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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Limerick => Topic started by: Cymrusean on Monday 05 August 13 04:08 BST (UK)
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I am trying to research my great grandfather Patrick Sullivan. I found in the parish of Cappamore the baptism of his daughter Bridget Sullivan in 1861.
Patrick Sullivan was married to an Ellen Barry but there is no record of their marriage. I found two strong candidates for Ellen Barry: one b. 1834 in Murroe and the other b.1838 in Doon.
After the birth of Bridget Patrick Sullivan and Ellen Barry left Ireland and went to live in South Wales. The first child in Wales was a Eugene Sullivan. Given that Patrick Sullivan is a very common name I have been trying to identify a Patrick Sullivan based on his father being named Eugene.
I can find one Patrick Sullivan born to a Eugene in 1829 in the parish of Mahoonagh but I could not establish a conclusive link.
There are a couple of Eugene (Owen) Sullivans with families in the adjoining parish of Pallasgrean at about the right time but I can't find a record of Patrick. Could his Baptismal record been lost
Any suggestions or have I come to the end of the road?
Sean Sullivan
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Possible marriage ??
Name: Patrick Sullivan
Birth Date: 1836
Birthplace:
Age: 28
Spouse's Name: Ellen Barry
Spouse's Birth Date: 1843
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 21
Event Date: 09 Apr 1864
Event Place: Skibbereen, Cork, Ireland
Father's Name: Denis Sullivan
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Barry
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70231-1
System Origin: Ireland-EASy
GS Film number: 101461
Reference ID: 401
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Thank you for the information but that Patrick Sullivan and Ellen Barry remained in Ireland and reared a large family.
My great grand parents had a second child in the Wales in 1863. The first child was Bridget and she was born in Ireland. The only Bridget I could find was born in Cappamore, Limerick in 1861 to a Patrick Sullivan and Ellen Barry. I am pretty sure this is our Bridget and I was able to deduce strong candidates for Ellen Barry. Patrick Sullivan was more of a challenge and I am not sure if it can be solved.
Sean Sullivan
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So where did your Patrick live and die ?? Buried ? Do you have a death record ?
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Hi,
Thank you for your reply. Patrick Sullivan and Ellen moved to South Wales from Ireland. I was able to locate them in the Welsh Census of 1871 and 1881. In both Censuses the place of birth of Patrick and Ellen was given simply as Ireland. I did most likely locate the death certificate of Patrick but the place of birth was again given as Ireland.
A few months ago I gave up on the paper trail and took a DNA test. It turns out that I am not a Sullivan by blood (out of 200 Sullivan names in the database only 4 matched) and my forefathers adopted the name Sullivan. When the English decided to organize the Irish for governmental purposes (~1500AD) many Irish people had to take a Surname. Presumably, my forefathers living in the Clan territory of the Sullivan took on the name. The most definitive Sullivan match was a Sullivan with a known history near Glenbeigh on the Inverragh peninsular. So, my Patrick Sullivan my have originated in Kerry and the family may have moved north to Limerick during these turbulent times. Since, Patrick first son in Wales was Eugene, I have been using this as the name of Patrick's father and I have identified 5 Patricks that lived near Glenbeigh or Killorgin.
The next step for me was to look at all the Sullivans listed in the village in Wales where Patrick was in 1871 and see if I could identify a sibling. I started that at the end of March but it was interrupted by me having open heart surgery. I am now walking 3 miles a day and ready to get back to work.
I did find a Patrick Sullivan in 1851 (GV) renting a house in the town of Doon. It would be nice to see if the rental records exist and if this Patrick was a bachelor or had a family.
I can search databases with great speed and accuracy but I have no knowledge of the social history of Ireland. I read somewhere that the British were building roads and railways to give work to the Irish after the famine and maybe my Patrick followed the work and ended up in Doon. I feel that social history of Ireland would be very beneficial.
A long and rambling email and if you have any suggestions or questions then please ask. Thank you for taking the time to read my original posting.
Sean Sullivan
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Hi Sean,
Interesting story :)
I have a Maria Margaret Sullivan / OSullivan (bn abt 1820-1826) married to James Fitzgibbon (s)( bn abt 1826)- they married in Bulgaden Limerick on 13 Feb 1841- Witnesses Catherine Sullivan and James McCarthy- I assume Catherine is either Marie 's mother or sister?
They were parents of Kate Fitzgibbons Quaid/Quain - born abt Jan 1841 Bulgaden - Married William
Quaid/Quain in Bruff 3 Feb 1867
I am wondering if your Patrick could be a brother to my Maria ?? I know there are a tons of Sullivan but your never know ?
Bye for now
Jila
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Hi Jila,
Are you familiar with Roots Ireland? You can use the database to find Siblings. If you are not familiar let me know and I will try to do a quick search.
I am trying to understand my DNA results but I would be happy to give it a try.
Sean
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Hi Sean,
Yes I have been on Roots Ireland website- but I am afraid I am not too good at finding things :( If you can help me that would be great !
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I did quick search on Roots Ireland and I found the following:
1. Did not find a Baptismal Record for Mary or Maria in Bulgaden.
2. In the adjoining parish of Dromin I did find a Maria born in 1821 to a Timothy Sullivan with a wife Kate. Kate and Catherine are synonymous. Maria had a brother Daniel born in 1827.
3. In a nearby parish of Bruff there was a Mary born to a James Sullivan and Catherine in 1820. No siblings were found.
4. In the parish of Bruff also there was a Mary born in 1821 to Thomas Sullivan and a Catherine.No siblings in Bruff but I did find a Thomas Sullivan married to a Kate in Dromin who had three children: John 1819, Kate 1826 and Ellen 1828. This Thomas and Kate could be the same as Thomas and Catherine in Bruff.
5. In Mahoonagh, which is a possible parish for my Patrick, I did find a Mary born in 1822 with a brother Patrick born in 1825. The mother was a Catherine. A long shot.
6. For completeness I did find a Mary born with a mother Catherine in Newcastle in 1824 and Fedamore in 1822.
You can purchase birth records for any Mary or Maria you are interested from Roots Ireland. They will give you the maiden name of the mother and god parents. Before I get I only searched the Catholic Records.
Sean
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Thanks Sean,
Quite a few options there to choose from..I still am not sure which one might be the parents of my Maria Margaret Sullivan Fitzgibbons
I found a brother to Kate- John: Name: John Fitzgibbon Date of Baptism / Birth: 20/05/1846 Address: ? Parish / District: BULGADEN Gender: Unknown County Co. Limerick Denomination: Roman Catholic Father: James Fitzgibbon Mother: Margaret Sullivan Occupation: Sponsor 1 / ----------------------
also a sister Margaret:Name: Margaret Fitzgibbon Gender: Female Baptism/Christening Date: Baptism/Christening Place: Birth Date: 24 Jul 1864 Birthplace: 0351,KILMALLOCK,LIMERICK,IRELAND Father's Name: James Fitzgibbon Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Mary Sullivan Mother's Birthplace: Mother's Age: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C70123-6 System Origin: Ireland-ODM Source Film Number: 101094 Reference Number:
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It appears perhaps the family moved from Bulgaden to Killamock..The Quain/Quaid were also from Killamock ..
I dont know if this helps or not.. I did see several Fitzgibbons and Sullivans living as neighbours in Bulgaden on the Griffiths map too..
Just guessing though..but I assume the witnesses to the wedding of Maria Margaret & James being Catherine Sullivan had to be a sister or her mother??
I am not much help I am afraid :(
Jila
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hi Jila,
In my humble opinion the best options are either 2 or 3. The Irish often moved between parishes and the because Maria was married in Bulgaden, she might have easily been born in an adjacent parish.
You could look for the possible fathers in the Tithe Applotments Books for Limerick. These were created between 1826- 1832.
Sean
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The Bruff area is very possibly..My grandmother said we were related to the Kennedy family - I assumed it was on the William Quain/Quaid (bn 1811) side as his wife was Nellie (Ellen)Fitzgerald .
However I guess it could have been on the Fitzgibbons side? As I have been told that the Fitzgeralds and Fitzgibbons are all connected anyway.
My grandma also said a brother named Patrick stayed in Ireland and had about 12 or 13 kids- all with red hair..I again assumed it was a brother on the Quain/Quaid side but could very well have been on the Fitzgerald or Fitzgibbons side ?
One more story was that there was a big estate that was to be distributed many years ago- our family was missed out as no one could find them at the time I believe this estate went to Rose Kennedys father.
My g- grandfather John Joseph Quaid was born in Crean- near Bruff- about Dec 1869- parents were William and Kate (Fitzgibbons) Quaid/Quain..Kate's father =James
I am not sure if any of this helps or not ?
Jila
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Jila,
Interesting stories. You seem to have a lot of information, you might want to consider contacting a professional genealogist to help you work through the possibilities. I am afraid it's beyond me.
Sean
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Thank-you..As you can see I dont get to this site often enough..Just wanted to thank-you so much :)
I do not know the area very well but I think Bruff, Crean Bulgaden or Fedamore would be the closest matches.
I know William Quaid married Kate Fitzgibbon(s) in 3 Feb 1867- Kates father =James Fitzgibbon(born 1826) Kate was born in 8 Jan 1841- but I think the record I found for James & Maria Margaret 's marriage was Feb 1841-so I am not sure if it is correct?
I found a possible death for Mary Fitzgibbon (s)- but again not sure it is correct? Name: Mary Fitzgibbons Event Type: Death Event Date: Jul - Sep 1880 Event Place: Croom, Ireland Registration Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1880 Registration District: Croom Age: 55 Birth Year (Estimated): 1825 Mother's Maiden Name: Volume Number: 5 Page Number: 163 GS Film number: 101590 Digital Folder Number: 004200672 Image Number: 00204
Jila