RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: LizzyFaire on Monday 27 May 13 18:37 BST (UK)
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Hello, I have done a search on this and many other sites regarding the family of Adolphus Levely, who was born aboard ship coming from France in 1821. He eventually landed in Somerville Township in Victoria and died in Burnt River in 1904.
I have, I think, about all of the existing information there is regarding Adolphus (save for the name of the ship). My own particular interest is his daughter (Rosana) Jane, born on Feb. 21st 1861 in Fenelon Twp. She married my gg grandfather Charles Lat(t)imer sometime (or not?) and gave birth to my g grandmother Bertha Mae Latimer c. 1879. She must have died shortly thereafter for in 1881 Bertha is living with her father's family and Jane is nowhere to be found. Charles remarried at least once. Poor Jane is lost to history, other than her birth record, I fear. If anyone has any information, I would be very grateful.
Thank you,
Lizzy
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The Ontario births database has a birth for Julia Valote born 12 May 1881 in Somerville, Victoria with parents listed as William Valote and Rose Ann Jane Levely. There is a notation by Julia's name which indicates she was illegitimate.
The Drouin Collection has a death for a Roseann Lovelly, daughter of Adolphe Lovelly and Rosanne Solus(?) who died 26 Apr 1896 in Montreal and was buried 28 Apr 1896. The entry is from the parish records of Basilique Notre-Dame in Montreal.
Here is a link to a census image for the 1891 census which has Rose A. Lovelly listed as a lodger in Montreal (she's fourth from the bottom of the lower image):
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u8a/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u8a/)
I haven't found any sign of Julia yet however.
Jacquie
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I hope you don't mind my asking but what documentation do you that indicates Bertha's mother was Roseanna Jane?
I saw the Missaukee County, Michigan marriage entry for Bertha Lattemore and Alfred Quibell (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NQS1-6JL (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NQS1-6JL)) and it lists her parents as Charles E. Lattemore and Rachael E. Levely.
Jacquie
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Bertha the daughter married twice. First husband Alfred Quibell and second was Michael Pearson.
The marriage record from Michael indicates her mother is Jane Lively and father Charles Latimer.
I will PM you.
Lilybell
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I was a little concerned since I couldn't find any references to Rosanna being called Jane when she was alive but I'm good now that I've finally found the birth registration for Bertha in the Ontario births database at Ancestry. The writing was really bad and a lot of misspellings. It has an illegitimate baby girl named Birdy (that's what it looks like) born to Miss Royan Jane Lovley on 30 Dec 1879 in Somerville. No father was listed. The informant was Mrs. Lovley.
So Rosann has been found. I'm still coming up empty on Julia.
Jacquie
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Hello, I am so, so sorry I haven't replied sooner. I've been on an island without water, let alone the internet, but I am very grateful for the wonderful leads.
Yes, I got that Rosana Jane was Bertha's mother form Bertha's second marriage to Michael Pearson. I have the marriage entry that said her mother was Rachael E., but for some reason I discounted it (perhaps it was on information on Bertha from my father, Bertha's grandson).
Jacquie, I am very interested in that birth registration you found. I have not been able to track it down on Ancestry. You research skills are far greater than mine. :)
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Jacquie, that 1891 census page listing Roseanne is fascinating! Do you think she was a lodger? I find that page unusual as there is no domicile code or anything indicating which street, etc. And all of the people listed on the page are women, Roman Catholic, and neither married nor widowed. My first impulse is to say a convent. Other options, I suppose, are a brothel or some sort of hospital/asylum.
Wow. I will need to search back through the census to see what comes before that page.
Thank you!!!
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Definitely not a brothel. ;D At Ancestry I had to go back quite a few pages to get to the beginning of the entry and it still didn't give an address but there were a number of pages where all the "given" names listed were "soeur" which is French for sister.
Jacquie
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Hi Jacquie,
From a unwed mother (X2?) raised on a farm in rural Ontario to a nun in Montreal, Rosanna Jane had a varied life. Now I get to tell my 79 year old father his grandmother was illegitimate, I wonder how he'll feel about that.
I was in old Montreal this past January and visited Notre Dame and some of the old religious sites, not knowing one of my ancestors lived there. Now I'll have to go back.
I'm wondering, when Bertha got married the first time at 16, whether she stated her mother was Rachael E. out of some sort of shame. Her own mother was certainly out of her life at that point. However, Rachel was only 12 or so at the time of Bertha's birth, so it's a strong likelihood that we are right about Rosanne Jane.
Now to track Bertha's trajectory - I have a few names to look at. Lovel(l)y, Latimer, Quibell and Pearson were all names she had at one point of another. I know she died sometime after July/August 1928 because my father has some letters dated then from her to my grandfather. She was working at The Be(l)lmont, which was, I believe, in Port Colberg, ON. So, when I get some time off work, back to the computer!
Thanks for all the invaluable support.
L.
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Sounds like it was a convent. Perhaps she was working there or was a resident.
Lilybell
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Yes, lilybell, the congregation of Notre Dame of Montreal (if this is where she lived) was an enormous community of non-cloistered sisters, teachers, missionaries and yes, I suppose, scrub-women and what have you.
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Hello, I've come up with another wrinkle to this convoluted tale. I have found a death record on familysearch for a May Brondi (b. 25 Dec 1883; d. 08 Oct 1928). Parents: Charlie Latamor and "Lovely". Husband: Frank Brondi of Brantford, ON. Could this be my ggrandmother, Bertha May Latimer? The birth date is wrong, of course. But my instincts are leading me this way. I don't know what to think anymore.
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There is a marriage in 1923 for Charles Quibell, son of Alfred Quibell and Bertha May Latimer in Norfolk County, Ontario which has Bertha M. Brondi as a witness so definitely don't discount that death.
Now I am officially confused again. In checking the Canadian voters lists at Ancestry, there is a Frank and Bertha Brondi living in Brantford on the 1953 and 1957 voters lists. Is it possible Frank married another woman named Bertha?
Jacquie
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I talked to my father last night, Jacquie, and when I mentioned the name Brondi, he said, "Brondi? Frank Brondi?". Well, it seems I mentioned a name that he hadn't though of in years. It seems Bertha passed away sometime after 1957, yes, so who knows who that May Brondi who died in 1928 could be? My father said Bertha went by many, many names during her lifetime.
I really appreciate your help on this, Jacquie!
L.
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Wild hypothesis here. The 1928 death registration said the cause of death was a car accident. Maybe they thought Bertha was in the car, registered her death and then found out it was someone else later? :P
Would you be able to order microfilm for the Brantford Expositor from your local library? Since it was a car accident with an apparent fatality there could be a write-up to explain what happened. If not, the Brantford Library might look it up but they charge to do that.
Jacquie
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The Ontario Cemetery Finding Aid (OCFA) shows a Frank Brondi, MARY Brondi and Raymond Brondi all buried in Mt. Hope Brantford Cemetery.
Brantford Public Library has a genealogy section (fee involved) and an obituary or death notice exists for Frank in 1980. Raymond F. Brondi also died in 1980 - Raymond and his wife Hilda seemed to be living in the same household as Frank and his wife on at least one voters list.
Frank Brondi crossed the border in 1937 at Niagara Falls listed as married.
I would think that if a death registration had been entered in error that a correction would have been added at a later date?
Is your father sure that his grandmother died after 1957 or was he thinking of Frank's death date?
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I found the Attestaton papers for 2 sons of Bertha Quibell at
www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/index-e.html
under Soldiers of the First World War
Charles Edward Quibell
Regimental #763862
122nd Battalion
address on enlistment, South River, Ontario
b. July 15, 1899 Caddillac, USA
Next of Kin - Bertha Quibell, mother, South River, Ontario
enlisted March 1, 1917 at Galt, Ontario
Lewis Quibell, Regimental #724235
residence - Gooderham, Ontario
b. 3 January 1899, Michigan, USA
NOK - Mrs. Bertha Pearson
Portaville, Ontario
enlisted April 8, 1916, Gooderham, Ontario, age 17
second Attestation Papers for the same person using different forename
Lawrance Danamber Quibell, Regimental #1087312
residence - Lindsay, Ontario
b. 3 January 1899, Park Lake, Michigan
NOK - Bertha Quibell, South River, Ontario, Mother
he had spent 11 months in the 109th Battalion, Kingston and had been discharged for Heart trouble, re-enlisted April 7, 1917 Lindsay, Ontario
Interesting that his NOK in 1916 used surname Pearson and in 1917 using Quibell
I think it is entirely possible that the Bertha M. Brondi who was the witness at the wedding of Charles Quibell could in fact be his mother Bertha M. Quibell.
Perhaps when the 1921 census is available, some more questions may be answered.
It was not unusual for men enlisting to lie about their age as if considered too young or old they would be rejected. Also, women would tend to lie about their age as they grew older as well. Most would use the month and day of birth but the years would very greatly.
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Good morning
First off the birth date for Charles is wrong as the attestation papers indicate birth year is 1899
for Charles Edward and Lewis/Laurence. True it looks like Lewis lied about his age to sign up as one record indicates age 18 on one and 17 on the other.
Ran across the following for Charles Edward Quibell.
Family Tree-Ed Quibell's Family Tree Website-MyHeritage
www. heritage,com/site-family-tree..../ed-quibells-family-tree?....2.... Key in Charles Edward Quibell in on the top white box.
Looks like Charles was born in 1901.
Lilybell :) :) :) :)
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It would appear that Charles lied about his age as he is listed as 22 on his marriage in 1923 with Johanna and Bertha M Brondi as witnesses. So he would have been born in 1901 ? At age 16 he would have been too young to enlist.
From Norfolk, 1923
Charles Edwrd Quibell, 22, farmer, Michigan, Langton, s/o Alfred Quibell b. Burnt River and Bertha May Latimer, married Ethel Lavina Fitch, 19, Canada, Langton d/0 John Fitch b. Canada and Eliza Lucas. wtn: Johanna and Bertha M. Brondi of Langton, 13 Sept 1923 at Langton.
first address is where born, second where living according to the instructions at the sight.
Lewis/lawrence enlisted twice once in 1916 at age 17 and then in 1917 age 18. He used the same birth date and year so I am assuming that his birth year is correct. All he would have needed to enlist would be permission from one parent.
I wasn't able to find any Brondi's in Canada on the 1901 or 1911 census. There are no Quibell's in Langton and there is only one Brondi listed at Canada 411 (online directory) and that is in Hamilton.
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I did an internet search for "Charles Edward Quibell" and also for "Lawrence Quibell"
came up with a few interesting sites.
Kirkland Lake Cemetery
http://www.genat.org/cimetieres/photo.php?idPhoto=80020
Hopefully, the site works and you can view the gravestone.
Lawrence Quibell
Private, 253 Battn, CEF
d. 31 Dec 1964, age 63
wife - Margaret 1923-1985
found information at Gen Forum posted 2002
http://genforum.genealogy.com/quibell/messages/36.html
Charles Edward Quibell
b. 15 July 1900, Highland Township, Marion, Michigan
m. Ethel L. Finch
He was a homesteader, tobaccotier and a guide.
several children
http://www.myheritage.com/site-family-tree-75649081/ed-quibells-family-tree?
If this doesn't work trying entering it manually to see if the search engine will pick it up.
Some basic info
Alfred Quibel
1864-1913
Bertha May Latimer 1880 -?
children
Gladys, b. d. 1899
Lawrence Van Amber 1899-1964
Charles Edward 1901-1994
Thomas Alfred 1903- ?
Lillian 1907 - ?
Norman A. 1913 - ?
George Albert ?
Alfred Quibell
b. 1864 Highland Twsp, Osceola Co. Michigan
m Oct 2, 1894 Brant Co., Ont
Bertha May Latimer
also says widowed
death 1913, Lindsey
burial - Gooderham Cemtery
Bertha May Pearson
b. 23 Aug 1916
parents Michael Pearson and Bertha May Latimer
d. July 2009, Cambridge, Ont
doesn't have a marriage or children for her
Charles Edward Quibell
b. Jul 15, 1901, Highland Twsp, Michigan
m. Sept 1923
divorced
d. June 8, 1994, Timmons, Ont
Ethel died, 1964
children
John alfred 1920-1983
Mary Mona 1923 - ?
Alfred b. d. 1928
Ethel b. d. 1928
Laura Evelym 1933 - 1973
3 others not named
Lawrence Van Amer Quibell
m. Margaret Lilliam Dawley, she d. Mar 6 1985, Simcoe, Ont.
seven unnamed children
If you can find obituaries for some of the deaths listed you may get closer to finding what happened to the family members you are looking for.
At least there are others searching for information unless these are your posts and tree.
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Linda,
The following information from Kirkland Lake Cemetery contact.
Lawrence and Margaret both buried in Section 10 Range 3 Grave 26
Their records indicate that Lawrence's middle name is Van Amber
Lilybell
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Thank you ALL very much for this information. I've been away from the subject for a while, but I'm back on the trail again and will pursue all of these avenues. Sorry if I was remiss in my thanks before.
Lizzy
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Hello, OP here.
I have been working on Bertha and Rosana's story for a few years now, and I am a little closer to solving the mysteries. I took a genealogy trip to Ontario and Québec this summer, and this is what I've come up with.
Bertha Mae Levely Lattimer Quibell Pearson Brondi is buried in Mount Hope cemetery in Brantford, ON, or at least somebody called Mary Brondi is. It seems she died in an accident in 1928 in a car driven by Frank. This information was given to me by John Cardiff of Norfolk Genealogy. www.nornet.on.ca/~jcardiff
However, this doesn't clear up the mystery of my father's remembrances of Bertha in Brantford, nor the fact that she shows up in the Voters' Lists up until the 1950s. My father was born five years after Bertha died.
Frank later lived with a woman named Hattie Reid who left her husband to be with him. I think perhaps this woman assumed Bertha's identity, or something to that effect.
I visited the Mount Hope Cemetery and found Bertha's unmarked grave (and Frank and Hattie's very nice headstone) and I wasn't allowed to leave flowers (no maintenance fees were ever paid, dontcha know), so I deconstructed the roses I brought and sprinkled the petals.
Here ends Bertha's story.
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Bertha's death.
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Now Rosana.
It took me a while to figure out she was in the convent of the Sisters of the Good Shepherd (Sœurs de Notre-Dame de Charité du Bon-Pasteur). The convent was situated on rue Sherbrooke but was relinquished some time back. I contacted the remaining sisters, and the very kindly gave me the following information.
The day before our archives where moved to a storage facility, with the information you gave us about your great-great-grandmother, I looked up her name and surprisingly I found Rose Ann Lovely in the old registers.
From what I understand she was at the Monastère de Notre-Dame de Charité du Bon-Pasteur (104 Sherbrooke street E) from 1886 to 1896. According to the registers, she entered the convent at 24 years old on January 7th 1886 as a penitient, and passed away on April 25th or 27th, 1896 as a nun.
She is registered as Cécilia : Rose Ann Lovely, and on one of the registers it says, Cécilia des 7 Douleurs, consacrée, that would leed us to think she had decided to become a nun at some point. In an other register, I think I can read in one of the columns, Entrées volontairement 19 nov. 1888. That could mean that she then became a novice and entered the other section of the convent to start her religious studies.
In the death registry it's written, maladie : consomption, which meant in those days, great weakness or tuberculosis, that could explain her death at a young age.
I hope these documents will add information to your family history, even though we might never really know why she ended up in our Monastary at 24 years old. I'm sure that during the nine years she was there, she was well taken care of and I hope that she found, within those walls, some peace of mind and security.
Attached you will find copies of, class registers, death registers and some photos of the monastary in those days. Sorry for the poor quality of the documents, I made quick photocopies before the move to make sure you had the information.
Thank you for caring for a distant relative.
I believe that Rosan arrived in Montréal between 1881 and 1886. The sisters were in charge of the rehabilitation of transgressive women, so she probably got into some trouble with the law. It seems she was reformed, however, and converted and started on a holy life. I guess not many people can claim an (almost) nun as a great-grandmother.
I like to think she is in this photo somewhere. The timeline is right.
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Hi your best bet is to get intouch with my Uncle Larry he does all the levely family genealogy and I could guarantee you he will help you answer all your questions. I myself am a levely.
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Thanks, Kateelev, I've sent you a PM.
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Hello Kateelev and a warm welcome to RootsChat :).
You need to make 3 postings before you can access the PM (private message) system and LizzieFaire's message. Just say "Hi" a couple of times.
PB
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I'm wondering if you're still trying to sort out Frank F. Brondi. I am doing research for a friend and Frank comes up in my searches. You mentioned Hattie Reid living with Frank.
She was in fact born Harriet Albertha Reid (1890)
She had been married to Charles Arthur Bonney and I think that is the husband she left. He died in 1952.
I think Raymond F. Brondi born in 1931 was the son of Frank Brondi and Hattie. She was sometimes known as Hattie, Fannie or Bertha. According to findagrave.com at her death in 1962 in Brantford, Ontario she is noted as Harriet Albert Reid Brondi.
Hope this explains who the second 'Bertha' is.