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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: PamSquam on Saturday 08 June 13 18:13 BST (UK)
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My great grandfather was Harry Sandall born 14/1/1897 in Rippingale, Lincolnshire.
Married my great Grandmother Sarah Ellen Edwards, dob not known yet but would have been about 1897 give or take a year or two. Also I have been told she was from Ysceifiog.
I have found a record for a marriage that matches in 1st qtr 1918 11b 247
I am trying to locate Sarah and her family and have drawn a blank so far so I am wondering if there are any clues to her parents with regards to the marriage.
Thank you in advance
Pam
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I'm confused,the marriage is given on BMD as a Sarah A Edwards to a Harry Sandall and also on North Wales BMD.The marriage is given at Mold St John.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi if the Sarah E is a Sarah A b Ysceifiog their is this family in 1901:-
Robert Edwards 23
Sarah E 27
Harriett J 5
Sarah A 3 b Ysceifiog
All others b Caerwys
Residing Alfonwen Terrace, Ysceifiog
Census ref RG13/5210/149/2
Keyboard86
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Hi if the Sarah E is a Sarah A b Ysceifiog there is this family in 1901:-
Robert Edwards 23
Sarah E 27
Harriett J 5
Sarah A 3 b Ysceifiog
All others b Caerwys
Residing Alfonwen Terrace, Ysceifiog
Census ref RG13/5210/149/2
Hi all need help, was it Sarah Ellen Roberts who married Robert Thomas Edwards? Also birth of Harriet J?
Keyboard86
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The GRO marriage index confirms her as Sarah A - not Sarah E.
A Sarah Ann Sandall born 25.10.1897 died in Clwyd 1994 aged 96 - is this your great grandmother's death?
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Sarah Ellen is probably Sarah Ann's mother.
1897 civil marriage(Holywell district) of Sarah Ellen Roberts to Robert Thomas Edwards.
Regards
Roger
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Hi again, if ie we have the correct family/marriage, is Harriett:-
Harriet Jane Roberts June qtr 1895 Holywell 11b 207
Baptism Harriet Jane Roberts 15th July 1895 Caerwys ( No parents named) Family Search
And 2 choices of Sarah Edwards:-
Sarah Ann Dec1897 Holywell
Sarah Ellen June 1898 Holywell
Baptism Sarah Anne Edwards 4th December 1897 St Michaels Caerwys Father Robert Mother Sarah abode Afonwen
Death Sarah Ellen Edwards Sept qtr 1898 Holywell 11b 157 aged 0
Burial Sarah Ellen Edwards 13th August 1898 Pontblyddyn aged 2 months
Keyboard86
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HI just to show that Harriet J was born prior to marriage:-
Baptism Harriet Jane Roberts 15th July 1895 Caerwys Mother Sarah Ellen abode Penygray? Caerwys
Keyboard86
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With the address of the Edwards family in 1901,I don't think much further proof is needed that it indeed Sarah Ann(e) Edwards that married Harry Sandall.We now just need the OP to confirm it!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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The 1918 Marriage was as follows:
21st March 1918 at St. John's Church Mold.
Harry Sandall age 21 Bachelor, Blacksmith (Residence: Lord Derby's War Hospital, Warrington) Father: Edward Sandwall, deceased, labourer.
Sarah Ann Edwards age 20 Spinster (Residence: 3 Price's Row, Mold) Father Robert Thomas Edwards, labourer.
Witness: Albert Uffuton[?] & Harriet Jane Edwards.
If you would like a copy, please PM me a valid email address.
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There appears to be a baptism in St. Michael, Caerwys. 4th December 1897, Sarah Ann[e] Edwards daughter of Robert & Sarah Edwards of Afonwen, labourer.
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There appears to be a baptism in St. Michael, Caerwys. 4th December 1897, Sarah Ann[e] Edwards daughter of Robert & Sarah Edwards of Afonwen, labourer.
:) Thanks for marriage, great relief!
Baptism Robert Thomas Edwards 20th October 1877 Caerwys Father Robert occ Labourer Mother Jane abode Pennant Square
Keyboard86
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The 1918 Marriage was as follows:
21st March 1918 at St. John's Church Mold.
Harry Sandall age 21 Bachelor, Blacksmith (Residence: Lord Derby's War Hospital, Warrington) Father: Edward Sandwall, deceased, labourer.
Sarah Ann Edwards age 20 Spinster (Residence: 3 Price's Row, Mold) Father Robert Thomas Edwards, labourer.
Witness: Albert Uffuton[?] & Harriet Jane Edwards.
If you would like a copy, please PM me a valid email address.
HI very confident now of correct couple!
1901 shows Harry with parents Edward b 1855 Rippingale and Francis b 1857 North Fen, Bourne with family on RG13/3024/81/7
Keyboard86
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Thank you so much for this, sorry for my delay in coming back.
My Nain (Sarah's daughter) got the name wrong and it is Sarah Ann. I think it is because Ellen is the middle name of her husbands mother and I have had to ask her about his family too as my grandfather is no longer with us.
I was really struggling to find her family so this is a great help, thank you so much.
I have arranged to go and visit my Nains (grandmother in welsh) eldest brother this afternoon as it sounds like he remembers more about the family.
I can't thank you enough for helping me with this.
Thank you
Pam
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Hi, sorry last reply was very quick as I felt bad that I hadn't been able to log on since posting the request.
Just out of interest and with regards to the witness on the marriage Albert Uffuton, I was speaking with my Nain and asked how her parents had met. She said that her dad was with his friend Bert and her mum was with her sister Nancy when they met them. Nancy married Bert and he was known as Uncle Bert so I am now wondering if this is the same gentleman. More for me to look into, but I will ask my Nains bother this afternoon if he remembers Berts surname.
I am a little confused about the address given for Harry Sandall on the marriage details, as I believe him and his friend Bert were in Leeswood Hall, Mold recovering after a shrapnel injury. Whether this came under the Warrington Address or not I don't know but I will ask later about that too. My nains memory on past things is a little thin and I am noticing some details changing during different conversations.
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I think it is possible that the witness name is Albert Upperton or similar.The writing is a little difficult but Upperton seems like a more likely name.
Regards
Roger
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Thank you, I was just asking my Nain and she couldn't remember but Harriet was known as Nancy which is another reason I couldn't find the family. I believe this is the Uncle Bert that Harriet married and then they moved to Sussex (I will double check this info) and had twin daughters. They moved up here during the war to live with Harry and Sarah.
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Hi a Harriet J Edwards married an Albert W Page Sept qtr 1918 Holywell 11b 287?
Keyboard86
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Hi their are twin daughters in 1919 East Preston Sussex Page/Edwards.
Keyboard86
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Colin has very kindly emailed me the copy of the marriage and I completely understand about not knowing what Alberts surname is, although Upperton looks rightish but it is strange that you have found Page and with twin daughters?
I will be going out in a bit to see my nains brother, am just writing down what I have so far (mainly from all of your on the Edwards thank you very much) and I will see what he has to say.
Am just printing out some old photos I have restored to show him in case he hasn't seen them before (I keep getting my Nain to sort out drawers and keep finding the odd photo) and I have a lovely photo of Harry which we belived was when he was at Leeswood Hall recovering from a shrapnel injury (his arm is in a sling too) and a fab photo of Sarah Ann Edwards with her mother who until today I didn't know her name! So thank you all so much :)
Any marriage details for Sarah Ellen Roberts and Robert Thomas Edwards would be fantastic while you are looking at the family would be gratefully appreciated or anything else :)
I will even take a drive up to Ysceifiog after my visit later as I have never been and I will go and have a look at where they came from.
Thank you all so much for this
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HI the marriage was:-
5th August 1918 Bistre, Mold
Albert Apperton Page aged 27 occ Labourer Father George (Deceased) occ Labourer
Residing Barpham, Arundel, Sussex
Harriet Jane Edwards aged 23 Father Robert Thomas (Deceased) occ Fitter
Residing 3, Price's Row, Mold
Keyboard86
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Hi thank you so much for this, I am literally going out now and I hope the attachment works. I haven't posted an image on here for a long time so I'm not 100% I am doing it right.
I have a big pad and pen ready to see my Nains brother (he is the 2nd oldest and all the family say to speak to him as he remembers a lot) I am hoping he has found some of his photos as I have my camera with me to photograph them too.
I can't tell you all enough how much I really appreciate your help with this, you have all been very kind and I wish I could return the favour. Although I know a lot of people on here do it but I am a bit of a dab hand at restoring old photos digitally so please let me know if you have any that need doing and I would be only too happy to help.
Pam
Oops I don't know what I did but the attachment wouldn't go so I will try again later when I get back
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Any marriage details for Sarah Ellen Roberts and Robert Thomas Edwards would be fantastic
Robert Thomas Edwards married Sarah Ellen Roberts in 1897 in Holywell, in a Civil marriage, so you would need to order their marriage certificate from either the GRO (March Qtr. Holywell Vol.11b page 291) or from the Superintendent Registrar, Flintshire Register Office, Llwynegrin Hall, Mold, Flintshire.
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There appears to be a baptism in St. Michael, Caerwys. 4th December 1897, Sarah Ann[e] Edwards daughter of Robert & Sarah Edwards of Afonwen, labourer.
:) Thanks for marriage, great relief!
Baptism Robert Thomas Edwards 20th October 1877 Caerwys Father Robert occ Labourer Mother Jane abode Pennant Square
Keyboard86
Hi the marriage of the parents of Robert Thomas Edwards was:-
19th May 1877 Parish Church Caerwys after Banns
Robert Edwards age full occ Labourer Father John occ Labourer
Jane Jones age full Father Robert occ Shoemaker
Witnesses John Davies Henry Jones
The family can be found in Pennant Square in 1881
I googled Lord Derby's War Hospital it was originally the Lancashire County Mental Hospital in Winwick Lancs, and was operating as a Mental Hospital from 1897 to 1915 their is a picture of it if you google as I did, not good on mobile with this cut/paste stuff!!
Sarah Ellen Roberts is a problem, ss their are 4 baptisms I can locate, but none in Caerwys.
Keyboard 86
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Hi again, is this Albert Apperton/Upperton Page?
1891 census:-
Ellen Page 22? Single b Burpham Sussex
Albert 4 months b East Preston Sussex
Residing East Preston Union Workhouse, Sussex
Census ref RG12/838/168/6
1901 Census
Pamela Upperton 65 Widow b Burpham
Ellen 39 Single b Burpham
Edith 13 Single Grandaughter b Southsea, Hants
Albert 10 Grandson b Preston, Sussex
Residing at Wepham, Burpham, Sussex
Census ref RG13/5337/24/20
Keyboard86
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Looking good, a Pamela Page married a George Upperton June qtr 1864 Worthing 2b 477
It looks like Ellen had an earlier child:-
1891 census
George Upperton 52 b Burpham
Pamela 55 b Burpham
Edith Page 3 Grandaughter b Portsmouth, Hants
Residing Street, Burpham, Arundel, Sussex
Census ref RG12/839/77/19
1871 census
George Upperton 31
Pamela 35
Ellen E Page 9
William Upperton 6
Albert Upperton 5
Residing Burpham
Census ref RG10/1110/97/10
To finish off the twin daughters were:-
Eleanor M Page 2b 594
Violet P Page 2b 595
Keyboard86
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Hi again, been a great task this, so these are the marriages of the twins:-
Violet P Upperton-Page to Joseph W Light March qtr 1942 Worthing 2b 931
Eleanor M Upperton-Page to Alfred P Moore March qtr 1943 Worthing 2b 805
Albert Page's christening was either the 15th or 18th January 1891 East Preston Parents Ellen Page
Keyboard86
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Wow!!! This is all fantastic!! Thank you so much!!
I spoke with my Great Uncle yesterday and went through lots of old photos he had which was fantastic. He even had a photo of Albert Upperton (pretty sure on this now) and Harriet Jane Edwards who were the witnesses on the original marriege of sandall and edwards.
I got lots of great stories out of him too which was lovely, so I now have the info he gave me, all the info that you lot have so very kindly found for me and as I photographed a lot of the photos my great uncle had I have them to sort out and some to repair too. I even went to Ysceifiog after seeing him for a nose as I have never been there and bumped into a lady who told me to get in touch with her if I need to see the church records!
I am absolutely chuffed to bits with all the help you have all given me and I am going to spend today going through it all properly and fitting it into the family tree.... I will probably be back very soon with more questions haha
Pam
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As ever frustrating, I can not find Sarah A Edwards on the 1911 census! I have searched for her, her father Robert Edwards and her mother Sarah E. I have them on the 1901 census and confirms everything you all gave me about her was right, after speaking to my great uncle yesterday he told me her father used to work at a cement mill in Ysceifiog and that is on that census so that was brilliant confirmation.
I am not sure if I have found Harriet in ysceifiog on the 1911 census as a servant elsewhere but no the others which is frustrating. My Great uncle told me yesterday that she also had two younger brothers called Jack and Fred so I was hoping to see them on it (presuming they were born by 1911) and obviously see where they went. The only trouble with looking for Fred and Jack is that harriet was handly known as Nancy so I have no idea if this was their real names.
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Hi Pam, good thread this!
Christening 13th March 1910 Frederick Llewelyn Edwards Caerwys Afonwen Father Robert occ Labourer Mother Sarah Ellen
Christening 28th May 1903 Robert John Edwards Caerwys Sportsmans Terrace ? Father Robert Thomas occ Labourer Mother Sarah Ellen
Keyboard86
PS Still looking for Edith Page, Albert's elder sister, looks to be birth on Freebmd:-
Edith Rowan Page Sept qtr 1887 Portsea 2b 501
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Thank you so much, I see the tradition of using a completely different name than the one they were christened with wasn't lost haha.
Just used their details to search the 1911 census and I can not see them at all, it is so frustrating.
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Thank you so much, I see the tradition of using a completely different name than the one they were christened with wasn't lost haha.
Just used their details to search the 1911 census and I can not see them at all, it is so frustrating.
Hi, Agree re Harriett, either very badly transcribed or missed?!
Albert and Ellen/Edith with Pamela are Upperton with a Walter C b c 1909 Burpham an Edith Upperton married a William Clark or Harry Talbot Sept qtr 1911 East Preston 2b 807
Birth Walter Charles Page Dec qtr 1908 E Preston 2b 311
Death Pamela Upperton March qtr 1929 E Preston 2b 765 aged 93
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Search using Christian name initials only
Regards
Roger
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Search using Christian name initials only
Regards
Roger
;D I'm going to follow you more often, great find!!
Keyboard86
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Thank you again :) I am in the middle of physically looking through each page of the census for 1911 and with a slow internet connection that is frustrating :D
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Hi looking at the births 1912 onwards it looks like an Edith Upperton married a Harry Talbot
Keyboard86