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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Skoosh on Sunday 16 June 13 07:18 BST (UK)
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Folks, any idea why there was a corn mill named Jinkabout near the mouth of the River Avon, Bo'ness, prop' the Duke of Hamilton, like nearby Kinneil, and another named Jinkabout, corn/paper mill, on the Water of Leith, Edinburgh, can't just be coincidence?
The first was the intended site for the Carron Iron Works but the land was strictly entailed and the developer could only obtain a 100 year lease, so the site on the Carron at Falkirk was chosen instead.
The Bo'ness mill has vanished completely under industrial use.
Any thoughts appreciated,
Skoosh.
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Gaelic origins discussed here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/55305687/Gaelic-Place-Names-of-the-Lothians
Imber
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I'm not so sure there is any connection between the two Jinkabout mills?
http://www.community-council.org.uk/Longstone/index.asp?pageid=56535
"By 1680 it was known as Redhall New Mill, and then it got the odd name of Jinkabout Mill – a name which also crops up in West Lothian. It was demolished in 1756 by George Inglis, the new laird of Redhall, so that he might form a great walled garden to be viewed from the grounds of his mansion across the river."
The Place Names of Stirlingshire
"....Jinkabout (Polmont). So. jink means, to dodge or quickly turn about, not found before Allan Ramsay, 1711 ;"
If you google (a lot in Google books) "jink about" or "jink-about" it's a term used - as in this verse:
http://www.electricscotland.com/poetry/10%20Hairst.pdf
or here:
http://shrinkalink.com/64821
"..Mark you, George, never jink about and duck when you hear the report of a cannon...."
If this is the term used for the Mill names, I haven't a clue why the term would be used - what imagery it is meant to conjure up - for a mill though ;
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks for that guys, I would just think it's from the Scots word jink, as in Jinky Johnstone of the 'tic.
I could see the possibility of duplication if it was the East Mill, Black Mill or the Red Mill ,but for two lairds, and mills were built by lairds at this time and their tenants forced to use and maintain them, to come up with the same unusual name, counties apart, stretches incredulity.
Millers moving from one mill to another didn't change the mill name any more than a tenant farmer changed the farm's name to something they fancied. Sir Walter Scott changed the name of his property when he built Abbotsford but he was Sir Walter and Clarty Hole was the name of the plot.
Skoosh.
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Hello Skoosh,
My GG Grandfather was recorded at the Jinkabout Mills, Bo'ness in the 1841 census. He was a 17 year old Apprentice Miller. The head of the house was Henry Wilson, 67 year old Farmer. There were 2 Agricultural Labourers, 4 Male Servants, 1 Female Servant and 1 Farm Servant recorded, but no other Millers.
Perhaps it was originally a Farm and a Mill was added later.
leighton
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The Caledonian Mercury 24 Oct 1849 has an advert for the sale of
"A Tack for above 300 years to run of the BARLEY-MILL on the Water of Colingtoun called Jinkabout Mill with the Mill-lands thereof".
The sale would take place in the Laigh Coffee House, Edinburgh
Wd this be one of the Jinkabout Mills referred to above?
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Could it be referring in some loose way to the routing of the mill lade?
Imber
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Leighton, many mills had farms attached, the miller would have an assistant, that would be your ancestor and Henry Wilson would be the farmer/miller. By 1841 the old system had broken down due largely to competition from large steam powered mills in nearby towns, abolition of mulctures which therefore gave tenants the freedom to choose their own miller, and widespread importing of flour. Many mills were purchased by the tenant from the estate and whereas the farm was formerly an adjunct to the mill, the reverse became the case and the mill, if it survived in use, switched to grinding animal feed etc' or oatmeal if there was still a market locally.
Milling was carried on in families, but Wilson's son, if he had one, maybe thought that by then the business wasn't worth his while.
In the 18th century a miller was a tacksman, he took a tack (lease) on the mill and took his cut of all the corn ground, mainly oats then but also pease & beans, which he took to market. His assistant had his wee cut also. This was much resented by the lairds tenants who were thirled to that mill, particularly as the miller also had the power to smash any hand querns found being used and compel forced labour re' the mill's upkeep.
hanes teulo, I think this refers to the mill on the Water of Leith, which runs through Colinton Dell. A very long lease offered? competition from huge mills in Leith itself so possibly specialising in pot-barley for soup, or beremeal, farm also attached.
Good stuff guys.
Interesting thought Imber, note the mill lade on Ambly's map at Colinton kirk, serves three mills.
Jinkabout used for both mills at the same time also!
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Skoosh,
Thanks for the clarification
Sales advertised
1755 - "Barley Mill of Reidhall, called Jinkabout Mill, and houses thereto, 2 miles to the West of Edinburgh
1790 - "the LANDS and MILLS of JINKABOUT, viz. a Flour and CORN MILL and 2 Barley Mills....most of the 30 acres in Kerse .... 2 miles from Grangemouth, 3 from Bo'ness .... mills within 300 yards of the River Avon"
If the Redhall/Riedhall mill was demolished 1756, did the mills at Bo'ness come into existence after this date?
Have also seen an 1838 reference to "Jinkabout Ford, in the County of Stirling"
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HT, the Reidhall Mill must have been rebuilt, still on the go in 1849.
Jinkabout on the Avon was mentioned early 1700, possibly in existance long before. Jinkabout ford refers to the one over the Avon.
On 12 June 1798 William Meek, miller, tenant of Jinkabout Mills, Bo'ness & his son William, wrote to Glasgow Town Council offering to take on the run-down Subdean Mill on the Molendinar Burn for 19 years @ £100 rental plus 7% of the repairs yearly, providing the magistrates spent £600 on repairs. Foolishly they turned Mr Meek down and the mill was rouped for 9 years @ £15 a year rent for the unimproved mill.
Skoosh.
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can't just be coincidence?
Why not? Many other place names are duplicated - Edinburgh, Inkerman, Slateford, Laggan, Dundee, Bogside, Clova .... the list could go on for pages.
It's perfectly credible that the same name arose independently in two different places.
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Of course you could, Bogside speaks for itself, Laggan, wet hollow, loads of them, Edinburgh & Dundee?? But a very strange name like Jinkabout with no obvious meaning and specifically relating to two mills and nowhere else, and not very far apart, is curious and merits an explanation.
I'm unlikely to get one however but you never can tell. Hence the post.
Skoosh.
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The bridge on the Avon is called Jinkabout Bridge, and previous to that there was Jinkabout Ford.
Perhaps these names pre-date the mills and describe the way that the road has to take a dogleg to get across the ford. If that was the case, it is easier to imagine the name arising twice.
It's a theory, anyway.
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Sounds possible Mike. My local roundabout could be called a Jinkabout, judging by the antics ;D
Skoosh.
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Sir John Milne (Gaelic Place Names of the Lothians c1912) claims that Jinkabout is a derivation of of Dun a'buth (Knoll of the hut). Make what you will of that.
Mike
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Doon a Boo, Mike, or Doon a Voo (Dun a'Buth), interesting discovery, pity these Lothian Gaels that knew this are a deid.
I prefer the dog-leg ford theory and can think of one on the Spey where you cross the river on a chevron of gravel when the river is low, changing course to downstream midway. Not exactly dry-shod, but across.
Thanks for that a bhalaich.
Skoosh.
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Jinkabout Mill, Bo'ness location is shown on this map.http://maps.nls.uk/view/74963114
It is some distance from the mouth of the Avon as stated. It probably milled for The Duke of Hamilton estate as well as local farmers. The carse was well known for growing grain with vast fields recorded to the west and north of this location. In competition was the mill south of the wall near Westquarter to the West of this location. That mill was owned by the Earl of Zetland's Kerse Estate.
RCAHMS website states: Archaeological Notes
NS97NW 84 9474 7975
'A large building two storeys high used as a corn mill having two large wheels propelled by water. Close to the mill is the dwelling house with offices attached, all in good repair; there is a vegetable garden and small farm attached. The whole is in the occupation of John Henderson and the property of the Duke of Hamilton.'
OS Name Book (Linlithgowshire), 1856.
Falkirk Collections has an image of part of the site:
http://collections.falkirk.gov.uk/search.do;jsessionid=EC13980B3E18FCC6371B79CEB420F78E?id=178344&db=object&view=detail
This record also appears on another thread;
William Meek, probably the son of William Meek & Janet Weir, born June 19, 1784 in Jinkabout Mills, Bo'Ness Parish, Linlithgowshire, married Margaret Angus, date and place unknown. They emigrated to Quebec about 1820. His brothers, John and Thomas, also came to Quebec initially but later moved on. I would appreciate learning more about them and their ancestors in Scotland.
At one time the area was a choice for the establishment of the world famous Carron Iron Works but the lack of suitable water supply and road, river and rail access saw it discarded.
Happy hunting.
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At one time the area was a choice for the establishment of the world famous Carron Iron Works but the lack of suitable water supply and road, river and rail access saw it discarded.
I very much doubt that rail access played any part in siting the Carron Iron Works. The iron works at Carron were founded in 1759, and the railways were built in the 19th century; the great railway boom was in the 1840s.
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Quite correct. Slip of the brain. In addition the feu on the land was only 99 years and the Stenhouse land was freehold so the works were built at Carron......doesn't change the outcome ......well spotted though. Any genealogy info?
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Just that my several-greats-grandfather Robert Hogg is said to have come from the Borders to work at Carron when it started up, but I have yet to find any documentary evidence to support that.
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A CHRONOLOGICAL INDEXof the most remarkable EVENTS AND PERSONS, recorded in ANCIENT AND MODERN HISTORY with their dates, arranged in an alphabetical order
By John Burn, Teacher of English, Glasgow 1786
Sandwiched between "Caracci, Ital. painter, died 1609, aged 49" and "Carstres, William. prin.coll Edin, died 1715" is the entry
"CARRON - iron manufacture, began 1760"
Wonder when my local steelworks is going to make the list!!
Skoosh - have found a reference to Jinkabout Mill in "State of the process of the division of the common muirs or commonries of Reddingrig and Whitesiderig. Lying in the Shire of Stirling" published 1763
Doesn't answer you original question but might be of interest (have sent PM)
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Thanks for this stuff Portonian & Hanes. This Meek/Weir combo could be related?
There were of course railways connected to industry in Scotland before the introduction of steam power. The Battle of Prestonpans was fought across just such a horse-drawn railway.
Burns was unimpressed by his visit to Carron ironworks, from memory,
We camnae here tae view your works that we would be mair wise, but only if we gang tae hell it micht be nae surprise! :)
Will answer by PM Hanes.
Skoosh.
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The Water of Leith MIll was a Paper Mill - although this extract gives no reason as to why the name was chosen.
From the NLS
REID, John junior printer Edinburgh
Printing House Libberton's Wynd 1699-1719
The second laigh shop below Mary-King's Closs 1705
a little within the Head of Borthwick's Closs over against the Cross-Well on the South Side of the Street July 1712
In Pearson's Closs opposite to the Parliament Closs (a little above the Cross) 1714-20
Possibly a nephew of John Reid fl. 1680-1713. A prolific printer of last dying speeches, ballads and chapbooks. The imprint of A sermon by Mr James Rows 1715 adds after the address 'where are to be sold choice of little books and ballads'. Married Agnes Bowie, widow of John Currie, merchant, 6 September 1696. Started a paper-mill on the Water-of-Leith called Jinkabout 1714. His widow, Agnes Bowie, married Mr Samuel Arnot printer 8 August 1721. 'The printer hereof is removed from Liberton's Wynd, to a little within the Head of Borthwick's Closs, over against the Cross-Well on the South-side of the Street' The Scots Postman 3 July 1712. Plomer has muddied the waters as far as the two John Reids and Margaret Reid are concerned. Watson says that John Reid junior started business in 1699 (History of Printing p.18) but no book of his bearing that date has been found.
Aldis 1904; NLS Impr Ind; Chapbook Printers; Edin Marr; Watson; Waterston 1; Thomson
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There were of course railways connected to industry in Scotland before the introduction of steam power. The Battle of Prestonpans was fought across just such a horse-drawn railway.
There were indeed. But they were generally used for short distances within an industrial site, and there was certainly no network of such railways that could be used for importing or exporting materials for heavy industry from other parts of the country. Until the 1840s, bulk transport was mainly by canal.
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There was a horse-drawn railway taking coal from the Monklands to Kirkintilloch and the line occupied subsequently by the steam powered Glasgow to Garnkirk Railway was first opened as a horse-drawn operation carrying Monklands coal into Glasgow avoiding the Monkland Canal monopoly & high prices.
Skoosh.
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There was a horse-drawn railway taking coal from the Monklands to Kirkintilloch and the line occupied subsequently by the steam powered Glasgow to Garnkirk Railway was first opened as a horse-drawn operation carrying Monklands coal into Glasgow avoiding the Monkland Canal monopoly & high prices.
The earliest part of the Monkland Canal dates from about 1770, after the foundation of the Carron Iron Works, and the Monkland and Kirkintilloch Railway dates from the 1820s. The Glasgow and Garnkirk Railway was opened in the 1830s.
I am not trying to deny the existence of railways, horse-drawn or otherwise, in Central Scotland before the 1840s, merely pointing out that the Carron Iron Works was founded before any of these railways, and therefore that rail access cannot have been a factor in the selection of the site for the Carron Iron Works.
The canals also postdate the Carron Iron Works; work did not start on the Forth and Clyde Canal until 1768, the Monkland Canal was completed in 1790 or so, and the Union Canal opened in 1822.
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I'm not referring to Carron in particular which had its own railway system dating from 1760. Nobody knew that steam power would transform land transport and in the meantime coal, iron, lime, bricks, etc' had to be moved where they were needed. The roads were competely unfit for this purpose and horse drawn mineral lines were the solution to this problem. The first horse-drawn passenger line was Kilmarnock to Troon, 1812.
Stephenson himself was an expert on horse-drawn railways, which in England dated back to the mid 1600's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garnkirk_and_Glasgow_Railway
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Portonian , although not related to this thread, I have news bearing your family tree on My Heritage! I was notified today of you confirming a match between your tree a year ago (no idea why it told me today!) and mine concerning Anna E Sharkey, wife of Hugh Sharkey who are my Great Great Grandparents. Finding your email on that site is a premium service and I was not prepared to pay for this service since I use ancestry more for my family tree now. Also I am inexperienced with this site; and so I am unaware if how to send a personal message, if possible. So the point of this longwinded message so to see if we can make contact and exchange what we know about each others trees! Looking forward to your reply, doddle37
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Doddle, you have to make a few posts (3?) before you can use the PM facility. Just add your tuppensworth to any subject going pal.
Skoosh.
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Finding your email on MyHeritage is a premium service and I was not prepared to pay for this service
Everything on MyHeritage is a premium service. When I first put my tree there, you could contact others when a match was flagged up. Over time they have insidiously introduced charges for all the services that were initially free. I find this sneaky and underhand and like you I refuse to pay.
Now, if you write a post agreeing with me and one thanking 'Skoosh' for his/her input, you will then be able to send a Personal Message to Portonian.
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Forfarian, I totally agree I started my family tree on there about two years ago but ceased to use for a while due to lack of success in my research. However, I resumed my research after some family members found some old documents that helped me. Alas, when I returned to my heritage, I found it too reliant on its premium services and swapped to ancestry, which I've found easier to use and which has some handy features.
Also, thanks skoosh for your input it has really helped me!
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Also, thanks skoosh for your input it has really helped me!
:D
Forfarian was trying to hint that if you made a separate post thanking Skoosh in addition to the reply to his own post this would bring you up to the 3 posts required to give you access to the messaging system here on Rootschat.
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Ah got you, I'll do that now!