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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: jones9 on Monday 29 April 13 12:22 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
I'm researching my paternal family and have hit a brick wall and need some help! According to family stories, we came from an old welsh family from Penmaenmawr which then moved to Chester - I'm not sure how much of that's true, but the oldest ancestor I can find is a Thomas Jones (b.1776, d.1854, Chester), who on the 1841 census has a 'Yes' for 'Whether born in Cheshire', but on the 1851 census has his birth place as being Corwen. He was a shoemaker who apparently traveled a lot!
The oddest thing about him is the fact that each one of his children was born in a different (coastal) city. He married a Margaret (b. Ireland 1782-1846), and they had the following children:
- Edward Jones b.1808, Portsmouth, who was a shoemaker too
- Thomas Jones, b. 1814, Plymouth, also a shoemaker
- Elizabeth Jones, b.1809, Eastbourne, Sussex
- Margaret Jones, b.1826, Corwen
That's all attested by the 1841/1851 census where they were all living in Chester, mostly St.Oswald's parish. Their parents lived in Wellington St., but I think they originally lived in St.John's, as their son, Edward was shown living their at his marriage in 1838 to Ann Elizabeth Ashcroft.
The fact that Thomas was born in Corwen, reminds me that Edward's grandson, Henry Edward Jones (a son of William Owen Jones b.1842, Edward's 2nd son), married a Margaret Peake who was herself from Corwen. This could just be a coincidence, but one of the witnesses to their marriage (1882, Walton on the Hill, Liverpool) was a 'Sarah Goodman Jones'. I chanced across a few 'Goodman Jones's born in Corwen and researched a little into the name and discovered that they all seem to originate from the Corwen/Ruthin area, so I feel that she may be the missing link! There are one or two 'Goodman Jones' who moved from Ruthin/Corwen to Cheshire around the same time as Thomas, so I wonder if they could be a sibling.
I can't seem to find any of the older parish records for Corwen so not sure where to look to find them, without going to the National Library of Wales (quite a distance away). I know there's a lot of information here but any help/new information would be appreciated!!!!
Thanks for your time!
Jones9
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Hi and welcome :)
It's all quite believable, as the old A5, Holyhead-London coach road ran through Corwen. I have most of the Corwen records so will investigate and get back to you :)
(Mind you, my father used to say that his family came from Maentwrog but I found that they came from Llangynog. The slate/quarrying bit was correct ;D )
Gadget
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That was quick - thin booklet :D
I have a baptism in Corwen -
April 9 1776, Thomas s/o Thomas Jones and Marg't of Aberalwen
Will see if there's more.
Gadget
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Dear Gadget,
Thanks for your speedy reply and help!
Does it say what his job was? Any mention of shoemaking, or more detail?
Also, do you have any idea how you'd try and track an ancestor (or even know) if they had moved from somewhere like Penmaenmawr originally, just by using parish records?
Oh, also, it's maybe a bit too tenuous but I came across a court case of a Thomas Jones, Yeo. of Pwlly Gwydda, Corwen, where he'd been charged with 'Assault on prosecutor (Thomas Higgins) and rescue of Robert Evans otherwise Davis', in 1780, so could be a reason for his travels if that's the case?
It'd be interesting to find out why his son moved round the coast, I suspected a naval connection at first. Thanks again!!
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This Thomas and Margaret seem to have had a son Evan baptised 18 Oct 1778.
The only Goodman that I've found so far in Corwen is this baptism:
7 Sept 1727 Gabriel s/o John and Jane
I'm having to go through a number of booklets so it's tricky. Have you tried FindMy Past - they have a lots of Welsh parish records but, because of the Terms and Conditions, we can't give them:
www.findmypast.co.uk
Links to many of the records to there are on Family Search https://familysearch.org/
Gadget
(Just seen your reply - will look further and get back)
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findmypast and familysearch don't seem to have any pre-1800 parish records for corwen, although I've noticed other areas of Merionethshire have them - am I looking in the wrong place or have other people found this? If you knows of any other resources then it would help!
Thanks!
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Nothing on the record about occupation. Here's the location of Aberalwen:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tr3/
Have you tried the Wills on the National Library site? I know it's Jones but I've found a couple of my Joneses on it:
http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&lng=en
FindMyPast records are a bit hit and miss. Some of the records are filed under different parishes - counties, even. There's a thread on one the other boards about it.
You could try Names from Clwyd: http://www.namesfromclwyd.org.uk/ which would link you to the relevant transcriptions from the Clwyd FHS - http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/
Gadget
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Have you located the Sarah Goodman Jones, witness in 1882, on any other record - census, birth, marriage, death?
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I didn't know about the parish booklets from the Clwyd FHS, just found them now!
Yes, I could try looking for a will, do you know what year Thomas Jones was burried?
I can't find anything else about Sarah Goodman Jones - I presume she wasn't born with the middle name 'Goodman', unless the record's disappeared. I think she was witness to another marriage in the same parish in Liverpool in 1866, but not sure, as it's just 'Sarah G. Jones'. There was a Thomas Jones and Mary of Chester who had a son called 'Richard Goodman Jones', b.1830, and a daughter 'Sarah Jones' - she could've added the Goodman bit later, but that's the closest I've got.
It may just be a coincidence, but I'm interested in finding out more about her in case she turns out to be a relation, cousin perhaps of Henry Eward Jones.
Thanks for your help Gadget!
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I've just looked through the index for Thomas Jones's wills, Corwen 1700-1858 but nothing looks promising so far. There are 17 so you could possibly have a look at the first few lines for hints. I don't see an Aberalwen mentioned but ....
I did see a Sarah G Jones b. Wales on one of the censuses. Who was the other witness? Also, it might be worth checking to see if she witnessed any other marriages - could be a Church warden or some such.
Gadget
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I put the rough dates into the FindMyPast Welsh parish records, and there's one Thomas Jones (1739-1821) for Corwen, however could not be this one. Thomas Jones (b.1776), went to Chester around 1820s, as his daughter, Margaret was born there in 1826, so if his father died around this time it would make sense for him returning at this point. I'm still not sure why he'd travel round the coast so extensively, then settle in Chester, perhaps something to do with the shoemaking trade.
As one last thing, could you see if there is a Margaret born to Thomas Jones and Margaret around 1826? That's the last one I promise - thanks so much for your patience!!
For HEJ's marriage certificate - the other witness is quite hard to read - at first sight it looks like 'Ale M Lessen', but could be 'Owen Lessen/Lasser/Lanner'.
Finally on the National Library of Wales website you gave me a link for, how do you view a will? Are there any electronic copies or are there only hard copies...can't seem to work out how to load it.
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The screen should look like the one I've attached.
* Enter as I've suggested.
* You should get two pages up 1-10 and 11 -17
Click on each one and look in the viewing pane - you can enlarge with the buttons.
Gadget
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I don't see a baptism for Margaret, d/o Thomas and Margaret, circa 1826 in Corwen. I've also checked in what non-conformist records that I have (very limited for that area). Have you followed her beyong 1851 by any chance? I know Jones is difficult but maybe it would give you something more to go on.
Gadget
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Sorry, how do I get to the viewing pane? I've got the list up, do I click on 'Request'? This goes through a delivery form.....if I click on it then I get this screen:
None of the options seem to work...I've created an account and tried different browsers but can't seem to get it to load!
Okay, I will do!
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You don't need to create an account:
Go to http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=2
*Press Family History on the top bar.
*Press Search Archival Databases on the left hand column
*Press Probate - Wills Online as shown
(or click on the link that I gave in Reply #6 )
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ok - thanks for all your help!
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John Goodman Jones married either Sarah Lyons or Sarah Merriman in the West Derby district in 1879.Could one of these be the Sarah you seek?
Regards
Roger
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Possible for them in 1881: RG11/3635/16/26
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There is a John Goodman Jones born 1847 Ruthin district who would fit
Regards
Roger
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While there is a death for a John Goodman Jones in Ruthin in 1848(age unknown),there is also one for a 40 year old in Liverpool in 1888 together with a probate record on A******y.
Regards
Roger
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Thanks for looking this up! I doubt that Sarah was a relation to Henry Jones in that case then, but at least it's cleared that up - I suspected that maybe Jones was her married name but couldn't prove it.
Thanks all!