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Family History Documents and Artefacts => FH Documents and Artefacts => Topic started by: youngtug on Monday 20 May 13 21:51 BST (UK)
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More pictures from a carboot, these are glass slides, a lot of which are of engineering items and machinery. I was wondering if anyone could place the site and era. These are some of a few that have people in the picture, maybe someone will be recognised.
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Another great find YT!!
1940's ? ... :-\ No idea on the works
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No idea where it is but it seems to be a large works. From other photos I can see that they had a foundry, look's like die-cast alloy. Also machining operations carried out, like this one, a copy mill. Probably a pattern shop and/or patternmaker/s
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More people
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Number 7 looks like a V12 engine. Going by the ladies dress I'd guess at 30s-50s.
Possibly manufacture of Rolls Royce Merlin engines but there are many V12s and they have been around for a while.
S_L
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Number 7 looks like a V12 engine. Going by the ladies dress I'd guess at 30s-50s.
Possibly manufacture of Rolls Royce Merlin engines but there are many V12s and they have been around for a while.
S_L
my thoughts are similar, that it is a major works hastily converted to war production, maybe aero engines or possibly tank engines as they seem to be making large quantities of heavy engineering
products.
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It could be Rolls Royce, it is a fair sized place by the looks of it.
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http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=a+merlin+is+made&submit=&items_per_page=10
For comparison, ministry of information photographs for a series called how a merlin is made.
S_L
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The very high numbers of women in most slides strongly suggests that the photos were taken during WWII, when many women replaced men who were fighting.
Regards, Ron
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More intriguing photos YT. Are they all go the same engineering works or could there be several?
I would agree with Ron that the high numbers of women workers point to during WWII. Also the style of clothing.
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First picture looks like they are producing some sort of decorative concrete panel ???
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I'm no engineering expert but whatever is going on in #5 the thing is moving or vibrating.
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I think several on page one are maybe in Japan - or some other Asian place. The photos look different don't they and the people also.
?? 34, 58 and 60??
Has someone already made that observation??
Another great find YT! ;)
Wiggy
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I can sort of see what you mean Wiggy, but I'm not convinced about it being in Japan. I'd go with the UK at this point.
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I'm no engineering expert but whatever is going on in #5 the thing is moving or vibrating.
Sorry, it is a copy mill. The top probe is following the contour,s of the pattern and the bottom milling cutter is machining the same contours into the workpiece. The blur you are alluding to when you say vibrating is because of my scanning technique ::)
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I think several on page one are maybe in Japan - or some other Asian place. The photos look different don't they and the people also.
Wiggy
All same place I think, not Japan. All slides are of the same set.
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First picture looks like they are producing some sort of decorative concrete panel ???
Casting,s. Aluminium alloy. There are slides showing the pouring of it.
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Hi, definitely a very large works assuming they were all at the same place which I suspect they are, where was the car boot sale? if the slides stayed in the same area there could be a clue there.
Frank.
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No works of this nature where I bought them. The people selling said it had been the property of their father, so, but what location was not mentioned. They put a high value on these; 2 boxes=50pence.
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They put a high value on these; 2 boxes=50pence.
Absolutely amazing :o how do you do it? :)
Frank.
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I think I would agree with "still_looking" and go for Rolls Royce.
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Yes that's what I am thinking, I know they used to (they may still) have a large Engineering works at Derby in the UK.
Frank.
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Not the only one
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Look what I found
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Wow! Thats a complete plan of a department.
Frank.
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No idea what they may be making but before reading the earlier replies I also thought WW2 era, possibly manufacturing something for the war effort.
Another great find Youngtug! (did you get any others? ;))
;D
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O yes ;)
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Yes that's what I am thinking, I know they used to (they may still) have a large Engineering works at Derby in the UK.
Frank.
Also at Barnoldswick, Lancs.
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Also Bristol, which is nearer were I got them. Although that may not mean anything.
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#4 photo looks like headlamps and one of the later photos looks like a casting for an engine.
I'm wondering if they're making lorries for the army
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Casting
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Hi YT,
I'll admit to not having studied them all yet. I've noticed that no 9 is of a tensile test machine (Avery?) and no 7 of a V-12 aero engine crankcase being checked with a vernier height gauge. I'm not sure if the thing is big enough to be a Merlin but I'd also suggest Rolls-Royce or possibly one of their sub contractors e.g. Rover who also built such engines I believe.
A wonderful find again.
Alan
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Even Ford built the Merlin under licence.
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The diagram mentions 'fettling' which apparently is : Loose sand or ore used to line the hearth of a reverberatory furnace in preparation for pouring molten metal.
So maybe there was vibration after all.
S_L
p.s. I did wonder about the size of the engines but comparing one of the iwm images with one you've posted they seem broadly similar.
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The castings are die cast. I would think the fettling done was to remove the extra bits of the casting and sharp edges, that is what we have always called fettling, maybe also polish it off a bit. Such as in the photo of the women using the abrasive disc. Hopefully there was no vibration on the milling machine, although I have seen the result of "chatter"
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I'm interested to know
- why were they taking photos by that method in those years?? :-\
Wiggy
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I had exactly the same thought, Wiggy. I'd have expected something like 35 mm slides by WWII, although I believe glass slides were used in some movie theatres until at least the 1960s and possibly later. I think the dress of the women (in particular) is more like 1940s than earlier or later eras.
(It's also interesting to note the minimal safety equipment and protective clothing compared to what would be found in a similar plant today.)
Regards, Ron
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I think that it was a little early for 35mm slides. These are lecture slides by the look of them, apart from the ones I have posted there are several showing the molecular structure of different stages of the metal and also some of the parts. Three and a quarter inches by three and a quarter inches [3&1/4" x 3&1/4"] square glass slides was a common format of slides used for lectures etc, in the UK a lot later than the date of these.
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More
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Not the best footwear for the job in that last photo.
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More;
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YT,
Some of the latest ones you've posted have a certain particular "blur" about them. I don't know whether anyone has said this before but I wonder if some of the original images were extracted from a (movie) film. You might want to contact the Bradford Museum or some other industrial film archive.
Of course, it may just be an artefact of the copying/scanning method you've employed so I apologise in advance for my daft idea. ::)
Alan
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I am afraid it is a result of my use of the scanner that results in a blur. They are presentation slides meant to go with a lecture or suchlike. The thing I don't know is, what firm/manufacturer it was and when exactly. We have had some good ideas of date put forward and I think the general belief is that it was Rolls Royce, but where. Maybe someone from the photos will get recognized, although with my standard of scanning that might be a forlorn hope.
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Do you have some sort of slide holder? I've tried scanning similar items before but the focus always ends up on the paper covered edge rather than the image. Photographing them is an alternative apparently but you need a good light source.
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Might be able to use them has a negative with photographic paper, a bit like the contact strips that used to be done with 35mm film. Unnecessary though,
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I suppose if we knew an appropriate museum or enthusiastic collector we could work out who the manufacturer was and what they were exactly manufacturing.
Like others I've surfed the web looking to see if I could spot any old sub assemblies made by Perkins, (Armstrong/Hawker) Siddeley and other once famous household names. Unfortunately I found nothing.
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YT,
You could try contacting this society, http://www.enginehistory.org/, their website includes several updates solely concerning manufacturing. They might be willing to have a look and clarify more precisely what sort of engine it is and maybe more.
S_L
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still_looking, I will send them a link to this thread.
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Couple more;
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I have had a reply from the link that still_looking provided and they confirm it is Rolls Royce Merlin engines being made.
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Hi, that looks like a bit of a breakthrough then, :) anyone know where the factory was?
Frank.
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They are working on it, will let you know when I know.
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Rolls Royce engines were made at Derby and Crewe - don't know where else they were made though.
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Hopefully there may be more detail.
S_L
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The thought was that it was the works at Hillingdon, Glasgow but they where hoping for confirmation from someone. So far no more progress.
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Definitely Derby and Crewe, but weren't they also made in some railway engineering works which had been partly directed to the war effort?
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I have heard no more from the people I contacted. I did find this though; http://player.mashpedia.com/player.php?q=-fo7SmNuUU4&lang=
PS; I wrote Hillingdon when I should have said Hillington.
PPS; I started another thread because this one was locked; http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=689133.0