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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Bobi.com on Monday 03 June 13 12:02 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me with any info about George who married Harriett Maria nee Gardiner 1864 at Waterloo Church, London.
Any information at all would be appreciated.
:)
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Just to save any possible duplication of research, are you already aware of this thread on another forum?
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LONDON/2013-04/1366229434
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Do you have the M/C to Harriett or his NZ Death Cert?
Trish :)
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Nothing on-line I can find for the Marriage.
1871 Census George ( a Baker) is born c 1849 Lambeth, Surrey.
Nearest I can find in 1861 is a George born Lambeth c 1848 with Parents George (1824) and Catherine (1823). George is a Tailor.
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Nothing on-line I can find for the Marriage.
It's under George Harriss INGLE -- see reply #1 ;)
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Married as George Harris INGLE to Harriett Maria GARDINER
Fathers THOMAS Ingle, Occp Painter, EDWARD Gardiner, Occp General Dealer
St Johns Church, Parish of St Johns Waterloo, 13 June 1864
Witnesses, Edward and Sarah Ann Gardiner
EDIT, thanks didnt read it all :-[
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Hi
Found the marriage -eventually at Lambeth St John the evangelist 13.6.1864
George Harris Ingle minor bachelor baker New Cut s of Thomas Harris Ingle painter
Harriet Maria Gardiner minor d of Edward Gardiner general dealer
All made cross with Edward Gardiner and Sarah Ann Gardiner
So it seems the name to look for is Ingle.
Ciderdrinker
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1861 Census has a Geo Ingle age 13, errand boy to a Pastry Cook in Newington, Surrey.
RG9/336/39/31
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Do you have the M/C to Harriett or his NZ Death Cert?
Trish :)
Hi Trish
Yes, George Snr died 27/1/1920 in NZ. :)
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Hi
Found the marriage -eventually at Lambeth St John the evangelist 13.6.1864
George Harris Ingle minor bachelor baker New Cut s of Thomas Harris Ingle painter
Harriet Maria Gardiner minor d of Edward Gardiner general dealer
All made cross with Edward Gardiner and Sarah Ann Gardiner
So it seems the name to look for is Ingle.
Ciderdrinker
Hi Ciderdrinker Thank you.
Are you able to send me a link for this info?, as it does not make sense with what I have. Is there a possibility that it reads" Harris, Single Minor Bachelor". And as fas I am aware Georges Father's name is William.
George was definitely a baker and confectioner and continued his trade here in NZ. :)
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1861 - RG 9/336/33/20
3 Gardner Place, Newington
Thos INGLE, head mar 55, Painter & glazier, born Lambeth
Marian INGLE, wife mar 40, Needlewoman, born St Dunstans East
Clara INGLE, dau 11, born Christchurch, Surrey
Arthur INGLE, son 6, born Newington
Edwin INGLE, son 3, born ditto
Henry INGLE, son 7??, born ditto
Mary Ann INGLE is a widow in 1871, with two youngest sons with her in St George the Martyr, Southwark.
Ian C
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Hi all, young Henry looks to have been born Dec qtr 1860 Newington 1d 170, when he marries a Lucy Curran at St Thomas's Bethnal Green, he states his Father is a Thomas George Ingle occ Painter
Keyboard86
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Hi All
Thanks for everyone's efforts.
Its George Thomas Harris and his forebears and siblings I am looking for. (father William)
It appears MY George was married to a MARGARET MABEL ? (no other info on her)
Maybe the George married to Harriett was an uncle ?? as there is reference to a George Snr and Jnr???
::)
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1861 - RG 9/336/33/20
3 Gardner Place, Newington
Thos INGLE, head mar 55, Painter & glazier, born Lambeth
Marian INGLE, wife mar 40, Needlewoman, born St Dunstans East
Clara INGLE, dau 11, born Christchurch, Surrey
Arthur INGLE, son 6, born Newington
Edwin INGLE, son 3, born ditto
Henry INGLE, son 7??, born ditto
Mary Ann INGLE is a widow in 1871, with two youngest sons with her in St George the Martyr, Southwark.
Ian C
Hi can you divulge why you believe his wife was a Margaret Mabel possibly, as their was this interesting family in 1851 as a possible match with the one above?
1851 Census
Mary Ann Harris 32 Married occ Needlework b London City
William 9 b St Saviours, Surrey
Sarah 5 b St Saviours, Surrey
GEORGE 2 b Lambeth
Ellen 1 b Christchurch, Surrey
Henry Ingle 45 occ Printer/Visitor b Lambeth
Sarah Thompson 40 Widow/ Visitor b Christchurch, Surrey
George Wiltson 50 occ Printer/Visitor b Ireland
Residing at 17, Hatfield Place, Christchurch, Southwark, Surrey
Census Ref HO107/1557/112/41
Keyboard86
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Hi Keyboard86
My Grandfather was FREDERICK ARTHUR HARRIS b1907 Woodville,NZ. His parents were ......
George Thomas Harris b?????? d 27/1/1920 Rona Bay,Wellington,NZ and
Margaret Mabel ?????
This information is according to NZBDM. :-\
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MARRIAGES.
HARRIS— GARDINER.— On the 13th June, 1864. at Waterloo Church, London, George Thomas Harris, third son of the late William Harris, London, to Harriett Maria, second daughter of the late Edward George Gardiner, London. (Golden wedding).
DRUMMOND— HARRIS.— On the 13th June, 1914, at the Presbyterian Church, Rona Bay,Wellington,NZ Charles Drtunmond to Mabel Winifred, youngest daughter of G. T. Harris, senior.
This notice was in The Evening Post 17th June 1914 the local Wellington newspaper.
Does anyone think this may be the "Ingle" mentioned above????
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I think you might be missing a generation, which is probably where the Snr and Jnr come in
George Thomas HARRIS/INGLE (Snr) 1848-1920 married Harriet GARDINER in 1864. One of their sons George Thomas HARRIS (Jnr) born St Saviour Dec qtr 1871, married Mabel Margaret SMITH in 1890 in NZ, probably Wellington, although on the NZBDM site she is Margaret Mabel with the birth of the children. So George Thomas and Harriet would be your grandfather Frederick Arthur's grandparents, not parents.
About Harris, George Thomas
Evening Post, 14 September 1886, Page 2
The following appear in Lloyd's Weekly, under the heading "Long Lost Relatives" : —
George Thomas Harris left England in 1879, and is believed to have gone to New Zealand as a baker and confectioner. His aged widowed mother will be glad to hear from him.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Tuapeka Times, 29 April 1896, Page 6
The following intimations as to missing friends are from Lloyd's Weekly' of March 1 and 8 :—
George Harris, when last heard of, seven years ago, was in business as a confectioner in Wellington ; sister A. F. Ingle inquires.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
George came to NZ in early 1879 - His wife and 6 children arrived approx 6 months later on the boat " The Arethusa "
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
1892 @ Ebor st, Wellington = Baker
Ian C
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George and Harriet had in Southwark
Harriet Jane 1866-1929 married George SAKER
George Thomas 1871-?? married Mabel Margaret SMITH
Lucy Mary 1874-1958 married Thomas BRENNAN
Henry James (Harry) 1875-1944
Charles 1877
Sarah 1878
Then these born in NZ
Albert Arthur 1881 Wellington
Martha Matilda 1883 Wellington
Kate Ann Alice 1885 Wellington
William Stevenson 1887 Wellington
Ellen Annie 1889 Wellington
Mabel Winifred 1891 Wellington married Charles DRUMMOND
Ian C
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Ian c you are brilliant. I had so much of this info about George and Harriett and "some" of their children but didnt know how to place it. Thank you so much. :)
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1871 - RG10/611/59/15
67 Sun?? St, St Mary Newington
George HARRIS, head mar 22, Baker, born Surrey, Lambeth
Harriett HARRIS, wife mar 22, Brush drawer, born Surrey, Southwark
Harriett HARRIS, dau 4, born ditto
Ian C
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Shipping list for Harriet and the kids
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ue7/
Ian C
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Good Morning,Ciderdrinker here.
Sorry not to get back to you.The 1864 marriage at St' John's for George Thomas Harris and Harriet Gardiner is on Ancestry.It does say he's a baker but both George Harriss and Thomas his father do have Ingle at the end of their name-on the line below.
I do think Keyboard 86 is right and George's stepfather may be Thomas Ingle painter ,not his actual biological father.And there is that sister A.F. Ingle mentioned in the newspaper.
Will have a dig around.
Ciderdrinker
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Thank you this is marvellous
:)
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Hi again, if the Mary Ann on 1851/61 is the correct mother of George, would still like to know which Harris, she was married to and when, also I at present cannot locate an A F Ingle's?
Keyboard86
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MARRIAGES.
HARRIS— GARDINER.— On the 13th June, 1864. at Waterloo Church, London, George Thomas Harris, third son of the late William Harris, London, to Harriett Maria, second daughter of the late Edward George Gardiner, London. (Golden wedding).
This notice was in the EVENING POST 14/6/1914.
(3rd son of William Harris)
Does this help?
:)
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Hi there
Looking at the marriages fora William Harris to a Mary Ann at the right time there are quite a few.
Really i think you are going to have to buy George's birth certificate t o get his mother's maiden name.
The obvious GRO reference is
George Thomas Harris Dec 1848 Lambeth 4 312
You could also check Arthur Frederick Ingle's birth Newington Sep 1855 1d 148 and the mother's maiden name should be the same.It looks like they got together between 1851 and 1855 but I'can't find a marriage.The nearest I can find is Henry Ingle Sep 1855 West London but there is a problem with the transcription on FreeBMD and can't check possible brides.
Thomas Ingle must have died between the 1861 and 1871 census and the only contender is Thomas Ingle age 67 Newington Sep 1867 1d 141
This cuts down the time for extra children and the only one possible i could find in Newington is Annie Sep 1861.So nowhere nearer to A.F.Ingle sister altough Arthur Frederick would fit the bill as a brother.
Thomas was married to a Jane in 1841 age 34 at New St perhaps they had a daughter A.F.
Ciderdrinker
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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/lost.htm
Contains two references;
George Thomas Harris left England in 1879, and is believed to have gone to New Zealand as a baker and confectioner. His aged widowed mother will be glad to hear from him.
George Harris, when last heard of, seven years ago, was in business as a confectioner in Wellington ; sister A. F. Ingle inquires
NZ DIA historicalrecords can be queried for births deaths and marriages, from which you can get more details.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/
1890/1408 Mabel Margaret Smith George Thomas Harris (marriage)
1947/25096 Harris Margaret Mabel 78Y (death)
1948/21897 Harris George Thomas 80Y (death)
George Thomas Harris (Jnr) married Margaret Mabel Smith daughter of John James Smith and Mary Margaret Murphy. I have further information on that side of the connection if you are interested. And some further too on George Thomas Harris, which can also be found in New Zealand papers past, (one article I recall has George Thomas Harris in Woodville in 1907).
My own connection being back to Frederick Augustus Smith the brother of Margaret Harris, and this is where my line of research has crossed with George Thomas Harris
:-)
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Hi timjonno
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Bobi.com who started this topic hasn't been online here at Rootschat since last November but should receive email notifications that we have posted and hopefully come back soon.
DAwn
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Just in case this helps anyone:
Mary Ann Hanson is my gg grandmother. She married Charles Harris. They had six children, including George Thomas Harris. She then married Thomas Robert Ingle, my gg grandfather. She had three more children with him. Their son Edwin Ingle is my great-grandfather.
This was all carefully researched by myself and two other related people, Tracey Ihaka O'Donoghue and Jewelz Simpson. My tree on Ancestry is public, karennewton211 . There is more information there.
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Welcome to Rootschat karennewton.
Hopefully you will get a reply from the original posted Bobi.com, but it may not happen as they havent been on Rootschat for a couple of years.
timjonno only made 1 reply in 2014 and hasnt been on here since.
Trish :)
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Hi, I have just joined this group due to finding this post, which was great news for me. George Thomas Harris (married to Harriet Gardener) was my great great grandfather. He emigrated to New Zealand in 1878, with Harriet and their 6 children (they had 6 more in NZ) following in 1879. One of their sons, George Thomas, my great grandfather, married Margaret Mabel Smith and they had 4 sons and 6 daughters. George junior was also a baker and lived mainly in Wellington, but also had a bakery in Woodville. His son William Charles was my Grandfather. George also had a son, George Thomas, my great uncle (and Godfather), and he also had a son George Thomas, so the name has lasted 4 generations so no wonder it has caused some confusion. I hope the original poster sees this as I would like to find out their relationship.
Regards
Ray Anderson, Dannevirke, New Zealand
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George Thomas Harris was my Great grandfather. His son, William Charles was my grandfather. George lived in Wellington, but was in Woodville for a brief period around 1907, where he had a bakery. I am new to this Family Tree business but am making some interestng discoveries and have quite a few photos of the Harris family which I will happily share if I can figure out how.