RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: wingtuns20 on Monday 02 September 13 17:45 BST (UK)
-
Hi I am doing family history for my partners mother.
I have gone down tree via the below
Richard Stanley Mason b. 1888 d. 1938
William C Mason b. 1857 M. Emily Ellen Tietjen
Robert George Mason b. 1819 d. 1889 he was a gunpolisher then gunmaker
Robert Mason b. U/K he was a Gunmaker as well? No other info about him. I read about the Robert Mason who went to the USA but u/k if linked.
It appears Robert was with a Mary u/k as they had the following children......
Edward 1823 (whom M. Anna Ostler)
Josh 1825
Allis 1827
I found them on a 1841 Census living on their own..?
All the early Masons as above were living in the Whitechapel/Tower Hamlet area.
-
Here is the family in1861
RG9 273 57 16
Robert G MAson 41 widower Gun polisher empl 6 men, 2? boys bn Whitechapel
Robert G 11 bn Whitechapel
Joseph 9 bn Bethnal Green
Jonathan 7 bn Bethnal Green
William C 4 bn Bethnal Green
+ 3 servants
-
And 1851
HO107 1546 57 15
55 Chamber Street Whitechapel
Robert George 31 gunmaker bn Aldgate
Amelia wife 26 bn Shadwell
Robert George 1 bn Whitechapel
Looks like a second marriage for RG
Marriage
14 MArch 1847 Limehouse St Anne
Robert George Mason full age Widower, gun maker, of Limehoue father Robert Mason deceased
to
Amelia Holloway Jones, full age, spinster of Limehouse, father Jonathan Jones, cooper
witnesses Jonathan Jones and Sarah Ann Hayblin?
-
Heres his first marriage, which confirms his father Robert was also a gunmaker
13 Jan 1839 St Helens Bishopsgate
Robert George Mason full age bachelor gunmaker of 26 Gt St Helens father Robert Mason gunmaker
to
Elizabeth Elinor Lewis full age spinster of 26 Gt St Helens father William Lewis deceased
Witnesses George Lewis and Elizabeth Hockley
-
Christening
12 Dec 1819
(born 28 Nov 1819)
St Botolph, Aldgate
Robert George Mason, son of Robert George and MAry, of Three King COurt, Gunmaker
-
Hi thanks for the information, I am hoping to find out who the father was.
I think he was a Robert George Mason (Gun maker) also but i don't know when he was born it must have been the late 1700s?
One of the sons Baptism records of an Edward, his mother was named Mary but I dont know the surname!
It stated on the transcript father........
Day:30
Month:October
Year:1822
Forename:Edward
Othernames:
Surname:Mason
Fathers forenames:Robert
Fathers occupation:Gunmaker
Mothers forenames:Mary
Birth date:23/09/1822
Address:Castle Alley
Location of church:Whitechapel
Parish:St MaryChurch address:Whitechapel High StreetEntry
No:2822Source
Ref:X024/093Transcriber
Note:Original Note:Record source:Docklands Ancestors
Find out more Data provider:Docklands Ancestors LtdTranscriptions © Docklands Ancestors Ltd
-
Thanks for the extra detail on Robert Masons birth in 1819.
-
I found a 1841 Census.....
Address: Chamber Street, St Mary Whitechapel, Tower Hamlets
MASON, Robert M 21 1820 Middlesex VIEW
MASON, Ellen F 22 1819 Middlesex VIEW
MASON, Edwd M 18 1823 Middlesex VIEW
MASON, Josh M 16 1825 Middlesex VIEW
MASON, Allis F 14 1827 Middlesex VIEW
No mother or father on there?
-
I saw that too.
No relationships are given on 1841.
Iwondered if Ellen was actually Elizabeth Elinor, Robert (bn 1819)'s wife. We know he married 1839, so unless she has already died we wouldnt expect to find them together on 1841.
What we dont know is whether the next generation back ,Robert and Mary are still alive or not. We know Robert senior has died by Robert juniors second marriage in 1847.
Lots moore sleuthing to do!
-
A slight aside - but did you know Robert George jnr (bn 1819) had a third marriage?
7 July 1862 Charlton St Thomas
Robert George Mason 42 widower gunsmith of St Thomas Woolwich , father Robert George mason gunsmith
To
Frances Margaret Jones 28 spinster of St Thomas Woolwich, father Jomathan Jones , cooper
Witnesses Jonathan Jones amd Sarah Jones
She appears to be sister of second Wife, Amelia Holloway Jones.
-
Here is sister, Alice (Allis) 's marriage
13 Oct 1845, Limehouse St Annes
Moses Charles Sharp full age, bachelor, gunmaker, of Limehouse, father Thomas Sharp ,dead
Alice Mason , full age, spinster, of Limehouse, father Robert George Mason, dead
Witnesses Robert George Mason and Sarah Harris
And brother Joseph's marriage
5 Nov 1854, Limehouse St Anne
Joseph Mason full age, bachelor, gunmaker, of Commercial Rd, father Robert Mason gunmaker
To
Anne Harley Evans full age spinster of Commercial Rd, father Thonas Evans, cooper
Witnesses Michael Harley and Ann Williams(made mark)
-
I gave you Robert George's chr on 1819, Aldgate.
The younger siblings were all chr in Whitechapel St Mary
Edward 30 Oct 1822 (bn 23 Sep) son of Robert and Mary, gunmaker, of Castle Alley
Joseph 25 May 1825 (bn 19 Feb) son of Robert and Mary, gunmaker, of Castle Alley
Alice 20 October 1826 (bn 2 Oct) dtr of Robert and Mary, gunsmith of Castle Alley.
So - for Robert senior (father to this lot) it seems you need to look for a burial, probably in Whitechapel St Mary, or next choice would be Limehouse St Annes (but may be neither) between 1826 (chr of last child) and 1845 (declared dead on Alice's marriage)
-
Hmmmm . . . I wonder?
There is a burial at St Mary's Whitechapel, 20 May 1827, of a Robert William Mason, age 54 , of Castle Alley.
now that is the addrress on the christenings the previous years.
Possibly -
Either this should read Robert George, and this is his death. Meaning he had his children later in life, possibly Mary being a second wife, or he just married later in life to a younger woman
Or
This is a different Robert, possibly even Robert George's father, who was living with them in Castle Alley. In which case, whereis Robert George's death?
Need to keep an open mind on this for the time being
-
The plot thickens .. .
Marriage
Whitechapel St Mary
17 Oct 1811
Robert William Mason, widower of this parish to Mary Gains spinster of this parish
The jury is still out as to which generation this person is.
I was thinking at first it was the father of the children Rob, jos, alice, Ed, , and that because he died when they were babies they just got his middle name wrong.
But I see that at Rob jnrs chr, he did use the middle name George.
So I am now wondering if indeed this is Robt Georges father - and that he also married a Mary (for his second+ marriage
-
Thats really interesting! I noticed a Robert William Mason but was unsure how they fitted in. See if i can find out any other info! I am sure the father must of been in the gun trade also, it appears there was a large gun factory in that area.
-
Beware, there is another Robert William around, (shoreditch area if I remember rightly) that I came across in passing. Nothing to do with guns and not linked as far as I can see.
Plenty of Masons about.
You might find looking in old directories useful to see if any are in there. Might help sort out the generations!
Father might not have been in the gun trade -someone must have been the first! Might be worth researching the gun factory to see when it opened. Though a gun smith could just work for himself ( as we saw on 1861)
-
Robert, Edward, Alice and Joseph does it say they were born in London I found a Joseph and Ann (whom he married) on census stated that this one was born in Scotland. probably another Mason family?
-
See Reply #11
Christened in Whitechapel
Same address for all the christenings, so unlikely they popped up to Scotland for a birth!
Guess there are numerous Joseph and Ann Mason couples around - not particularly unusual combination!
-
Thanks for the update!
-
It appears the below.
There is a burial at St Mary's Whitechapel, 20 May 1827, of a Robert William Mason, age 54 , of Castle Alley.
now that is the addrress on the christenings the previous years.
He was possibly born 1773.?
-
Robert Hunt Mason
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 25 September 1737 St. Mary Spital Square Church, Tower Hamlets, Middlesex, England
residence: Tower Hamlets, Middlesex, England
father: Thomas Mason
mother: Rebekah
Name Robert Hunt Mason
Gender Male
Christening Date 25 Sep 1737
Christening Place St. Mary Spital Square Church, Tower Hamlets, Middlesex, England
Birth Date
Birthplace
Death Date
Name Note
Race
Father's Name Thomas Mason
Father's Birthplace
Father's Age
Mother's Name Rebekah
Mother's Birthplace
Mother's Age
Indexing Project (Batch) Number I00983-7
System Origin England-EASy
GS Film number 597794
Reference ID bk 1
-
Not quite following!
We got as far as Robert William, bn 1773 unknown where, dying 1827 - who was living at the same address as your ancestor Robert George. We suggested this was possibly RG's father - but as yet there is no evidence to support this. He could either be father of RG (bn1819) if he had his children later in life and if the middle name was wrong (RG's father was another RG) Or he could POSSIBLY be RG(1819) 's grandfather. I.e the father of the RG we know nothing about. But we dont know. He could have been an uncle for example - the father of thge RG we know nothing about could be something else, but he had a brother called Robert William, for example.
So .... Not sure how this Robert Hunt Mason bn 1737 fits in! (Just a warning - this looks like it has been copied and pasted from another site. That isnt allowed, we need to type out the relevant info ourselves)
You need to work methodically one step at a time.
At the moment you need to find out a bout Robert G's dad. All we know is that he had a wife Mary at some time, and christened 4 children, first in Aldgate and others in Whitechapel between 1819 and 1826, and he was a gunmaker living in Castle Alley.
Until we find his parents, we cant move on. As I said, his Dad might not be a Robert at all - even if they kept using that name, he might be a younger son and it might be his older brother who got the name Robert!
As you get further back it is always harder, and may take years and years of searching, piecing bits together, etc, before you can be sure you have the right person. Also, what is on the internet is limited. It is a great tool, but is not exhaustive - so if you rely on what is there you may well miss the correct person and go off on a wrong line.
Areas you could look at, to try and find more, are directories, or wills (pre 1858 can be trricky, try National Archives site)
-
Thanks for the info all noted. it is tricky as there is alot of Masons around that time?
-
Not an unusual name.
And if RG wasnt born locally, but moved to London from elsewhere, then there are millions around!
-
Just spotted this
Just wondered if he might possibly be the Robert George, father of Robert George, Edward, Joseph and Alice
But then I remembered that one was dead by 1845 (Alice's marriage) so it cant be
But I'll pst it anyway - another Robert George Mason in Whitechapel for you! Will need lots of research to see if he is linked or not.
DeathJan/Feb/Mar 1873
Whitechapel 1c 253
Robert George Mason age 75
-
Not looking like him
Seems to be married to a Sarah in prev censuses, which takes us to a marriage in 1823 in Stepney to Sarah Hammersley, when he was a bachelor. So not the one christening children around that time with the wife Mary.
-
Be good if this was connected.......
ID: I6402
Name: Robert MASON
Sex: M
Birth: 7 APR 1757 in Stepney, White Chapel, London, England
Death: 25 SEP 1849 in Bell County Kentucky
Burial: Mason Cemetery, Bell County, Kentucky
Occupation: Gunsmith
Note: Betsy Mason's father was Robert Mason, who was born in England. Robert Mason was one of the brave Patriots who fought
Note: against Great Britian to help the New England colonists during the Revolutionary War.
Note:
Note: Robert Mason was born in Stepney Parish near St. Mary White Chapel, the poorest section in London, on April 7, 1757.
Note: The area was made famous in the 1800s because of the murders of Jack the Ripper.
Note:
Note: Some sources have his death and burial as: 25 Sep 1849, Clear Creek, Knox Co., KY
Note: br. Mason Cem., Clear Creek, Knox Co.
Note:
Note: In 1775 Mason left home and boarded a ship called the Adventurer as an Indentured Servant along with two other young
Note: men from Stepney. These two lads were William EVANS, age 19; and John COLLINS, age 25. It is very possible that all
Note: three young men were related. All were indentured to sponsers in America to repay their passage aboard ship. It is
Note: interesting to note that Robert was listed as being a gunsmith; there was a large arms factory in Stepney at the time.
Note: John COLLINS was a carpenter, while William EVANS was a gardener. Upon his arrival in Virginia, Robert served his
Note: indenture in Hampshire county--now located in West Virginia. . Upon arrival in Virginia, Mason moved to Hampshire
Note: County Virginia to begin his work as an Indentured servant for the next 3 years.
Note:
Note: After finishing his indenture, Mason joined the Virginia 11th regiment under the command of Col. Buford in 1779. On May
Note: 29, 1780, Mason participated in the battle of Waxhaw near Buford SC.
Note:
Note: At Kings Mountain five months later, over 300 Tories were killed mostly after the British surrendered in response to
Note: what happened at the battle of Waxhaw.
Note: Mason barely escaped with his life. This would be the last battle he would participate in. He was discharged in 1780.
Note:
Note: A few lines from his own words - enlisted Jan. or Feb. 1779 ; 11th Reg. Virgina ; Col. Abraham Buford ; Cap. Andrew
Note: Wallace (who had a brother named Adam); Lt. Marks ; John Proctor, Orderly Sgt. "in the spring marched to Charlotte,
Note: Mecklenburgh, Camden, & Santee. Col. Washington crossed the Santee overtaken by British under Tarleton; battle ensued;
Note: fought May, 29, 1780"
Note:
Note: In 1783, Mason met Mary King and married her later that year. They would have 9 children from this union.
Note:
Note: On April 25, 1849, Mason died at the age of 92. Before he died he presented his sons the land on the promise they would
Note: take care of Mary, his wife. He also had one final request. He wanted to be buried in the cellar of his home. Mason’s
Note: home stood at the present day site of the Mason family cemetery. A gravestone now marks the spot where Mason was
Note: buried.
Note:
Note: For years, Mason was not approved as a patriot because he had lost his discharge papers some 50 years before and was
Note: unable to receive a pension because of this.
Note: In 1995 Descendents of Robert Mason proved he was a patriot by showing that Mason knew all the names of the soldiers in
Note: Buford’s company something he couldn’t have done if he hadn’t been there, and did a DAR graveside service for him to
Note: honor him as a patriot. In 2005, the General Joseph Martin SAR chapter honored him with a SAR graveside service to
Note: honor him as a patriot as well. In 2006, DAR again refused to accept Mason as a Patriot because he had been turned
Note: down by the pension board because he couldn’t find his discharge papers. Descendents of Robert Mason have taken the DAR
Note: society to court in hopes of getting this decision overturned.
Note: http://www.josephmartinchapter.org/mason.html
-
I'd say he probably is connected - occupation gunsmith.
Dont know where the info came from - needs checking out in the parish registers first.
Would be worth contacting the 'descendents' mentioned (I assume that is where the info has come from) to see who this person's parents were ( they must have that if they have seen the parish register for his christening) and what siblings he had, and any other info. And how much has been confirmed from other sources . Beware, the details in tbe story may not be correct and should not be taken as fact unless confirmed as far as possible. These people may have grabbed at any random person from the internet with the same name and 'claimed' their birth as the right one, without doing any further research to confirm it. These things happen all to often . But here's hoping they are concientious researchers and have looked into it all properly.
-
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=7999626
Interesting his wife was named Mary.
-
http://microscopist.net/MasonRG.html this is Roberts (b. 1819) first son born 1849.?
"His father, Robert William Mason, worked in the gun-making trades as a finish polisher. He was evidently quite successful at that occupation, as the family retained live-in servants. Robert George Mason was the first child, born during 1849 in the Whitechapel area of London. His mother died in 1856, possibly as a consequence of giving birth to the family’s fourth child.
The 1871 census found Robert George boarding with a gunsmith in Enfield. Most of their neighbors were also involved with gun-making, although one man next door was a sword-maker. Robert, however, was an “optician”, possibly working for a nearby telescope or microscope manufacturer.
In addition to Robert’s upbringing, his later writing and advertisements indicate strong, practical knowledge of brass and iron work. Figure 6 illustrates advertisements from Mason in which he offered unfinished brass parts such that enterprising people could build their own microscopes, offered advice on assembling/repairing a key microscope component, and applied for a metalworking lathe. In addition, he published advice on giving brass a black finish, coating a mirror with mercury and silver, soldering gun-metal, case-hardening iron and many other aspects of metalworking."
-
Hallo all Whitechapel related Masons. Gun polishers/gunlock polishers/gun makers.
I am in direct line of Robert William Mason to Edward Mason b 1823 married Anna Ostler to Edward Mason b 1861 to Edward William Mason b 1890 to me.
I have researched whole family from 1740. Robert William married twice. First to Elizabeth Virgin.
Cant find her death as so many Elizabeth Mason death. Then RW married Mary Gains then lived in Castle Alley, Whitechapel. he died 1827 and Robert George, Edward, Joseph and two sisters lived in Prescot Street. Edward Married Anna Ostler (from Devon) 1857. Not found in 1861 census but their first daughter also Anna was born 1859 so we know the address where they were at that time. Later they lived Gloucester St, MEOT. till Anna died 1867. Any body want to know more best to make contact some how.
I would like to contact any so as to further the story. PM
-
As far as I can ascertain and using my Mason family notes left by my aunts and uncles most of previous FH previously posted by lizb and wingtuns is correct. My line goes back via my father Edward William b 1890 whose father was Edward Mason (m Anna Ostler) whose father was Robert William from his marriage to Mary Gains. That much is certain and family knowledge.
Robert William and Robert George were Gun Polishers, Gunlock Polishers and later RG was Gunsmith. Edward carried on this trade early in his marriage but later became a cutler.
I have research the Gun trade of the times and it appears that Gun Polisher refers only to the trigger and loch of a gun. They would do this work in refining the inside to very set measurements on probably a military contract and then they would send their work to other manufacturers like Lee Enfield. They are not known to have made complete guns.
The Mason-Ostler marriage had Anna, Edward, George Robert and Joseph. This Edward tried gun work but soon gave it up and assemble bicycles which he sold in a shop in Bethnal Green. George Robert (sometimes in censuses as R.G.) Anna married a Benjamin Stacey was was a Master Gunsmith. he died in 1897 and Anna carried on till 1907.. Joseph was a electrical engineer. He can be found on 1911 census with 9 kids but family story is he left that wife to go to another woman in Brighton area but we have lost him. He is said to have made "What the butler saw" seaside slot machines?
Would love to make connections to any of the lines I have not yet found.
PM
PM
-
Hope this line of Mason FH research has not gone dead.
I would love to open it up again with news from any of Joseph Mason b 1825ish Castle Alley, Whitechapel . He was in 1851 census and then married after when he has disappeared I suspect emigrated but where?
Similarly Joseph Mason born 1865ish in Gloucester Road, Mile End OT. He was still in 1911 census with having had 9-10 children (not sure as to exact number) but then disappeared from family knowledge to Brighton or Bournemouth. Not easy to track but said to have had possibly two more children with second woman. Not known if he married her but was not divorced from first wife.
As I am last in line from Robert William-Edward-Edward. Edward William Mason line I would be keen to meet/talk with Masons from other parts of this family.
PM :o
-
I am just trying to see if there is any more life in this chain of Mason family.
Can anybody come up with anything about Joseph Mason b 1827 Castle Alley. Was with brothers in 1851 census and I think married probably about 1860 but is not on 1861 census so I wondered if he emigrated.
Can somebody in say Us/Canada or Australia/New Zealand come up with anything.
PM
-
I am just hoping this Mason, gunlock polishers of Castle Alley Whitechapel line is not dead.
Still looking for any info on Joseph Mason b 1827.Whitechapel
Also Joseph Mason b 1864 MEOT.
both these lines are of interest.
Funny its both Josephs that have gone awol if you see what I mean?
PM :-\ :-* :'(
-
Hi I looked at the Mason family as my partners mums maiden name was Mason.
She descended from Robert G. Mason b.1819 (Josephs brother b. 1825)
This was in a text someone emailed me -
Who has done a really good search into the family :)
I think this is in relation to Joseph b. 1854 - Robert George died in 1889 aged 69. It was in fact 27/Jan/1899 and took place at 39, St Stephens Road, Bow. His son Joseph was present at the death. Cause of death is described as “Congestion of lungs and chronic bronchitis”. This was the same cause as his brother Edward and it begs the question...was the gun polishing trade subject to this cause? . However his standing in the Occupation column of the death certificate is stated as “Gentleman” so maybe he had retired by this time. The son Joseph was living in Leytonstone.
I noticed the Earlier Masons were Silkweavers.
On this file is a John Mason named as a former Fifth Monarchist radical
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CF0QFjAJahUKEwjQ9sDT4IPJAhWMmh4KHeYSBkc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brh.org.uk%2Fsite%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F11%2FTHE-SPITALFIELDS-SILK-WEAVERS.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGq97bQqgxNJRz_w0ymUrd0aMsqZQ&sig2=8WU0_XSkNj396rus1iGtcg
-
You are probably right with the Silk Weavers but more research is needed. Did Edward if Spitalfields suffer through it all.
I read the document briefly but will have to go back through it again later.
I would just like to find Joseph son of Robert William after 1860. He must have gone oversees but the records for that period are lost.
I might find if he's gone to Oz from a contact there but I don't have one in America.
P.M
-
I am descended from Robert William MASON gunsmith/Polisher through his son William Robert (bapt 1797) also gunsmith who came to NSW in 1822. Love to share info.
Carl