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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Herefordshire => Topic started by: janjim on Tuesday 14 May 13 06:41 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am hoping someone can help me please
My G G Grandmother was Susannah Haines (Haynes) sometimes called Susan, she was born in 1810 at Dewchurch, Herefordshire. I have her marriage certificate to Thomas Gwillim on the 31.1.1843 at Monmouth Wales. Residence at time of marriage was Monmouth for both of them and Susannah's Father's name was William Haines, Cooper. Witness to their marriage was a Lucy Haines (maybe her sister)
So far I've been unable to find any more on her Mother and rest of the family, would really appreciate assistance in this regard.
Susannah Gwillim did leave Monmouth Wales at a later date and died in Hereford in 1870.
I am particularly interested in the Haines family, as my Mother (aged 102yrs) talks of the Haines family members visiting her Mother in Salford, Lancashire.
Regards
Jan
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It looks like Newchurch was in Monmouthshire in 1841?
Found this - they may turn out to be related somewhere along the line
1841
Newchurch East Monmouth
John Haines 60 Mason
Susannah 58
William 15
William Lewis 8mths
Eliza Buckland 12 FS
all b in county
HO107 746 6 14 21
Suz
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Thanks Suzard,
I thought it was Dewchurch, but knowing the area, cannot make much comment.
There is no father William Haines, or even a sister of Lucy, so I'm not sure about this, thanks for your help anyway.
jan
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I assume this is Susannah in 1851??
Monmouthshire
Thomas Gwillin Head M 42 Clergyman's servant Hereford
Susan wife 41 Dewchurch Hereford
William son 5 Mon
Lucy daughter 2 Mon
William father in law widower 73 Lab hazelwood hereford
Edward Morgan Lodger U Hoop shaver Caerleon Mon
HO107 2445 272 31
If so -I wondered if William (dittoed as Gwillin)father in law should really be Haynes???? and has been misentered?
Suz
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there are these baptisms
Susan Haynes 14 Jan 1810
Llanwarne hereford
Parents William /Sarah
Lucy Haynes 13 Jun 1822
Dewchurch hereford
Parents William /Sarah
????
Suz
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Could this be Susannah's father??
1841
Old Shop
Much Birch hereford
William Haines 61 Cooper Yes
mary haines 41 yes
HO107 432 4/3 1
and maybe Lucy??
1851
Munrow? Marrow St Mon
Edward Phillips Head M 60 Corn seed merchant master emp 1 man Mon
Elizabeth wife 53 Mon
Lucy haines servant U 26 House servant Much Dewhurst hereford
HO107 2445 316 30
Suz
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Suz,
Yes, this looks like it may be the case, William Haines living with them in Monmouth.
Yes and 1851 census, I think the address where Lucy Haines is Monnow Street, Monmouth, quite close to Harpers Lane where William Gwilliam was born in 1845. That must be them now.
Got to check out tomorrow, it's getting quite late here in Australia, so will get back to you.
Thanks so much.
Jan
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there are these baptisms
Ann Haynes 5 Apr 1819
Much Dewchurch
Parents William/Sarah
Eleanor Haynes 11 sept 1808 Llanwane
parents William/Sarah
Suz
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Suz,
Yes, this could be possible, we've found 4 daughters, by the looks of it. Maybe Sarah Haynes died and then he married a Mary, who was considerably younger than William.
We need to find a marriage now for William Haynes and Sarah, as well a Mary, will start checking myself.
It seems that the Haynes family moved from Dewchurch, Lanwarne area to Monmouth, lived there for a while.
The marriage certificate for Thomas Gwillim and Susan Haines shows her signature as Susannah,
but certainly registered as Susan, maybe she wanted to be a "Susannah" Have found her surname as Haynes in her son's birth certificate.
jan
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Mary Haines (from 1841) could also be another daughter???
Suz
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Quite possible.
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Hi Suz,
Now definitely found Lucy Haines marriage Dec 1853 at Ross to George Tudor.
They are both shown as witnesses in Susan Haines marriage certificate, so that solves them now.
I just don't have access to Ancestry, would love to know where they went to.
They could have moved to Salford, Lancashire area, as this is where Gwilliam family members moved around 1860's from Monmouth Hereford areas.
Still trying to find more information on Ann (Haynes) Haines and Eleanor Haynes, and also marriage of William Haynes and Sarah.
Will keep searching.
Jan
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this looks like them
1861
Monmow Bridge Monmouth
George Tudor Head M 37 Butcher Dixton? Mon
Lucy wife 34 Much Newchurch
Maryann daughter 3 Mon
Sarah Sophia daughter 4mth Mon
Ann Cooper sister in law M 37 dressmaker Muchnewchurch
RG9 3988 19 34
could Ann Cooper be nee Haines??
Suz
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Sadly it looks like Lucy died and George remarried
Death reg FreeBMD
Lucy Tudor
Dec qtr 1867
age 45
Monmouth
11a 25
1871
Monmow bridge
Monmouth
George tudor head M 50 Butcher Dixton Mon
Eliza wife Ewers? Harold? Hereford
Mary A daughter 13 Mon
RG10 5304 11 3
Can't find daughter Sarah Sophia - her full name was possibly Sarah Ellen Sophia?
Suz
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Suz,
Thanks so much for all of this, yes I'm wondering if Ann Cooper is Lucy's sister.
Checked free BDM and see an Ann Haynes m. Dec 1853 William Cooper, could be ours.
She would have been 34 years of age, maybe her husband had died.
Need to check 1851 census, to see where she was then.
Jan
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Suz,
r.
Checked free BDM and see an Ann Haynes m. Dec 1853 William Cooper, could be ours.
She would have been 34 years of age, maybe her husband had died.
.
Jan
She was described as "M" = "Married" in1861 when she was with the Tudors ??
Suz
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Thanks Suz,
Possibly Ann Cooper was only visiting at the time. Lucy & George had the Butcher shop on the Monnow Bridge. Wonder if maybe Ann Cooper shows up in 1871 census at all?
Jan
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Have been looking for Ann.-will look some more.
Wondered if anything had happened to her - Lucy's daughter Sarah Sophia died age 3 -then Lucy died -wondered if there might have been some sort of epidemic?
Also looking for William Cooper - don't know his age or where he was from or occupation but you never know we may strike lucky.
Suz
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It is all so interesting, my Mum is 102 years of age, and she told me today, that her Mother told her that the Haynes (Haines) family used to visit them in Salford, Lancashire. I am so keen to get all this family history together now, especially while Mum is so good with her memory.
So I'm thinking that when she says Haynes family, there maybe might have been a boy Haynes,
because otherwise why would she be using the Haynes surname, and this was in the 1890's back in Lancashire that the surname was talked about. Like at 102 years of age, to be saying all of this, is really making me get right into the research once again. It certainly appears that the spelling was changed to Haines by the 1850's.
I am looking at the William Haines who "maybe" :-\ married a Mary, that you mentioned previously he was living at Much Birch at the Old Shop, Herefordshire in 1841, so am wondering whether his first wife Sarah died, and then he remarried, and maybe he had a son that would carry on the surname of Haines (Haynes) I will start my searching as well now, but any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Certainly quite a few family members came from Monmouth, so need to look at both Counties for sure.
Regards
Jan
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wonderful Mum is with you and so alert.
My Aunt was a mine of family information -sadly she died quite suddenly in Jan just before her 93rd birthday.
Do you have any forenames of the Haines/Haynes family who used to visit in Lancashire??? Maybe we could research from that angle.
Suz
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Hi Suz,
No, I don't know any names at all unfortunately. I've been looking at various sites that I can find and so far found no death for Sarah Haynes, nor a possible marriage for William Haynes marrying a Mary, well finding the right ones anyway. Probably need to find Parish records I would imagine.
I did find some old papers (research done some years back when I had access to Ancestry) for 1851 census, William Haines living at Much Birch, his wife Mary Haines who was born Wotherston, Monmouth. Where this is our William not sure. Then there was the 1841 census that you mention, where William and Mary were living at the Old Shop, Much Birch, Herefordshire.
I'm wondering if anyone has access to Parish records either in Monmouth or Hereford that might be able to assist me there.
Jan
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I think very possibly the William/Mary you found in 1851 is the same couple found in 1841 - Mary's p.o.b. has been mistranscribed
1851
Hereford Rd Much Birch Hereford
William Haines Head M 70 Cooper Much Birch Hereford
Mary wife 47 Wattstown Monmouth
HO107 1977 42 4
Suz
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Good idea to request parish regiister look up and maybe post a link to this topic
There are these marriages on family search
26 Nov 1807
Llanwarne hereford
William Haynes
Sarah Essex
28 Sept 1833
Wormbridge hereford
William Haynes
Mary Watkyns
might be worth investigating further???
Suz
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..and possible baptism for William???
William Haynes
baptised 23 Jun 1782
Much Birch hereford
parents John & Eleanor
Suz
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Suz,
Yes, I've been thinking that too, I saw this marriage to Mary on Family Search, but just wish I could find death for Sarah, as far as we've been able to determine, the last child William & Sarah Haynes was Lucy born 1822. It appears that William & Mary had no children going by 1841 and 1851 census info.
jan
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Seems that way.
Could this be William's parents marriage??
John Haines
Elliner Verry
8 Nov 1761
Much Birch Hereford
and William's siblings
Baptism
Much Birch Hereford
Parents John Haynes & Eleanor
Sarah Haynes 2 jan 1785
Lucy Haynes 11 Mar 1777
Mary Haynes 24 Jul 1774
Thomas Haynes 1 Apr 1770
Elinor Haynes 27 Jun 1762Callow hereford
Suz
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What abouth this burial record??
Parish Records Burial
Sarah Haynes
date of burial 6 Sept 1830
age 51
St david Much Dewchurch Hereford
Suz
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could this be Sarah's baptism????
Sarah Essex
6 jan 1778
All Saints Hereford
Parents William & Sarah !!!
Suz
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Yes !! Certainly looks like.
Suz, I'm just going out for coffee, sorry about this in the middle of everything, but will get back to you pretty soon
You're a Gem
Jan
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Hi Suz,
Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, Sunday now a busy day for me, so hopefully we can be in contact again on Monday (here in Aust)
Jan
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That's OK - I couldn't get back onto Roots - site was too busy
Will look tomorrow to see what else can be found.
Suz
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Hi Suz,
Just been thinking it all looks pretty well good, the only comment I could make is that if John Haines & Elinor Verry married in 1761, first child born 1762, then there is a gap of 8 years before more children, 1770, 1774, 1777, 1782 and 1785, I suppose that could happen, but a little strange.
I haven't done a posting for parish records yet, will do that tomorrow.
Jan