RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: iwccc on Saturday 17 August 13 12:49 BST (UK)
-
How do you go about finding a disappeared relative? James Morrison Malcolm born 21st August, 1876 in Glasgow, Scotland - disappeared or jumped ship on way to Australia or maybe New Zealand. Relatives never heard of him again. Sister always said that she believed he was living in New Zealand.(no proof) Others believe he may have settled in Australia.
Don't know if he married or not. Maybe he fell overboard. (are there lists of people who fall overboard). Someone suggested he may have been on a ship called "The Royal" (no proof of this).
This is a family mystery. Any suggestions on how to find out what happened to James? (Morrison was his mothers surname) Thank you
-
Hi iwccc,
For the record - in case a 'suspect' is found to whom personal information can be compared....
What are the names of James' parents?
When & where is he last 'seen' in Scotland (or UK)?
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Sometimes family stories are wrong and sometimes there's a grain of truth in them...
When is the last time you've found James in Scotland? 1881 census? 1891 census? 1901 census? 1911 census? (this will give us a starting date for when he might have left the U.K.)
Have you found an occupation for him in any records?
-
duplicate
-
hi
you haven,t given any idea of era he went missing but I,ve found this gro marine death for a james Malcolm ship name William adamson age 27 year of death 1899 p 152 .
although the dates don,t match up but a possible all the same .
regards
trevor
-
Thanks Ambly, James parents were Walter (1851-1894) and Sarah (nee Morrison) 1856-1895. I have seen him on the 1881 and 1891 census - have found nothing since to date.
Cheers
-
Thanks Aghadowey, I have only found him on the 1881 and 1891 census - haven't found anything since. I have no occupation for him to date. Cheers
-
Thanks t mo,
Unfortunately I have no idea of when he may have gone missing. I am no familiar with 'gro marine death' Can you please explain. The ship you mentioned 'William Adamson' - do you know where it left from or where it was heading. Also how reliable is the age of death (1899)? Most grateful for your contribution.
-
Hi,
Can't help with your missing person, but with one of my Malcolm's I couldn't find any sign of them in one of the census records. They did turn up in the end, name had been transcribed as "Malecha".
Not much help I know, but sometimes have to think outside the square with names.
Cheers
KHP
-
Just a thought.......were his parents/mother alive in 1911?
If so, did the 1911 Census record state the children born to her alive and the number of those still living?
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Thanks Kiwihalfpint - must remember to check other transcription ideas of names. Cheers
-
Hi Ambly, No...James' father died in 1894 and his mother in 1895 (Scotland)
I have checked the 1881 and 1891 census.
The 1891 census shows the family as follows: Walter (father) Sarah (mother)
James 14 yrs. William 12, Walter 10, Charles 8, Sarah 4 and Robert 2.
James is recorded as a 14 year old scholar. So, I don't know his occupation. Did he go to sea as a seaman or was he on the ship to go to Australia/New Zealand etc.
I know Sarah and Walter came to live in Australia.
Will have to try and check the 1911 census next. Thanks for your help
-
hi
gro general records office , marine deaths are those that have died at sea either on board ship or drowning .
as to the William adamson I can,t find anything about her mostly I think as there was a shipbuilding family called adamson and one of them was a William adamson who was building ships on the tyne in this period also short bros also building on the tyne called one of there ships William adamson but again I haven,t found any specific info on it .
regards
trevor
-
Others believe he may have settled in Australia.
Have you considered posting a request on the Aussie Board?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=165.0
There's a mention in this cutting of a James M Malcolm
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/29841681 The Advertiser, 16 Oct 1930
RChat's South Australia Resources Board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=280572.0
And there's this one too http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368728.0
Cheers, JM
-
hi all
just had a look in new Zealand death records and although 26 james malcolms with various middle names if the birth year we have is correct the none of the 26 are a close match for this james , so looked at archway nz for a general look up and the only records that may have some bearing are for probate several james malcolms show but problem is the records in question can only be viewed in archive office ! .
so looked in aus archives in name search and couldn,t see any close records , the biggest problem is that with his name , james Morrison Malcolm they could all be surnames or Christian names or middle names the computer doesn,t distinguish between them so throws up everything with any of the names , so no definite hits .
anyone else want to try it may be me doing something wrong .
regards
trevor
ps also looked in papers past again nothing comes up
-
Thanks t mo, I appreciate you looking in New Zealand & Australian records.I agree it makes searching so much longer when the names are all possible surnames as well as Christian names.
It seems James' disappearance still remains a mystery. Would it be possible to find passenger or crew lists of ships leaving England/Scotland? Maybe he is listed on a ship - a least we would then know when he left UK and where he was heading. Are there any shipping 'experts' out there??
-
When did Walter and Sarah come to Australia and where did they go?
Unfortunately losing contact with family after emigration was all too common. NZ and Australia newspapers often had adverts where family members tried to re-establish contact, sometimes only knowing that a person was supposed to have sailed on ship X into port Y some years ago.
As to the accuracy of death certificates - when people don't know the details then they are just put down to the best of the informants' knowledge. So age could be off, other details missing or incorrect. If he was going by plain James Malcolm then he might be nearly impossible to find. If he died in Australia or NZ (or aboard the William Adamson), but the people registering his death didn't know much about him, then the records could be sparse enough that you won't be able to prove it's him. e.g. it could just be the death of a James Malcolm, born Scotland, with an approximate age and no parents' names.
Lists of passengers leaving are on findmypast among other places - lists for crew are trickier, you could try http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/clip-crew-lists but I don't see any obvious hits for him.
-
hi all
I,ve taken the liberty of asking our resident expert on crew matters to take a look if anyone can find james as a seaman he will .
regards
trevor
-
Thanks jorose, Sarah came to Sydney, Australia in 1913 and married William Horsfall. Walter also lived in N.S.W. Australia. Thanks for the suggestions. Much appreciated.
-
Thanks t mo, Will wait for the 'expert' on crews opinion. Your help is greatly appreciated.
-
Brother William also came to Australia and was killed in the war. Lance Corporal William Malcolm killed in France in July 1916. Can see digitised service record on http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/
Here are some memoriam notices - one from Walter and Kate and one from Sarah and William Horsfall and parents-in-law ... but no mention of James.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article15759538
regards,
Ros
adding : death notices http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article15683308
-
Here is a direct link to William's service record
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=8211069
He was married to Hellen and his parents-in-law were McDonald's (so I guess he married Hellen McDonald)
regards,
Ros
-
Walter died in 1969 and his death notice is in Sydney Morning Herald 5 Aug 1969
MALCOLM Walter - August 3 1969 at his residence 9 Boorea Street, Lidcombe, dearly loved husband of the late Catherine Malcolm, loved father of James (deceased), W, C, S, E, B, A, G, M (!) fond father-in-law, dear grandfather and great-grandfather of their families. Dear brother of Sarah aged 89 years. At rest. Private cremation.
Will pm the names in case you don't have them
regards,
Ros
adding : probate packet for Walter Malcolm at NSW state records (can photograph for you next week if interested) http://search.records.nsw.gov.au/items/1311234
-
Sarah died in 1975 and her death notice appeared in Sydney Morning Herald on 20 June 1975. Sorry I hope I am not going too far off-track but thought the death notices of his siblings may give a clue to Jame's whereabouts (but no :( )
HORSFALL Sarah June 18, 1975 at hospital late of 11 O'Reilly St, Parramatta beloved wife of the late William Henry, dearly loved mother and mother-in-law of S and R, M and J, B and F, L and G, much loved stepmother of Alice(deceased) and F, Bill and Eva (both deceased) J and C, dear grandmother and great-grandmother of their children, aged 88 years. In God's care.
Will pm the names
regards,
Ros
Probate packet at NSW state records http://search.records.nsw.gov.au/items/1523455
-
Hi rosball, Thank you so much for all the information that you have posted. Much appreciated.
The SMH of 5th August has added a bit of confusion to my search. I'm not sure who Catherine (Mrs. E. Sutherland), Syd, Effie (Mrs. R. Warner) etc. are? I will have to try and figure this one out.
Thanks again
-
Hi iwccc,
They were the children of Walter Malcolm and his wife Catherine.
You can probably find their marriages here http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
I pm'd the names as they may still be living.
cheers,
Ros
adding : I'm sorry that maybe death notice for wrong Walter Malcolm ... just rechecking...
Seems to be correct
NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_bdsch.html
reg# 30779/1969 1969 MALCOLM Walter, father Walter, mother Sarah, Parramatta
-
Hi rosball, There is still no evidence for "James"' death. (Don't even know if he married but I am leaning toward him not marrying)
James' sibblings were Walter m. Catherine/ Sarah m. William HOrsfall/ Robert m. Mabel / William m. Helen / Charles m. Kate.
To confuse things: Walter/Catherine had: James, Walter, Catherine, Charles, Euphemia, William Allan, Gordon, Mary M. (all similar names to their aunts/uncles).
Still trying to find him as a passenger/seaman who either died on board or jumped ship in either Australia or New Zealand. Will we ever know?!?!?!?
-
Do you have Robert's and Charles' death notices? Perhaps they will mention a brother James. Were they in NZ?
cheers,
Ros
-
Hi rosball, No I don't have Robert or Charles' death notices. Robert was born in Scotland in1889 and died in Sydney, Aust. on 26th June, 1968. (Robert married Mabel M.E.Watson in 1916)
Charles was born in 1882 in Scotland and I believe died in Scotland in 1952. I don't think Charles ever married.
I don't believe either of them were in New Zealand.
I know James was mentioned in the 1891 census aged 14.
As yet I haven't been able to find a passenger/seaman/lost at sea list. Thanks for helping
-
Death notice for Robert in SMH 22 June 1968
MALCOLM Robert Henry on June 20 1968, at hospital, of Concord, beloved husband of Mabel and loved father of I,P, and R father-in-law of C, G and J, and dear grandfather of G,J and R.
will pm the names
cheers,
Ros
-
Sorry we haven't found any mention of James.
Did the expert on crews come on board? I'm guessing this was seaweed who seems to have given lots of helpful info about other crew members and their service and deaths etc.
I'm wondering if local (Scottish) newspapers would be a better source for reports of Jame's death...?
cheers,
Ros
-
Hi rosball, No as far as I can see the 'crews expert' hasn't contributed to date. Do you know how to access the Scottish newspapers from Australia? Thanks again
-
Yes you can access some online by getting a reader's ticket from National Library and/or a reader's ticket from your state library.
I have both :) - I'll give it a go.
cheers,
Ros
-
Sorry I didn't find anything from the *limited* newspaper search of scottish newspapers :(
I did download mother Sarah's death cert from Scotland's People (had a few spare credits) - but it didn't show much - no mention of children at all. I guess I have been spoiled by looking at Oz (victorian) death certs which list all the children and their ages, locations and whether deceased or not.
So sorry just reporting failure ... (pm me if you want Sarah's death cert)
cheers,
Ros