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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: lindynz on Thursday 11 July 13 04:32 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for a birth record or any other information regarding a Hannah Matthews, who was born around 1809. I have very little clue to her origins, I only know she was married to Moses Cryer in about 1837 (though I can't find a record of this) and they lived in Gloucestershire, but she wasn't born there, according to 1841 census. The family arrived in NZ in 1849 on the "Mary", and they became some of the earliest and most respected settlers of the Canterbury region. An article about them says they first went to Wellington, where they briefly joined Hannah's brother, Charles. I was only able to find one Charles Matthews living in Wellington at the time, and my research shows he was born in Wiltshire in 1811, in the Highworth/Stanton Fitzwarren area, and came to NZ in 1842 with his wife and son on the "London". He was the son of a farmer called Henry Matthews. I'm trying to establish if my Hannah is part of this family, so any clues would be much appreciated.
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Hi lindynz
At St Leonard's church in Stanton Fitzwarren, Wiltshire...
Hannah Mathews 07 May 1809
Charles Mathews 28 Oct 1810
Parents are Henry and Ann Mathews - there are other children too.
I'll lookup the details for Henry and Ann's marriage.
Cheers
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Hi lindynz
In the Stanton Fitzwarren marriage register...
Henry Matthews and Ann Eilet, both of this parish were married by Banns (no dates) on 18 Dec 1802.
Henry signed his name and Ann her mark X. Witnesses were Isaac Matthews and Benjamin Large.
Mathews is also written as Matthews in the registers and there are variations of Eilet/Ilott/Eylott etc
Cheers
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1841 Census
Stanton,
Stanton Fitzwarren, Wiltshire
HO107/1178/26/Stanton Fitzwarren
Henry MATHEWS, 65, Independant
Ann, 65
CHARLES, 30, Shoe Maker
Alfred, 15, Apprentice
John, 60, Independant
All born in County
Trish :)
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1851 Census they are in Highworth, Wiltshire
Henry MATHEWS c 1774, Head, Mar, Fund Holder, born Highworth, Wiltshire
Ann c 1778, Wife, Mar, born Kingston Lisle, Berkshire
John c 1776, Brother, Unm, Annuitant, born Stanton,, Wiltshire
HO107/1833/112/18
Moses/Hannah may have married much earlier than 1837;
1841 Census
High St,
Lechlade, Gloucestershire
HO107/352/10/Lechlade
Moses AYERS, 36, Butcher
Hannah, 30
Jane, 3
Ann, 1
+ 1 Servant
Hannah is NOT born in County, all others are, image is CRYER not Ayres
OOPs realise now you have this 1841 Census lindynz
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Henry MATTHEWS, Christened 25 February 1774, Highworth, Wiltshire
Parents JACOB and JANE
Cant find a JOHN to them but there are these in Highworth;
RICHARD, 28 Sept 1770
ANN, 15 Sept 1772, Buried 02 Oct
Jacob MATTHEWS Married Jane WINNING, 16 Nov 1769, Highworth, Wiltshire
Source Familysearch.Org of all Records
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Tried to look for Anns Christening with no luck in Kingston Lisle.
But FreeREG has this Marriage;
John ELLIOTT/Mary WILLIAMS, both of Kingston Lisle Parish, Bachelor/Spinster, 12 April 1773, Kingston Lisle, Berkshire
A JOHN/MARY Christened these Children;
MARY WILLIAMS Elliott, 22 July 1773, Sparsholt, Berkshire
ANNE Elliot, 21 May 1775, Chieveley, Berkshire***
JOHN Elliot, 28 March 1777, Chieveley, Berkshire
SARAH Ellot, 09 Jan 1780, Chieveley, Berkshire
RICHARD Ellot, 04 Aug 1782
JANE Ellot, 28 Nov 1784, Warfield, Berkshire
Looks good but I am not 100 percent sure.
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AAHH,
Hi Coco2101,
Did Henry/Ann Mathews Christen an ELIZABETH just after the Marriage?
If so this all may be relevant;
1861 Census a Ann MATHEWS born c 1772 Sparshot, Berkshire, age 89, is with her Daug Elizabeth and Son in Law James GIBBS in Swindon, Wiltshire.
Step Children to James Gibbs are;
John Hall born 1839 Engerham, Wiltshire
Sarah Hall born 1843 Buscot, Berkshire
Robert Hall born 1845, Buscot
RG9/1272/96/24
Now there is this Marriage;
James GIBBS, Sept 1851, Swindon, 8 544
Elizabeth HALL on same page
1851 John seems to have been born c 1835 and is an Apprentice living away from Home born Inglesham, Wiltshire.
John HALL Christened 06 Nov 1836, Inglesham, Wiltshire to ROBERT/ELIZABETH
Other Children;
MARY, 02 Nov 1821 (may have died)
MARY, 06 Jan 1822
HENRY, 22 April 1827
EDWARD, 27 Sept 1829
CHARLES, 29 Oct 1834
JANE, 25 Dec 1831
GEORGE, 18 April 1834
WILLIAM, 18 Aug 1839
Then in Coleshill, Berkshire;
SARAH, 18 April 1841
ROBERT, 19 March 1845
Seems to work with 1861 Census.
1851 she is under Clizabeth Hall c 1801 Stanton, Wiltshire, living Highworth, Wilts with Charles age 25 and Robert age 6.
Sarah born c 1842 is with Sister Mary GIBBS born c 1822, Inggskham, Wilts (Inglesham, see above) They are living in Berkshire
HO107/1688/616/8
Marriage was Reg Swindon June 1849 William GIBBS/Mary HALL
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Hi lindynz and trish1120
Other children of Henry and Ann christened in Stanton Fitzwarren:-
31 Aug 1800 Ann Matthews d/o Henry Matthews and Anne Ilott (baseborn)
10 Apr 1803 Thomas Mathews s/o Henry and Ann Mathews
03 Mar 1805 Mary Mathews d/o Henry and Ann Mathews
10 Apr 1808 Jane Mathews d/o Henry and Ann Mathews
07 May 1809 Hannah Mathews d/o Henry and Ann Mathews
28 Oct 1810 Charles Mathews s/o Henry and Ann Mathews
15 Mar 1812 Jane Mathews d/o Henry and Ann Mathews
10 Apr 1814 Ann Mathews d/o Henry (Labourer) and Ann Mathews
07 Oct 1821 Jacob Mathews s/o Henry (Labourer) and Ann Mathews
The Alfred Mathews living with Henry and Ann on the 1841 census for Stanton Fitzwarren could be their grandson.
At Highworth, the following christening...
04 Jun 1826 Alfred Matthews s/o of Hannah Matthews of Highworth.
The entry for Alfred does not say he is baseborn/illegitmate. I would assume that Hannah is a single woman.
Finding the marriage details for Hannah and Moses is key to making the connection with Henry and Ann.
Hope this is of help.
Regards
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Hi lindynz and trish1120
oops! The first entry should read...
31 Aug 1800 Elizabeth d/o Henry Matthews and Anne Ilott (baseborn)
Regards
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Thank you Coco and Trish, that information looks promising so far.
Coco, I agree that finding the marriage of Hannah Matthews and Moses Cryer would be key to establishing a link to the Stanton Fitzwarren Matthews family - can anyone find it? It would be really helpful if I could establish who her parents were. The only things I know for sure about "my" Hannah are that she was born around 1809 (not in Gloucestershire) -she died in 1867 age 58, she married Moses Cryer in about 1837, she had a brother called Charles, and Hannah and Charles were both in Wellington NZ in 1849.
A couple of possible connections -the Charles who was in Wellington was a shoemaker which matches the 1841 census. And I notice that the names of Henry and Ann's children are very similar to the names of Moses and Hannah's children - Ann, Mary, Jane, Hannah, and Charles are all common to both families.
I'm interested to see the name Hall, because it has come up a couple of times in connection to the Cryer family. Some family trees have a son of Moses and Hannah called Charles HALL Cryer, b. 1845 in Lechlade, Gloucestershire. Other trees have him just as Charles Cryer - can anyone find a birth record for him which would verify the Hall part of his name? Also a Charles Hall (not born in county), age 15, was with the Cryers in Lechlade in 1841.
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I am in no doubt it is the correct Family for your Hannah.
Everything adds up.
Does Moses NZ Death Cert not say when/where he Married?
Moses/Hannah may have never Married and if a pre 1837 Marriage could be found Fathers names/occp's would not be on it only Witnesses who may or may not be related to the Bride/Groom .
Charles Cryers Death is Reg NZ 1860 age 16
Someone has a Christening date for him as 07 Sept 1845 Lechlade
Maybe someone has access to Lechlade Records?
Trish :)
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Hi again Lindy
I agree with Trish that Hannah is the daughter of Henry Matthews and Anne Ilott.
Re Alfred Matthews born 1826 in Highworth to mother Hannah. In 1841 he is an apprentice.
From the Marriage register of St Leonard's...
Alfred Matthews (B) aged 20 married Mary Ann Leg (Sp) aged 20 (botp) on 27 Dec 1845 at Stanton Fitzwarren.
Alfred is a Shoemaker and his mother is Hannah Matthews, a farmer. Mary Ann is the daughter of William Leg, a labourer.
Alfred signs his name and Mary Ann her mark X. Witnesses are George and Sarah Morse.
The family are in Highworth in 1851 with a 4 year old daughter Hannah, 2 year old William and 6 month old son John. They christen a son Henry in 1855, Highworth.
Is this the same Alfred who died in 1906 in NZ (ref A......y trees)? Some have his father as John Matthews.
A death certificate or even a detailed death notice may confirm him to be your Hannah's son Alfred.
Regards
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Hannah's death certificate gives no family information, just her age (58 in 1867) and death details. Moses' certificate in 1893 has his parents, children etc, but under marriage it says "unknown". Perhaps it was assumed they were married in 1837, but nobody bothered to check? Moses had another secret - shortly before heading to NZ in 1849, he was in gaol for insolvency. I haven't yet been able to uncover much about this, but it's starting to look like they were a family in need of a fresh start.
The only information I could find so far about the Alfred Matthews who died in NZ in 1906 is that he was 80 when he died (so born around 1826), he arrived on the "Westminster" in 1856 (I haven't found a passenger list yet), and that he was in Wellington 20 years before heading to Sandon, and that he had 6 sons and 2 daughters - so it sounds like this could be our Alfred. There was another Alfred Matthews born, I believe, in 1845 in NZ, he was the son of our Charles Matthews, and he was a prominent farmer in Wairarapa, on a property called "Waiorongomai".
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I am a NZ descendant of Hannah Matthews and have extensive family tree details if still required
Robin nz
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Hi Robin, thanks for your reply. Any information you are willing to share would be welcome!
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I am a GGGrandaughter of Charles Matthews who emigrated to NZ in 1842 and settled at Waiorongomai in the Wairarapa. Charles was the son of Jacob Matthews and Jane Winning and your Hannah was his sister.
Alfred Matthews and Mary Ann Legg, plus 4 children emigrated to NZ in 1856 and settled in Sanson, Manawatu. Their daughter Hannah was later to marry Alfred, son of Charles - my GGrandparents.
Also on the same ship was Jacob and wife Ann, the youngest brother of Charles and Hannah, and they settled in Masterton, Wairarapa.
We have always understood that Alfred (son of Charles) and Hannah (daughter of Alfred) were 2nd cousins but after reading your posts it would seem that Alfred may have been Charles nephew rather than his cousin! What a complicated family - I look forward to hearing more from you.
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Correction to my post:
Charles Matthews was the grandson of Jacob Matthews and Jane Winning.
His parents were Henry Matthews and Ann Elliot (variety of spellings for Elliot)
Robin NZ
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just looking at all your info and really greatful for clarification. Hannah and Moses Cryer are my GGGandparents their daughter Anne who married Samuel Francis Scott is my GGrandmother. I have a copy of marriage cert as on line and was having trouble finding Hannah's parents. Does anyone have any photos of the Cryer family I have just been to Cryer Road in Southbridge to see id I could find their homestead
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For a picture of Sarah Cryer go to http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/phoyograph/2280/sarah-cryer
I have quite a lot of information re the Matthews and Cryer families and still searching so happy to help. I live in the Wairarapa, North Island but have a son living south of Christchurch at Tai Tapu so often visit that area which is near Leeston. I would be interested to meet any family members if the occasions arose.
Robin McConachy
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Thank you Robin. I live in Tauranga and my daughter lives in Peal Forrest. I am after any photos of the Cryer family, I have one that could be Ann but none of Moses, have the write up re Sarah.