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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Clackmannanshire => Topic started by: TJMichie on Monday 27 May 13 02:55 BST (UK)

Title: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: TJMichie on Monday 27 May 13 02:55 BST (UK)
Hello,
I've recently begun researching my family history and I've been using a sheet of paper my great grandfather put together. I'm posting this here hoping I can get more information on the Michies mentioned, specifically siblings and full names, what I'm putting here is all I have, as well as some information on the people/families mentioned.

The reason I say I'm looking for full names is, when my great grandfather put this together, his focus was on the fact our line is all Johns and Alexanders. For example, his name was Frances John Alexander, but he's simply listed as "John". I'm sure many of these are middle names and I'm sure things would be easier on me if I had their full names plus any death dates and such as well. After taking a quick look through a few threads, it seems to me a lot of last names of spouses are mentioned here. I'm not looking for official help, more anecdotal for now. I'm just hoping to connect up with some or a few people and fill in a few blanks. As a side note, while everyone appears to have been born in Alloa, the town name I always heard as a child was Tillicoultry. Don't think that means anything, but it's there.

A cousin of mine has been able to fill in some stuff on more recent generations, such as extended family through spouses, so I won't include anything more recent than my great grandfather here, but he's the first one born outside Crackmannanshire from the looks of things. Myself, my father and my grandfather were all born in British Columbia, Canada. My great grandfather was born in Pennsylvania and his father was, apparently, born in Crackmannanshire. Anyway, from the beginning:
All Alexanders and Johns are Michies
-----
Alexander b.Unknown
Married Isobel Janet MacLarine
Son Alexander Christened Aug 1668

Alexander married Elizabeth Spowart Aug 26, 1695
Son John b.May 11, 1701

John married Agnes Aitken Dec 29,1726
Son John b.Dec 27 1729

John married Margaret Jack Aug 24, 1743
Son John b.Feb 9, 1759

John married Frances Erskine Snadon Jan 26, 1788
Son John b.Mar 24,1793

John married Elizabeth Hunter Jan 26, 1813
Son John b.Feb 12, 1818

John married Margaret Black Paterson Jan 24, 1837
Son John b.May 11, 1839

John married Helen Clement Oct 11, 1858
Son John Aug 10, 1859

John married Isabella Jane Burden 1878 (no month or date)
Son Alexander May 31, 1884

Alexander married Martha Suttie
Son John mar 26, 1914

If anyone has anything they can add to this and help me out, I'd be more than appreciative!
-Tyson
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 27 May 13 09:36 BST (UK)
Hi Tyson

Welcome to RootsChat  :)

Just picking out some of the couples to try to help.

John Michie and Helen Clement marriage https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTL2-ST5

1871 Census to help expand on the family - everone born in Alloa:

John Michie 31, general clerk
Helen Michie 30
John Michie 11
Alexander Michie 9
Helen Michie 4
Margaret Michie 2
Elizabeth Michie 1 month
James Michie 14 brother, Factory Worker
Christina Michie 10 sister

Address: Private House, Tillicoultry

And from 1881:

John Michie 41 Coal Weigher
Helen C Michie 41
Alexander Michie 19, Enginekeeper At Works
Helen Michie 14
Margaret Michie 12
Elizabeth Michie 10
James Michie 8
Andrew Michie 6
George Michie 4
Jeanie Michie 1...last born I think.
Christina Michie 20, sister, Woollen Millworker

Address: No 1 Devonside, Tillicoultry

1891, the family still show at 1 Devonside, with John Snr. working as a Pitheadman.

Monica
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 27 May 13 09:53 BST (UK)
The next line down to Alexander b. 1884, again censuses are a great way of expanding the family to siblings.

From 1891 in Wellington Vancouver - All the Michies showing as born in Scotland, very recently going by the age of the youngest, possibly 1890 (hopefully a shipping manifest entry will let you confirm):

John Michie 31
Issabella Michie 31
Margaret Michie 13...showing as born 31 Jan 1878, so parents married same year  ::)
John Michie 11
Henry Michie 9
Alexander Michie 7
Nelly Michie 5
Joa (?Isa) Michie 3
Elizabeth Mickie 1
P Thomas Williams 49, lodger b. England
   
A few more children for 1901:

John Michie 41, engineer
Isebella Michie 42
Maggie Michie 23
John Michie 21
Henry Michie 19
Alexander Michie 16
Nellie Michie 14
Iac Michie 12
Elizabeth Michie 11
Jane Michie 9
Grace Michie 8
Sadie Michie 6
Fanny Michie 3...last born I think.

Monica

Added: Re shipping records, I think John Snr travelled first (not sure on dates for that). Isabella and the children arrived together on the 'Pomerian' on 24 Sep 1890 at Quebec heading for Wellington.
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 27 May 13 10:07 BST (UK)
Alexander Michie married Martha Irilla Suttie on 20 May 1908 in Nanaimo. I think this is their 1911 census entry in Ladysmith, Nanaimo (mis transcribed):

Alexander Michock 27, teamster, b. Scotland
Martha Michock 25 b. USA
Martha Irela Michock 2 b. BC

Monica
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 27 May 13 10:29 BST (UK)
Just a little more, and then we can talk about sources where you can also look up further info and research.

John Michie and Margaret Black Paterson, you had their marriage as 24 Jan 1837. Just a note, Margaret is showing as Margaret Black on the children's Parish/Register entries so not sure where the Paterson comes in for her.

Possible 1841 entry:

John Michie 25, collier
Margt Black 20
John Michie 2 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBKD-K6T

Address: Holtin Square, Alloa

From 1851, everyone showing as born in Alloa except for mother Margaret:

John Michie 34 coal miner
Margaret Michie 32 b. Sauchie
John Michie 11
Margaret Michie 9
Betsey Michie 6
Jane Michie 2

Address: Cockneylane, Alloa

And 1861, for a little more on the children:

John Michie 43, coal miner
Margt Michie 41
Elisabeth Michie 15
Jane Michie 13
Margt Michie 7
James Michie 4
George Michie 2
Christina Michie 1...think she was last born.

Address: Carse Bridge, Alloa

Monica
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 27 May 13 10:42 BST (UK)
Just wanted to add some resources and links to help you in your searches:

General collection of links and resources here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,504968.0.html

Excellent free resources include:

FamilySearch/ LDS here https://familysearch.org/search
 
Free census compiled by volunteers. 100% coverage so far of Clackmannashire for 1841 http://freecen.rootsweb.com/

Pay to view for original images of BMDs/Censuses/Old Parish Register entries www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search/marriage/index.aspx

To help you get your bearings! Map of Scottish Counties - www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/index.html and maps of parishes within the counties - www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-maps.htm

Monica
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: TJMichie on Monday 27 May 13 15:41 BST (UK)
I knew I came to the right place!

Yes, it looks like you found the right line. Thanks for the info on Black/Paterson. I figured out there was likely an error or two in there (the Erskine-Snadon part doesn't seem right, either) so I'm sure I'll find a few more. This is just a write-up my great grandfather did 30 or so years ago and almost reads like Proverbs, but the word "begat" wasn't used. It is exclusive to my direct line of Johns and Alexanders and traces back to the 1668 christening.

Thank you as well for the map of Scottish counties. I have to say it would have been more helpful a week ago, haha, but Google Earth helped me out a bit. One thing I'm having a little trouble with is when I go farther back into the history of the Michie name. Several sources have said the first recorded Michie is one "John Mychy" in a rental book from Cupar Angus Aberdeenshire. When I look up Cupar Angus, though, it takes me down south closer to Clackannenshire. There is also, evidently, a large branch of Michies stemming from Aberdeenshire under the Forbes clan. Looking at the shape of it, was Aberdeenshire longer/larger c.1473 and was Cupar Angus ever considered part of it? I'm (probably in an excercize of futility) trying to connect the Michies of Clackannenshire to the "Michael MacDonald" who supposedly left the MacDonald clan and who's children became the first Michies. Evidently, the Michies do hold connection with the MacDonalds and the Forbes, and basic agreement is that Michael left and either he or a descendant joined up with the Forbes clan. The biggest problem I face is that the only thing I have telling me Michael MacDonald even existed is a story in a book that comes from a letter written between two Michies in the 1800s plus some mentions of the story, but no other tellings.

I'm gonna be honest and say Scottish history is WAY more interesting than the English history I've been doing for my wife (but her Greek tops them all) and way more interesting than I thought it was.

Again, thanks for all the info and tips. I'm sure I'll be back very soon with more questions!
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: TJMichie on Monday 27 May 13 16:01 BST (UK)
Alexander Michie married Martha Irilla Suttie on 20 May 1908 in Nanaimo. I think this is their 1911 census entry in Ladysmith, Nanaimo (mis transcribed):

Alexander Michock 27, teamster, b. Scotland
Martha Michock 25 b. USA
Martha Irela Michock 2 b. BC

Monica

This is kind of messing me up here. My family did come to BC and was in Vancouver area for a couple generations, but my:
Grandfather was born in Vancouver
Great grandfather was born in Pennsylvania
Great great grandfather was born in Alloa, Clackmannanshire

or so the story goes. My grandfather had American citizenship for as long as I knew him, so it stands to reason that we didn't come straight to Canada through Quebec, unless Alexander 1884 went Scotland-Vancouver-Pennsylvania-Vancouver, which I suppose is possible, but I don't think is likely.
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 27 May 13 17:31 BST (UK)
Who is great great grandfather? Is it Alexander Michie born in 1884?

The marriage for Alexander to Martha certainly seems to show in 1908 and that 1911 entry in Ladysmith, Nanaimo fits really in every respect (I think!). With Martha showing as American, wonder if they went back to the US for a few years and this is where you have the American birth?

Just checked...there is an entry for a crossing from Canada to the US for them in 1913. Daughter showing as Irilla it looks like. Alexander, occupation teamster, gave his father John's details as contact in Canada. Contact details for the US are Martha's father, Archie in Pennsylvania. You will probably recognise the place name, whilst I struggle with it! See below.

Did Alexander b. 1884 die back in Vancouver area (25 Dec 1961)?
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: TJMichie on Monday 27 May 13 19:02 BST (UK)
Sorry, great grandfather is the son of Alexander 1884. He was born in 1914 in Alleghany, Potter, PA.
Looks to me like it says "Option, PA" which is an area of Pittsburgh and I found record of an Archie Suttie from Option, PA having passed in WWI. Doesn't tell me how he got from Option (ironically in Alleghany County) to Alleghany in Potter County, but that does confirm they hit Vancouver first.
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 27 May 13 19:10 BST (UK)
Tyson, I think from the earlier censuses we had posted in Canada (1891 and 1900), also the migration record of the family to Canada, John and Isabella and children, you have them in BC from 1890. Alexander shows in 1913 as having entered the US a couple of times prior to his marriage in 1908 (maybe how he met Martha, although haven't found her yet in the earlier censuses before her marriage). The marriage of Alexander and Martha is on record (I can give you the refs). Not sure what details were recorded on marriage certs there for these years.

You then have Alexander and Martha, following their 1908 marriage in Nanaimo, in Canada for 1911 with one daughter. With that same daughter, they crossed into the US, on their way to PA, in 1913. The year after, from what you had, your grandfather John was born in 1914.

Can't see them in the US for 1920. Nor can I see their crossing back to the Canada. Likely death for Alexander b. 1884 on Christmas Day, 1961 in Vancouver.

Monica
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: TJMichie on Thursday 30 May 13 14:52 BST (UK)
Thanks! You're a HUGE help.
I was yesterday able to find out that the first name on the list, Isobel Janet MacLarine, should read Isabel Snadon. I also found several brothers and sisters for Alexander 1885 I never knew about. The line seems to fade out there which makes me really want to find out where they came from to Clackmannanshire.
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: patvp1 on Thursday 13 June 13 00:22 BST (UK)
Hi - Just spotted your msge re Michie's.
I have Alexander Michie born 1644 Clackmannan, Clackmannanshire,  married Isabel Snadon 02 Nov 1665 Alloa, children as follows all born Alloa, from my notes pretty certain got them off the old IGI  :D
James 1666, Janet 1666, Alexander 1668, James 1668, Janet 1671, Elspet 1673, Isabell 1673, Margaret 1676, Christian 1679, Janet 1681, Jean 1686.

Hope this helps  ;D

My line is through Agnes/Ann Michie 1771 Alloa, Daughter of James Michie and Charlotte Paterson.

As they say every little helps. ::)

Regards Patvp
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: BMichie on Saturday 22 June 19 03:43 BST (UK)
Hi There, I just stumbled across your rather old post and wondered whether you were still actively researching the Michie's? Regards
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: patvp1 on Monday 24 June 19 00:58 BST (UK)
Hi B Michie - Cannot say am keeping up with the family, at over eighty years old usually only answer queries (if possible) is there anything in particular you wish to know ?? let me know and will do my best lol,,,,regards Par...
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: BMichie on Monday 24 June 19 02:32 BST (UK)
Hi Pat,
Thanks for your response. It is some years since I researched my tree but I have just returned from Scotland where a quick visit to Alloa prompted me to dig out my family tree and look up a couple of findings. I was trying to find information on the parents of Francis Erskine Snadon (many different spellings for Snadon) born 1769.  I visite castle Forbes near Aberdeen and met with our Clan Chief. I note that his tree included Lord Erskine - Earl of Mar (Alloa). I note your lineage is from James Michie 1668. Mine is through Alexander, also 1668. (a busy year for Isabel!!) The Michie's and the Snadons appear in marriage quite a bit). I see you are in QLD. I am in Victoria, born Bridge of Allan near Alloa - many years ago. Cheers
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 24 June 19 08:16 BST (UK)
There was a Michie on TV a couple of years ago who claimed that the origin was MacDonnel of Keppoch?

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 24 June 19 09:15 BST (UK)
There was a Michie on TV a couple of years ago who claimed that the origin was MacDonnel of Keppoch
G F Black's Surnames of Scotland says that Michie is an Aberdeenshire name found mainly in Strathdon, Glengairn and Crathie, and that they are descended from a Michael Macdonald of the Keppoch family.
Title: Re: Michie Lineage in Clackmannanshire
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 24 June 19 09:45 BST (UK)
A John Michie it was, TV & film actor!

Skoosh.