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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: tracey clarke on Wednesday 07 August 13 14:41 BST (UK)
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Believe my great great great grandmother was Catherine Carroll mother Bridget father Matthew who come over from Ireland before the census of 1861.
She was 25 in 1861 census married to a John Malt and had two children Thomas 2 and Mary Ann 7 months?
After John died I think she went on to marry a Henry Evans and they had a daughter Eliza Catherine who I think was born Sept 1861.
I believe at times that she worked in the Cotton Industry as well as Henry. Henry had died before the 1881 census. I wondered if it was work related.
Are there any museums, working mills, records / or information that I would be able to look at re the cotton industry.
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From Cheshirebmd
CARROLL Catherine
MOULT John
Chester, Civil Marriage
Cheshire West ROC/3/179
which ties in with this entry on freebmd
Marriages Jun 1858
Moult John
Carroll Catherine
Gt. Boughton 8a 476
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also from CheshireBMD
EVANS Henry
MAULT Catherine
Chester, St John
Cheshire West CE13/7/436
Sep qtr 1867
Evans Henry
MAULT Catherine
Gt. Boughton 8a 455
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Thank you very much for these.
Can I ask do you know if Catherine Carroll was in the 1851 census? I'm trying to tie up the possibilty that Bridget Carroll who is down as a lodger age 84 in the 1881 census is her mother as she was with the two children from the Moult / Malt marriage. It's also recorded that Bridget was born in Chester Man Ireland. I would love to find more info on that as I know that usually only the country is recorded.
Thanks.
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It is the 1871 which has Bridget living with Catherine & Henry
I think you need to get someone to decipher the place of birth of Bridget on the census, I don't think the transcript is right and I am hopeless on Irish place names. ;D
There are quite a few Catherine's in 1851 Cheshire, those I looked at were without parents.
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The 1867 marriage on 15 July - Henry was a widower (father John Evans, gardener) and Catherine was a widow age 33 (father Matthias Carroll, gardener). This may help track down Catherine's parents.
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Thank you to both. Fingers crossed will; let you know if I find anything.
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Still having some struggles with this line of research.
In the 1881 census I am not sure of where Catherine Evans is nor her daughter Eliza.Catherine originally from Ireland would be abt 44. I'm wondering if her husband Henry Evans died and she re -married. Eliza would be abt 13
Would appreciate some help / ideas if at all possible.
Thank you
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Just to remind myself who they were in 1871
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBJ9-V54
Henry Evans 40
Cathrine Evans 34
Bridget Carroll 84
Thomas Malt 12
Mary Ann Malt 10
Eliza Evans 1 yr 7 Mths
In case you are not aware FindMyPast has some Cheshire Non-conformist & Roman Catholic Registers
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Yes that's them in 1871 but I cant link them into the 1881 census. I have found some birth / marriage details in the non conformist records.
I had wondered if Catherine was now Catherine Armstrong 42 in Swallow St Stockport . There is an Eliza aged 13 with her.
However I have found another Eliza surname Evans born 1868 age 13 domestic servant but it says she was born Burwardsley Cheshire.
I have come across a Catherine Evans widow 45/48 from Ireland in the 1891 census St Pauls. I thought my Catherine should be 10 years older. No trace of Eliza who would have been 23.
Eliza is in Icklingham Suffolk in the 1901 census married name Ward. Her husband Alfred I believe was in the medical corps.
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If you have access to FindMyPast there is an Eliza that fits in the workhouse records
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Unfortunately I do not have access to that site but thanks for letting me know.
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Not seeing them in 1881 but could this be Eliza's marriage
Marriages Jun 1886
EVANS Eliza
Griffiths Adela
HICKS George Bertram
TOPHAM George
Chester 8a 517
George Bertram Hicks can be seen with Adela in 1891
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Eliza Evans married George Topham at Holy Trinity church Chester ..but father is JAMES Evans ...so wrong one ...?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQG4-CXJ
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Eliza Evans married George Topham at Holy Trinity church Chester ..but father is JAMES Evans ...so wrong one ...?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQG4-CXJ
Thanks Garstonite - I normally check familysearch. :) The only Eliza with George Topham I can see in 1891 that is near was born in Wales.
I think Eliza was in the workhouse in 1885 giving birth that record has the right name for father.
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Appreciate all the help. Thank you
From the last comment does that mean Eliza had a child in the workhouse? Would she have come out after that?
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It looks as though she did give birth and they appear to have left together. I can't see a record of her in 1891 though, I was hoping that was her marriage.
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Eliza was born in Hoole ,Chester - where / which Workhouse did she have her baby in ?...was it local to Hoole ??....( trying to establish if she left the area ...if not - she has to be somewhere local in 1881 census ??)
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Eliza was born in Hoole ,Chester - where / which Workhouse did she have her baby in ?...was it local to Hoole ??....
Hoole :)
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So common sense tells us Eliza Evans should be around Hoole in 1881 census ??...I wonder if Henry has died and Catherine has re married and Eliza has taken the new husbands surname ?....she would be 11 in 1881 census ....
1878 at St Johns Chester - Frederick Joseph Smith marries an Eliza Evans ...is this marriage worth researching ??
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Just mentioning it in case - the age is out though, she could have reduced it because of the lodger
1891 - Boughton Ward, Chester RG12/2861 f34 p62
22 Torvin Road
Catherine Evans 48 Head widow Charwoman bn Ireland
Joseph Nev... 47 lodger widower bn Waterloo, Liverpool
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In the 1881 census there is a Catherine Armstrong from Ireland living in Swallow St with several children - one is called Eliza. Whats the possibility that it could be them if Henry Evans has died and Catherine has remarried ?
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Henry Evans is mentioned on the 1885 workhouse record for Eliza if that is the correct Eliza
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In the 1881 census there is a Catherine Armstrong from Ireland living in Swallow St with several children - one is called Eliza. Whats the possibility that it could be them if Henry Evans has died and Catherine has remarried ?
I think this one can be discounted, Catherine Armstrong is also on the 1871 census with 3 year old Eliza, she was born in Stockport. Catherine's maiden name was Gilligan
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Thanks for all the help very much appreciated as I seem to be going no where with this.
If my Eliza was in the workhouse and destitute do I assume both her parents have possibly died?
She did have a half brother and sister Thomas Malt born abt 1859 and Mary Ann Malt born abt 1861. I assume that they were unable to help or possibly had died.
I have not read much about workhouses and girls giving birth there. Would Eliza have had to have got somewhere to go in order to leave?
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If my Eliza was in the workhouse and destitute do I assume both her parents have possibly died?
Henry is mentioned on her workhouse entry. (I still can't see him though)
She appears to have been admitted for the birth. As Henry is mentioned maybe she returned to him with the child.
I don't know much about workhouses either. My gt grandfather was born in one in 1861 though his mother had been living with her widowed father 8 weeks earlier. 10 years later he was there as his mother had now died and I have no idea where grandfather had gone
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Have sent you a PM.
On marriage certificates if the bride or groom's father was deceased would it say that on the record?
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Thank you for the PM :)
Sometimes it would mention that they were deceased but it was not a question that had to be asked by the clergy.
In the case of my gt g'father mentioned in my last post he named his father (same surname as his) and his occupation and stated he was deceased - all untrue.
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This is a real long shot but I think it's worth a mention
On the 1881 census there's a Kate Evans born Ireland 46 year old widow living at Chester St John.
RG11 Piece 3555 Folio 35 Page 13
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Thanks for the above.
Some other bits to throw into the pot. Re Eliza Evans in the workhouse and her newborn son George. I have found school records for George Evans on FS website. George Evans born 2/11/1885 Ridley Girls & Infant school.
George Evans 8/11/1885 mother Eliza Chester Boughton St Pauls School 1 Richmond Ct Spital Walk Cheshire. Event date 8/1/1891. Interestingly I believe Spital is mentioned in the w/hse record.
I am having trouble finding Eliza and George in the 1891 census.
I have found a death record for Catherine Evans, Chester Jun 1875 age 45. But cant seem to find Henry or Eliza in 1881 census.
Have found a death record for Henry Evans , Chester Mar 1892 age 64.
Maybe Eliza left Chester after Henry dies eventually marrying in Icklingham Suffolk 1894. On her marriage record it mentions that her father Henry was a coal porter.
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That is encouraging, at least it looks as though George survived.
I think you are right about Catherine's death, there is a RC burial that would fit but is doesn't give any helpful information. I can't see a burial for Henry.
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There is another record for George on FS dated 29 July 1895.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG31-F26
Added
Ignore this one don't think it's your George