RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: Bobi.com on Wednesday 05 June 13 06:16 BST (UK)
-
Can anyone help with any info regarding John Milne b1841 or 1843 at Aberdeen, Scotland.
CHis occupation was "Miner".He came to New Zealand around 1860 and was a gold miner in Otago (Tuapeka) then onto Thames (Karaka and Waikawau mines) He married Mary Ann Jane Kelly in 1875. More than likely in Dunedin.
:)
-
Milne is a very common name in Aberdeen and the North East of Scotland. The only way you would be able to find his family here is by getting his parents' names from documentation in New Zealand. I don't know if New Zealand marriage or death certificates give parents' names, but if they do, your first task would be to find them. It would also be worth looking at the Papers Past website which gives access to old New Zealand newspapers and has a very good index. I have found obituaries there for Scots who emigrated which give useful family details.
-
Yes, I agree. John Milne is a common name, and without knowing who his parents were it's impossible to know which baptism of John Milne around that time would be the right one. He was born before official registration so there won't be a birth certificate, but he'd be in the 1851 census - if you knew his parents' names you could also find his entry in that.
Was he from Aberdeen itself, or Aberdeenshire?
Also, he may have used the Scottish naming pattern, so the names he gave his children could be a clue as to what he parents might have been named. If he did use it, his eldest son would have his father's first name and his second daughter would have his mother's first name - but not everyone used it so it's not reliable.
-
Hi Bobi.com,
GR2 is correct. More information about John would have to be found before he can be traced in Scotland.
I have looked on New Zealand's online BMD'S https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/home/
and I cannot find a marriage between John and Mary Ann Jane Kelly. I tried various permutations of Milne (Miln/Milnes/Mill etc) but cannot find a marriage to a female Kelly ???.
Where did your info regarding the marriage come from?
And do you know where and when John died?
I recently located a long lost ggg uncle to New Zealand and was able to confirm his identity by his death certificate (he was a bachelor) which had recorded both his parents names and his place of birth :D. So this might be a good place to start.
Looby
-
Family of John Milne and Mary Ann Jane KELLY
Husband: John Milne
Born: ? ??? ???? at:
Died: at:
Married: c. 1875 at:
Other Partners:
Wife: Mary Ann Jane KELLY
Born: 1842 at: Ruapuke Island
Died: ? ??? ???? at:
Father: John KELLY
Mother: ?????? (MAORI)
This is an entry on an ancestral site I found which lists him as marrying my GGGrandmother. He died at his family home at Waiokahi Creek in Thames NZ on the 29th of June 1896 aged 55years. He is buried at the Thames, Shortland St Cemetary (ID2402)
I cant seem to find any other details for him yet.
:)
-
I've had a look on that New Zealand BMD site and there is a John Milne died in the year 1896 age 55.
That is all the info that can be gleaned without ordering the document :-\. The certificate may have relevant information recorded on it (parents names etc), then again it might have nothing depending on how much of John's background the person registering his death knew.
Have you looked to see if the cemetery where he is buried has had it's gravestones photographed and put online? I have seen the headstone of my GGG uncle I referred to in an earlier post. If it is you may be fortunate enough to find more details that way.
You mentioned John arrived in 1860 approx. in New Zealand. How did you come by that date?
And have you tried looking for him on passenger lists? I know that lots are transcribed online (not that I've had any success finding any of mine on them :( ).
There are several John Milne's on the 1851 Census in Aberdeenshire born 1841-1843, but it's impossible to tell which one is yours without more info.
Looby :D.
ps. Interestingly there is a Mary Anne Jane Kelly marries a John Rowe in 1860 on the NZ bmd's ??
Don't know where?
-
Hi Looby
Yes that is the same Mary Ann. She went on to marry John Milne in 1875.
My assumption of the time John Milne arrived here is due to the mining records I have. By 1861 he was gold mining in the Otage region then moved on to Thames where he and my GGGrandmother lived and had children together. After he died my GGGrandmother went to live with her daughter in Auckland until her death in 1915.
On the gravestone of JOHN it states he was a "Native" of Aberdeen, Scotland. ????
It appears they had seven children. The first, WILLIAM EDWARD JAMES MILNE died at 9 mths. Then WILLIAM BRUCE MILNE twin of Wilhemina Jessie Milne died at 8mths.
1874 William Edward James
1875 William Bruce and Wilhemina Jessie (Twins)
1878 Evelina May (My Great grandmother)
1880 Christina
1881 Alexander George James
1884 William Henry John
Judging by the childrens names I would say there is a good possibility that JOHN's father may have been WILLIAM??
At least that may be a lead??
:)
-
Hiya,
Yes I would agree William certainly was a name John wanted for his son and not unusually for Scots at that time if one child died the name was given to the next born. It's even been used in it's feminine form - Wilhemina . And I wouldn't be surprised if Jessie (a good Scots name ;D) was his mother's name!!
I'll browse about and see what I can come up with!
Meanwhile I do wonder about John's marriage to Mary Anne Jane Kelly/ Rowe ??? Did her first husband die?
Looby
-
Hi again Bobi.com,
I've had a little look at the 1851 Census on www.freecen.org.uk but it's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack. There are a few candidates for your John but nothing concrete to connect them together :(.
To progress with your search I think you really have to focus with John in New Zealand first.
You would need to order or arrange a look-up of (if that can be done in NZ) John Milne's death certificate and hope that there is something recorded on it which furthers your search. As I said already that would depend on the knowledge of the person registering his death.
Also you need to find his marriage to your GGGgrandmother and view the certificate. If parents names were recorded on NZ certificates back in 1875 this info would have been provided by John himself and therefore you would hope it was correct ::)
Unfortunately these two things will incur a fee :(. But without more accurate info you would never be sure you were following the correct line in Aberdeenshire.
Even a date of birth would be a great help.
So, of course it's up to you whether you wish to pursue this.
If you wish further help once you have a little more to go on I will be only to willing to help find the family here in Scotland (as will other Rootschatters!!).
Good luck with your research,
Looby :D
-
Thank you yes I am looking into that as we speak.
John ROWE died in 1869 at the age of 30 years. He and Mary Ann had 5 chidren, 3 died in their first year, one at 39yrs and the last at 70yrs.
Your help is much appreciated. :)
-
Did John live at Long Beach in New Zealand? And could he have been an Agricultural Overseer at the time of his death?
Found this probate on Family Search https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KDT3-QTW
It mentions his eldest son as James.
John's eldest surviving son was Alexander George James. ???
Maybe it's a different John Milne?
I'll look out for any more info you post ;)
Regards Looby
ps. After midnight here ....going to bed!
-
Hi Looby
Sorry I typed the date of John and Marian's marriage date wrong, they married in 1895 according to NZ BDM. She registered herself as ROWE nee Kelly.
The "Longbeach" John is not my one.
:)
-
Hi Bobi.com,
Great that you've established the marriage between Mary Ann ( or Marian, as it's transcribed on the BMD site) Rowe/ Kelly and John Milne. Poor souls only married a year before John's death then?
Have you ordered a transcription of this marriage? With a bit of luck that would give you John's parents names and therefore a route back to Scotland.
It's interesting the couple only married after many years together and several children together - although I believe ' living together without benefit of a certificate' , as my late granny would have put it was a lot more common than my granny's generation would have believed! ;D
Could it be that John was already married and his wife still alive ? Certainly Mary Ann was free to marry after Rowe's death in 1869 ??? . Wonder what held them back till they were both in their 50's?
Looby :)
Oh and sorry that the probate was not related. I realised the location was on the wrong island but thought I'd mention it anyway. Cos with family history....you never know!!
-
Hi Bobi, I really hope you are still active somewhere....our paths cross again. My G Grandfather was your GG Grandmother's younger brother William Henry John Milne (B 1884)
My tree includes
John Milne B July 26 1842 D Mar 11 1883 who married Mereana Heni or Mary Anne Jane or Marian Milne (born Kelly) B circa 1842 D Jan 23 1915
WHJ Milne B1884 D1937
Allan Westbrook Milne B1913 D1977 (when I was 8 years old)
Graham Allan Milne B1946
Tony Roy Milne B1969 (me)
As I mentioned in my earlier post my Ngai Tahu heritage comes from Mereana Heni (daughter of Mary hine Pikihau Kelly (nee here) who is the sister of Bloody Jack (who signed the Treaty of Waitangi as paramount chief of Ngai Tahu in 1840 aka John or Hone Tuhawaiki aka John Touwaick) and John Kelly
-
John Milne of Aberdeen is my GG Grandfather born in Fyvie, Aberdeenshire (although I have a recollection that he may have been from Fyvie but may in fact have been born in Undy - not sure where that memory comes from though)
B July 26 1842
D Mar 11 1883
His parents were
John Milne and Jessie (nee Sim)
Hope that helps