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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: earlybird on Saturday 18 May 13 00:59 BST (UK)
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I'm presuming pastoral property owners kept records of their employees but am not sure where to start looking.
I'm particularly interested in the Para Stations (Darling River, NSW near Wentworth) purchased in February, 1873 by two men, John Cumming of Toorak (Para East) and John Hope a landowner from Clare, South Australia (Para West). I found the sale details on Trove.
My g-g grandmother lived/worked on one of these stations in the late 1800s with her 2nd husband, James Barton Milligan. Details of location were found on the death cert. of my g-g grandmother's niece who was living with them at the time. The young girl was buried on one of these properties. I'm yet to ascertain whether the grave is marked. Looking for it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack! That aside, I'm keen to find out when the Milligans commenced and ceased working at Para and in particular whether other family members joined them.
All suggestions welcome! Thank you.
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Hi earlybird,
Have you looked on "Cora Web" for the death of the young girl? The site is broken into states.
Also. Have you googled eg, girls name+area+year and see what comes?
I've found many useful sites over the years in this way.
clancam
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Hi earlybird,
If the child died on a station and it was an accident or sudden there could possibly be an inquest record. You can check on Ancestry.
A couple of years ago I was trying to find out information relating to a child who might have been buried on a station in the Wilcania area in NSW. This child died while travelling on a road from Milparinka to Wilcania and died on the side of the road. It was believed that she was buried on a station in an unmarked grave. I was also trying to find station records in the 1890's that might give a record of the child that died and was possibly buried on the station. I found that the station in question had been taken over by a larger company in later years and that the station records were with this larger company. I had to do a lot of research to find out where the records were kept and in the end found out that the records that I was seeking were housed in a building on the homestead and were destroyed in a bushfire. The remainder of the homestead records were in Queensland with a large pastoral company such as Elders.
I obtained a death transcript of the child that died and the burial place provided by the father was not the outback station but somewhere different.
Some of the places I contacted were the Wentworth Historical Society and also used RootsWeb Ancestry.com.au joining their forum for Outback NSW. Also, if you can find out who the current homestead station owners are and contact them they are often aware of marked and unmarked graves on their stations. We did have relatives in Wentworth who had previously lived on a station in the area and knew quite a few of the current station owners so he was able to contact people. This was all done a couple of years ago so I'm a bit rustry recalling some of the things I used.
It did take lots of digging but eventually I was able to find out if records were held and where they possibly could be.
Regards Kaybron
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This might be worth a try. ::)
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Central-para-station-farm-stay/291738504185452
Neil
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Thanks Kaybron,
Your advice makes sense - I think I'll start with the Wentworth Historical Society and try and find out who owns the property now. It may well be a big corporate body, possibly not even Australian. Could be interesting trying to locate info!
I know that John Hope's house in Clare was destroyed (or partially destroyed) by the 1983 Ash Wednesday bushfires so I'm hoping not too many records of employees were kept there! I know the details about the child's death but it would be satisfying to locate her exact place of rest.
I'm just as interested in finding out if any of my g-g grandmother's siblings followed her as we have one brother unaccounted for.
Thanks for your suggestions. Much appreciated. :)
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Neil, that Facebook site looks very handy - thank you! ;D I'll get in touch with them.
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Clancam37
I've not heard of Cora Web before so that's a new tool for me to try out. Thank you. :)
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This may be worthwhile as well!
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CD8QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cockatoovalley.com%2Ftrent%2FTrent%2520Niemann's%2520Families%2Fb4.htm&ei=lTuXUY2yH6mRiQeawYCIAw&usg=AFQjCNGrJkRFik0N70r_1gt7bn9NOCXtMA&bvm=bv.46751780,d.aGc
Neil
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Hi there,
Are you only looking for the exact location of the gravesite for your gg grandmother's niece, or are you also seeking information about your gg grandmother? I ask because I have quite a number of offline NSW resources, particularly for the Western Division of NSW in the 19thC, as several of my ancestoral lines were up and down the Darling Back Blocks some were out there as drovers and shearers and Cobb and Co drivers, then there's several as Policemen, and court officials, errr for much of that century and into the 20thC .... Decades ago I had regular access to the hardcopy volumes of the Bourke & District Historic Society's papers. I now have the CD which is full of the 13 volumes of those papers, and is keyword searchable.
Sadly I can confirm that the various employee station records are not often found, perhaps because they were not needed to be kept in the same official way as say employee records are kept for various legal purposes today.
Also re unmarked graves ..... with the climatic conditions and the tyranny of distance factors, there's every reason to simply understand that a grave would have been dug, and a ceremony held, perhaps with the station owner or the most senior person present conducting the service,(Overseer or Superintendent or Manager). This does not suggest a lack of religion for the deceased, but simply that the distance to the nearest clergy may have been hundreds of miles TO him, and then hundreds of miles BACK with him and then the same distance twice more to take the clergyman back TO his home and for the person doing the fetching to return back to the station itself.
Sadly the practical issues would have been addressed ..... the ongoing health and hygiene of the community at the station would have been paramount and the burial would have been fairly soon after the death, which if sudden could well have been without any medico present.
I will have a quick look for your gg grandmother's second husband in case I can find some item of interest.
Many cheers, JM
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I forgot to add the following links
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369775.0.html this is full of further links. It is the RChat Australian Resources Board and it is an absolutely fantastic place to find links for all sorts of family history queries.
http://www.coraweb.com.au/ This is the website that clancam mentioned .... it is very good too
Cheers, JM
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Burials on stations/properties can be a bit of a bit and miss at times.
I have had 2 lots over the years on separate properties. One was " buried out there somewhere" sort of thing and the other was buried in a private cemetery on the property. There were quiet a few buried on that property and they had it fenced off and kept reasonably clean and tidy. We got permission to go out there and the caretaker of the property met us and showed us where it was. We also got a terrific history lesson into the bargain ;D Some had headstones and some didnt but it was a very interesting afternoon :)
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Hi there,
From Sands Pastoral Directory 1903
WENTWORTH (Pastures Protection Board) District
Inspector D A MORGAN
Owner
HOPE, Trustees of J,
Station: Para,
Post Town : Wentworth
Horses : 35; Cattle 16; Sheep 22766 (yes thats nearly 23,000 head, and Para was by no means the largest of those sheep stations
. At that time, William Crozier was running 23931 sheep, The Cudmore Brothers had 29,768 on their station, )
From Sands 1904 Pastoral Dir
HOPE, Trustees of J, Para, Wentworth
.. 35 horses, 12 cattle, and 2800 sheep. (yes only 2 thousand 8 hundred)
ADDING
Sands 1909 Pastoral Directory
HOPE, R E H, Para, Wentworth
. 41 Horses, 220 Cattle and 21736 sheep.
Sands 1914 Pastoral Directory
HOPE, R E H, Para, Wentworth
103 Horses, 137 cattle, 17884 sheep, 159146 acres,
Cheers, JM
Cheers, JM
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Thanks everyone, you've provided plenty of resources & advice for me to consider.
Majm, I initially wanted to locate the grave of the young women (Amy Olive West Harris) which I think may be on the Tapio run (Para East). For the very reasons you've explained I realise the chances of finding a grave are remote and if located I'd be surprised if it had a headstone.
My g-g grandmother died many years later and is buried in the Mildura cemetery without a headstone so that's probably an indication of what their financial status was.
if you come across the name Joseph Harris, Anne Harris OR Elizabeth Jane Harris or Milligan, I'd be very interested to hear from you. In the meantime I'll check out the other options. Thanks. EB
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Hi there, I am also looking for records of my 2ng grandfather who was a stockman first iaround 1873 at Gol Gol station and then at Para station in 1874. His name was James Robinson, born in 1848, married Hannah Slade in 1874 in Wentworth. I noticed that there is a Charles Robinson buried at Gol Gol Cemetery but I am unsure if he is related. Prior to his marriage to Hannah I am unclear how he ended up at Gol Gol. I believe he was born in Liverpool and I think I have found his baptism record but trying to verify that. If anyone can point me in the direction for these two stations I would very much appreciate it. Thank you and I look forward to hearing from you, Deb
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Hi there,
:)
Welcome to RootsChat, it is the very best place for help with family history.
I will see if I have any further information to share re your James Robinson and your Hannah Slade in my offline resources.
JM
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Hi JM, I would really appreciate it, thank you,, Deb
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Hello Debbie
Looks as though the Charles Robinson buried at Gol Gol actually had the surname BRADSHAW and the "Robinson" was his second Christian name, making his full name Charles Robinson BRADSHAW, so probably no relation to your James ROBINSON.
There's a photo of his grave here - sadly drowned
http://www.wentworth.nsw.gov.au/heritage-study-item-54.aspx
Editing to add:
This seems to be the death registration for the man on the headstone:
Charles R BRADSHAW, registration: 10855/1880, Wentworth
parents William, Rebecca
There is a death registration for another man with the surname ROBINSON who seems to have drowned also in the Murray:
1885 #14794, registered Wentworth
Charles H ROBINSON, 28, died Murray River, WENTWORTH
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Thank you. I have been told one of James's sons died in a similar incident on the property of Rio Vista, although I am yet to find proof.
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Marriage of James ROBINSON and Hannah SLADE, reg 1873, #4207, Wentworth NSW
This marriage certificate should give you his birthplace and parent names. A transcription is cheaper than buying from NSW BMDs and costs about $20. There are 3 registered transcription agents listed on the website - they are all very good.
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/familyhistory.aspx#Askafamilyhistorytranscriptionagent
There are a couple of trees on Ancestry but they give no references for James and Hannah before their marriage although they suggest that Hannah was born in South Australia. One of the trees has Hannah dying in UK when clearly her death was registered in Wentworth in 1885, and their child George's death registration number is close to that of Hannah.
I'm adding to the comments above re the Charles ROBINSON whose headstone is in the photo on my previous post.
This seems to be the death registration for the man on the headstone:
Charles R BRADSHAW, registration: 10855/1880, Wentworth
parents William, Rebecca
There is a death registration for another man with the surname ROBINSON who seems to have drowned also in the Murray:
1885 #14794, registered Wentworth
Charles H ROBINSON, 28, died Murray River, WENTWORTH
Judith
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TROVE has an account of this drowning which seems to be the Charles H ROBINSON whose death is registered 1885.
He seems to have been the owner of a river-boat.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/198388189
Oh how sad - the child he had tried to save was also drowned.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/160734694
Walter H ROBINSON, registered: 14796/1885, Wentworth
Parents: Charles H, Mary
Death notice for Charles BRADSHAW, drowned 29 January 1880
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60095903
Judith
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Hi there,
I have not yet placed your James at either Gol Gol or at Para, but I am still searching through my offline resources.
I can see a chap named James ROBINSON, at Cowl Cowl, in 1878. This is closer to Hay than I had anticipated, but still within the same electorate as Wentworth.
NSW Electoral Roll 1878, (Electorate of) BALRANALD (which includes the much extensive Police District of Oxley and a number of other police districts too, including Wentworth)
James ROBINSON, Cowl Cowl, residence, Lachlan River, Oxley P.D.
I have not yet found anyone with surname SLADE on the 1870 or 1878 electoral rolls for Balranald.
still looking :)
JM
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I have not yet found anyone with surname SLADE on the 1870 or 1878 electoral rolls for Balranald.
still looking :)
JM
Of possible interest. Death.
SLADE William
10884/1880
Age 65 Yrs
At WENTWORTH
Hannah's (nee SLADE) father at her death is stated as William.
ROBINSON Hannah
14793/1885
Parents William & Anne
At WENTWORTH
Sue
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Biographical index of South Australia has the following information about William SLADE.
Born c. 1815 Ireland. Died 15/12 1880 in Wentworth NSW.
Arrived 'Rajsthan" 1840. Occ. Shepherd.Lived at Harrogate, Monarto. Religion, Presbyterian.
Married 25/8/1843 at Adelaide, SA to Sarah Lo'vanberyl, parents John and Mary born 1826. Died 15/7/1903 at Murray Bridge SA.
Children, Mary (1844). Wm John (1836- 1937).Thos (1848-)Sarah (1850-) Hannah (1853-). Jane Gogel ( 1855-1881). Emma 1857). Friend Hedman Allgood (1859 --1822). Geo (1862 1955). Harriett (1864). Eliz (1867-1939)
This information would seem to be the basis of the assertion on the Ancestry family tree mentioned above, that Hannah was born in SA.
Sue
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Hi Judith, the Robinsons you refer to in the drowning incident aren't my Robinsons, but thank you for the information. Deb
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I have not yet found anyone with surname SLADE on the 1870 or 1878 electoral rolls for Balranald.
still looking :)
JM
Of possible interest. Death.
SLADE William
10884/1880
Age 65 Yrs
At WENTWORTH
Hannah's (nee SLADE) father at her death is stated as William.
ROBINSON Hannah
14793/1885
Parents William & Anne
At WENTWORTH
Sue
Sue these are my Slade's. William my 2nd Great Grandfather, Hannah is daughter who was the first wife of my 2nd Great Grandfather, James Robinson, and her sister Harriet, James's second wife after Hannah's death. I have the extract from the book that is about the ship the Slade's immigrated to Australia on.
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Hi there,
I have not yet placed your James at either Gol Gol or at Para, but I am still searching through my offline resources.
I can see a chap named James ROBINSON, at Cowl Cowl, in 1878. This is closer to Hay than I had anticipated, but still within the same electorate as Wentworth.
NSW Electoral Roll 1878, (Electorate of) BALRANALD (which includes the much extensive Police District of Oxley and a number of other police districts too, including Wentworth)
James ROBINSON, Cowl Cowl, residence, Lachlan River, Oxley P.D.
I have not yet found anyone with surname SLADE on the 1870 or 1878 electoral rolls for Balranald.
still looking :)
JM
Hi JM, between 1877 and 1880 James and Hannah were living in Monarto and Wentworth, how far would this property you have found a James living be from Wentworth, that is where a child was born around this time? On the wedding certificate of James and Hannah, it says Gol Gol Station. Don't know how long he was there for as this is the first record I can find of him in Australia so far. Deb
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Hi JM, you mentioned that you had found records of a James Robinson at Cowl Cowl Station, can you provide a link on where these records are please? I only just found your messages again, i hope you can assist? Thank you Deb
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My records are in hardcopy format. The NSW State Library and the NSW State Archives were and continue to be excellent for primary sources.
NSW State Library has the electoral rolls all the way back to the beginning of responsible government. Hi JM, you mentioned that you had found records of a James Robinson at Cowl Cowl Station, can you provide a link on where these records are please? I only just found your messages again, i hope you can assist? Thank you Deb
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Hi Judith
My 2nd great grandparents were James Robinson and Harriet Matilda Slade, Hannah's sister, they married after Hannah died from an infection after giving birth to George who also passed away. I have James and Hannah's marriage certificate which shows James's parents names as Ann Peterson and Thomas Robinson. I have also found James's baptism record with the same parents in Manchester in 1848. I have traced him through the census until he was 20 years of age but are yet to find him on a passenger ship to Australia. The family storey I have been told doesn't match the records I have uncovered and the ship given in that story and other records does not exist as a passenger ship at that time. The earliest record I have of James is his marriage record to Hannah but I have also a newspaper article that is from a court session where he was charged for assault in a bar fight near Cowl Cowl where it states he was a bullock driver passing through the town. James was a bullock driver for sometime, particularly in Mildura where he built the irrigation channels for the Chaffey family. The marriage record to Hannah also states he was a stockman at Gol Gol station. I have tried census records and finding records from stations that he worked but are yet to find records of him at any of the stations apart from official records where they are recorded as well as in his obituary. After the death of Hannah she was buried with her two infant sons in Wentworth cemetery likely in an unmarked grave. Harriet and James then resided in Mildura for the remainder of their lives. I am happy to provide further details if you have any questions and would be interested to hear how you descend from the Robinson/Slade family?
Kind regards
Deb