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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: meggles on Saturday 27 April 13 09:14 BST (UK)
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Hi - I have a Elizabeth Hogan born at Moonie River, Qld abt 1863 (I can not find a registration for this birth but have it on her Marriage and death cert) on both records it has her father as Daniel Hogan and on her marriage cert has her mother as Elizabeth aboriginal women. I don't know where to go from here to find out more about Daniel and Elizabeth. Is there any where you can research aboriginal people in Qld? any ideas would be great. the family lived around Roma and then moved to Toowoomba in the late 1890s. Know lots about Elizabeth (the daughter) and her marriage to Albert Mancktelow etc. Just don't know before.
Any help would be fantastic.
cheers
Megan
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Hi Megan,
I found searching Aboriginal history quiet hard. My husband had a ancestor who " fostered" a young aboriginal boy and the only way i found out any information was that he was in WW1 hence his military records. His birth was never registered and as his foster parents were noted on his military records so have no parents names at all for him. Sadly he never come home from WW1.
This was also in the Roma area of QLD. I do have a email address somewhere of a fellow in Roma who was a great help when researching ancestors. He really went out of his way for me and found so much stuff i wouldnt have found on my own. I'll find his email if your interested and maybe he might be able to find something out for you.
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Some connections here...?
QLD BDM
marriages
1882/C884 MANCKTELOW Albert m. HOGAN Elizabeth
1886/C1288 MANCKTELOW Herbert m. HOGAN Ellen
Who are witnesses on marriage certificate Albert m. Elizabeth. Where did they marry...name of church please.
deaths
1935/B29311 Ellen MANCKTELOW
parents Denis HOGAN Elizabeth KATES
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I wonder if Daniel Hogan's death cert. would give anything up :-\
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Hi - the witness at the wedding were - Emily and Lilly who were Albert Mancktelows mother and sister.
The Ellen Hogan mentioned above was the wife of Albert's brother and she was born 1877 - I have not been able to find a connection as yet between the 2 Hogan girls but I suspect that there would be one. (eg were Daniel and Denis brothers) I also know that Daniel was a Taylor - but have not been able to find a thing about him.. ( I have thought about getting a death Cert - but at this stage I would just be guessing and would end up ordering wrong ones and at $39 each didn't want to do this yet)
Elizabeth and Albert did not marry in a church - the marriager cert said that they married at Bracknell farm (or it could be Cracknell farm) at Cattle Creek Roma.
Giblet I would love that contact if you can find it - anything to help me on the right track would be great. I have spoken to someone in the historical society of Roma but still waiting to hear back - it does not sound promising.
cheers Megan
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Elizabeth and Albert did not marry in a church - the marriager cert said that they married at Bracknell farm (or it could be Cracknell farm) at Cattle Creek Roma.
That is not at all unusual .... in NSW it was not compulsory for a wedding to take place in a church building, and Qld laws were originally based on the founding colony (NSW) .... so may I ask : what denomination is shown for the officiating minister please?
Cheers, JM
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Cattle Creek is where my lot where from ;D
I'll dig around my papers and find the email and PM it to you.
edited... PM sent
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…. A Daniel and Mary HOGAN are listed as the parents of AN Elizabeth HOGAN on the online index of NSW BDM’s Early Church Records for BAPTISMS for 1856, volume 121A and line 2009. Volume 121 is a Supplementary Register as per NSW SRO’s Guide No. 4
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4
I wonder if that 1856 baptism could be for your lass …. The NSW BDM online index does NOT show where the baptism took place…. And afterall, Qld was part of NSW until 1859.
Cheers, JM
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Does Elizabeth sign the certificate...or "her mark"?
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Re Aboriginal Heritage and family history researching
Here's a link to an RChat thread that may give you reasons to hope that there's indexes being made, efforts being undertaken and care being exercised along the way !
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,524347.0
Also, it can be worthwhile to check electoral rolls prior to the 1967 referendum .... see this article from the Australian Electoral Commission
http://www.aec.gov.au/voting/indigenous_vote/aborigin.htm
Cheers, JM
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QLD Electoral Rolls 1874 to 1879:
HOGAN Daniel, Toowoomba - Dalby, 1874-75, Residence, Jondaryan.
HOGAN Daniel, Toowoomba - Dalby, 1876, Residence, Johdarien.
HOGAN Daniel, Toowoomba - Dalby, 1876-77, Residence, Jondarien.
HOGAN Daniel, Toowoomba - Dalby, 1879, Residence, Jondaryan.
HOGAN Daniel, Dalby, 1879, Residence, Railway Line, Dalby.
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Hi everyone
sorry in my delay in responding -
The church that they were married in was the congregational church and yes Elizabeth did sign with a mark.
I have already ruled out the Elizabeth Hogan born to Daniel and Mary - I have followed that family through.
I am finally down to two possible Daniel Hogan Deaths - one in 1880 and one in 1869. and I am going to order the 1880 one this week (he was born in Ireland and the other one in Canada - the one in Canada was born 1811 and the one from Ireland was born 1835 - hoping that this one born in 1835 is the one) If it is the one in 1880 - then it is quite possible that the Daniel Hogan in the electrol rolls in Dalby is him - as this is also where Albert Mancktelow and Elizabeth moved to.
I am also going to try the email address that giblet gave me - thank you all so much for your help - i will let you know how i go.
cheers
Megan
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Electoral Roll 1908 Pittsworth Darling Downs
MANCKTELOW, Elizabeth
MANCKTELOW Albert Springdale farmer
Electoral Roll 1925 Pittsworth Darling Downs
MANCKTELOW William Frederick, Walter, Arthur, Herbert Henry farmers
Elizabeth Hogan all Mywybilla, via Oakey
Elizabeth would seem to be aware of her father's name. That she can write (marriage cert.) might suggest her chances in life...education etc.
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Electoral Roll 1908 Pittsworth Darling Downs
MANCKTELOW, Elizabeth
MANCKTELOW Albert Springdale farmer
Electoral Roll 1925 Pittsworth Darling Downs
MANCKTELOW William Frederick, Walter, Arthur, Herbert Henry farmers
Elizabeth Hogan all Mywybilla, via Oakey
Elizabeth would seem to be aware of her father's name. That she can write (marriage cert.) might suggest her chances in life...education etc.
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Did you mean to offer anything Vette81 ???
If so you can press reply without copying anything and just type in your response.
Neil ;)
Meanwhile welcome to Rootschat ;D
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Hi Sorry to join in so late but perhaps better late than never. Referring back to Megan's first post - just wondering Megan if you are related to Albert and Elizabeth Mancktelow as they were my Great Great Grandparents. If so would love to hear from you.
Helen
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Hi Not sure if you already have found the details, but Elizabeth Hogan was my ggg grandmother, would be interested to know if you know any descendants from Elizabeth and Albert Mancktelow
Thanks,
Jagsun
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Hi Jagsun and Millie2009 and vette81
Welcome to rootschat :) :)
Meggles should have been notified of your posts and will be along soon. I sent her a pm as well (just to be sure ;) ).
Ros
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Hi I don't know that I can provide any new information. I was hoping to be able to learn more myself. What I do know is that Albert & Elizabeth Mancktelow were my GG Grandparents. One of their children my G Grandmother Ruthes Manktelow b 1888 married John Taylor 1903. My Grandmother Blanche Taylor was their first born in 1906. Blanche then had a child in 1930, Esme and another in 1932, Coral. My Mother was Coral and she was adopted out. To my knowledge she had no knowledge of her birth family, however it appears that Esme was either not adopted out or reconnected with her Mother at an early age as Esme's marriage makes reference to their relationship. My mother's original birth certificate had father unknown and as Blanche's surname was still Taylor one can only assume she was unmarried for both births. She did however marry in 1934 to Arthur Harris, I am not aware of any further children. My Mother passed away in 1979 when I was 10 so any further information would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi
I have traced Daniel Hogan and his family back to Ireland and have s death at Dunwich. Elizabeth who was with Daniel was an aboriginal woman born in Wellington NSW. She married Patrick Augustus Higgins and had two children, Patrick John Higgins and Elizabeth Mary Higgins. Patrick and Daniel were both convicts. Patrick Augustus Higgins died when Elizabeth Mary was a few months old. I have all the birth, death, marriage certificates as well as all the convict records. It is all quite an interesting story. I am willing to share what I have but not sure how as it is quite large. I even have photos and proof of everything. Any ideas how to give it to you?
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Excuse my butting in again ... :)
Either of you can send a personal message to the other including your e-mail address.
To send a personal message, click on the circle under their name containing a letter/page. This will open a new window into which you can type a personal/private message.
Ros
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Thank you, I didn't know that.
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Hello,
My name is Jason, Elizabeth and Albert are my ggg grandparents. I would love any information or pics of this family if anyone is happy to share, also any family stories. Also interested if anyone knows any information about Walter John Mancktelow born 1927.
Thank you
Jason
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Hi Millie2009, this is my first time on Rootschat so I hope I can get it right! I do have some information for you regarding Albert & Elizabeth (nee Hogan) Mancktelow, who are buried together in the Toowoomba Drayton Cemetery in Toowoomba Qld. They are my Great Grandparents, their daughter RUTH & John Taylor are my grandparents, they are buried together in the Woombye Cemetery in Woombye Qld. Their daughter SARAH ANN JANE & George Henry Cranswick Parker are my parents. Your Grandmother Blanche was my mother Sarah's oldest sister. Blanche lived in our local area & we saw her & Uncle Arthur often, they never had children. She died in June 1970 & is buried in the Caloundra Cemetery. Esme married Steve Chaplin and lived in Caloundra & Beerwah Qld. She died in 2003 & is also buried in the Caloundra Cemetery. We knew Aunty Blanche had another daughter named Coral but we never met her. Maybe if you send me your email I can give you more information. Hope this helps you & happy to be in touch with you, Joy
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One of the problems in dealing with Australian Aboriginal marriages was that Aboriginal people were not considered to be people at all in the early days, and it's only recently that they have been included in censuses at all. I know how it feels to hit a brick wall but how must they feel?
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Hi Everyone,
Albert and Elizabeth are my ggg grandparents. I was curious if anyone out there has a photo of them ?
Thanks,
Jason
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Hi Jason, Albert & Elizabeth are my Great Grandparents and unfortunately I don't have any photos of them either, most disappointing.
Joy
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I am also a descendant of Elizabeth Hogan/Mancktelow. Her son Thomas had a daughter named Hazel who is my great grandmother. I too have hit a brick wall finding more about Elizabeth's parents- Daniel Hogan and Elizabeth (listed as an Aboriginal woman). If anyone has any more information I'd very much appreciate it.
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Hi
I have traced Daniel Hogan and his family back to Ireland and have s death at Dunwich. Elizabeth who was with Daniel was an aboriginal woman born in Wellington NSW. She married Patrick Augustus Higgins and had two children, Patrick John Higgins and Elizabeth Mary Higgins. Patrick and Daniel were both convicts. Patrick Augustus Higgins died when Elizabeth Mary was a few months old. I have all the birth, death, marriage certificates as well as all the convict records. It is all quite an interesting story. I am willing to share what I have but not sure how as it is quite large. I even have photos and proof of everything. Any ideas how to give it to you?
Hi Jagsun,
I can’t figure out the direct message / PM feature. But would appreciate any information you’d be able to provide if you’re able to message me or see this reply.
Thank you very much
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Iwalk, you need to make one more post, any old thing will do, and that will activate the messaging system for you
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Thank you for your help mckha489, that’s worked and I’ve been able to message Jagsun. Fingers crossed.