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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: mrs.bee.5 on Wednesday 14 August 13 12:06 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Please delete this if inappropriate.
Was wondering if someone could possibly do a lookup for a Thomas McWilliams, Mary McWilliams, Elizabeth, James and possibly Annie, their children. They must have gone to America before heading onto Australia. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks..bee
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Hi,
Do you have any other information to help locate the family?
Dates of birth or dates you think they left Scotland? Also what relationship have these people to each other ? And do you know where they stayed?
Sorry for all the questions :) But any info you have will give Rootchatters something to work with.
I've just noticed the Immigration date of 1864 in the thread's title.You mention both America and Australia....where do you think the family went to in 1864?
Looby :)
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Hello,
Thank you for your quick reply, yes I didn't leave too much info. did I.
Thomas b. abt. 1821 , Ireland; Mary (BRENNAN) b. abt. 1826 Ireland m. 1846 Scotland, possible 3 children. Elizabeth, b. abt. 1846 Airdrie Lanark, James b. abt. 1849 Kilbirnie, Ayrshire; Annie b. abt. 1855 Scotland. Arrived in Australia 1864 (?). They were sponsors for Mary's brother James who came on the "Ida" in 1864. Hope this is more to go on, as I don't have a world sub. for A'y , I only have a part sub. Thank you again for any help or info. you may find. bee
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Bee...not what you mention but just in case it helps you with further info. There are other Scottish born children that you don't mention:
Mary 1855 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ9G-1X7
Thomas 1856 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ9G-1X7
Unnamed (stillborn or died at birth?) 1858 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ9G-1X7
Don't know what info you have on Thomas and wife Mary but an 1855 birth cert will give you lots of additional info that might be of help. The first year of official registration in Scotland, and BMDs ran over two pages of the the register for one year only. Lots of additional information included for that year only. For people with Irish origin, it should hopefully include where in Ireland the parents were from and details of their marriage for example.
Monica
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I've been trying to find the family on 1861 Census but so far - no joy.
That's not to say they aren't there. They could be and I've just not been able to locate them :-\
Or maybe they've already left the country.
What makes you think Bee that the family had gone to America before going to Australia? It seems an odd thing to do. Not impossible...just unusual I would think :-\
Looby :)
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Hi bee,
Really good advice from Monica ;) to download the birth certs for Thomas McWilliams & Mary Brannen's post 1854 children, particularly Mary 1855 with all the added info. The last (unnamed male) child from Monica’s link was born March 1858. From NSW BDM online http://tinyurl.com/ldpwqe5 it can be seen that Elizabeth McWilliams, daughter of Thomas & Mary (she shows in the 1851 census) died in Newcastle NSW in 1860 (Registration Number 4924/1860). If you can obtain that cert it will confirm (or not!) that she is the same girl which in turn will narrow down Thomas & Mary’s arrival in NSW to between ~April 1858 & 1860.
brigau
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Hello all,
Thank you for your much needed guidance, I will order the cert. online today, will let you know what I find out. Much appreciated and I think I should read about where one should start and things to do on the way with researching, any suggestions...bee
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I’m now completely click giddy but this entry looks like the right family, erroneously recorded as Williamson aboard the ship Wellington, arriving NSW April 1859: http://tinyurl.com/l6wsxls
The A*y record has a bit more info – Thomas came from Dungannon, Co Tyrone, parents; James & Catherine; father dead, mother living in Scotland. Mary was born Kirk (can’t read) Co Down, parents John & Ann, both dead. Children Elizabeth 13, James 10 & Ann 8 all born Airdrie, Lanark. Will send it on.
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Hello again,
You've all come through again, will TRY to add more to this info. you all seem to know where to look, I just seem to go round and round to nowhere! ( Poor me ha! ha! I'm dizzy). Will keep you posted if I need any more help.....thanks bee
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From the McWilliams embarkation record it looks like Mary Brannen came from Kircubbin, Co Down.
Page 8 of their arrival record in Sydney shows that the Wellington left Southampton 29th Nov 1858
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.asp?Page=NRS5316/4_4795/Wellington_1%20Apr%201859/4_479500229.jpg&No=8
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Hello,
Went on SP yesterday, downloaded 1855 b. of Mary McWilliams (after many credits) but no new info. only dates, names of parents, minister and sponsor. Only one sponsor who was Agnes (can't really decipher surname). Was on the S.C.A. births MP 69 11125 Glasgow Immaculate Conception list, if that means anything for further reference. Will now try and find some more, any suggestions? bee
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Hello again,
On P.8 of the embarkation form, on the left hand side, under deaths, is that our WILLIAMSON, Ann female, who d. in quarantine on voyage? Or is it another of my bloopers! wait to hear from you all.
bee
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Hi Mrs Bee,
There certainly seem to be a Williamson death listed but I don't see a first name? I think the name below reads Arnold??
Looking along the line it looks like Williamson died at 40 hours old and Arnold died at 5 days.
These to me look like newborns born onboard who did not survive :(
Below that are four words which to my eye read-
Birth mother Williamson female ??? ??? - which doesn't make sense.
Not sure about first 2 words!
Looby :)
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Just noticed the words "in quarantine" - don't know if they relate to the three deaths or the one for Carr?
Looking at the 40 hours and 5 days on the right of the page , if you look at the top of the page there are two columns- one male and one female . So Williamson and Arnold were boys. Carr was a 27 day old girl. That's how I read it. What a shame- three baby deaths :'( Though I don't suppose that would be anything unusual, especially on a long sea voyage.
So perhaps Mary Williamson gave birth to a boy and he died shortly after birth? Was she the only Williamson of childbearing age onboard?
Looby :)
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Birth omitted Williamson female ??
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Birth omitted Williamson female ??
Makes about as much sense as Birth mother Williamson female ;D ;D
But it does look like "omitted" when you see it enlarged!
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Think I've worked out what "birth omitted" means-
Every birth onboard has been registered with the family involved including the ones who sadly died on the voyage. But whoever recorded the list has omitted the Williamson birth! ;D
Well that's about as clear as mud ;D
Next error is the sex changes from a male birth to a female ;D. Think they were on the grog....
Looby :)
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The asterisk seems to relate to the "Deaths on voyage" listed above in the manifest. I'm guessing that instead of crossing out baby Williamson from the male column, the writer simply made an addendum to correct his error .......... but it could have been the rum.
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Here's an idea. Probably wrong :-X
Could the Williamson birth have been twins? Boy-died after birth, girl- survived voyage?
Looking at the last page it is noted that there were 5 male and 2 female births plus 1 female birth in quarantine. There were three deaths - 2 males and 1 female in quarantine. The number of births doesn't tally with the individual records - I make it 3 male births (4 if we include the Williamson baby) and 2 female (1 of them born in quarantine).
Were there any more children after they arrived in NSW, Mrs bee?
Or have I been on the grog? ;D
Looby
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I think the sun is well over the yard arm Looby ;) If we take the male Williamson child as a clerical error, I make 3 surviving children out of 7 births on board
Births: 4 male + 3 female
Deaths: 2 male + 2 female
Male Arnold born & died (5 days)
Male Aiken born & died
Female Williamson born & died (40 hours)
Female Carr born & died in quarantine
Female McKellar born in quarantine (survived)
Joseph Cawthorne born on voyage (survived)
Male Rogson born on voyage (survived)
Answering on behalf of mrs bee (sorry, bee but you’re probably asleep) The NSW BDM site shows only these McWilliam children with parents Thomas & Mary:
Elizabeth – died 1860
James – married, 9 children
Annie – married, 9 children
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Oh well that clears that up ;)
Not easy counting baby births on those records.
So poor Mary lost a baby in 1858 before sailing and then lost one onboard. Has already lost Mary born 1855 in Scotland (I presume) and then loses Elizabeth a year after arriving in NSW.
How sad, but as I said earlier probably not uncommon.
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There was also baby Thomas bpt 1856 New Monkland who did not survive, so just two children reaching adulthood out of seven born.
Travelling down from Airdrie + 122 days at sea from Southampton to Sydney and then on to Newcastle – that’s a long journey! Getting stuck on the mud in the Thames before fully under sail wouldn’t have helped moral much either: http://tinyurl.com/mzy3kfp Added to that is Mary’s journey from Co Down to Lanarkshire as a young girl – so many tales to tell, I hope her eighteen grandchildren got to hear them.
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Hello,
Hope you pair don't wake up with a hangover, all that rum (hic) and tomfoolery! I don't mind if you talk among yourselves, probably (it would) make more sense than if I tried to join in. Yes, I was having my beauty sleep while you two were yakking. thanks again...bee
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Hi bee,
I'm fine....don't know abouT Br1gau ;D
Just got a bit bamboozled by the 19th century handwriting yesterday.
But I think we got there eventually and as Br1gau points out the McWilliams/Williamsons had a horrendous journey to NSW and poor Mary and Thomas with all those lost children.
But dates have now established that the family travelled from New Monkland to Southampton in 1858 and then on to Australia, arriving in 1859. No time to go to America as per your original question.
Good luck with the rest of your research.
Looby :)
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Hello all who assisted me,
Still plugging along and finding out more as I go. Just wanted to thank you all again, you do some excellent researching. bee
Would like to add a smiley, will have to learn.
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Pleased your still making progress bee!
Haven't you got a row of smiley /sad/confused faces above the reply box.
Just click on one and symbols appear on your message but when the message is posted they magically transform into smiley Santas this month :D ;D
Looby ;)
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Hi bee,
:) :D 8) :) :D :) nice to hear of your progress!
brigau
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Hello again,
Just testing, ready for more of my many question. Safe and happy xmas and new year. :) ;) :D ;D 8)