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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: wrjones on Monday 05 August 13 10:35 BST (UK)
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My relative Sarah Ann Ford was born in Fenton Staffordshire in 1900.She married a Percival Frederick Ball in 1927,in what is described on Staffordshire BMD as a Stoke and Wolstanton Civil Marriage.The marriage cert states they married in the Register Office.
This Percival Frederick Ball is a complete mystery man,the son of the marriage knows absolutely nothing about his father,where he was born,where he died etc.He is given on the marriage cert as 25 years old and the son of a George Ball,a Master Butcher(Deceased).
Any thoughts anyone has on this Percival Frederick Ball will be very much welcomed!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi
FreeBMD has a birth for a Percival Frederick BALL West Ham Essex 1901 which would make him 26 in 1927??
Cheers
Karenlee
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There's a George Ball on the 1891 census, a butcher born Stanwell, Middlesex: -
ref: RG12 piece 1024 folio 17 page 27
William Clements, 51, greengrocer b Hounslow
Dorcas Clements, 49 b Hounslow
Lucy 18, Emily 15 both b Hounslow
George Ball son-in-law 26
Lydia Ball daughter 20
John Ball 4 months
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Thanks,yes I've looked at quite a few with all combinations of the name!Though they are all possibilities as he could have come from anywhere!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Have you had a look for him on the 1911 census? You can search it for free on Ancestry at the moment :)
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There's a George Ball on the 1891 census, a butcher born Stanwell, Middlesex: -
ref: RG12 piece 1024 folio 17 page 27
William Clements, 51, greengrocer b Hounslow
Dorcas Clements, 49 b Hounslow
Lucy 18, Emily 15 both b Hounslow
George Ball son-in-law 26
Lydia Ball daughter 20
John Ball 4 months
Thanks,this George would have to be a possibility as he died in 1911 according to online Trees though no sign of a son Percival Frederick.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Look for him as Percy in Staffordshire on the 1911 (did post reference but got deleted)
Willow x
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That's the one I thought ;D
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I wonder whether he is the one born in West Ham?However he would have to be using the widest definition of a nephew given fathers details on the marriage cert?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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There's a George Ball on the 1891 census, a butcher born Stanwell, Middlesex: -
ref: RG12 piece 1024 folio 17 page 27
William Clements, 51, greengrocer b Hounslow
Dorcas Clements, 49 b Hounslow
Lucy 18, Emily 15 both b Hounslow
George Ball son-in-law 26
Lydia Ball daughter 20
John Ball 4 months
This Ball family are in Twickenham, Middlesex in 1911
Willow x
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Yes I have seen them,the Sarah Byatt looks of interest too!She has one daughter Louisa c 1905 given as Ball!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Ohh! Marriage of a George Ball 1909 Stoke on trent and on the same page Sarah Byatt
Willow x
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Good spot Willow ;D
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As long as we are all on the same wavelength.lol
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hopefully!
Interestingly Lydia Ball nee Clements married George Pearce 5.10.1913 at Twickenham so it looks like that George Ball also died about the same time
Looking at FreeBMD he died 1911 too in Brentford
Willow x
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I have found the family in 1901
RG13/1189/69/2
Willow x
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Ahha!
1901 census 22 Riles Road, West Ham, Essex
George Ball 31 head b Newington Surrey (crossed out and London written in) Fruit Salesman
Eliza Ball 29 wife b Newington
Eliza Ball 8 dau b Bermondsey
George ? Ball 7 son b Bermondsey
Joseph Ball 5 son b Bermondsey
Alice Ball 4 dau b Newington
Louisa Ball 2 dau b Newington
Frederick 2m son b Plaistow, Essex
RG13/1574/95/44
Willow x
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There is also a death of a Percy F Ball b c1899 Dec1967 Camberwell
Is this the same one you we looking for? or did the family stay in Staffordshire?
Willow x
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Well apparently after the birth of a son Percival Frederick simply vanished!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Sarah Ann died in 1946 and given what I've said it does seem rather strange that her Obituary notice in the local paper lists her as the "beloved wife" of Percival Frederick Ball!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Wow definitely a mystry man then
There is a Percy Frederick Myatt registered 1900 Stoke on Trent
I wonder if he was illigitimate and this should be Byatt? or was the one from West Ham a bigamist?
Willow x
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Wow definitely a mystry man then
There is a Percy Frederick Myatt registered 1900 Stoke on Trent
I wonder if he was illigitimate and this should be Byatt? or was the one from West Ham a bigamist?
Willow x
He is given as Myatt on Staffordshire BMD,mother's maiden name of Leese.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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What was his occupation on the marriage certificate?
Willow x
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Wow definitely a mystry man then
There is a Percy Frederick Myatt registered 1900 Stoke on Trent
I wonder if he was illigitimate and this should be Byatt? or was the one from West Ham a bigamist?
Willow x
He is given as Myatt on Staffordshire BMD,mother's maiden name of Leese.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
Yes he is with his grandparents Leese on the 1911 down as Mayall
Willow x
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Percival Frederick is given as a Motor Omnibus Driver on the marriage cert.Father George given as a Master Butcher(Deceased).
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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The witnesses to the marriage are no real help,they are initialled.They are E.Cotton and B.James.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Interestingly there is a Percy Frederick Ball on the 1911 born 1890 who is a chauffer in Longdon
Willow x
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Interestingly there is a Percy Frederick Ball on the 1911 born 1890 who is a chauffer in Longdon
Willow x
He is given as 25 years old on the marriage cert.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I know thats the stinger ???
Willow x
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How about this found on Ancestry
15.3.1964 - 'Ball - anyone knowing the whereabouts of Frederick Percival Ball (husband of Rita Ball) last heard of in 1949 at 23 Bursledon Pace, Purbrook, Portsmouth, when a bus driver with Southdown Motor Services Ltd or any issue of his, please communicate with Messrs Dallow and Dallow Solicitors of Lloyds Bank Chambers, Queen Square, Wolverhampton'
Willow x
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Fredereick P Ball married Rita O Benham 1943 Portsmouth
Willow x
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Fredereick P Ball married Rita O Benham 1943 Portsmouth
Willow x
Thanks very interesting,the plot thickens!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Have you seen this too
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=10697
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=8658
Willow x
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Have you seen this too
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=10697
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=8658
Willow x
Yes this was the relative who alerted me to this puzzle!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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It appears this character has eluded many searchers before us!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Nice to know we are not the only ones hitting a brick wall too ;D
Willow x
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Wow looks as though everyone's been hard at it! Thank you. I'm Ellie by the way the author of the post on the family history site :)
I just read Willow's post regarding a marriage to a Rita Ball, thank you.
I think this maybe worth investigating further if possible. Can I ask how did you find this on ancestry please?
kind regards
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Hiya Ellie
I just searched under perc* fred* ball in England luckily Ancestry chucks up any fred* perc* combinations too
It might be worth the cost of the marriage certificate to see what information is on there
Willow x
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Hi Willow,
I'm thinking you could be right :)
Thanks
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Unfortunally Dallow and Dallow arent there any more otherwise I would have been banging on their door to see if they ever had a reply (its only round the corner) ;D
Willow x
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Unfortunally Dallow and Dallow arent there any more otherwise I would have been banging on their door to see if they ever had a reply (its only round the corner) ;D
Willow x
What a pity, I suppose there must be a record somewhere though :)
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Hi
There may be some information on Dallow and Dallow at Wolverhampton Archives see this link
http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/search/?q=dallow+dallow+solicitor&cb_submit=Search
Margp
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F P Ball married R O Benham 1943 Portsmouth
I wonder if this might be her birth entry & birth entry of a son
1924 Portsmouth
R O BENHAM mmn LENE (it could be LANE)
1943 Portsmouth
R F BALL mmn BENHAM (male)
full name can be found on FreeBMD
perhaps her parents marriage
1915 Portsmouth
Robert BENHAM to Teresa LANE
There are other BENHAM birth entries Portsmouth mmn LANE 1917 - 1930
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How about this found on Ancestry
15.3.1964 - 'Ball - anyone knowing the whereabouts of Frederick Percival Ball (husband of Rita Ball) last heard of in 1949 at 23 Bursledon Pace, Purbrook, Portsmouth, when a bus driver with Southdown Motor Services Ltd or any issue of his, please communicate with Messrs Dallow and Dallow Solicitors of Lloyds Bank Chambers, Queen Square, Wolverhampton'
Willow x
I wonder if they are trying to find heirs to a Will ??????
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Hi
What was his Occupation on BC for the child that was born, was he in the 1WW
Margp
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We only have the marriage cert to Sarah Ann Ford to go on.Percival Frederick was given as a Motor Omnibus Driver.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Is the child still living, I can only see one BC, for the Stoke on Trent area, with the mothers maiden name Ford, but she was born in 1926
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The child was born in 1927,if your using ancestry don't use a county for the year!The child is still alive.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Is the child still living, I can only see one BC, for the Stoke on Trent area, with the mothers maiden name Ford, but she was born in 1926
No Sarah Ann was definitely born in 1900, and great Uncle George 1927, sadly he passed away in 1991.
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Thanks Ellie,for putting me and the record straight!I think we had our wires crossed!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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It's okay, easily done - this family is very confusing to say the least.
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It's okay, easily done - this family is very confusing to say the least.
Yes its very confusing,all this with Percival Frederick!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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It's okay, easily done - this family is very confusing to say the least.
Yes its very confusing,all this with Percival Frederick!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
I told you he was mysterious :)
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Is the child still living, I can only see one BC, for the Stoke on Trent area, with the mothers maiden name Ford, but she was born in 1926
No Sarah Ann was definitely born in 1900, and great Uncle George 1927, sadly he passed away in 1991.
It looks like he was named for his grandfather
The records for Dallow and Dallow might be at the archive office as Margp said but if the case was closed solicitors are only obliged to keep them for 7 years before they are destroyed destroyed they might not be anything to find
Willow x
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Guess what Dallow and Dallow are still going they moved to Waterloo Road
Willow x
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Guess what Dallow and Dallow are still going they moved to Waterloo Road
Willow x
Really? :) I feel an inquiry coming on
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I thought there might be ;D
http://www.dallowanddallow.co.uk/
Willow x
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I thought there might be ;D
http://www.dallowanddallow.co.uk/
Willow x
Thanks again :)
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How about this found on Ancestry
15.3.1964 - 'Ball - anyone knowing the whereabouts of Frederick Percival Ball (husband of Rita Ball) last heard of in 1949 at 23 Bursledon Pace, Purbrook, Portsmouth, when a bus driver with Southdown Motor Services Ltd or any issue of his, please communicate with Messrs Dallow and Dallow Solicitors of Lloyds Bank Chambers, Queen Square, Wolverhampton'
Willow x
Willow,
Can you tell me where on ancestry you found this please?
Thanks
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How about this found on Ancestry
15.3.1964 - 'Ball - anyone knowing the whereabouts of F P Ball (husband of R Ball) last heard of in 1949 at 23 Bursledon Pace, Purbrook, Portsmouth, when a bus driver with Southdown Motor Services Ltd or any issue of his, please communicate with Messrs Dallow and Dallow Solicitors of Lloyds Bank Chambers, Queen Square, Wolverhampton'
Can you tell me where on ancestry ?
The article is under heading
England, Andrews Newspaper Index Cards 1790 - 1976
Name: F P Ball
Spouse's Name: R Ball
Publication Date: 15 Mar 1964
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How about this found on Ancestry
15.3.1964 - 'Ball - anyone knowing the whereabouts of F P Ball (husband of R Ball) last heard of in 1949 at 23 Bursledon Pace, Purbrook, Portsmouth, when a bus driver with Southdown Motor Services Ltd or any issue of his, please communicate with Messrs Dallow and Dallow Solicitors of Lloyds Bank Chambers, Queen Square, Wolverhampton'
Can you tell me where on ancestry ?
The article is under heading
England, Andrews Newspaper Index Cards 1790 - 1976
Name: F P Ball
Spouse's Name: R Ball
Publication Date: 15 Mar 1964
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How about this found on Ancestry
15.3.1964 - 'Ball - anyone knowing the whereabouts of F P Ball (husband of R Ball) last heard of in 1949 at 23 Bursledon Pace, Purbrook, Portsmouth, when a bus driver with Southdown Motor Services Ltd or any issue of his, please communicate with Messrs Dallow and Dallow Solicitors of Lloyds Bank Chambers, Queen Square, Wolverhampton'
Can you tell me where on ancestry ?
The article is under heading
England, Andrews Newspaper Index Cards 1790 - 1976
Name: F P Ball
Spouse's Name: R Ball
Publication Date: 15 Mar 1964
Thank you :)
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Hi,
Just a quick update. I contacted solicitors Dallow & Dallow, unfortunately they're not able to assist as apparently they don't keep files after 15 years, after which they are shredded. Back to the drawing board again...
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I suppose it was to be expected after nearly 50 years
Willow x
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I suppose it was to be expected after nearly 50 years
Willow x
Yes I suppose so, it was worth a try.
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I quite agree ;D
I have been looking for Percival Fredericks about the right age who might tie in with our man as I am not convinced Ball is his surname
There is a Percival Frederick G Hancock born 1903 Plymouth (died 1962 Plymouth) who I cant find on the 1911 census who might fit. The ones from the Staffordshire area I have accounted all for
Willow x
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Thank you Willow.
I've been seeking Percy for sometime now and the thought did occur to me to as he is such a man of mystery. However I was talking to my mother and brother recently we were thinking about uncle George ( Percy's son) and the times when we used to visit him.
It came about that we remember uncle George finding a clipping in a newspaper around 1990 for a 90th birthday notice for a Percy Ball, apparently uncle George was querying whether this could have been his father. I plan a visit to central archives soon to try and find this clipping!
My feeling is that he 'disappeared' shortly after uncle George was born for reasons of his own, and probably moved to a different area and my even have remarried - possibly a bigamous marriage. Very uncertain as to whether he came from Staffordshire or not. I hope to have more of an insight when I've been to the archives.
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Percy Hancock I think I have found now so it isnt him
The clipping could prove interesting if you can find it I have looked at the deaths for a Percy that lived into his 90's but the only one close are Percival Albert (1899 - 1996 Kingston upon Thames) Thomas Percy (1899 - 1990 Cambridge) Percy Lionel (1902 - 1992 Andover) and a Percival Graham (1903 - 2000 Eastbourne)
Willow x
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Yes that's what I was thinking, to see what if any information can be found from the clipping.
Thanks
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Was the clipping in a Stafford area paper? also I forgot to ask what address Percy gave on the marriage certificate
Willow x
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Was the clipping in a Stafford area paper? also I forgot to ask what address Percy gave on the marriage certificate
Willow x
Hi Willow,
I believe it was a local paper, but I was only a small child at the time. The address on the marriage cert is a stoke on trent address, which ties in with the family.
Thanks
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Do you think it's possible that Percival had or used a different middle name before his 1927 marriage? Was he named as Percival Frederick on his son George's b/c
The only reason I ask is from his m/c you gave his father's occupation Master Butcher, name George
I know this is a bit of a long shot BUT
There’s a Percy Charles Ball born 1903 living Burton On Trent father’s name is Percy George occupation is a butcher
Percy Charles Ball Jan-Feb-Mar 1903 Burton upon Trent Staffordshire Volume: 6b Page: 434
1901 c RG13; Piece: 2647; Folio: 47; Page: 12
Percy G occ Butcher, Jemima Mary, son Thomas George Ball age 1
1891c RG12; Piece: 2196; Folio: 115; Page: 5
Percy G age 16 Butcher’s apprentice
1881c with his parents George & Maria Ball
Percy George Ball died Burton on Trent 1920
PGB of Stapenhill Derbyshire died 19 Feb 1920
Admin London to Jemima Mary widow Effects £10183 4s.
there is a marriage
1932 Burton
Percy C Ball to E A I Taylor (FreeBMD)
I'm not seeing a death for a Percy Charles / Percy C Ball there is one of the correct age which would match birth year 1943 Wallsall Percy Ball age 40 (1903)
If found I hope the news paper clippings provide more clues to your elusive Percival Frederick Ball
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Yes the Percy from Burton was one of many I looked at searching especially due to the fact his father was a Butcher.As you say the Butcher died in 1920 it is a possible as Percival F's father a George Ball(Master Butcher) is given as deceased on the marriage cert.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Interestingly there is a Percy Frederick Ball on the 1911 born 1890 who is a chauffer in Longdon
Willow x
He is given as 25 years old on the marriage cert.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
What if he was lying about his age on the marriage
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Fredereick P Ball married Rita O Benham 1943 Portsmouth
Willow x
It may be worth getting this MC, there may be some clues there
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I wondered if he was lying about his age too
Willow x
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Interestingly there is a Percy Frederick Ball on the 1911 born 1890 who is a chauffer in Longdon
Willow x
It may be worth checking this fellow out, right area and occupation
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Well if it was the same Percy who married the Benham he would have been quite a bit older than she was!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Well if it was the same Percy who married the Benham he would have been quite a bit older than she was!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
That's why it would be useful to look at that marriage, and my dad was 25 years older than my mom so it does happen :) :) :)
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I agree Ladyhawk, I do think it's very likely that our Percy changed his name around to suit, He clearly fully intended not to be traced, and he's done an extremely good job of being elusive, so far!
Thinking about it, I only have the information regarding George Ball on Percival's marriage certificate to Sarah, this may not necessarily be correct. It could be quite possible that the 'George' mentioned on the marriage cert isn't Percy's father but maybe another relation he'd named, or perhaps he didn't know his father very well and was told he was named George and was a master butcher?
As regard's Percival himself, I think he may have originated from outside the Staffordshire area, and may have left the area after leaving Sarah Ann. If I'm fortunate enough to find the clipping of the 'possibly' correct Percival Ball, I will hopeful have some clue to his origins and family.
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May be worth looking at nearby places, shiffnal, salop, Shropshire.
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That's worth trying at least - thank you :)
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My great grandad was Charles ball, he owned the butchers in stapenhill, my grandad was Frank Ball and my Uncle Harry run the butchers and abbitour. My dad is doing the family tree and he has mentioned the name jermima
Melissa
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Hi Melissa
I've not been on this site for a while.
I'm very interested to learn more about your links in the Ball family. It's a part of my tree that has always proved very difficult.
On Percival F Ball's marriage certificate ( to Sarah a Ford ) it states that his father was George Ball (master butcher) it also lists him as deceased in 1927 when the marriage took place. It gives Percivals occupation as a motor omnibus driver. They were living at an address in Fenton Staffordshire. DOES this match any of your records.
Thanks :)
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Hi Melissa
I've not been on this site for a while.
Neither has Melissa she was last active on the 22 August 2016 - if her email is still active should
receive notification of these posts :) :)
Edit - was the marriage certificate purchased of
F P Ball married R O Benham 1943 Portsmouth, to check details
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I can't help much with Percy but a few points I might be able to clarify. There was a Thomas Ball, shopkeeper in Fenton according to the 1896 directory. My father also worked for W G Ball colour manufactures based in Longton (the family lived out at Hilderstone). Myatt and Leese were both monumental masons and undertakers repectively. John Myatt was my godfather.