RootsChat.Com

Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: diddymiller on Wednesday 05 June 13 20:54 BST (UK)

Title: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Wednesday 05 June 13 20:54 BST (UK)
John Hogg 6/9/1763 kelso was born to John Hogg & Catheren kamplman (spelling as SP)

I cant find anything else on this couple using alternative spellings etc. Please can anyone help?

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Friday 25 October 13 14:25 BST (UK)
Having another look at this couple.

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Saturday 07 June 14 13:14 BST (UK)
still hoping someone can help..

Diddy  :-[
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: barbara13511 on Monday 09 June 14 17:43 BST (UK)
Diddy, we are not ignoring you but have had a look and not finding anything at all.  Unusual name for the lady - sounds almost Jewish?  But they didn't have any other children anywhere in Scotland that I can find.  Do you know what happened to the son?

Barbara
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: Craclyn on Monday 09 June 14 18:11 BST (UK)
No luck looking for any Kamplman records other than the marriage and birth you listed. How about Kampermann, Kampman or even Campion? Have you tried any of these?
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: queenwillow on Monday 09 June 14 18:26 BST (UK)
Wandering around Anc***** I found an Adam Kampfman with Kamplman written underneath
Wrong country (USA)
Wrong era (1920's)
but not sure if you'd tried this variation
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Monday 09 June 14 21:44 BST (UK)
hi folks, thanks. I have tried all sorts of variations on SP & elsewhere.

John Hogg their son is my 4x G Grandfather. bap 1763 record on family search:
child: John Hogg
Gender Male
Christening Date 15 Sep 1763
Christening Place, KELSO, ROXBURGH, SCOTLAND
Birth Date 06 Sep 1763
Father's Name John Hogg
Mother's Name Catheren Kamplman
Indexing Project (Batch) NumberC11793-5
System Origin Scotland-VR
GS Film number1067946
Reference ID2:18CT0QP

also on SP
Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: Craclyn on Monday 09 June 14 22:04 BST (UK)
Have tried several sites and cannot find any Kamplman records except your Catheren and the Adam Kampfman/Kamplman mentioned by queenwillow. I think your only way forward for her is to explore more variations.
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: barbara13511 on Monday 09 June 14 22:48 BST (UK)
Certainly not a Border name, tho Hogg is.  What happened to John born 1763, did he stay in the area and if so who did he  marry?

Barbara
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 10 June 14 08:33 BST (UK)
Hi Barbara, I am ok going forward.

John 1763, a gardener, married Janet Williamson 1795 in Kelso. they had 4 children whilst moving around the borders through Mertoun, Berwickshire to Newcastle. arrived and stayed here sometime 1803 -1815. here Adam Hogg & my ancestor James Hogg 1801 ran Hoggs nursery in what is now the centre of Newcastle! lots of entries for horticultural prizes in historical newspapers.

I least I know where my green fingers come from  ;D

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: barbara13511 on Tuesday 10 June 14 10:04 BST (UK)
I just thought it might have been worth looking for clues if they had stayed in Scotland like brothers or sisters being witnesses at christenings. I take it you have all their children's records.  Was John always a gardener and was his father? It is interesting how this name does not come up anywhere in Scotland.  I help at the Borders Family History Archives so will have a look when possible but we are in the middle of flitting to new premises so most things are in boxes.
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 10 June 14 18:58 BST (UK)
I found a James Hogg died 1799 Kelso - don't know whether he is brother to my James 1801 Kelso

on Adams bapt 1803 Mertoun is says father  John Hogg of Bemersyde - wonder whether he was THE gardener at Bemersyde House / gardens. maybe there would be some records of that? there is certainly no rush though so thanks for the offer.

Robert Hogg 1815 the next child ( I can't find any inbetween) was chr Castle Garth Presbyterian-Nc, Newcastle Upon Tyne

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 10 June 14 19:43 BST (UK)
just found another child!

Thomas Hogg 8/7/1805 Mertoun  father John Hogg of Bemersyde

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: barbara13511 on Tuesday 10 June 14 20:34 BST (UK)
Great!  How do the naming patterns look for the names of John and Catherine?

Barbara
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Wednesday 11 June 14 17:14 BST (UK)
 :-[ had thought of that but only match so far John & Janets children is 2nd son - mothers father.

only have 1 child (son John) for john & Catherine - which does match - fathers father prob John Hogg = Agnes Middlemost

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: Sunlaws on Sunday 29 June 14 19:01 BST (UK)
Hi

There are a fair number of people in North Yorkshire with the surname CAPPELMAN (and variants).

Regards,
Lesley
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Monday 30 June 14 08:28 BST (UK)
ah thanks Lesley - I will look into that. if I can find their marriage I might get somewhere!

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: suek2075 on Tuesday 08 September 15 15:54 BST (UK)
Not sure if this has been covered already - findmypast has two Cathrin Kampmans born 1748 in Durham  -different fathers - possibly brothers naming daughter after mother. Might fit in with Newcastle.
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 08 September 15 16:57 BST (UK)
I wonder  ??? ???

Swiss birth 1762

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FV84-J9G

Annie

ADDED..........Mother's maiden name not shown  ::)

EDIT.........Discounted below
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 08 September 15 17:08 BST (UK)
Sorry Folks...........

Forget my Swiss post as this looks to be the couple here...........

Male Hogg death 1797 with father Joannis Hogg & mother as Catharina Brun

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FVVR-F54

Annie
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 08 September 15 19:03 BST (UK)
Suek - thank you, I haven't looked for a while but as more & more records are added everywhere we should all check back on our 'problems' now & then.

will check it out on FindMyPast.

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 08 September 15 19:18 BST (UK)
not finding those on FindMyPast using variations??

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: suek2075 on Tuesday 08 September 15 19:28 BST (UK)
I just did a search in births for Cathrin Kamp* - this time I put in Durham for birthplace and they both came up - Cathrin Elizabeth Kampmans and Cathrin Maria Kampmans. These are baptisms, not sure if I said birth in my last post.

Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 08 September 15 19:35 BST (UK)
this is definitely Find my past??

I can' bring those entries up at all using what you say.

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: suek2075 on Tuesday 08 September 15 19:40 BST (UK)
I've also found a marriage for a Katherine Kampelman to a John Hogg but in Middx in 1770 - don't think is relevant to your search, but thought I would mention it!

I'm having a job finding the baptisms now - but I've found them twice so I know they are there!!

Added - found them. Just firstname = Cathrin, lastname=Kamp*

Don't know why it sometimes doesn't show them - I cleared my search and re-entered it again and it worked  :-\
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 08 September 15 19:49 BST (UK)
thanks will keep trying.

My 4x GGrandfather born to John & Cathrin 1763 Kelso (SP source) so Middlesex one def not mine!

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 08 September 15 19:56 BST (UK)
got them thank you.

1746 really only likely one as John bap 1763. will try to find out more about this family.

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 08 September 15 20:00 BST (UK)
same couple had another daughter same name 1777... too late for mine.

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Tuesday 08 September 15 20:05 BST (UK)
..... however:

Cathrin Maria 3/3/1745 Escomb, Durham d/o Johann Henrich Kampmann...... fits

Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: suek2075 on Tuesday 08 September 15 20:10 BST (UK)
Oh good. Hope that will help you out! Good luck.

Sue
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: NeMor on Thursday 16 February 17 15:05 GMT (UK)
Hi. I've only just joined so hadn't seen these postings before. My interest in the Hogg family stems from the marriages of Mary Morton to William Hogg (Newcastle upon Tyne 1834) and Margaret Morton to Robert Hogg (Newcastle upon Tyne 1836). Mary and Margaret were sisters of my 2xgreat grandfather Henry Morton.
There seem to have been quite a few links between the families: in 1852 Mary's parents Alexander and Margaret Morton moved from Causey Park, NBL to live near their daughter in Westgate, Newcastle. Alexander was a gardener and Mary was born at Crailing, Roxburghshire - pretty close to the Hoggs in Kelso.
I've been trying to track down William and Robert Hogg. William was said to have been born in Gateshead around 1808 (acc to the 1861 census) and I have a possible birth for Robert in 1815 at Heworth (the eastern edge of Gateshead). I strongly suspect that William was the son of John Hogg and Janet Williamson (but can't prove it) and so the brother of the gardeners Adam and James.
I have William in the census returns for 1841-1861 before he dies in May 1861 in Newcastle. However, Robert seems to disappear, along with his wife Margaret, immediately after their marriage in 1836.
Has anyone else seen any possible birth for William or, indeed, seen any trace at all of Robert?
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 16 February 17 16:09 GMT (UK)

HI this is interesting.
Robert Hogg 15/6/1815 Newcastle was my 4th Great uncle through his brother James the gardener who owned Hoggs nursery in N/C. yes Robert married Margaret Morton - Marriage Fact: Witnesses: Henry Morton and Thomas Scott.
Single: 23 Oct 1836, St Andrew's, Newcastle upon Tyne.


Robert was indeed the son of John Hogg 1763 & Janet Williamson, but I know nothing about a William. I have siblings:
James 1797 Kelso -1799 Kelso
James 1801 Kelso  - abt 1868 N/C
Adam 1803 Mertoun - !876 N/C
Thomas 1805 Mertoun


I have found other Hoggs around so William may not be related but I will have a look around.


Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: NeMor on Thursday 16 February 17 17:15 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the quick response.

Just to add to the potential coincidences, James (the gardener) lived very close to William in 1861 (numbers 37 and 45 Edward Street respectively) and a couple of streets away in 1851 (Mansfield St and William Street). Another Hogg keeps cropping up in this area too: Nathaniel Hogg, who lived in William Street in both 1851 and 1861.

It would be quite a surprise if the 2 Morton sisters married completely unrelated Hoggs! But then, strange things do happen.
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 16 February 17 17:40 GMT (UK)

there is a gap of course between Thomas 1805 & Robert 1815 so I had wondered whether there were any others.


Diddy
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Thursday 16 February 17 17:59 GMT (UK)

ah ha -just checking my files I have Adam Hogg 1803 = his probate was granted to William Hogg of Dene House - this was Adams son born 1837 but could be William was a family name.


Off out soon but will  rummage around because of the big gap in siblings.


Diddy



Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: NeMor on Friday 17 February 17 16:54 GMT (UK)
Just discovered an interesting snippet: in 1830 Adam Hogg worked at the Gateshead nursery of William Falla - said to be the biggest plant nursery in the Country at the time. I found this whilst following up a hunch about Falla's Nursery and whether it had any significance for Alexander Morton, gardener (my 3xggf) or the Hogg brothers.
You can find the reference to Adam in "The Gardener's Magazine and Register of Rural & Domestic Improvement, Volume 6" for 1830 at this link:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PDZKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA631&lpg=PA631&dq=william+falla+nurseryman&source=bl&ots=P8pcHKDLpi&sig=ZfGUNl9pLWvC0D3cXXILsdvskcs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwioo8SJypfSAhXmKsAKHeAxAPY4FBDoAQgZMAA#v=onepage&q=william%20falla%20nurseryman&f=false

I wonder how many of the Hoggs were there and whether this explains why Adam's brother, Robert Hogg, was born at at Heworth.

I'll keep researching this hunch as it looks like it might be useful.
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: NeMor on Friday 17 February 17 17:07 GMT (UK)
Looks like James Hogg was there as well, in 1830 a receipt for payment to Falla's Nursery was signed on their behalf by James Hogg. 

http://www.rumbutter.net/cumb-res-edenhall-3b/1830-09-21-gateshead-nurserymans-account-receipt.html

This shows they were supplying the well-to-do in Cumberland, as well as the North-East.
Title: Re: Hogg = Kamplman Kelso
Post by: diddymiller on Friday 17 February 17 17:18 GMT (UK)

yes I have some newspaper articles about James, living cloth St, N/C telling of the plants he has for sale. Also one for Adam who won a silver medal in a competition whilst at Fallas.


Diddy