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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: Ian Sumpter on Saturday 03 August 13 22:41 BST (UK)
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Greetings, i am searching for the birthdate and any family info of William Press, born at Castleward, Down Co. ~1787. Possible child of John and Ann Press or Michael and Catherine Press?
Thank you for your time and efforts,
cheers,
Ian
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There are less than 30 Press listed in http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/P/PrPy.htm
The first of which says
PRESS family Down area originally from England but came to Downpatrick area after 1641 LR 2007 p11. The overall impression of the family records from her listing suggest they settled in the civil parish of Ballyculter where Castleward is a townland . See Ros Davies Co Dowb parish map, which is just south eastwards of Downpatrick. Also see her list of surviving church records under Churches, then civil parish, then the denominations she lists
To my ear Press is a variant spelling of Price, so depending who recorded which record, one needs to ones options open.
You aren’t giving any detail of what you know or irish resources already searched so cant help further.
Good luck JimG
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William was baptised at Ballyculter on 4th June 1787. His parents are recorded as Michael and Catherine Press of Castleward. There are other siblings in the registers if you want me to do lookups for you.
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it was just a passing response, hope you get others responding whenever you give enough information
good luck onwards JimG
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Borrberw: many thanx for the baptism date of Wiliam Press (of Ballyculter) and his parents' names. Any information that you can gather on siblings or parents would be greatly appreciated.
cheers,
ian
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Below is all Press baptisms in the Ballyculter Church registers between 1777 and 1838.
10th August 1780, Vere, John and Ann Prefs [Press], Castleward
15th October 1782, Michael, John and Ann Prefs [Press], Castleward
27th December 1785, William, John and Ann Prefs [Press], Castleward
4th June 1787, William, Michael and Cath'e [Catherine] Prefs [Press], Castleward
27th June 1787, Ann, John and Ann Prefs [Press], Castleward
5th May 1789, Rose, John and Jane Prefs [Press], Castleward
6th November 1789, Robert, Michael and Cath'e Prefs [Press], Castleward
4th July 1791, Mary, John and Rose Prefs [Press], Castleward
20th April 1792, John, Michael and Catherine Prefs [Press], Castleward
4th November 1792, Catharine Ann, John and Rose Prefs [Press], Castleward
18th December 1794, John, Michael and Cath'e [Catherine] Prefs [Press], Castleward
15th April 1795, John, John and Rose Prefs [Press], Castleward
20th June 1806, Mar't [Margaret] Jane, Thoms [Thomas] and Anne Prefs [Press]
17th September 1806, George, Mich'l [Michael] and Cath'e [Catherine] Prefs [Press], Castleward
15th October 1807, Ann, Thos [Thomas] and Editha Prefs [Press], Castleward
1st October 1810, Thomas, Wm [William] and Ann Prefs [Press], Castleward
18th Mary 1815, Cath'e [Catherine] Anne, Wm [William] and Eliz'th [Elizabeth] Prefs [Press], Castleward
17th June 1816, James, Michael and Jane Prefs [Press], Castleward
7th September 1817, Vere, Wm [William] and Eliz'th [Elizabeth] Prefs [Press], Castleward
7th May 1818, John, Michael and Jane Prefs [Press], Castleward
27th February 1820, Mary Jane, Wm [William] and Elizabeth Prefs [Press], Castleward
15th October 1820, Vere, George and Jane Press, Ballyculter
24th November 1822, John, George and Jane Press, Ballyculter
23rd February 1823, Alicia, Wm [William] and Elizabeth Press, Ballyculter
26th February 1826, William, Wm [William] Press and Amelia Ward, Castleward (Illegitimate)
21st January 1827, Anne Jane, George and Jane Press, Ballyculter
7th September 1828, Jane, Michael and Jane Press, Churchtown
28th March 1830, William , George and Jane Press, Ballyculter
20th June 1830, Arabella, Wm [William] and [Elizabeth] Press, Ballyculter
20th May 1832, Harriet, Wm [William] and Elizabeth Press, Raholp
19th May 1833, James, George and Jane Press, Ballyculter, Englishtown
22nd December 1833, Thomas, James and Margaret Press, Strangford
Hope this is useful to you.
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'Prefs' in the above entries would actually have been Press- 'ss' written with long s so that it looks like 'fs.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s
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In case its still helpful after the amazing response from Borrberw, I am wondering if you have searched the Blackwood Family History manuscript trees Collection in the LinenHall library, Belfast, if you cannot visit the library I suggest you ask them for photocopying estimates only if they think your knowledge relevant and be prepared to pay the extra for post and packing if you are tempted. “The Library welcomes all research enquiries, whether made in person, by phone, fax, letter or e-mail. Enquiries from members will be answered free of charge. Visitors from afar, and in particular those engaged in serious research projects, are recommended to make prior contact with the Library to ensure that they receive the best possible service. More complex enquiries should be made by letter, fax, or e-mail. Enquiries of this kind from within the British Isles will normally be answered free of charge, apart from any copying and postage charges. A minimum charge of £2 will normally be made in respect of overseas enquiries. A4 photocopies b&w are 20p. The Library may be able to assist those with more extensive research requirements on terms subject to negotiation with the Librarian. Contact the Library for further information on info@linenhall.com or Telephone 028 9032 1707. Their address is The Linen Hall Library,17 Donegall Square North, Belfast BT15GB, Northern Ireland, see their website for contact details
The volume references that might interest you are
PREY Vol 91 included on my whim to keep all options open
PRICE Vol 22 page 33 etc Transcribed, Vol 23 p33 35 (OR volumes 33, 35,) Vol 76 Typed 1936
PRICE-WILLIAMS Vol 52
Ask are there any notes connected following the last page number or at the back of the volume.
➢ Hoping this is includes new information for you
➢ good luck, Jim
ps However if the material is really relevant when you get it, I suggest a further donation to this unique library that is always needing extra funds.
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Borrberw: WOW! Great stuff, many thanx for the Ballyculter church data for 1777 to 1838. This data filled in a number of important gaps in my family tree.
Would it be possible to get the marriage and death data for this time period? Also, was there any Press info pre- or post- this time period?
Now to search for the birth and marriage dates of Michael and Catherine Press, and their sons John Press and Thomas Press. My information indicates that in 1774, John Press was a member of Ballyculter Church of ireland.
cheers,
Ian
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Information suggests that Michael Press may have been born in Co. Down ~1760. Michael and Catherine Press were possibly married ~1785 (nr Castleward?).
ian
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They are most certainly going to have been married at Ballyculter, but the registers for marriage only begin in 1815, so you will not be able to find them. The register records show how the family is so strongly connected to Viscount Bangor family, they would be his immediate servants if living in Castleward. Castleward isn't so much a townland more Viscount Bangors private residence at this point in time. The baptisms only begin in 1777, nothing exists any earlier.
I will have a look in the marriage and burial records for you.
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Correction marriage records begin 1812
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Marriages for Press in Ballyculter Register between 1812 and 1838
13th July 1814, Michael Press to Jane Carrol, Strangford
13th February 1821, James Press of Castleward and Elizabeth Kearns of Strangford
3rd May 1824, Thomas Creen to Mary Press both of Strangford
5th February 1833 Widow Press is witness of marriage of Thomas Jones and Catharine Lack both of Strangford
12th October 1834, John Barnet of Strangford and Mary Jane Press also of Strangford by licence by me Chas [Charles] Wolsley. In the presence of Wm [William Ardiss], James Smyth, Robert Middleman
15th March 1837, Edward Press and Elizabeth Beatty both of Strangford by licence by me Wm [William] Brownlow Ashe. In the presence of George Press, Robert Middleman vestry clerk.
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Burials for Press family in Ballyculter register from 1812 - 1900
14th June 1814, Widow Ann Press of Castleward
24th January 1821, William Press Strangford, son of Thomas Press
19th March 1825, Catharine Press Castleward
1st July 1832, James Press aged 64 years from Englishtown
22nd February 1833. William Press aged 48 years from Raholp
2nd October 1834, Catharine Ann Press aged 18 of Ballyculter
26th May 1841, Elizabeth Prefs [Press], Ballyculter aged 51
20th November 1843, Anne Press, Strangford aged 76
24th June 1845, Thomas Prefs [Press], Strangford aged 80
15th September 1846, Anne Prefs [Press], Churchtown aged 24
31st January 1848, Michael Prefs [Press], Ballyculter aged 64
12th April 1848, Michael Prefs [Press] , Castleward aged 88
25th February 1854, William Press, Castleward aged 68
30th August 1854, George Prefs [Press], Churchtown aged 75/73?
25th October 1855, Charles Press, Portaferry parish of Ballyphilip aged 55
24th April 1856, Maria Prefs [Press], Green Row, Castleward aged 23
12th October 1856, Jane Prefs [Press], Almshouses, Ballyculter aged 67
24th May 1858, Elizabeth Prefs [Press], Strangford, aged 62
8th July 1858, Kitty Prefs [Press], Green Row, Castleward aged 57
5th February 1864, Jane Prefs [Press], Ballyculter aged 87
15th February 1864, Edward Prefs [Press], Ballyregan Saul Parish aged 69
18th November 1870, Catherine Anne Prefs [Press], Green Row aged 5
14th December 1871, William Press, Castleward aged 16
10th March 1874, Harriett Press, Castleward, aged 4
?/?/1881, Jane Press, Ballyculter
28th December 1892, John Press, Belfast aged 75
Hope this helps
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Tremendous data, Borrberw! Any help on finding information on Michael and Catherine Press birthdates/places or descendants would be greatly appreciated. This is the earliest link to our Press family.
Again, many thanx for your time and efforts.
cheers,
Ian
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Hi Borrberw,
Do you have access to other records for Castleward/Ballyculter Church? If so could I trouble you for a lookup? I am looking for any Moores from Ballyculter. There is a headstone in the church cemetery which I have a record of. I am also looking the marriage record for George Moore (b.1796 d.1876). I know George's children but am trying to find out his background. I have wondered if he worked for the Ward family. Some of his children were listed as born Audleystown and some Castleward.
Thanks so much.
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In reply to Bally2
I cannot find George's own baptism record at Ballyculter. But there are other children born around this time (1796) to a George and Sarah Moore, could these be your George's parents? His death is recorded in Ballyculter as follows:-
3rd October 1876, George Moore Englishtown Ballyculter aged 80, Joseph Watson.
Moreover, George Moore (snr) is a character I have been following for some time. His signature appears on several land leases belonging to my own family. Which would support your theory that he worked for Viscount Bangor. I think he may have been Viscount Bangor's land agent. I have map showing his holdings in 1835. The church records are interesting when they show one child born in 1832 at Castleward and the next is born in Audleystown in 1838. Matthew Orr of Audleystown quit his lease to go to USA in 1835. On the freeholder records and Mathew's lease George Moore was one of the lease lives. I think the Moore child born in 1838 at Audleystown was born in Mathew Orrs house. I have located the ruins of this property from a family story that was passed down in the late 1800s.
I have looked through the marriage records of Ballyculter and cannot find a marriage for George pre 1832. Do you know when the eldest child was born?
Hope this helps.
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For Ian Sumpter
The Vestry minutes begin in 1814. Looks like they had a bit of a shake up that year. On the 20th June 1814 the vestry "for the purpose of ascertaining each Person title to his Pew".
However of interest to yourself is Pew no 2 shared by
James Coates Englishtown, Michael Press Ballyculter, Michael Press Castleward and Francis Alsop of Englishtown.
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Hi Borberrw,
Thanks so much for the reply. That's very interesting. I saw mention of a George Moore in relation to the Wards in some of PRONI's catalogues and wondered if our George (or his father) might have been a land agent for them. I don't have any information regarding his parents, so I'm not sure if his father was George. He had a daughter Sarah though, so it's possible the mother was Sarah.
A family bible indicated that George married an Ann who died in 1842, but I can't find any record of her. Their children were:
Robert b. 1824
Thomas b.1826
John b.1828
Sarah 1830-1830
Mary b.1832
Sarah b 1834
George b.1835
James b.1838
Henry b.1840
Thanks again.
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Reply to Bally2
Sorry, I can't find a burial record for Ann at Ballyculter in 1842.
Have you also considered they might be Methodist and not CoI.
Ros Davies shows a record for a George Moore of Ballyculter built Strangford Methodist meeting house in 1804.
Heres what i have for births of children
12th December 1824, Robert, George and Anne Moore, Castleward
26th January 1826, Thomas, George and Anne Moore, Castleward
15th January 1832, Mary, George and Nancy Moore, Castleward
9th February 1834, Sarah, George and Anne Moore, Castleward
11th March 1838, James, George and Anne Moore, Audleystown
I cant find George born 1835, but there is a gap in the register when it was sent to the Bishop between 17th and 24th March.
New register from April 1838 shows DoB, Baptism, name, parents, place, occupation
18th July 1840, 20th August 1840, Henry, George and Anne Moore, Audleystown, Bailiff
I found a burial record for Sarah Moore of Strangford, 9th August 1843 aged 70
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Borrberw, thank you again for your time and efforts in finding information regarding the Press family in Ballyculter. Two Michael Presses sharing Pew No. 2. My information indicates only one Michael Press (of Castleward) alive at this time. He being born ~1760. Perhaps the other is his father?
cheers,
Ian
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Hi Borrberw,
Thanks again for looking for the records for me. You have provided some interesting information for me. I located George on Griffiths from 1863 and I believe he was living on the edge of the Castleward estate in Upper Ballyculter at that time. There doesn't appear to be a structure there now.
I had thought of the possibility that they were Methodist, but wondered why there are records at the parish church? Maybe Ann was Methodist? Do you know where a Methodist would have been buried? Maybe Old Court?
Another thing that had me wondering about their connection to Viscount Bangor is that George's granddaughter had the middle name Crosbie. This could have been after Viscount Bangor or just a family name?
Thanks so much again for your assistance!
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I believe the Viscount Bangor name was Ward. Interesting that Wm Press (baptised 1826) is an illegitimate child of Wm Press and Amelia Ward (both of Castleward). Amelia = sister or niece of Viscount Bangor III?
i
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Reply for Bally 2
I've just checked out your Griffiths Ballyculter and noticed that George is a tenant of John Orr in 1863!
If you take a look at the Freeholder records in Proni you will find some interesting connections. They occurred in Killough on 24th June 1824 :-
John Orr, Ballyculter, leases lives Mathew and John Orr and Pr Adolphus Frederick
Mathew Orr, Audleystown leases lives Wm Crosbie Ward, Mathew Orr and George Moore
William and Thomas Orr, Welchestown leases lives William Crosbie Ward, William and Thomas Orr.
Thomas is my ancestor, and I have copies of these leases. George always signs himself as Geo. Moore.
For some time I have been wondering how these 4 men connect, and tonight you have helped me.
I know that Mathew emigrated to America with his family in 1835. Then we see George have 2 children in Audleystown from 1838. This leads me to believe that George moved into Matthews house. The story is that Viscountess (Harriet) Bangor during 2nd marriage to Nugent, destroyed the village of Audleystown in 1852. Mathew's house is close by, so would have been pulled down also( I have located its ruins). This explains why George is living south of Castleward in 1863 (Griffiths). So when I see George as tenant to John Orr, it would appear to strengthen the family connections between John and Matthew Orr. So thank you for this.
On the Methodist side, there was no separate graveyard, so internments would most likely be at Ballyculter CoI. I believe the Methodist was Black Causeway which is on the north side of Castleward close to Audleystown. The map I have of 1835 shows George's plot of land, but no house on it, again this is why I think he moves into Mathew Orrs house after he vacatesit. If you are interested in the goings on in the area of that time you should research the story of Rev Edward Smyth who was ousted from Ballyculter around (1770s?) for becoming a methodist.
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I forgot to mention
Mathew Orr also had Crosbie as one of the middle names for one of his children. Crosbie was the maiden name of Hon Edward Ward wife ( and his cousin), Lady Arabella Crosbie. He is named as the landlord named on the leases I have with George's signature. So I think this is homage to the landlord moreso than a relatives name.
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Reply for Ian Sumpter
Yes, I think Amelia is a 'Ward'. So I think she might be a distant cousin. Did you find out if they ever married? It struck me that perhaps they were not allowed to marry as they had other plans for her.
There is a record of an Amelia Ward married a Rev Hugh Montgomery who would have been Hon Edward Wards neice ( by his brother Robert). Not sure if this would fit with your Amelia's dates.
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Borrberw,
No, i have not been able to find out whether Amelia Ward and Wm Press married. The only Ballyculter marriage reg i have seen is the one you kindly forwarded this week. Nor did they have any additional illegitimate children. Nor have i found information indicating that Wm Press ever married.
i
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Re the Ward family, again the Blackwood family manuscript trees in the Linenhall Library include volumes containing whole or part trees of Ward families, so I presume Amelia should be in one or more of the volumes. The volumes are 3p166 Marcus Ward of Belfast, 14p34 Lisburn Cherryhill, 14 p36 Malone Belfastiensis ie pen name for articles John? Ward, 14 p38 Marcus Ward of Belfast, 22 p5 Castleward, 28 p5 Mountpanther, 28 p6 Vianstown
Also the Burkes landed gentry of Ireland and The visitatiions of Ulster might contain more or less
Has anyone checked the press price connection yet??
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To BallyaltKilliganG
I took your advice and phoned the Linenhall Library earlier this week. They have copies of the Ulster Pedigree on the Orr family, which I have been looking to see for years, but my experience was that they were unhelpful. They would not help unless I called in person. I would expect the response to be the same if I asked about the Blackwood material you have mentioned. However, every cloud has a silver lining, and the bad experience I had with Linenhall made me look to see if I could find the book elsewhere,..........then I found it on amazon on a rare book collection!! You never saw anyone whip out there credit card so fast. I now have the book in my mittens, so will be pouring over it looking for connections this weekend.
Having said this next time I am in Belfast I will make the effort to go there. Is this library likely to have material on the Orr family? I am especially interested in those in the Downpatrick/Strangford area. Most of my family research has been obtained from Proni. All ideas most welcome.
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Please be generous minded to the LinenHall Library as it is a real gem of a surviving institute from 1788. Enjoy your visit. Don’t underestimate its resources. I was employed in it for over 10 years. Even though I was given free rein to all of the library resources during that time, there were so many more treasures that I didnt unearth or even can still imagine. If I were you I would plan staying the whole day in it and you may find items the staff don’t know about! I hurriedly made the index to the Blackwood MSS family tree collection for my own use ;D about 1961, already mentored within weeks by a Bookman Jimmy Vitty., the Librarian. I wanted to give the best info possible to members and visitors finding their family history. I already had other outside interests, nevertheless my index was prepared outside library hours in haste and I encountered difficulties completing it, volumes were borrowed or moved before I could allocate numbers to them. My index cards were accidently taken by a governor who thought they were scrap catalogue cards, just after staff member Miss ? Stanley typed them up, as directed by the Governors who had decided they would allow it to be typed at the libraries expense, and she had had difficulties in transcribing my dyslexic pecularities. The Orr entries, demonstrate my problems, so my apologies for this my 1961 exercise. {I learnt much from that experience see the start of the librarys over a ¼ million items of the NI political empheral collection or my work on Irish Booklore. To bring you uptodate on the Blackwood Collection however read
http://irishgenealogical.org/sites/default/files/memsepts/2007281.pdf
which is the Irish Genealogical Society International quarterly journal called the Septs - the Jan 2007 issue contains, a clear article about the Blackwood Collection by David Rencher pages 16-21 plus he mentions he has completed an index that supplements/ supercedes mine. I think David Rencher who I have just discovered has done an excellent job, and wish I had been told about his work by Librarians Gray or Killen who knew my address and desire to have the collection reindexed properly.
Your Surname Interests expanded a little by me :
Creighton of Grangecam / Down. Could this include in Blackwood CRICHTON Vol 6 p76 and contains a Clarke line.
Edgar of Quoile, Erinagh, Downpatrick. LHL has two entries for Edgar in Blackwood vol 21 and vol 22
Ennis or Innes nothing listed, but I met another bookman mentor of the Innes name in Cambridge Univ Library cataloguing dept in 1968.
McKee of Quoile, Downpatrick. LHL has in Black wood a McKEE Vol 8?N
Megarry of Grangecam/ Down. LHL has in Blackwood a MEGARRY tree Vol 4 p2
Orr of Welshestown, Carrowcarlin, Ballyculter, Strangford. Jim thinks which or what Ulster Orr pedigree. Sounds like Ray Jones Ulster Pedigrees : Descendants, in many lines, of James Orr and Janet Mc Clement who emigrated from.... San Francisco : Printed by the author, 1977. I can imagine also another in the Ulster visitations series about 9 or 11 volumes white leather or white linen outside the irish section, BUT I remember a copied manuscript in manuscript of the Adair or Orr family., once held in their strongroom, My Orr entries for Blackwood are sadly thus ORR 23?, ??
Ross LHL has in Blackwood Volume 90 {this a late number which meant I didnt see it in the first volumes I unpacked , it was possibly kept in the Strong Room and perhaps the whole book is about the Ross family, and a special binding ?
Anyway good luck onwards Jim
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Hi bally2
I was reading this conversation earlier today, my interest is the Moore family from Strangford/Ballyculter area, James Moore born in 1838 was my gt gt grandfather. You mentioned you found names and dates of birth in an old family bible, is there any way you can post photos of those entries? Or could you email them to me? I would love to see them. I have visited the church in Ballyculter and found the Moore grave mentioned in the churchyard. It would be lovely to see the entries in the bible too.
Many thanks
Debbie
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Someone couldn’t find the building remains of i think Michael Press's homestead within Ballyculter parish. Griffiths valuation website askaboutireland shows
1863 Michael Press living in the townland of Audleystown map ref 1g
has a house office valued at £1 fifteen shillings pa with garden 24 perches. the group of tenants houses from 1c to 1k are visible on that map there are 3 identical block cde fgh ijk so Michael homestead 1g is the middle part of the centre block. They appear to be still standing. take the northern road leading out of CastleWard ie park road and you get the view of TempleWater and the and lake as you drive north westerly towards then turning slightly left you drive past the three blocks of terrace house on your left.
1863 Jane Press lived in the townland of Ballyculter Upper map ref 8m has a house valued at £1 five shillings peer annum and garden 18 perches the ref 8m is very disappointing the housing is one long rectangular building on a current satelite view the roof appears reddish surrounded by overgrown bushes southwards on the satellite view are 3 small rectangular shapes that might be the three of the original building foundations however switching to googles 2008 satellite map I think a house no 41 on the audleystown road is 100 yards to the west of an unmarked road that runs northwardsand if you take the first lane to the right you are there,, it could have been a sort of long house with several families packed into it.
a sad article entitled Mystery of the vanishing County Down village Audley's Town By Claire Savage BBC News
at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17737197 is worth reading
good luck and i encourage all to visit the area for a week
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There were Press living in Portaferry, Suasan Press married a chap called Reed, Bob Press lived in Church Street.