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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: SpudJW on Tuesday 09 July 13 09:27 BST (UK)
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I'd be interested to know if anyone else is looking into the Carnie, Brand and Noble families in Newhaven and Leith. I'm following back from my grandmother, Emily Dores Carnie Brand, born 1903 in South Leith to James Marr Brand and Emily Dores Carnie. I'm especially curious to discover where the Dores element in the name comes from, since at the moment it hasn't come up anywhere in the tree.
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Hi SpudJW,
With a name like Carnie in Newhaven area, would expect some connection to fishing.
I have found a Mary Dores Carnie born to parents Liston Carnie and Isabella Dores on LDS site on 30 Mar 1860 at Leith.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQCN-FFK
There is an Emily Doves(sic) Carnie born on 10 Dec 1865 to parents John Carnie and Christina Noble.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQCN-RQT
Probably connected to your tree, would think Liston and John would be siblings, not proved as yet.
Tom
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Yes, Tom, fishermen all. Emily Dores Carnie - we can presume the Doves is a mistranscription - was my gran's mother.
Emily's father John Carnie had a son Liston, but he would only have been about 10 in 1860. John's father was also Liston, however, and in the 1841 census his wife Janet Mair or Muir is no longer in residence: I wonder if he married again, to Isabella Dores?
If Isabella's Liston were John's brother, would that be reason enough to include her surname in their daughter's name?
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Hi,
I don't know how far into your research you are but Newhaven was a very insular village and most people who lived there were related in some way or another so working out who's who is mind numbing. I have been working on the Newhaven branch of my tree for quite some time now and it gets more confusing every time I look at it.
I have your Emily Dores Carnie in my tree... I also have Isabella Dores (Carnie).......I haven't as yet made any connection between them but I will keep looking... I have James Brand's middle name as Moir (his mother's maiden name). Did you know that Emily's sister Helen married James' brother Robert ....
If you think I may be able to help you in any way please let me know and I will do my best.
Regards
Aileen
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should also have mentioned I do have another couple of Dores in my tree and will attempt to look for connections.
Isabella Dores did marry a Liston Carnie....but not the "right" one.
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http://www.johnlyle3.webspace.virginmedia.com/oldnewhaven/
You may find this of some interest if you haven't already seen it
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Sorry this hasn't worked too well
Kinship of Emily Dores Carnie
Name Relationship with Emily Carnie
Brand, Euphemia Sister-in-law
Brand, James Moir Husband
Brand, Mary Daughter
Brand, Robert Brother-in-law
Brother-in-law
Brand, Robert Marr Nephew
Nephew of the husband
Brand, William Father-in-law
Brand, William Brother-in-law
Carnie, Christina Niece
Carnie, Emily Dores Self
Carnie, Frances Ann 1st cousin
Carnie, Helen Niece
Carnie, Helen Durham Sister
Carnie, Hugh Muir Uncle
Carnie, James Uncle
Carnie, Janet Sister
Carnie, John Father
Carnie, John Brother
Carnie, John Nephew
Carnie, Liston Grandfather
Carnie, Margaret Henderson Aunt
Carnie, Mary Aunt
Carnie, Mary Niece
Carnie, May Brown Innes 1st cousin
Carnie, Robert Uncle
Carnie, Thomas Muir Uncle
Carnie, Thomas Muir Brother
Carnie, Thomas Muir Nephew
Carnie, Walter Nephew
Davidson, Ann 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, Catherine 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, Frances 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, Helen 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, Janet 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, John 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, Margaret 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, May 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, Robert Husband of the 1st cousin
Davidson, Robina 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, Thomas 1st cousin once removed
Davidson, William 1st cousin once removed
Drybrough, David 1st cousin once removed
Drybrough, John Husband of the 1st cousin
Durham, Helen Grandmother
Henderson, Christina Wife of the nephew
Moir, Mary Mother-in-law
Muir, Janet Grandmother
Noble, Alexander Grandfather
Noble, Christina Mother
Robertson, Elizabeth Brown Sister-in-law
Smith, Thomas Brother-in-law
Treverton, Charity Strout Wife of the uncle
Young, Catharine Riddell 1st cousin
Young, David 1st cousin
Young, James Husband of the aunt
Young, James 1st cousin
Young, Janet Mair 1st cousin
Young, Liston 1st cousin
Young, Mary 1st cousin
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I may be getting somewhere....although still trying to connect
I have an Amelia Dores married to a James Noble.....Amelia was known as Emily
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Thanks for all this, Aileen! I've got some more bits & bobs too, I'll post them as soon as I can. It is a terrible labyrinth of names around there: I remember when I was doing my first days of research at the Records Office I just gave up on this line in despair at ever sorting them all out!
Does this make sense to you?:
Amelia, also Emily, seems to have been called Bemellie Bell at her birth, her parents being Andrew Dors and Isabelle Liston - Isabelle, I think, remarried to a William Patterson in 1833. Before marrying James Noble, looking at the 1851 census, it seem Amelia might have had an illegitimate son to a Liston Carnie, since a boy of the same name is in residence, as "Grandson".
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Deleted as I made a mistake
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James Noble (who married Amelia Dores), parents were Alexander and Helen Noble ms Durham so James was Christina Noble's brother. Your Emily Dores Carnie was named after her aunt.
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I think that the grandson Liston Carnie mentioned on the census may have been Eliza Dores (Carnie)'s son. Unfortunately I can't be sure as I can't find any certification for Eliza as she married and died before 1855
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I haven't come across Eliza yet: was she another daughter of Andrew and Isabelle?
I was wondering what happened to Amelia's other sister, Mary Dors, who I lose track of after the 1841 census.
It seems a little strange to name a daughter after an aunt by marriage, including surname; or not? But it certainly fits.
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Not strange for Newhaven....
Mary Dores married William Main and died in1903. I haven't researched their children yet but they had at least one daughter as her death certificate is witnessed by her son-in-law.
Re Eliza...I can't prove her parentage as she married and died before 1855....but there does only appear to be the one Dores family in Newhaven at the time
addition.....It seems that Mary was married twice. First to a William Liston then to William Main.
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I may be getting somewhere....although still trying to connect
I have an Amelia Dores married to a James Noble.....Amelia was known as Emily
Amelia(Emily) is my 2x Great grandmother (I believe) my Grandfather Gordon Noble was the son of Jean(Jane) Drybrough Noble and Watson Dores Noble who was James and Emily (Amelia's) son. I am coming up blank for the Dores family. I can trace back to Andrew Dores 1790 but that is about it. Does anyone have any information? I have heard Dores could be German but my google search doesn't come up with much.
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Hi Wendy,
I remember reading somewhere that Newhavener's may have Flemish ancestry. I wish I could remember where I read it. It is difficult to trace people with certainty if they died before statutory records began in 1855. Andrew is as far back as I have manage to go although I have heard of the name being Dors and Doors.
Regards
Aileen
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Hello Newhaven Cousins- I am also a Carnie and have Noble, Rutherford, Liston, Durham, Dryburgh, Flucker, Paterson, and many other "Newhaven names" in my tree. I am new to this forum and just found it today, but wanted to share a book with you all in case you did not know about it. Apparently it was written by a distant cousin of mine (although, in Newhaven, who ISN'T related??!!), and it is a history of the Newhaven families including historic photographs. It is a wonderful documentation of the Fisherman's (and Fishmonger's) way of life in that area as told by the people who lived there. The book is called Newhaven-On-Forth, Port of Grace, and it was written by Tom McGowran, published in 1985. I just searched to see if it might be available on Amazon, and it is available through 3rd party sellers. For those of us who remember the family stories, and those of us doing research so that we may learn of them, this is a wonderful opportunity to be "transported" back in time, surrounded by our ancestors! You may even find your own family history stories that have been told here. Here is the link - https://www.amazon.com/Newhaven-Forth-Grace-Tom-McGowran/dp/0859761304. Happy ancestral hunting, and "Lang May Yer Lum Reek!". For those of you who have access to the Newhaven History Museum, can anyone tell me if John Stevenson and his wife Rhona are still there by any chance?
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I'm my Great-grandfather was Daniel Flucker who married Sophia Thomson Carnie and my grandfather was James Carnie Flucker, fisherfolk from Newhaven. I have been working on my tree for about a year now. I have many Carnie's and Liston's, sometimes it gets very confusing with all the intermarriages with cousins marrying cousins. If any of my cousins here are on ancestry.com and can share info on our past relatives I'd really love to connect with you.
Lesley