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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: DebNZ on Saturday 03 August 13 04:38 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone
I am looking for some info about Caroline Gaffyne who was the mother of Henry Alexander Smith Gaffyne b. 1889 Teddington. On Henry's baptism record there is just a dash where his father's name should be which indicates he is illegitimate.
However, the only Caroline Gaffyne I can find in any UK census is first "m" indicating married in 1891 and then "widow" in 1911. The 1911 census has her living with her nephew, Montague Westlake aged 20, a solicitors clerk, born in Marylebone, at 61 Church Ave in Mortlake - I can't find any other definite reference to him either.
Caroline's death is recorded in 1927 and probate is granted to Peter Cecil Gaffyne (her brother in law?, brother? who?) who was a manufacturer. Funny it wasn't left to her son. :-\
These are the only clues I have! Does anyone have any ideas about how to progress with Henry's parentage? I have tried linking the nephew to no avail. ???
Help!
DebNZ
Auckland, New Zealand
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Hi
BIRTH: Registered Sep Qtr 1883, Richmond Surrey
Peter Cecil GAFFYN
1891: 12 Norfolk Terrace, Mortlake, Surrey
RG12 / Piece: 623 / Folio: 117 / Page 3
Head: Caroline NELHAMS 68, wid, Caretaker, Needlewoman, b Barnsby Gloucester
Grandson: Peter C GAFFYNE 7, b Richmond Surrey
Grandson: Harry WESTLAKE 10mths, b Marylebone, London
CENSUS 1901
Peter Cecil GAFFYN age 19
B abt 1882 Richmond, Surrey
A servant in Willesden, Hendon, London in 1901
RG13 / Piece: 1221 / Folio 164 / Page / 4
BAPTISM: Henry Alexander Smith Gaffyne
Mother: Caroline Gaffyne
Baptised: , 17 Aug 1902 (dob 5 Apr 1899) Abode: Littleton, Strawberry Vale
I see Caroline GAFFYNE was born abt 1865 Richmond Surrey ? So Peter could also have been a son too??.
Cheers
AMBLY
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I found Peter's baptism...his mum was Catherine. Caroline leaves her estate to Peter who I believe was her nephew as he is living with her Mum in 1891 as her mother's grandson. Also, Caroline says in 1911 that she has had one child. mmmmm
Thanks for your input.
I have been working away at it and believe that Caroline's maiden name was Nelhams, her Mum Caroline Lane and her father Robert Nelhams. But I can't find any reference to a marriage at all. How the Gaffyne name came about is the mystery!
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Hi Deb NZ
Snap ;D, was just about to post and suggest the younger Caroline below in 1901, daughter of Walter Robert NELHAMS & Caroline LANE is your Caroline GAFFYN.
1901: 2 Duffas Almshouses (near The Vineyard), Richmond Surrey
RG13 / Piece 674 / Folio 129 / Page 2
Head: Caroline NELHAMS 79, Widow, Living on Bishop Duffas Charity, b Ampney, Gloucestershire
Daughter: Caroline NELHAMS 36, Single, Sick Nurse, Richmond Surrey
I noticed Montague WESTLAKE was the name age, roughly, as Harry WESTLAKE!
Cheers
AMBLY
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Me too!
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Found all this:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQRV-DMK
Peter Cecil GAFFYN age 31
Father: Ernest GAFFYN
Married 23 Aug 1914, St John, Egremont, Cheshire, to:
Stella Crane HUNT , father: Samuel HUNT
PROBATE: Peter Cecil GAFFYNE of 6 Glebe Road, Staines
Died 23 Feb 1960 at Windsor Hospital
Probate: Nottingham granted to Stella Crane GAFFYNE, widow
Effect £6382, 6s, 11d
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/32598/pages/1015
Peter Cecil GAFFYNE and his business partner Nathaniel Henry BROWN dissolved their partnership in Dec 1921. Their business was: DAVIDSON & GAFFYNE, Wholesale Costumiers & Ladies Outfitters, Liverpool & London
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/41176/pages/5418
In 1957, in legal matters regards the death of a Spinster, Minnie Flavell CRANE ( related to his wife)
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/33671/pages/8225
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/33819/pages/2706
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/33955/pages/4446
Bankruptcy Matters 1930 to 1932
Peter Cecil Gaffyne, Twickenham, Mantle Manufacturer (clothing)
Did Peter's baptism name his father?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Well done! and thank you so much.
No, his baptism only named his Mum.
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Ada Rosa Nelhams b1866 was Caroline's sister and the mother of Walthew Gaffyne Nelhams, born 1890 in Westminster, and at her death in 1931, her probate was left to her nephew Henry Alexander Smith Gaffyne. Interesting that Gaffyne was used in her sons name. Have you traced back beyond Caroline senior and Walthew Robert to see if this my be a family name that both girls used to cover the illegitimacy/unmarried status perhaps?
Jo :)
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Yes, I have gone back a few generations this afternoon but the name is an odd one and doesn't seem to show up much.
Just trying now to find some more about Robert Cecil's father (odd that he wasn't on the baptismal record) but no luck.
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Ada was Caroline's unmarried sister btw and Henry was her nephew. But then strangely Caroline left her money to HER nephew..not her son Henry. So very strange!
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I see the baptism now - he was at least 10 at the time:
Peter Cecil GAFFIN
Baptised: 16 Aug 1895, St Paul, Westminster Bridge Road, Southwark
Mother: Catherine GAFFIN
Abode: 16 Col*gans Road, Handsworth
I have to wonder..... who had him baptised - and could it be that it was not his mother, and who ever it was got his mother's name wrong.?
Did the NELHAMS have a daughter( or a daughter in law) named Catherine?
Cheers
AMBLY
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No they didn't - crazy eh? It's just about doing my head in.
It may be that Harry/Montague/Walthew are all actually the same person which is a bit odd but the whole story is becoming quite odd!
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Could she have outlived her son.
The son may have been unable to manage his own business ?
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Hi
Ada's probate.
Probate is not inheritance.
(Receipt of) Probate is the first step in the legal process of administration of a person's will.
Ray
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I wonder whether this might be Harry/Montague Westlake?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D8575540
Note that the birthdate of 18 May 1890 is identical to that recorded on the baptism of Walter Gaffyne Nelhams.
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I would think it pretty likely that Peter was Caroline's son. The baptism is very late and as has been pointed out we have no idea who presented him for baptism. Even if his mother's name was reported correctly it is very possible that the minister made an error in writing up the register.
His birth registration is much more likely to be reliable.
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Resurrected topic, started Aug 2013.
DebNZ may have found a lot of information in the intervening months.
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Oh yes, thanks Dawn. Had not spotted that it was a year old.
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Grateful for any help though, doesn't matter how long ago I posted.
It's still most peculiar.
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. . . . . and we are more than willing to help.
DebNZ - are there any updates from the period in between 2013 and now?
Ray
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No there aren't Ray. I thought the topic was exhausted (it certainly exhausted me!)
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Just checking :)
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I'm not sure how old this thread is.
I am tracking the Nelhams family, one branch of which is based around Richmond.
It does seem that Walthew Gaffyne Nelhams, (see https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1558/31280_199206-00038/5884223?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMAbirths%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dwalthew%26gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3dnelhams%26gsln_x%3d0%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3dtj2&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults ) son of Ada Rosa Nelhams, has the same date of birth as (Henry) Montague Westlake (see http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8575540) who died in 1919 in Richmond.
Walthew would indeed have been Caroline's nephew (1911 census)
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Hi Jim
Welcome back ;D
According to her profile, Debz was online here last November so should receive an email notification that you have posted and hopefully come back soon.
Dawn
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...and indeed I did get an email - how can i help?
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see my message --- #22 on the thread.
Jim
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Yes Jim, you are absolutely correct.
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Hi,
Apologies for resurrecting a dormant thread....
My maternal grandmother was part of the Richmond-based Nelhams clan and Caroline is a distant cousin of mine.
As with other posters here, I'd come to the conclusion that Walthew Gaffyne Nelhams and Harry (Montague) Westlake are one and the same people. He did indeed pre-decease his mother (Ada) which would explain why she left her wordly goods to her nephew.
As other posters have commented, Gaffyne appears a made-up surname that both sisters bestowed on their illegitimate sons, but I wonder where Westlake fits in? Certainly there are a couple of likely Westlakes in or around Richmond in 1891..
More generally, the Nelhams surname is interesting as it's very localised in/around London for most of the 19th century. There appear to be three main clumps, centred around Richmond, Brentford and Islington respectively. I'm slowly mapping all three, with a view to seeing if they share a common ancestor....
Cheers
Adrian