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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Peggy13 on Tuesday 03 September 13 01:05 BST (UK)
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Robert James Beggs was born Oct 30, 1879 in Grange, Co. Antrim. According to familysearch, his parents were William John Beggs and Jane Cunningham. William John died in Ballynashee. I would like to know the father of William John and thought it should be on his marriage record probably in the 1870s. Thanks for any help.
Peggy
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There are five William Beggs listed in BALLYNASHEE townland in 1862, with
Map refs 7A, 7B, 7C, 8A ,8B in Griffiths valuation see http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index
There are several other Williams living elsewhere in Co Antrim
Have you searched the wills etc at PRONI
good luck onwards JimG
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Thank you Jim for this information. I have found the will of William John on Proni and I am fairly sure it is the correct one as probate was granted to Robert James Beggs. However, there are no images online to actually see the will and verify that the wife was Jane Cunningham. Routinely, the will would not have William's father's name and that is why I was looking for the marriage. William died Sept 30, 1931. I did check the 1901 and 1911 censii and did not find William John there, hoping that his father just might be living with him.
Peggy
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First problem is finding the marriage record- did a search for Begg*/Cunningham on UHF site and no result for William & Jane's marriage. Perhaps someone else will be able to locate it.
There are lots of Wills for Beggs, Ballynashee in PRONI Will Extracts- might be worth ghoing through them all and seeing what could link in.
Here's the correct link to Griffith's Valuation- there are not five William Beggs in the townland of Ballynashee but multiple listing for the name (7A/B/C, 8A/B are all part of one holding)-
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
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I note from the 1911 census that William John’s daughter Elizabeth was born in America, when William John would have been about 26. Could he and Jane have married there? That might be why the marriage isn’t showing up in records in Ireland.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Rashee/Ballynashee/107501/
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If Elisabeth was born c1876 in U.S. and Robert James in 1879 Co.Antrim it may be difficult to find the family in U.S. without knowing at least the state when they were living.
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A possiblity? Jane daughter of William J. & Jane Beggs born 1876 Philadelphia-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBB1-8FW
There's a William J. Beggs, carpenter, at 925 So. 13th St., Philadelphia in 1875 directory.
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Thank you everyone for all your help. I did look at the Griffith's Valuation and did find William Beggs in Ballynashee with the 5 pieces of property. The will on Proni for William John Beggs stated he was from Ballynashee, farmer. The 1911 census for the only William John was also in Ballynashee. Elizabeth was age 35 born in America and the Eliza on familysearch was born 1875 so right age with right parents names - too bad they didn't give Jane's maiden name and that would have really been a done deal. William was a carpenter in Philly but could have changed occupation. Seems to all fit. Robert James was born in 1879, Grange. Is Grange in Ballynashee?
Thanks again for all the help.
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Is Grange in Ballynashee?
Ballynashee is in the parish of Rashee. The adjacent parish is Grange of Doagh, so possibly that’s the place of birth. There are however several other places in Co Antrim with Grange in their name so you cannot exclude them without further evidence. (Grange generally indicated a place was Church land at one time).
http://www.thecore.com/cgi-bin/iresrch
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Thank you Elwyn. That is good to know, especially that the parish of Grange of Doagh is next to the parish of Rashee. I do know that my Jenny Boyd was in the parish of Rashee, for sure, for sure. Her granddaughter Margaret married Thomas Beggs and they lived in Ballyvoy, Co. Antrim. Margaret's daughter Jane Beggs married Robert Beggs and Margaret's son John Lawson Beggs married Jane Beggs. Quite a connection there to the Beggs.
To get back to William John Beggs, the one on the census for 1911 in Ballynashee, Rashee was 61. That means born 1850. Is it likely to be the same person as the William Beggs on the Valuation with 5 pieces of property? Wasn't the Valuation in 1864?
Peggy
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To get back to William John Beggs, the one on the census for 1911 in Ballynashee, Rashee was 61. That means born 1850. Is it likely to be the same person as the William Beggs on the Valuation with 5 pieces of property? Wasn't the Valuation in 1864?
Peggy
The properties in Griffiths held by William Beggs (plots 7 and 8) were valued in 1862. According to the revaluation records, that changed to “reps of Wm Beggs” in 1866, indicating he had died around that time (Griffiths clerks were often out by a year or so, so don't take that year as being 100% accurate). In 1867 the property passed to James Beggs. He was still in possession in 1880. I cannot tell you how long he remained the tenant as the subsequent books for this townland are not on-line yet. (They are in PRONI and if you have a way of accessing them you could find out from that).
The only likely death for William Beggs that I can see was registered in Antrim town 1865 Vol 16, page 6, est year of birth 1802. That’s possibly him. The death certificate should tell, if you decide to get it.
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Hey, Elwyn, we may be onto something. Is there any way to ascertain if that William who had the 5 pieces of land and died abt 1865 and his death was registered in Antrim Town, Vol 16, page 6 is the same William Beggs who died Nov 8, 1865 in Ballynashee? If so, I have a fair amount of info on him and his siblings and descendants. He did have a son James who got McCreas' land. William's wife Jenny got Mansion Farm which had previously belonged to William's uncle also called William Beggs. Jenny also got 2 pieces of land called Kate's Falls. Daughter Isabella also got some land. Son James died in 1907.
There was a Thomas Beggs of Ballynashee who died in 1880 who had a brother William John, carpenter. Wonder if that is our William John.
Peggy
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I have now found William John Beggs in 1901 in Ballynashee, wife Jane and son Robert James.
The oldest child is Elizabeth and it says on the census that she was born in Phila, America so that fits with the birth of Eliza in Philadelphia Oct 19,1875. Also possible that the marriage was in Philadelphia. Then the next child was born in Derry before Robert James in Co. Antrim. Younger children were Rachel, Sarah Ann and Jane. In 1901, he is listed as Wm John. If this is the same William John that has brother Thomas, then William's parents are Robert and Elizabeth. Jane died between 1901 and 1911. William naming his only son Robert fits with William's father being Robert. Robert James married Ellen Jane McCullough and named his first son William John.
Peggy
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Is there any way to ascertain if that William who had the 5 pieces of land and died abt 1865 and his death was registered in Antrim Town, Vol 16, page 6 is the same William Beggs who died Nov 8, 1865 in Ballynashee?
Peggy
Peggy,
There’s no way of confirming it for certain. I think you have to weigh up the information you have and decide how likely it is.
There were just 35 farms listed in the townland in 1862. Several were occupied by Beggs but only one by a John Beggs who is marked as “reps of John Beggs” in 1866, indicating he had recently died. Does your death certificate for 1865 say that that John Beggs lived at Ballynashee and that he was a farmer? If so, that’s an important start. Who was the informant? Can you trace that person subsequently in the townland? Finally, I suppose you have to ask the question, “if the deceased John Beggs in 1865 isn’t the one in Griffiths, then who was he?” In other words there ought to be two John Beggs appearing in Griffiths. But there’s only one. I don’t know the answers to a couple of the points I have asked about, but my gut feeling is that this is the same man.
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Jane Cunningham was a sister to my Great Grandfather's brother Robert "Bob" Cunningham. She married William John Beggs (e1850-1931). I have info on most of the Beggs children. What may be of interest to you is the Will of WJ Beggs is that he left the farm to Robert Hunter who was married to his daughter Martha. At the time WJ Beggs died his son Robert "James" had died. I have pictures of his daughters Martha and Sadie Ann and if I search more I could find Jennie. Happy to share what I have if you are interested. Would you have any information on your research of Jane Cunningham's parents? All I have is that her mother was a sister to the Gamble family.
Proni: Date of Death: 30 September 1931 Date of Grant: 7 July 1932 Reseal Date: Blank Effects: £301 16s. 8d
Beggs William John of Ballynashee county Antrim farmer died 30 September 1931
Probate Belfast 7 July to Robert James Beggs and Robert Hunter farmers. Effects £301 16s. 8d.