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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: nigelspicer on Wednesday 10 July 13 16:13 BST (UK)
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Hello
Christopher Lethbridge of Westaway was born in 1654 and died in Pilton in 1713. He married Margaret Bourchier of Tawstock (I think in 1681 but not sure). They had 4 children (possibly more) -Mary, Christopher, Philip and Thomas. Please could someone with access to the PR's see if they can find their Baptisms- which I assume took place in Pilton.
Many Thanks
Nigel
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Hi Nigel
I'm going to the NDRO later today - I'll check up for you
Steve
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Hi Nigel
I've checked the PR transcription held at the NDRO today (I had a long wait for my appointment at the Hospital & didn't have the time to check the microfiche of the original as well) and found the following:
Marriage
3 Jan 1681/2 Christopher Lethbridge gent & Mrs Margreat Bowtcher
Baps of their children (spellings vary! but Christopher is always "Gent")
14 Sep 1683 John
? Mar 1685 Christopher
27 Dec 1687 Mary
13 Dec 1693 Sara (buried 28 Sep 1704)
7 Apr 1698 Thomas
30 Jun 1700 Philip
Burial
30 Jun 1713 Christopher Lethbridge, gent.
There was no mention of Tawstock in the transcription, and there are Bourchier families in Pilton (not so grand as the Tawstock ones though). The "Mrs" before Margaret's name is interesting - was she a widow? The title indicates gentry possibly, though I would normally only expect to see it for a married woman. I didn't see a burial for the eldest son, John which I expected as he was not on your list
Steve
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Hello Steve
That was very kind of you to look into this for me- I was very pleased to see that you were able to confirm these people and a few more. I hope you had an equally beneficial visit to the NDH.
I am almost certain that Margaret Bowchier was the daughter of Phillip (died 1687 ae 64) and Agnes (died 1698 ae 66)- there is a floor slab in Pilton Church to this effect. I believe the father of Phillip was the Rev. Roger but I am now in uncertain territory. Possibly of Tawstock but I am unsure. I think Margaret had brothers Robert , Joshua and Richard. Phillip might have been of Landkey.
These are all interesting questions to which answers would be welcomed, but what I really want to know is who married Chistopher their son?
It's a who killed cock Robin question- nobody really yet has the answer. Some references ie the Milverton PR's say Mary Periam widow, others say Mary Cannon (but I think she married John Southey of Fitzhead and was his mother in law), and others say he married Mary Southey (who unsurprisingly was the daughter of Mary Cannon and John Southey). All we know is that it was a Mary! Even the numerous books about the descendant poet Robert Southey who quote his desire to inherit from his wealthy ancestors become unclear/even confused!
So if you're up for a challenge then this is a good local one. If not I thank you very much for the look up- greatly appreciated.
Kind regards
Nigel
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I have a Lethbridge family tree dating from c.1810. It shows Christopher Lethbridge and his only child, Elizabeth Canon Lethbridge. Elizabeth married Hugh Somerville and her son was called John Southey Somerville. The tree is then added to at a later date noting John Southey Somerville died without issue in 1819. You can trace these and other family members on www.thepeerage.com.
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Hello ECW
Thank you for your reply. How interesting that you have such a record- I would love to know more about it's history etc. As you will know the peerage.com gives Mary Cannon as his wife and I'm guessing that this is reflected in your Family Tree. My own 'instinct' is that his wife was Mary Southey but as I said above all this is confused by the Milverton Parish Register which says he, or at least a Christopher Lethbridge (unlikely to be another), married Mary Periam, widow! I would really like to get to the bottom of this.
Any further information you perhaps have would be most welcome.
FYI Thomas , brother to Christopher, is my 7xGGF so I guess that makes us cousins of some sort!
Nigel
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Nigel,
Christopher Lethbridge's younger brother Thomas married Sarah Periam of Milverton. That is well documented.
Christopher may have remarried but the later - and hard to read - writing on the family tree I have (added in c.1850) says Christopher married "widow Dyke of Jettor in Co Somerset". So far I have not been able to trace that reference. If you manage to please let me know.
Best wishes, Edward
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Edward
Thank you for your reply. That reference to Mary Dyke is interesting because I was aware that a Christopher Lethbridge married widow Mary Dyke in Milverton on 10 Nov 1735 but wasn't sure if it was the same Christopher. Clearly the writer on your Tree thought it was.
That now makes 4 possible Mary's who married Christopher ie Mary Southey, Mary Cannon, Mary Dyke and also I have a National Archive record dated 1718 that says 'Christopher Lethbridge ..... and Mary Lethbridge his wife (late Mary Perriam)'. So that is all very confusing. He obviously had a thing for 'Mary's'!
Please let me know if you can provide any clarity. I will do likewise.
Nigel
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Nigel,
How interesting. You will have found out by now that Christopher is the most common name in the Lethbridge family. Every branch I've come across has it in almost every generation. For example, Christopher Lethbridge's father was a Christopher as was his nephew (second son of Thomas Lethbridge who married Sarah Periam). This has continued throughout the generations and one of my own middle names is Christopher. Good luck finding the right Christopher.
Best wishes, Edward
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Hello Edward
Yes there are a lot of Christopher's and you've just informed me of one more than I already new about. I was unaware that Thomas and Sarah had a son named Christopher. I knew of their son Thomas (1724-1744) and John (1722-1761)- incidently I believe the later was our common GGF. I wonder what you know about this Christopher (ie BMD information) because of course he may be the husband of some of these Mary's we've been discussing!
Thanks
Nigel
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Christopher Lethbridge (who died in 1713) and his uncle Christopher Lethbridge (1610-1760) - erstwhile mayor of Exeter - were both descendants of various John Lethbridges of Walson near Bow (otherwise Nymet Tracey) although in Clannaborough parish.
These two Christophers both endowed charities supplying bread to the poor of Bow parish.
http://www.medicalgentlemen.co.uk/charities/lethbridges-charities (http://www.medicalgentlemen.co.uk/charities/lethbridges-charities)
Peter
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Edward
Hello again! I am revisiting the Lethbridge's of Pilton and wondered if you had any more information (ie dates/marriages/children) on Christopher the 2nd son of Thomas and Sarah as described in your post above. I cannot find any reference to him in the Pilton PR's.
By the way the reference in your tree to a Mary Dyke is referring to the widow of Thomas Dyke of Tetton in the parish of Kingston in Somerset. She remarried a Christopher Lethbridge in 1735 in Milverton (although as said before it is definitely not clear how this can be the Christopher L of Pilton as shown in your tree since his first wife was still alive at this time!).
Kind Regards
Nigel
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Hello
I've just joined this group, spurred on by the references to the Lethbridges. Even though these messages are very old, I hope that the writers might still be involved.
Over the past year or so I have been working on a history of Southey/Periam/Lethbridge and their relationships in the Fitzhead and Bishops Lydeard areas. One relationship that I have had particular difficulty with is that of Christopher Lethbridge of Westaway, the son of the same, who lived 1685-1748. For some time I thought that he married Mary Periam: I have a copy of her marriage contract which is to a Christopher of Westaway and took place in 1716. I can also see that there was a marriage between two same named individuals in Milverton in 1716.
However, Christopher the son of Christopher of Westaway married Mary Southey, sister of John Cannon Southey, as confirmed by his will, various web sites and the name of their daughter, Elizabeth Cannon Somerville (nee Lethbridge) and their grandson, John Southey Somerville, Lord Somerville.
So, which Christopher Lethbridge of Westaway did Mary Periam marry? If anyone can help, I would be most obliged.
David
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Hi David,
I saw your message by chance. I have just recently started working on my distant cousin Cannon Southey and his related family. At the weekend I was looking on Ancestry.co.uk trying to find his sister Mary's marriage to Christopher Lethbridge. The search produced the following result that Christopher married Mary Dyke in Milverton, Somerset on 10th Nov 1735. Ancestry.co.uk also have high quality scans of the original parish registers. The scans actually show the original entry as Mary Southey, but the "Southey" has then been crossed out and "Dyke" added. The next marriage in the register is a John Kene and Mary Southey married on Nov 14th. It looks to me that Mary Southey was accidentally recorded twice in the parish register back in 1735 and then subsequently incorrectly changed when the error was spotted later. I appreciate that this is not answering you specific question, but I hope this helps you.
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Hi James
Many thanks for your message. I'm rather pushed at the moment, so I will limit my reply to my thanks and tell you that I have done a great deal of work around John and Canon Southey, particularly in connection with their land ownership in this area, and Lord Somerville, Canon great nephew. This was originally in connection with John Periam of Milverton, who partnered Canon in the purchase of the manor of Bishops Lydeard.
If you are interested in any of that, let me know and I can let you have a large amount of data.
For the moment my thanks.
best regards
David Victor
Chapel Leigh
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Hi David,
Thank you, I was not expecting such a fast response on such an old thread. I am very busy too at the moment, but will try to contact you again next week. I would be very interested in any information you have.
I tend to record my research on Wikitree. I have not done much on the Cannon Southey side of the family. Other people have added some family to the group tree. If you are interested in the Southey side then I have added my limited research to the bottom of the profile of Robert Southey (born 1670) under "Research Notes" (the first part of the profile is managed by another person).
Kind Regards,
James
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Hi David,
I hope you are well. I have returned from my travels and I would like to hear about your findings for Cannon Southey and his father John. Please let me know what you have? I am particularly interested in the Southey ancestry and any land holding passed down from Thomas Southey of Wellington.
Thank you,
James
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Hi James
Apologies for the delay in replying. We had a great weekend and it has taken me some time to get going again.
As I said in an earlier post, my interest is in the Southey/Periam/Lethbridge family group, of which the Southey's are one of the starting points. As a result, I know nothing about them prior to John's arrival in Fitzhead. He was a lawyer and came here to marry one of two sisters, Mary, who were the final heirs of the Cannon family, long term lessors of Fitzhead Court. I believe that they were married in 1696. They had two children, John Cannon Southey and Elizabeth Southey. I believe that she married John Periam of Hill, son of John Periam of Milverton.
Cannon married Betty Periam, John of Hill's elder sister. They had one child, a daughter, Jenny, who died as a child, and Betty predeceased Cannon.
Cannon became the resident in Fitzhead Court on the death of his parents. He was a successful lawyer and an avid collector of land. One of his significant purchases being with John Periam of Milverton, when between them they purchased the manor of Bishops Lydeard after the bankruptcy of the Stawell family, of Cothelstone and, later, Low Ham.
When Cannon died, the question was who was to be his heir? He had no direct family, although he did have a wider family. The most significant of these were his cousins who lived in a farm he owned at Holford, in Lydeard St Lawrence. They contested his will, leading to a case in Chancery which was not complete until the 1790's, some 30 years later.
However, the heirs he chose were one of the Aclands (which I have not explored as they are not in my area of interest) and John Southey Somerville, 15th Lord Somerville. He was the son of the Hon. Hugh Somerville and Elizabeth Lethbridge, the latter being the only daughter of Christopher Lethbridge and Mary, as previously discussed.
The Southeys of Holford were granted some silver plats and furniture, I believe, the rest going according to the will. Somerville died in 1819, his heir being his younger brother, who sold the Somerset estates to Richard Beadon, who sold them to Lord Ashburton.
I can probably furnish you with some more detailed information if you would like it. However, I think that the main bones are laid out above. I hope that you find it helpful but let me know if there are further details you would like.
best regards
David
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Hi James
I did some checking on my background notes regarding the marriage of Christopher Lethbridge of Westaway, the son of Christopher Lethbridge of Westaway. I have details of a marriage contract between Christopher, the son, and Mary Periam, eldest daughter of John Periam of Milverton, dec'd and his widow, Sarah. On 3rd October 1716, Christopher the father provided various lands in trust to the couple, whilst Sarah provided £2,500 as Mary's portion.
I believe that Elizabeth Cannon Lethbridge was the daughter of Christopher and this Mary.
While I haven't researched it as yet, I think that the later marriage to Mary Dyke would be a second marriage for Christopher. Mary Dyke was shown as a widow, so that would fit.
The Dyke family were an important local family based at Tetton, so Mary as a widow would have been an appropriate spouse for Christopher. Incidentally, the Dykes married into the Acland family, who were mentioned earlier.
I hope that helps.
best regards
David
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Hi David,
Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to post your replies.
Some of this is new information and other parts I had read in different places, but it is very useful to see it all collected together in a coherent form. This is going to be a very useful when I come to add the various relationships to WikiTree.
I have an unsourced family tree from 1968 which shows John Southey's parents as a William and Mary, his grandparents as Robert (a yeoman) and Anne Rowe, and his great grandparents as Thomas Southey (a clothier of Wellington) and Joan Budd. I have yet to see any original documents to support this, but have found John Southey's brother Robert Southey (married to Anne Lock) living in Wellington around 1700.
From the correspondence of the poet Robert Southey it seems that the "Holford" cousins held John Southey in high regard.
James
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Hi James
Robert Southey hoped that he would get a share of Cannon's fortune, just as those in Holford did. However, while from the Chancery case the Holford group obtained some plate and furniture, the rest went to Somerville and Acland. Robert missed out altogether and his irritation about that shows in some of his correspondence. Cannon was very much his own man!
I'm sure that the Wellington links are the important ones for the Southey's.
Just let me know if you would like anything else. For example, I have my extracts of various property deeds that he conducted: I keep the important parts, but not the dross.
Funnily enough, I'm giving a talk in Wiveliscombe next week about Lord Ashburton's estate, which will cover some of the Southey/Somerville material.
best wishes
David