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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: rbouch8828 on Thursday 05 September 13 21:43 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find information on my mother's grand uncle, Arthur McKeown (born 30 Sept. 1855) in Tamlaght Rasharkin, County Antrim, Northern Ireland in the 1911 Irish Census and his siblings.
Brothers and sisters would have included Rose McKeown born 10 Sept. 1876, Margaret McKeown born July 31 1864, Mary McKeown born 27 Aug. 1873 and Edward McKeown born 13 Jun 1871, Matilda McKeown born 4 Apr 1880.
Their parents would have been Arthur McKeown born about 1826 in Scotland and died 11 Jan 1886 and Sara Scullion born about 1836 in Antrim and died 17 Jan 1901 in Tamlaght Rasharkin, County Antrim.
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Hello and welcome :)
I wonder if this is him, although he has only aged 3 yrs since 1901 ;)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Killoquin__Upper/Dreen/130214/
Regards
Heywood
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Hello,
Thank you for your post. The dates and most of the names don't line up with what I have.
I appreciate your post.
RB
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Did he marry? If it is the same person, he is single in 1901.
It is best to post what you already know.
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I don't know. My grandmother, who was his sister, left the family and came to the US by herself in the early 1900's and I never heard her speak of the rest of her family. I only discovered that there were siblings when I found her baptismal records.
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Hello,
Thank you for your post. The dates and most of the names don't line up with what I have.
I appreciate your post.
RB
Hello again,
If you don't know that he married, I don't understand this statement.
In 1901, there is a 40 yr old Arthur in Tamlaght, Killoquin North. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Killoquin_North/Tamlaght/946753/
This would give an approximate date of birth of 1861.
The Arthur in 1911 has children named Edward and Rose which could be after siblings.
I know the age is not right but this often happens.
I wouldn't dismiss him just yet. :)
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Oh, I misunderstood the citation. I am very new at this. Thank you for pointing that out to me.
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What made me think it was unrelated was that I did not recognize the name of the village. They were from Rasharkin, so I was expecting to see him in Rasharkin.
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What made me think it was unrelated was that I did not recognize the name of the village. They were from Rasharkin, so I was expecting to see him in Rasharkin.
Your original post said the family lived in Tamlaght and the census record is also Tamlaght- Killoquin North is the D.E.D. for that particular census.
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This basic summary might help you begin to understand Irish land divisions:
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/local_history/areas_regions_and_land_divisions.htm
I would agree with Heywood's findings on Arthur. The townlands of Dreen and Tamlaght, both in Killoquin Upper D.E.D, Parish of Rasharkin, were neighbouring, so quite conceivable that he moved from one to the other after 1901.
The 1901 find is recorded as Killoquin North, but I believe North and Upper were one and the same place. The 1911 Census gives that Arthur as married 10 years, so fits well with the 1901 Arthur marrying after the 1901 Census.
The valuation revision books for Tamlaght, record an Arthur McKeown taking over as occupier from a Sarah McKeown in Tamlaght (albeit noted as in 1905, not in her death year of 1901). An Arthur also appears as taking over as occupier on a property in Dreen (previous occupier a Rev McAllister) in 1914.
There is a marriage index entry for an Arthur M'Keown possibly to a Catherine Ann M'Neil in Coleraine registration district in 1901.
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I have discovered a potential living connection to the family recorded at Dreen for you. As living persons should not be discussed on the forum boards, I will send you a PM with his details. You could always then make contact and see if he knows any of his own family history and whether or not it links in with your family.
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This is wonderful information and I had seen references to Tamlaght and Rasharkin and I had seen them together as Tamlaght Rasharkin. When I wrote to the church to obtain my grandmother Matilda McKeown's baptismal certificate (4th April 1880) it was written as St. Mary's Parish Rasharkin.
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Here's the church's website-
http://www.stmarysparishrasharkin.org/
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Thank you for the link to the parish. I see they have a centenary for downloading which I will print out.
Very much appreciated!
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Given that Arthur seems to have been from Scotland and married in Ireland, it is likely, that is if Sarah had not been living in Scotland and they married there, that he married in his wife's parish. With the link for McKeown to Tamlaght townland, have you considered the Scullion families in the same townland as potential links to Sarah? Certainly, at the time of the Griffiths valuation in mid 1800s, as you may already have found, there were at least 3 male Scullions in Tamlaght and others in neighbouring townlands:
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/antrim/rasharkin.htm
As you also may have already discovered, the 1851 census for Tamlaght townland is one of the few surviving for Ireland. There is no obvious sign of Arthur there nor, unfortunately, Sarah, albeit there are other Scullions. Always worth keeping it in mind though as may link in at some point.
On what records did you find Arthur's birthplace as Scotland? I ask, because I notice in Tamlaght at 1851 an Arthur McKeane and parents (mum Margaret), albeit born County Antrim, aged c25yrs, so born c 1826, so same year as your Arthur. I would not find it beyond the realms of possibility for McKeane to be a mistranscript/variation on McKeown, especially as there is no McKeane recorded in the Griffiths valuation for Tamlaght albeit there is an Arthur McKeown. Perhaps worth giving further consideration to this given that your Arthur named a daughter Margaret.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/locality/ireland/census1851/rasharkin.html
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The information regarding Arthur's birthplace came from my grandmother's statement in the US census where she reported his place of birth as Scotland and her mother's place of birth as Ireland.
Thank you for these other details though. This sounds like promising information. I will have to follow it up.
Thank you.
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If you would be so kind, could you find a record of the family on the 1901 Census?
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The Irish census website seems to be down at the moment. Have you seen the link for 1901 entry posted earlier in this thread? (won't work until site is back up)
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I did see the 1901 posting. I should have said 1891. I was trying to find my grandmother's (Matilda A. McKeown) family while her mother (Sara (Scullion) McKeown) was still living.
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There is no 1891 census- the first complete census for Ireland is 1901 (it and 1911 are online). For earlier years only small fragments for a few areas survive (such as the 1851 bit for some of County Antrim).
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Oh, I see. That's a shame. For my purposes, it would probably be ideal if there were one from 1881. My grandmother (Matilda A. McKeown) was born in 1880 and her father (Arthur McKeown) died in 1886. So he would still be alive. Her mother (Sara Scullion) lived until 1901, so she would still be alive, and the rest of the family would have been there.
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Yes, 1881 would have been wonderful to see for you, but alas, it isn't to be.
Can I check - were you aware that Matilda was apparently heading to a sister, Mary McKeown, when she went to US ?
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No! Where did you find that? I had never heard anything about a sister in the US and I am certain that neither my mother, nor either of her two sisters new anything about one.
I did look in the US National Archives in the records for immigration and found a record for the White Star Line at Boston with the record saying, if memory serves me, a Maggie (or possibly Margaret) McKeown, but the age and dates were right for my grandmother so I took it to be her and that the name difference was the work of the immigration officer.
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I didn't mean to say, "No" you could not check. I was just exclaiming "No" I had never heard that!
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Matilda travelled on the ship 'State of Nebraska' in 1899. Surname mis-transcribed both on outbound schedule and arrival manifest, but is her, as home address was Tamlaght. She left from Londonderry and arrived on October 11th.
Which census year do you have her on that says 'Scotland' for her father's birthplace?
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It was on the 1920 US Census.
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What is the information that you found relating to her sister Mary and where was she in the US?
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What did they have for her surname? At the US Archives they use a "Sounder" system that is supposed to catch misspellings of the same names when you do searches for similar sounding names.
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It's called Soundex-
resources.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/soundexconverter
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Yes, Soundex is the correct term.
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Lateness of the hour last night meant I had to leave before your next question.
Yes, I too had some problems finding Matilda. Initially I tried at ellisisland.org with soundex, but to no avail. I had used findmypast.com for the outward record, which thankfully was under McKeown (I didn't mean to say earlier that this too was mis-transcribed). Anyhow, when searching at findmypast, I used a +/- 2yr range for birth and a likely match for Matilda appeared as 1882 birth (not unusual for there to be variance).
From this likely match record, I then re-visited ellisisland.org and used the search by ship option, as I now had name of same. Doing this presented a list dates of arrival for the 'State of Nebraska'. Choosing the correct year of arrival from this, then date on next screen, I was presented with a transcribed list of passengers from which it was then easy to spot a 'Matilda Mc Keonn (with space between the c and k)'. On the same transcript list, it stated her residence as having been 'Tanelaght', so I was happy that it was probably Matilda McKeown of Tamlaght. I then viewed the original ship manifest and fully satisfied myself that it was indeed Matilda as, to my eye, the writing clearly said 'McKeown' and 'Tamlaght'.
I haven't had the opportunity to check the rest of the entry more fully yet. If you view it, you will see that it does record her as going to join her sister, a Mary McKeown. The final destination column seems to read 'Munford' and the adjoining column says she has a ticket as far as 'Boston'. The relative's address column, seems to read 'Munford, Mass.,' but at the moment I am not finding such a placename in Massachusetts - perhaps you know otherwise. Something does seem to have been written across adjoining columns too, but this is not proving as easy to read - based on similar in same columns of other passengers, possibly is an address clarification and reads '____ Hill' perhaps.
Whereabouts in US did Matilda finally settle?
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Great find scotmum!
Here's Matilda's marriage. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N4D3-ZMN
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Rose's marriage https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N4FN-TNX
Mary' marriage https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N43L-HMB
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I would imagine this is the 'Munford' reference - Mary's employer in 1900 is called George Mumford
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M9TD-F71
Mary states that her father was born Ireland.
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I would imagine this is the 'Munford' reference - Mary's employer in 1900 is called George Mumford
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M9TD-F71
Mary states that her father was born Ireland.
Good finds too, Heywood (and great teamwork ;D). So possibly potential descendants of both sisters, Rosie and Mary, still in US nowadays too.
The Mumfords look to have lived in Essex Road in 1900, which is in the Chestnut Hill section of Newton, so possibly the hard to read '______ Hill' of the manifest.
update
have just checked manifest again and yes, the first word could indeed read 'Chestnut'.
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Given the sort of guest visiting the Mumford home at times, I would imagine
Matilda Mary had an interesting time there:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w1m/
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Given the sort of guest visiting the Mumford home at times, I would imagine Matilda had an interesting time there:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w1m/
Wow! :D
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It is apaprently Matilda's mother's birthplace that is listed as 'Scotland' in the 1920 census, not her father. So as Ireland seems more consistent for the father across the sisters' records, I again feel the 1851 census for Arthur McKeane is in fact for Arthur McKeown:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MF98-7BW
(I see her immigration year shows 1909, when we now know it was 1899)
albeit their birthplaces are reversed in the 1930:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQR2-337
(immigration year getting closer, 1900)
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Mary Blaney (nee McKeown) seems to have died in 1921:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_television/4987646899/
the person who posted the picture seems knowledgeable on those in the grave, perhaps worthwhile trying to contact him to pursue potential family link, assuming it is his own line being researched.
update
see http://marksardella.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/blaney-grave/
Mary and Neil Blaney had a number of children, so plenty of people for you to research further should you wish to:
Rose Mary Blaney
7 October 1903
Sarah Esther Blaney
29 March 1909
Henry Joseph Blaney
27 June 1902
Neal John Blaney
22 November 1907
Matilda Madeline Blaney
18 July 1910
(ps interestingly, the Blaney family look to have originally been from Portglenone area, not too far from Rasharkin area)
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We should probably have a little break for now to give you a chance to catch breath and read up on all the recent posts and links, rbouch ;D. Lots of info to digest. Potentially lots more to discover too.
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Sorry scotmum,
I had to rush out and only had time to type 'Wow'. How good though!
You have continued the good work and as you say - lots to look at and think about. I bet RB is thrilled. :)
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Good morning from the US! This all so amazing! I had no idea that there were two sisters of my grandmother here in the US. She never said anything about them. I wonder what happened? I will have to look into that part here.
I don't know how you all do it? You are amazing! Thank you so very much! It is truly unbelievable!
My grandfather lived in Newton, and Chestnut Hill adjoins Newton. He started out his working life as a chauffeur, so he could have met my grandmother through her employer in some connection that way.
I also wonder who it was that I found in the US National Archives arriving at the Port of Boston on the White Star Line by the name of something like Margaret or Maggie McKeown? It was several years ago that I saw the microfilm and I didn't make a copy of it, so I don't have a record to go by.
Back in Ireland, if Arthur was born there, I wonder how many generations back there might be any records for? The same for Sara Scullion. Although, I looked at the 1851 census and I didn't see a Sara Scullion listed. Plenty of other Scullions though.
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Another question: What is the significance of the numbers in the 1851 Irish Census? 14 Tamlaght Townland, Rasharkin County Antrim
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Another question: What is the significance of the numbers in the 1851 Irish Census? 14 Tamlaght Townland, Rasharkin County Antrim
None- it's just household number 14 in Tamlaght townland in that particular census.
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Thank you for the information of the number used in the Census. Is that an actual address, or just a count used for the census?
Also, I have answered my own question regarding Margaret McKeown. At the time that I searched the US National Archives, I had not found the other names of my grandmother's family members and since the only name I could turn up coming into the port of Boston was Margaret McKeown, or Maggie McKeown (I still can't remember how it was listed.) I just assumed it was the Immigration man's misspelling of Matilda. However, another of Matilda's sisters was Margaret. So obviously Margaret came to Boston too. Perhaps she came first to lead the way for the others?
It appears that all the sisters came to Boston, but the two brothers stayed. Although, I see that Arthur the eldest son, is listed as present at his father's death, but Edward is listed as present at his mother, Sara's death. Curious.
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As aghadowey has said, 14 was just a household number, that is, the 14th household the enumerator visited in that townland rather than a number allocated to the property itself that remained with it always.
Margaret McKeown may or may not have led the way for her sisters. To be sure, you would need to find the record of the arrival for the Margaret McKeown you found previously and work through the information gleaned to rule in/out it being her.
It is not that unusual for one member of a family to be present at the death of a parent and sign as witness on the certificate whilst a different member is present and signs at death of other parent, even if not eldest.
As you have had contact previously with St Mary's, did you ask them to check in case Arthur and Sarah married there in the 1850s - it would seem marriage records for the church exist from 1848 - 1880 (albeit if Sarah was from another church, it is more likely they married in that)?
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You've been such a great help and given me so much to follow up on. I really appreciate all your efforts. Yes, I can check back with the church to see what they may have. They may also have information on Arthur the son and Edward, regarding marriages, Christenings, etc.
I must have switched around the information on the birthplaces of Arthur and Sara from the "get-go". I have a print out of the original page from the census and went back to look at it after your note and sure enough, it clearly shows I had it backwards.
Thank you so much for all your help and all the leads that you and the others have provided. This is truly amazing and very much appreciated!
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Think I've finally tracked down Matilda in the 1900 census for you, with her surname transcribed as 'Mcheone'.
She is in Newton, which fits well, immigration year is 1899, so another good match, she is a servant, as you suspected and is in a house on Saltonstall Avenue, which is beside Essex Road, the street her sister Mary was in. She is working for the Saltonstall family, whose son was Leverett Saltonstall:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leverett_Saltonstall
so another fascinating household, no doubt.
On this census, she states both parents born Ireland.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M9TD-K6Q
(the Saltonstall family are also mis-transcribed, as Saltenstall)
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Isn't that amazing. She often spoke of Leverett Saltonstall and he had a lovely estate in Sherborn, MA near where I now live. The Norfolk Hunt Club often rides through the property on their fall hunts.