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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Nairnshire => Topic started by: Ozcaine on Thursday 16 May 13 05:58 BST (UK)
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This is my very first post. yesterday I looked at posts from Nairnshire, Scotland, but now can't get back to them - I've already seen them. How do I see them again?
So, my grandfather, William Urquhart Mackintosh was born 24.10.1874 in Tradespark, Nairn, Scotland. He left home at 14 (apparently 10-14 children in the family), he was a Gardener, and married Elizabeth Hart Lawson in Paisley in 1906 & they later emigrated to Australia 1924-25 with their children.
His parents were John Mackintosh and Margaret, nee Urquhart. I also have in my possession his brother Colin's birth certificate, b 30 May 1881 (however his father's name is spelt John McIntosh - I believe the names are interchangable), and a wooden box of Colin's with his name & birthdate written inside, and also 'Mrs J Mackintosh, 119 High Street, Nairn' - I presume his mother. I don't know how we came to be in possession of the box, as Colin emigrated to Canada. I believe there was also a brother Andrew, as well as other siblings whose names I don't know.
This is what I know as fact.
Several years ago (1993) a cousin (now deceased) sent me info to say that William Urquhart mackintosh's father, John McIntosh, stone mason's labourer, was born c 1835, and married Margaret Urquhart (b 1841), domestic servant, on 13 12 1861 in Nairn. (Margaret Urquhart was the daughter of Jon Urquhart and Emily Bain).
I was also told that John McIntosh's parent were Daniel Main Mackintosh, b 1811 in Nairn, Ticketed as a Merchant Seaman in 1845 . He was married to Anne Ross, and died 1854-61
I have since found 'matches' with another Daniel Main Mackintosh who married an Anne Ross, but he was born in 1822. Now I don't know what info to trust & how to go about finding it. Can anyone help please?
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This is my very first post. yesterday I looked at posts from Nairnshire, Scotland, but now can't get back to them - I've already seen them. How do I see them again?
Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
Click on "Forum", on the black navigation banner above.
Then scroll down to Scotland.
Underneath Scotland-General, you will see each county mentioned.
Click on "Nairnshire"!
Alternatively, use the "Search" facility, if you know what you are looking for.
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To help, I will move this post to Nairnshire for you. ;)
Rambler
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Thanks, found nairnshire again - I was clicking on new, rather than Nairnshire - a hint for other newbies
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Hi Ozcaine
Welcome from me too :)
How lucky you have been able to get so far, particularly with the help of your cousin in previous years.
Not sure how much documented material your cousin gathered as part of the research, or you. Have you looked at certficates of birth/marriage/death or entries from the Old Parish Registers, available to download from the offical pay to view site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Census information is also really useful as this provides an awful lot of information sometimes in one go and helps with figuring out (living) siblings etc and places of birth for everyone.
You mention that you are not sure on all of William's siblings names. You have parents' marriage date as 13 12 1861 in Nairn. So working from the next census in 1871:
John Mcintosh 32 agr. labourer b. Thurso, caithnessshire
Margaret Mcintosh 28 b. Nairn, Nairnshire
Daniel Mcintosh 9 b. Nairn, Nairnshire (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ65-CSQ)
John Mcintosh 7 b. Croy, invernessshire (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYTJ-G8Z)
George Mcintosh 3 b. Croy, invernessshire (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYTJ-GHD)
Andrew Mcintosh 2 b. Nairn, Nairnshire * (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ65-V46)
Address: Tradespark, Nairn Burgh
*Looks to be the second named son Andrew as first died in 1867 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYTJ-GVH
1881 Census entry below:
John McIntosh 42 Mason's lab
Margaret McIntosh 38
George McIntosh 13
Andrew McIntosh 12
Annie McIntosh 8 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQM1-B86
William McIntosh 6 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ65-KF7
Margaret McIntosh 2
James McIntosh 1
Address: 8 Tradespark, Nairn Burgh
Likely young Emily may not have lived long https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQM1-RJ7 as she doesn't show with family in 1881 (this can be confirmed on Scotlands People - SP).
Monica :)
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1891 census for the family:
John MacIntosh 54 Mason's Labourer
Margaret M MacIntosh 48
Margaret MacIntosh 12
Colin MacIntosh 9 (from what you had, b 30 May 1881)
Robert MacIntosh 7
Address: Tradespark, Nairn Burgh
From the children's details we have so far, I count 12 which includes the early deaths of first born Andrew and Emily (t.b.c.). I think also given the gaps between some of the ages, likely another couple of early deaths of children there.
Monica
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Maybe another Emily might have been born later? Can't see her though in 1891 anywhere so not sure about her actual details, just what shows below:
1901:
Margaret Mackintosh 59 b. Nairn
Emily Mackintosh 18 daughter b. Nairn
Address:119 High Street, Nairn
Can't tell from this transcript whether Margaret shows as a widow by now. The death cert for John would be available to search and view on SP. The original census image is also available to view and download from SP.
The address of 119 High Street would certainly match the inscription you have on Colin's box.
Monica
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I was also told that John McIntosh's parent were Daniel Main Mackintosh, b 1811 in Nairn, Ticketed as a Merchant Seaman in 1845 . He was married to Anne Ross, and died 1854-61
I have since found 'matches' with another Daniel Main Mackintosh who married an Anne Ross, but he was born in 1822. Now I don't know what info to trust & how to go about finding it. Can anyone help please?
Have you actually been sent a copy of the marriage entry from SP for John and Margaret's marriage in 1861 in the past? What did that show regarding his parents? If there is any doubt, a good double check can also be the details on the death cert. (if the info is known to the informant).
Monica
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Wow, Thanks so much Monica for your reply ;). I never thought so much would come of my enquiry. I've never used the pay per view system before, but will definitely give it a try.
My cousin did offer to send me copies of certificates, but it never eventuated. The census listing with the 119 High Street address definitely clinches things for me. a thousand thanks
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Glad it makes sense!
Regarding John and his details specifically. Again, together with certificates, you can have a look at censuses to see what may show.
From his census ages after his marriage, he certainly looks to have been born mid 1830s in Thurso parish in Caithness, not the early 1820s.
I think by 1851, he was already working away from home. Possible entry for him in 1851, living at the Munro household:
John Mcintosh, 14, errand boy, b. Thurso
Address: Chapelhill, Nigg, Ross and Cromarty
The 1841 census is harder to search in. Can't easily see anything so far for him.
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Leap of faith in the absence of anything more concrete except a hunch from what I see!
I think this might be John with family in 1841 in Tarbart, Ross & Cromarty:
Ann Mcintosh 40 midwife
Flora Mcintosh 67 b. Scotland
Barbara Mcintosh 12 b. Scotland
Andrew Mcintosh 9 b. Scotland
John Mcintosh 7 b. Scotland
Address: Portmahomack, Tarbart, Ross & Cromarty
The 1841 census is the most limited in terms of info. You should as either born in the county the census took place or born in Scotland. The entry above, Ann shows as born in R&C and the rest of the household not. Also, relationships within the household were not given.
The reason I think this may John's family is because:
- We have the most likely entry for John McIntosh b. Thurso and working away from home in 1851 in a place in R&C.
- I found an 1851 entry for a Daniel McIntosh 15, b. Thurso, working away from home as a stable boy at a farm in Tarbat which made me wonder if he was also a brother.
This Daniel didn't show in the McIntosh household in 1841, but I found this entry in R&C for a Daniel, which made me wonder if he may be staying with Ann Ross' family?
Andrew Ross 49, farmer
Helen Ross 47
Alexander Ross 17
James Ross 16
Anne Ross 14
Helen Ross 10
Andrew Ross 9
Johan Ross 5
Daniel Mcintosh 3 b. Scotland
Address: Arboll, Tarbat, Ross & Cromarty
And that is far as I have got with my guesses!
I wonder why the reference to merchant seamen's records for Daniel Snr.? Maybe connected to this https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCQW-99Y but there are no details there to know anything really.
Monica
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My last one promise for now ;)
Supporting entries for that family in Portmahomack being the correct one for John. I think this might be another brother of John, in the 1851 census -everyone apart from George born in Tarbat:
George McKintosh 28 sailor b. Thurso
Pegg McIntosh 27
Daniel McIntosh 7
Flora McIntosh 4
Ann McIntosh 2
Kenneth McIntosh 1
Address: Portmahomack, Tarbat, R&C
If you haven't come across this already, Scottish naming pattern of children can sometimes give you clues as to whether you are pointing in the right direction, with the names and order of names given to children. Not always followed in strict order, or at all sometimes, but surprising how ofter it comes pretty close to right clues on maternal and paternal grandparents - see this link for example www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm
Monica
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:) :) :) You really are going to phenomenal lengths Monica I'm so grateful. I also agree that this is the right family for a Mackintosh to be staying with (Daniel Main Mackintosh was married to Anne Ross)
re the merchant seamen index this is what my late cousin sent me - in the Index to Merchant Seamen 1845-54, entry no BT 113/85 ; Register Ticket No 168244, Daniel Main Mackintosh born Nairn 1811. Capacity -fisherman: hair-brown; complexion - dark: eyes-grey. First went to sea 1820. When unemployed resides at Nairn. Issued at Inverness 1.7.1845. Age when ticketed 34 yrs. Can write.
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Familysearch shows:
Daniel McIntosh married Anne Ross 27/7/1819 Tarbat, R & C.
Children:
George b.29/11/1820, bp.8/12/1820 Wick, Caithness
John bp.10/7/1822 Thurso, Caithness (must have died)
Flora bp.17/4/1824 Thurso
Daniel bp.18/12/1826 Thurso
Barbara bp.22/12/1828 Thurso
Andrew b.27/8/1831, bp.29/8/1831 Thurso
John b.21/8/1833, bp.22/8/1833 Thurso
So, this ties in nicely with the 1841 census details posted by Monica at 11.36 (Flora should be 17 not 67).
By 1851 - living in Tarbat - Ann has remarried to a William Sutherland and only McIntosh with them is Barbara - aged shown as 20 but should read 22.
Ann Sutherland died 9/9/1866 in Tarbat (aged 76) - shown as widow, formerly McIntosh. Cause of Death 'Ailing for years'. Her parents are given as Andrew Ross and Flora nee Sutherland. In formant of death was son George McIntosh.
According to 1851/1861 census Ann was born in Nigg, R & C - from census and death entry her age various between 1791 and 1796!
I don't think the Nairn man is yours at all, I'm afraid. Your family seemed to have no connection to Nairn. With Daniel and Ann's youngest child b.1833 and no trace of him in 1841 she may well have been a widow already. (Sometime between 1841 and 1851 she remarries to William Sutherland.)
With their first child being George born 1820 the Scottish naming tradition would suggest that Daniel's father was a George. Going by the age of his wife, and date of marriage - 1819 - Daniel likely to have been born ca.1791-1801.
Annette
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That is great to have such confirmation and new info too Annette :)
Like you, don't think that the Daniel from Nairn is correct. However, Daniel, father, does seem to have been a sailor which is likely why research seems to have gone down that way.
Monica
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Thanks Monica & Annette,
I'm getting confused now, but agree that the Nairn Daniel might not be my guy. I had the info about him from my cousin, but no documents. Will try getting birth/marriage certs to see if that clears anything up. Thanks for all you help. It's been amazing!
Janice :)
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I've just downloaded John's Death certificate, He was John McIntosh, Mason's labourer, married to Margaret Urquhart.
Died 25th October 1894 (8.25pm) at Tradespark, Nairn, aged 54 years. His father was Daniel McIntosh, Ships carpenter, deceased. Mother Annie McIntosh, MS Ross, deceased. Died of Liver Disease of an unknown duration. Informant was Jamie McIntosh, Son of (Clary, Dulnain Bridge, Grantown - very difficult to read) Death registered 29th Oct 1894 at Nairn.
James appears as a 1 year old in the 1881 Census, so would have been 13 when his father died. Probably wouldn't expect him to know his grandmother had remarried, especially as she died long before he was born.
I'll have a bit of fun learning how to navigate the Scotlands people site & hopefully get a bit more info. will try to look for Daniel mcIntosh - ships Carpenter.
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I've just had a closer look at John's death cert, & think his age is 59, not 54, which fits in a lot better.
terrible writing!
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Writing can be hard sometimes to make out or image can be very faint. When this happens, you can always contact SP to request a better scan if required. They are very good at responding to this type of request - see www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=1210
We also have a deciphering help board here on RC where people can try to work with you to figure out all sorts of writings etc - see www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,425.0.html
Monica :)
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Thanks for that Monica - I'll give it a go, especially to find out where Jamie lived.
Janice