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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: nynie86 on Monday 05 August 13 03:42 BST (UK)
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Hi all!
I'm looking for Rose McDunn or McDonald born around 1812 in Westmeath County.
Her parents are Frances and Thomas. According to what I have, but still nothing to prove it, Frances would be a McDunn too...
I wanna know exactly where she's from, and everything you can find about her parents or family.
I've had a look to everything that is available on the web, but found nothing at all... If you have an access to the catholic records of any catholic parish of Westmeath County and you can have a look there for me...
Thank you very much!!
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If you haven't already,it might be worth redoing your search using McDaniel, which I have found quite often as a variation of McDonald and McDonnell in Westmeath records.
It also might be worth asking a moderator to move this to the Westmeath board.
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I did see a few McDon's in a Westmeath listing a little after the departure of the family. I think that is probably the migrant family's surname. I've been told by few Westmeath genealogists that there are no McDunn there. Here are the variations on the name for each mention of her in records. I specify the priest to outline if the scribe was anglophone or francophone which may influence the spelling, and to show variances under the pen of the same scribes. Paisley was Irish obviously. Note Qc Records use maiden names, incl. under Paisley's pen.:
18.5.1833 Rose McDonald (Paisley) godmother to Lawrence Breen
15.4.1834 Rose McDunn «d/o Thomas McDunn and Frances McDunn of the county of Westmeath». (Paisley) - wed. to François Lévesque:
19.1.1835 Rose McDunn (Paisley) child birth
24.1.1837 Rose McDunn (paisley) child birth
7.7.1839 Rose McDunn (Paisley) child birth
15.1.1841 Rose McDonald (Paisley) child birth
12.10.1844 Rose McDonall (Destroismaisons) child birth
1.12.1846 Rosalie McDonald (Nadeau) child birth
2.1852 (1851 census) Metis Rimouski, Rose McDonald 39 ans “canadienne-française (sic)”
28.7.1856 Rose McDown (Blanchette) dau marriage
14.2.1859 Rose McDoe (Blanchette) dau. marriage
27.5.1859 Rose McDoe (Duguay) own sepulture
4.2.1861 late Rose MacDown (Duguay) son marriage
7.7.1862 late Rose McDoe (Cloutier) dau.'s marriage
Have not seen the actual marriage record of my gg-grandfather Thomas in Old Town Maine on 2.9.1868 to see what she is called there.
Callum McNeil a gaelic speaking genealogist in Scotland's Hebrides explained McDown (there anyway) means son for the brown haired one, and was siding with this name as viable option when presented with this problem.
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I know it has been awhile since you asked your question but I am a mcdunn and the family has had a presence in westmeath for many years. I'm doing some research right now, lots of Marys and roses. Good luck!
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Very interesting. Which parishes?
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It is really interesting!
Denis, do you have a clue why Paisley switched from McDunn to McDonald after all these years "knowing" her?
Mary, like Denis, I'd like to know which parishes!! This could be really helpful, as I'm stuck there for years...
Thanks for your help!!
Jany
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Jany, a guess might be that Paisley was hard of hearing... But who knows. He did also call her MacDonald in the initial entry in 1833 where she is a godmother.
The parish records for Westmeath are now online at NLI. Unfortunately, many parished only have records from the 1820 or 1830s on... I am going through them now...
On the plus side, McDunn – if indeed they exist as such, are very rare, just like the first name Frances. So it should be easier to confirm their ID if they show up there.
I've heard rumours that Thomas and Frances also came over, but kept going past Quebec. Why? To where? I wish I knew. Why would Rose stay put along the way? I find no trace in the 1850/1851 censuses.
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Denis,
I don't know if that information is right, but my mother told me that according to what she heard from her mother (Rose was the g-grandmother of my grandmother...) Rose left Ireland for the US and came in Quebec AFTER landing in the US?!... East coast I guess, but where?... I don't know if its something you can confirm with what you know about her? Maybe her parents landed in the US too and stayed there...?
If you find something, just tell me! :)
Jany
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I had never hear of the US stepping stone theory... interesting. Maybe she is related to the US McDunns, who arrived pre-civil war, and claim to hail from Mullingar (in co. Westmeath). But I didn't see any McDunns in the Mulligar registers.
Would she have come to Canada alone (or without her parents?)
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I need your email address better yet, mailing address. I spent an hour giving you info and lost it all.
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Very interesting. Which parishes?
Right now I can't direct you to a Rose McDunn in Canada, that has not been my focus. I have been aware of a McDunn woman who married a Levesque in Canada. There has been that presence in Canada for a very long time. Going back to McDunns in Ireland, I have been able to trace the name back to 1623+\-. That McDunn looked as though he was a gamekeeper and he appeared in that year's census. As to McDunn in US, there was a James in Baltimore,MD in1777. There are McDunns living in northern NY in 1795 and early 1800s. I suspect they were British loyalists who fled to Canada intending to return after the British won the Rev War. They probably lost their holdings in the US and decided to remain in Canada. I'll give you some counties or parishes: Fermanagh, dummiller, terribuske,derryvollan?,maghery cross, Ennis mcsaint. Sorry, I wrote that a long time ago and I'm sure I've screwed up along the way.
Please catch me on Facebook.
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My family name is mcdunn, my earliest ancestor was Patrick mcdunn married to Mary O'Donnel both from W Meath Ire. Pat born 1799, Mary 1805., nine children born in or near Wilmore, Pa. Pat and Mary were married 1\30\1825 Russagh Parish. A firm was hired to do research which came up with variations of the family name as follows: Muckatin, Mucaden. The family homestead was located in Cambria County Pennsylvania. First names of Patrick, Mary, and rose appear frequently in the family history. Please go to " Good luck! I am on rootschat if I can be of further help.
Posted on behalf of Mary who had sent the above message to RootsChat Technical help :)
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Mary, you can reach me at address removed by moderator
I wonder if Rose came over into the US with her (presumed) brother Pat (assuming you don't know Pat's parents). Rose is the one who married François Levesque in Sainte-Catherine-de-la-Jacques-Cartier in 1834. There is an Irish community there at the time. Still many Irish headstone in the cemetery, but no McDunns.
In earlier threads, she is said to be form co. Sligo, but I was never able to trace that in primary records, it was just in hand-me-down trees. Her marriage records states clearly she was from Westmeath. But with no town or parish to hang you hat on...
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You can safely exchange sensitive information by using the private message (PM) function, just click on the round icon below the posters profile name.
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Regards
Sarah :)
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Hi there, I know this is an old post but thought I may be able to offer some info since I am researching the same family. I'm also a descendant of Patrick McDunn and Mary O'Donnel . They were my great-great great-grandparents. What I know is Patrick was born in Westmeath in 1799 to Patrick McCudden and Ann Dealy. McDunn is American and the story goes that a judge told a patrick that no one would be able to pronounce his name let alone spell it, so it was changed to McDunn when they came here (PA) around 1826. Patrick and Mary were married in Rathaspick and Russagh in 1825 and also had their first son Thomas baptized there in Nov 1825. I have this info in my family tree book but I also found a photo copy of the original baptismal and marriage records online. When Thomas was baptized, it says sp. Francis and Rose McCudden. I believe that means they were godparents. I will post a couple links of what I've found
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http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632450#page/12/mode/1up
Thomas was baptized the 17th of November 1825. I tried to post a screen shot but my file was too large
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Hi there, I know this is an old post but thought I may be able to offer some info since I am researching the same family. I'm also a descendant of Patrick McDunn and Mary O'Donnel . They were my great-great great-grandparents. What I know is Patrick was born in Westmeath in 1799 to Patrick McCudden and Ann Dealy. McDunn is American and the story goes that a judge told a patrick that no one would be able to pronounce his name let alone spell it, so it was changed to McDunn when they came here (PA) around 1826. Patrick and Mary were married in Rathaspick and Russagh in 1825 and also had their first son Thomas baptized there in Nov 1825. I have this info in my family tree book but I also found a photo copy of the original baptismal and marriage records online. When Thomas was baptized, it says sp. Francis and Rose McCudden. I believe that means they were godparents. I will post a couple links of what I've found
This is an old thread, and the post information on the topic.
Attached images may help folks get a better idea of the history.
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Wow!! I've been busy and didn't have the time to take a look here for a VERY long time!! :) Thats really interresting!!!! :)
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Wow!! I've been busy and didn't have the time to take a look here for a VERY long time!! :) Thats really interresting!!!! :)
Here are some stats from the PR, and HDST above, that may help you in your research.
The father, Patrick Muckedon, on the HDST is born at Winetown Westmeath Co Ireland in 1782, and age 60, dies in 1842. His wife Anne Dealey is born 1794, dies, age 48, in 1832.
The wife of William Muckedon, Catherine Duffey, is born 1812, and, age 46, dies in 1858.
There has been some controversy about her DOD because the HDST appears to show 1838. Well, that is clearly not correct because we know from the PBR she bears two children after that date. Too, her life years are consistent with what we should expect from the life years of her in-laws, Patrick and Anne Muckedon.
Worth mention, the Parish records up until the 1830s are written in Latin, not English. And it does not help that the community is yet Gaelic speaking, not English.
Now, your family record, as set out in the US McDunn book shows Thomas born Nov 1825, of Patrick McCudden and Mary O'Donnell. Need now to find a BR for Patrick McCudden, unless I am misreading the data. Certainly he should show up in the BR sometime close to, or after 1814, because Anne Dealey was just then 20 years old. But she could have conceived as early as 1810, 16 years old.
Although reading the following generations of the Muckedon family it is interesting that only one of them chose to modernize their family name as Patrick McCudden did, and at such a early date. Perhaps it is adopted from Church practice where this spelling is chosen by authors instead of that reported them by respondents?
Later as they begin to write down what is reported them there arises a lot of variety. My research clearly shows considerable confusion there, some adopting very odd translations of Muckedon on vital stats, B M D, e.g McKedon, Mochadan, Muketin etc. Indeed officials appear to have accepted offered names rather than, as earlier, guessing them from their own experience. So we have dozens of different English spellings of it. But by far the most common is McAden, which is the same as that adopted in Scotland by the root family.
Indeed it is precisely because of the form of the original name that we know the Westmeath Muckedon originated in Scotland, and not, as the worthy Latin scholar PPs, their Curates, assumed, Armagh Co., Ireland .
Too, since there are now DNA matches across these families, there is no need for a records proof of kinship.
Finally attached a PBR 1823, Russagh & Rathaspic, Co Wesmeath, Ireland, where Rose McCudden is listed as a sponsor at a Baptism. This is the only one I can find in that records book. I have not looked in the next series but you may if you wish.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0176
I hope that helps you with your research.
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Can you tell me the location of the headstone that was posted? In Ireland? I'd love to visit it as I am in Ireland the next 48 hours.
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Can you tell me the location of the headstone that was posted? In Ireland? I'd love to visit it as I am in Ireland the next 48 hours.
Certainly.
From Dublin - assuming you are there. Head for Mullingar so - take the M4 heading N.W. At Kinnegad turn to the right onto the N4, continuing a N.W. heading. You should bypass Mullingar and continue on N.W. on the N4.
Your target, next turn off of the N4, is a couple of miles before the village of Rathowen.
On your RHS, behind some trees is the stone Church of St Mary's, and next to its front gate is a road going N.E; on the sign post on the N4 it may indicate "Street". Turning to the right, you do not need to drive very far along this lane, as on your LHS is the old Cemetery where stands the Headstone. If you cannot find the Cemetery, just go ask a local where it is. If desperate you may have to knock on some doors to find help. BTW For some time the HDST has been maintained by an Argentine family.
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This might help.
https://www.townlands.ie/westmeath/moygoish/russagh/rathowen/barratogher/
Follow the L1927 to Street
https://tinyurl.com/y5cf7ltc
KG
Added: Welcome to RootsChat, gestrich :)
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Thanks for the detailed information. I visited the area just before I got your message -- exploring what is near Winetown. Tomorrow I may try to make another visit but not sure.
I too am a descendant of the McDunn's that moved to Cambria County in Pennsylvania and am part of a family that lives just an hour away from that area.
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Thanks for the detailed information. I visited the area just before I got your message -- exploring what is near Winetown. Tomorrow I may try to make another visit but not sure.
I too am a descendant of the McDunn's that moved to Cambria County in Pennsylvania and am part of a family that lives just an hour away from that area.
Thank you for the update.
Once located you will find the HDST about the middle of the Cemetery.
Welcome to RC.
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Thanks for the detailed information. I visited the area just before I got your message -- exploring what is near Winetown. Tomorrow I may try to make another visit but not sure.
You're very welcome ;D
Hope that you are able to visit the grave in the church graveyard.
KG
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I made it to the cemetery. The directions were perfect. We found the headstone along with a few of others of interest.
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"Lord have mercy on the soul of Patrick Muckedon Late of Winetown, who Departed this life August the 1st of A.D. 1818, aged 59 years. Also, his wife Rose Muckedon alias Murtaugh Departed 29th August 185? age 86 years. Erected by their Son Patrick Muckedon"
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"Lord have mercy on the soul of Patrick Muckedon Late of Winetown, who Departed this life August the 1st of A.D. 1818, aged 59 years. Also, his wife Rose Muckedon alias Murtaugh Departed 29th August 185? age 86 years. Erected by their Son Patrick Muckedon"
This is a good fit for a parent to Patrick Muckedon reported on the standing HDST. Thank you for posting it. BTW a local informed me when I was there, that there are several older HDSTs laying down and some belong to this family.
Thank you again for the update and new HDST write up!
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This might help.
https://www.townlands.ie/westmeath/moygoish/russagh/rathowen/barratogher/
Follow the L1927 to Street
https://tinyurl.com/y5cf7ltc
KG
Added: Welcome to RootsChat, gestrich :)
The correct start for a 'walk' to the location off of the N4 is here
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.649672,-7.5108739,3a,60y,14.32h,94.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skdSfQl4CXZjGazrjTW-SXw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-GB
Thank you for your co-operation.
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"Lord have mercy on the soul of Patrick Muckedon Late of Winetown, who Departed this life August the 1st of A.D. 1818, aged 59 years. Also, his wife Rose Muckedon alias Murtaugh Departed 29th August 185? age 86 years. Erected by their Son Patrick Muckedon"
This is a good fit for a parent to Patrick Muckedon reported on the standing HDST. Thank you for posting it. BTW a local informed me when I was there, that there are several older HDSTs laying down and some belong to this family.
Thank you again for the update and new HDST write up!
After some more research, this individual is likely not as I thought before. And so not a parent to he on the standing stone.
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In case others are wondering about location....