Milly
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thanks for all the answers. I have read the diary - although I admit it was some years ago. Maybe time to get possession again and re-read. Maybe the ship was fired upon and it was another ship that sunk. I will try and clarify this in coming weeks. Thanks again.
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I now know that the Whitby Abbey was fired upon at Gallipoli but didn't sink. I believe she also hit an unchartered reef - but didn't sink. Also a German U Boat fired on them but missed. I also am led to believe that the ships mascot - a goat - was killed by enemy fire. Its stomach contents revealed a lot of things that had been missing from the ship!?!?
Are there any maps etc. that show where the ship was anchored? Thanks for all the help
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I also am led to believe that the ships mascot - a goat - was killed by enemy fire. Its stomach contents revealed a lot of things that had been missing from the ship!?!?
That's the sort of detail you will never find in the history books. ;D
Good that you have been able to clarify details regarding the ship.
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Hi
I dont know if anyone is monitoring this thread, but if so I hope that the following is of use.
Naval History website indicates that HMS WHITBY ABBEY was a screw minesweeper. She was in collision with the paddle steamer Barry in Mudros bay on the 15th of August 1915.
I am editing the history of HMS Proserpine and she was based in Port Said at this time. Her logs report that HMS WHITBY ABBEY was towed into Port Said on the 11th of September 1915, went into dry dock there on the 18th, left dry dock on the 30th and sailed from Port Said on the 3rd of October 1915. Sadly no mention of a chef, a goat, or photos, but I hope that it clears up some of what happened to her.
The Naval History site casualties lists has at least two mentions of losses of crew men on board HMS WHITBY ABBEY, the last in 1918, but none around the time of the collision with the Barry.
Hope this helps.
Cadmussloop
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Hello Cadmussloop ;D
Welcome to Rootschat. Thanks for posting...Please do stick around as we have lots of interesting chats going on here.
Milly
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Hi Cadmussloop, Thanks for the information about Whitby Abbey. Every little detail is of interest. Much appreciated.
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Just to continue my search.....Does anyone know if there is a map of the places the ships were anchored at Gallipoli on 25th April? I really want to know where the minesweeper Whitby Abbey was anchored - how close to shore - what area etc.
Any help would be much appreciated as I plan to visit the area in a few weeks time. Thank you
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I am doing some research on behalf of someone whose grandfather also served on the Whitby Abbey, from Feb 1915 till 1918. Does anyone know whether the ship's logs for March and April 1915 exist anywhere? It looks as though the logs held at The National Archives start in May.
Also, I'm sure my friend would love to see iwccc's grandfather's diary, or be in touch with iwccc - is this possible?
Many thanks
Newbie
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Hello from Australia, Just to let you know I received your two requests and will be happy to help your research. Unfortunately I cannot answer your questions immediately. I will need a little time to look back into the information I have. I am also going to be away. So, I probably won't be able to look at the information until towards the end of August. Please have patience. I'll do my best
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Many thanks for your reply. Absolutely no hurry. I was notified you'd sent a a PM, but I can't find it (perhaps because I don't understand how rootschat PM works)
Anyway, get back to me at your convenience
Thanks again
Ruth
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Hi, Have a few minutes so here are a few bits and pieces to start off with. I spoke to my brother who is researching the Whitby Abbey in detail and he says that the ship used to run between Hull and Rotterdam as a Ferry for a Railway (probably the London Nor-Eastern )
Ian Hamilton - the commander of the battle was landed on W Beach from the Whitby Abby. We don't know as yet who was the Commanding Office of the Whitby Abbey. There seems to be Army evidence that suggests that the ship was close enough to shore to be hit by enemy fire. My brother estimates that there would have been about 60 sailors on board (similar numbers to the Rodean) My grandfather was Asst. Cooks Mate - no doubt he served the man you are researching some food! Can you let me know the name of the sailor you are researching - will try and see if he is mentioned in my grandfathers diary. Will try and get more information and re-read the diary at a later date. Bye for now
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Many thanks for your reply. Absolutely no hurry. I was notified you'd sent a a PM, but I can't find it (perhaps because I don't understand how rootschat PM works)
Anyway, get back to me at your convenience
Thanks again
Ruth
Hi Ruth
If you look at the brown bar above and click on MY MESSAGES you will see all the PM messages people have sent you.
You also get a notification when people reply to the post on this thread so if there is no Private Message it may just have been that
Milly
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There was a merchant vessel named the Whitby Abbey landing landing craft at Gallipoli, that was captained by my Great Grandfather, James Whyte Harris. I was under the impression that it had been sunk but perhaps just damaged at the time. The bell from the ship is, I believe, still on display at Merchant Taylors' school, Northwood, UK where my father and grandfather attended. As far as I can tell this was the SS Whitby Abbey that served from 1915 to 1919 as the HMS Whitby Abbey doing minesweeping amongst other duties.
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Going back to the post about the brigade HQ mentioned in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers (RDF) piece.
This was 86 Brigade of which the RDF were one component. The Brigade war diary records on April 25th who was to land on which beach and goes on:
The Brigade staff were ordered to land at beach W.......After bombardment by the battleships the landing was begun in tows from HM Ships and Minesweepers. The Mine Sweeper WHITBY ABBEY under Captain Townsend RN stood in to within a few hundred yards of the beach when she came under considerable fire. Men were killed and wounded on board and in the boats alongside. Brigade Headquarters landed from this vessel.
Beach W is shown on the attached map.
MaxD
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Looking further into this to try and confirm who had what roles I found the following article which describes a Captain C.S. Townsend as being "beach master 'W' beach'. This is consistent with the story that the commander of battle was on board the 'Whitby Abbey' but I am still sure that the ship was under the command of Captain James Whyte Harris RNR. Of whether there would have been a senior commissioned officer on board, during this battle, I have no idea. http://www.lynsted-society.co.uk/Projects/WW1/Despatch_1915_07_01_Opening_Gallipoli_April_25_26.html
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My aim in the post was solely to pick up two loose ends from this very interesting thread. The post about brigade headquarters didn't seem to have been followed through and the request early on for a map showing the location of the Whitby Abbey had also not been covered although beach W had been defined. I hope the post answered these two.
The naval despatch is indeed quite clear and Capt Townsend is also clearly named as Beach Master W Beach in the 29th Division Operation Order for the landing. 86 Brigade HQ were temporary passengers (they were not " commanders of the battle") on the Whitby Abbey so it is perhaps unsurprising that the diary confuses the role of Capt Townsend. (It could be said that "under the command of" was referring to his role as Beach Master).
As to the captain of the vessel, presumably James Whyte Harris is the officer who served from 1898 retired November 1913 and shown in the April 1915 Navy List as a Lieutenant Commander RNR Retired - did he return to active service to command a minesweeper?
MaxD
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Thank you MaxD, Very interesting information about the Whitby Abbey. It will take me a while to go through it all .....but thank you for your input to my questions.
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To Jaggedblue, Thank you for your interesting information about the Whitby Abbey. When I get a moment I will try and match up the information with my grandfather's diary. Very much appreciate you contributing to the post. Thanks
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I have a letter from Grandfather who was in the 12 Nelson Company Canterbury Regiment NZEF dated 17 May 1915 written on HMS Whitby Abbey letterhead. He was on board being taken to a hospital ship. He was probably being evacuated from the attacks at Cape Helles on 7/8 May where he was shot through the hip. it doesn't seem like it would be a minesweeper. Not much help but interesting.
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Welcome to Rootschat! HMS Whitby Abbey was used as a supply vessel at Gallipoli
http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritishShips-Locations10Attacked.htm (see the entry for HMS Barry also for more detail).
Hopefully he recovered but didn't go back to the horror that was Gallipoli.
MaxD
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I just deciphred an attached document on his letter. He was wounded on 16 May and the NZ Brigade was back at ANZAC Cove by then and the Whitby Abbey would therefore be there.
No he didnt go back. The bullet was lodged in his pelvis (I have and Xray of it) and it was not removed until 1933 in Wellington hospital.
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Having just read the splendid book - Gallipoli - The New Zealand Story by Christopher Pugsley I can't help thinking that a bullet in the pelvis was preferable to going back!
MaxD
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Great book. I was refering to that just today. Interesting how many did have to go back. if I recall from that book about 14500 New Zealanders landed at Gallipoi yet there wer eon about 8200 who served there. Given there was no RR the numbers were those wounded who recovered and went back in. If you are really interested in that campaign the best book I read is "No Better Death" by John Crawford. It is based on the letters and diaries of Lt Colonel William Malone. A wonderful insightful account which unfortunatley only goes until Malone's death on Chunuk Bair on 9 August.
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Thanks I'll look out for it. Must say the NZ input to that campaign does often get a bit subsumed into the whole ANZAC thing, Pugsley redressing the balance I think.
MaxD
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My great Uncle, a South African served on the ship. I have a picture of him with a few crew members and a painting of the ship obviously commissioned after the war on his return.
Moderator Comment: Email address removed to protect privacy.
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Hello Brendan Guy, Thank you so much for sharing the photos and information of the Whitby Abbey. I find it surprising that a South African was serving on the ship. Which man is your great Uncle? Do you know the name of the other two sailors? My grandfather was a Cooks Mate on this ship at the landing of Gallipoli. My brother is a naval historian and he will be thrilled to see the painting of the Whitby Abbey. He has collected lots of information on the ships in which our grandfather served. I have in recent years met another family whose father served on this ship. They live close by to me in NSW Australia. As mentioned before we have our grandfathers diary of the landing at Gallipoli. Do you have any other information about the Whitby Abbey? With regards. Carol
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Hi Carol
I’ve recently stumbled across the Whitby Abbey when researching my husband’s family tree. It seems he has a great grandfather who was on board and to read of your relative’s diary entries is incredible! I don’t suppose there is any mentions of a James Boyce you have come across?