RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: dickensfan56 on Friday 06 September 13 18:33 BST (UK)
-
Hi. Before my mother passed away I promised I would go back to England and try to find my grandparents' graves. Mom was orphaned at 14. I have her full birthdate and my grandparents' names and approximate years of their deaths. They went to St. Mary's church and I think lived on Willows Rd. about 1 1/5 miles from the church. I haven't been able to find anything. I've joined every ancestry site on the web and still can't find anything. Any suggestions? We're going in April and I'd like to have some ideas since there are quite a few cemeteries in Walsall. I would greatly appreciate any help anyone can offer.
-
First you need to find their exact deaths.
If you tell us their names and dates of birth, we can help you look.
I assume you have checked freebmd?
-
Grandpa was James Haydon, died approximately 1927 and grandma was Gertrude Haydon, died approximately 1935. Mom was Eileen Winifred Haydon, born July 6, 1921. I don't know my grandparent's birthdates. Mom lived in Walsall at least until she was 14 when her mother died. The church placed her with a family. I have no info on them. I know mother inherited some money when she got older. She said her father was a civil servant. Her mother never worked, even after he died, so he must have had a pension or something. I am not familiar with the site you gave me. I have requested a copy of mom's birth certificate but none of the ancestry sites had a record of one. Thank you so much.
-
I checked freebmd and found nothing on grandparents. Will try mom.
-
I'm struggling finding info. So far for 1927 the deaths I found don't fit. I come from Walsall I can help with that aspect. In respect to st marys's, are we talking about st Mary's and all saints in the palfrey area.I don't know how many willows road there are but there is one in shelfield which is nearby. There is also a st marys on the mount at caldmore which is catholic. There's nothing coming up in the Staffordshire monumental cd entries but obviously some parishes are n't covered and may not have a gravestone. Have you considered the spelling of her surname there's a james haden in 1901 in Walsall, although probably not him and I did find a marriage for a james haden in Alcester to a Gertrude in 1906 it's on freebmd. Is there any chance the info you've got could be the family who they put her with but I suppose being 14 she would know her own name. The surname is spelt different ways. Suggest you contact Walsall register office re birth cert, they've got a web site and if they find the cert you'll be expected to buy it. Where have you got your info from on the grandparents, your mother?
-
Like weste I can't find anything in Staffs. I've even searched all Eileen's & Winifred's in Walsall 2nd. half of 1921 & nothing like Haydon coming up.
You might have to consider the prospect that James & Gertrude married after your mom was born if they married at all & she might be under her mother's maiden name.
jim
-
This really is a mystery! Like the others, I can't find any Eileen Winifred Haydon or similar about the right time. Hadens is well-known Walsall legal firm, but this may be irrelevant.
I have found some records that may help.
Death of James Haydon 1925 Jan-Mar Walsall 6b 877 age 80. There appears to be no probate calendar entry to fit. Birth about 1845 doesn't seem to lead to a spouse named Gertrude, Florence or permutation.
Death of Florence Haydon 1936 Oct-Dec Walsall 6b 672 age 75 (born about 1861). At least she was of similar age. Probate calendar says Florence was a widow, date of death 17 Dec 1936, with administration to William Frank Haden. Estate £1,093 11s 6d.
Birth William F Haden 1815 Jan-Mar Walsall 6b 1356, mother's maiden name Goodchild. However, I can't find any Haydon or similar connected to Goodchild or similar. I can't find a marriage of a Gertrude, Florence or similar to a Hayden or similar or a birth of Goodchild with the right names.
Census 1911. Gertrude Florence Haydon age 24, married 1 year or less, military, but no place. Birth about 1887 Leeds, Yorkshire. Clearly, someone named Gertrude Florence married a man named Haydon in about 1910-11, and there are some candidates, bot none named James. Given the birthdate this seems unlikely to be the Florence Haydon above.
Regrettably, I can't find anything to connect any of these people, but maybe someone out there can get a bit further.
It looks like getting the entries of death for James and Florence is the place to start. The locations and informants might help to connect them.
-
There's heydon spelling as well. I also looked in the probate at the same when I was on ancestry and did n't find anything like jim1. One thought is that it may be worth looking on the electoral roll in Walsall archives which I could do at some point. Have you got any documentation at all re Walsall? Also any photographs? So we can pin anything down. Are you sure your mom was 14 at the time? Sometimes you think you were older at the time than you actually were. Although I tried a wide enough search. I'm quite happy to search in what records I can but as already indicated loads of churches and cemeteries so can't search without having some idea. What was was she actually told about her deaths? Have you managed to work out which st Mary's? Loads of questions I know but some of these are what need to be considered.
-
Florence Haydon probated 1936 is the widow of Oxford William Haydon d.1930.
-
Sorry if this is an obviois question - but was Haydon definitely Elieens's maiden name, and not her married name?
The only birth reg for an Eileen W, in Jul/Aug/Sep 1921 is for an :
Eileen W Pinches, Jul/Aug/Sep1921, Walsall ref 6b 1441
Then there is a marriage:
Jul/Aug/Sep 1941 Walsall ref 6b 1947
Eileen M Pinches / Edward J Haydon
There is a marriage oct/Nov/Dec 1909, Walsall ref 6b 1312 for James Henry Pinches, one of possible brides is Gertrude Prior
-
Deaths
March 1927
James H Pinches age 43
Birmingham north ref 6d 596
March 1936
Gertrude Pinches age 53
Walsall ref 6b 814
-
Probate index entry
James Henry Pinches of 65 Tong Street, Walsall, Staffs died 10 Jan 1927 at the General Hospital Birmingham.Administration Birmingham 17 Oct 1930 to Gertrude Pinches widow Effects £20
So, there was no will (admin, not probate)
Cant see a probate index entry for Gertrude
-
That's an interesting find Liz.
James did marry Gertrude as they are living with her parents in 1911.
They had 4 children in all with Eileen W being the last one.
The death dates may be coincidence but if they are it's extraordinary.
jim
-
thank you all so much for your help. You're very kind to do this. The few records I have of mom's spell her name Haydon. Her middle name was Winifred. She said both her parents names were Haydon so I assume they were married. They must have had some money because Grandmother never worked after grandfather died and they stayed in the same house. They were Catholic so I assume it's St. Mary's on the Mount. I've written to them but they didn't reply. Mom described her father's picture (her only memory of him) and never mentioned him being older than her mom. I think they both died very young. Grandpa of bleeding ulcers and grandma of breast cancer. When grandma died, mom was placed with a family by the church and she had no idea what became of any of their property/pictures. She was left with nothing. I may have found a record of her in London because I know she was there during the blitz. From there she traveled half way around the world by herself on a freighter ship until she came to the US and met Dad. I've sent away for her birth certificate and paid the fee. Hope something shows up. Again, you are all very kind to help. Kindest regards.
-
Mom also said she was an only child. Her mother gave birth to stillborn twins before her. Mom said she received an inheritance (I assume she was 18). That's when she started traveling. Went to France, was an artist on the west bank and blew all the money on Chanel clothing. I do have some pictures of her there in her Chanel dress.
-
. I've sent away for her birth certificate and paid the fee.
Did you find a birth registration under Haydon then?
Did you not think the Pinches saga ticked all the boxes?
-
The only birth reg for an Eileen W, in Jul/Aug/Sep 1921 is for an :
Eileen W Pinches, Jul/Aug/Sep1921, Walsall ref 6b 1441
I couldnt see a birth reg for an Eileen W Haydon in the right quarter.
And Eileen Pinches parents are James and Gertrude! (Who each died in tbe years you said Eileens parents died in)
Too many coincidences?
-
That is so odd. I wonder if Haydon was the name of the people who took her in. She disliked them so badly I just don't think she would have kept their name. I tried to get her to write about her life but she wouldn't do it. It was too hard for her. I'll let you know if I get the birth certificate I sent for. Can you tell me the most likely cemeteries to check when I get to Walsall? Do they keep lists of those interred there? If nothing else I'll visit every Willow street I can find and go to the church where she attended.
-
If the one I found is her, it seems she married a Haydon.
Which birth cert have you sent for then?
-
When did she go to the US,have you found her on any emigration website?
You say you think you have found her in the blitz in London,in what records?
We may be able to find her on the electoral rolls.
Are you sure she was born in Walsall in Staffordshire?
It's a long way from London ;D
Carol
-
Mom was Eileen Winifred Haydon, born July 6, 1921.
Answer to one of the questions!
Thats why I looked in Jul/Aug/Sep 1921 quarter
-
She would be 18 in 1939, start of the war.
I am not sure that she could go travelling then - especially not to France!
-
Possible -
Electoral registers 1945 (she would be 24, and it would be in tbe blitz time)
10 Christchurch Street Chelsea
Eileen W Haydon
-
When did she go to the US,what was her surname then?
Did she marry your dad out there,do you have that marriage cert,as it looks very much as though she married as Eileen W Pinches to Edward J Haydon in 1941.
There are only 3 births in the 1921 Sept 1/4 of an Eileen W anything,which would cover a July birth.
And only one of them in Walsall-I'm with Liz on this,she MUST be Eileen W PInches.
All our BMD records are centralised so will appear on the FreeBMD list for that date.
Births Sep 1921
Lenton Eileen W Sutton Wolverhampton 6b 1115
Pinches Eileen W Prior Walsall 6b 1441
Sharples Eileen W Hikin Wolstanton 6b 183
-
This Pinches angle looks more and more convincing.
Birth Eileen W Pinches 1921 Walsall to Pinches and mother's maiden name Prior already identified. James Henry Pinches married Gertrude Prior 1909 Walsall. Children of Pinches-Prior: Gertrude b.1916 and twins Henry and Joseph both birth and death Dec 1918 Walsall - the twins mentioned?
Same process for Eileen and husband, i.e. children of Haydon-Pinches: John E Haydon 1942 and Paul M Haydon 1944, both Walsall. Paul M died 1945 Birmingham?
Edward John Haydon registered death 1995 Walsall - same as husband?
The Blitz in London is generally taken to be 1940-41. Maybe war service took her there? Maybe her husband, too.
-
I reckon she left Edward Haydon, went to London during the war, then emigrated (either straight to US or via a trip around post war France), where she married and started a new life. She may not even admit to being married before when she marries in the US (there is a death for an Edward John Haydon in Walsall in 1995 age 82), if that is him, there must either be a divorce,or the US marriage is bigamous but it might not be him)
-
Children of Pinches-Prior: Gertrude b.1916 and twins Henry and Joseph both birth and death Dec 1918 Walsall - the twins mentioned?
I hadn't even bothered looking for the twins birth/deaths as the OP said they were stillborn- they weren't if they were registered,they lived ,even for a short time.
Still births were not registered till 1927 and even then the indexes are not open for public viewing.
-
I sent for a birth certificate under Eileen W. Haydon with the birth date I had. Not sure exactly when she came to the US. Her passport listed her name that way. I think mom and dad married in 1947. I'll have to check. Her first stop in US was New York. I know she was a window dresser at Macy's for a while. Traveled to France and Trinidad before then. I found a census in London under Eileen Haydon. She would have been 16 or so when she moved there. I always thought she must have run away from the family she was placed with. She said she worked in a hotel in London where the servicemen passed through on the way to the front. She described a lot of local haunts they went to in detail so I do feel she was there for a time.
-
The voting age in England was 21 until 1971,then it was lowered to 18.
So no one would appear on an electoral roll until they reached 21.
Carol
-
Children of Pinches-Prior: Gertrude b.1916 and twins Henry and Joseph both birth and death Dec 1918 Walsall - the twins mentioned?
I hadn't even bothered looking for the twins birth/deaths as the OP said they were stillborn- they weren't if they were registered,they lived ,even for a short time.
Still births were not registered till 1927 and even then the indexes are not open for public viewing.
Yet another coincidence - the fact that there were older twins!
And the Gertrude M died Jun 1919, age 2. So before Eileen was born.
-
I found a census in London under Eileen Haydon.
The latest available UK census is 1911, and she wasnt born then! So I dont think it was a census you found :)
-
Dionysus, if mom had a son, John E. Haydon, is he still alive? could I have a brother???/
-
the census was 1936 - 1939 London when Mom would have been 16 or so.
-
I sent for a birth certificate under Eileen W. Haydon with the birth date I had.
But there isnt one ..... See Carols reply at 14:51, Carol listed all Eileen W's born in that quarter. No Haydon.
Do you not agree that it seems highlt likely she was born Eileen Pinches, and had a brief marriage to Edward Haydon before moving to London and then US?
All the evidence points that way - coupled with no evidence for a Haydon birth, nor for existance of a James and Gertrude Haydon of right sort of ages and deaths.
-
the census was 1936 - 1939 London when Mom would have been 16 or so.
It's not her then,as I said you had to be 21 to be on an electoral roll- wasn't a census,last one that was released here was the 1911.
-
Liz you're right that the evidence is pointing to her being a Pinches. If she had two children and one died early she may have just run, but I can't see her leaving one behind. She was a fabulous mother. When did Gertrude and James Pinches die?
-
Same process for Eileen and husband, i.e. children of Haydon-Pinches: John E Haydon 1942 and Paul M Haydon 1944, both Walsall. Paul M died 1945 Birmingham?
I hadn't really taken this onboard till now WOW !!!
If the 1945 child died- that may have been why she went to USA?
And is still puts her in Walsall in 1945 too.
He would only be a half brother to you Dickens.
You woudn't have the same father. More proof is needed with certs to confimr all this.
All electoral rolls in Walsall up to 1939 (non taken during the war)
-
Liz you're right that the evidence is pointing to her being a Pinches. If she had two children and one died early she may have just run, but I can't see her leaving one behind. She was a fabulous mother. When did Gertrude and James Pinches die?
See replies #10 and 11
-
Any divorce records on her? I guess I may also be illegitimate too. If I have a half brother I want to find him. I'm an only child.
-
If she was still married it might explain why she listed her parents as Haydon & not Pinches as this would muddy the waters enough to be untraceable (not that the US would be particularly bothered to check) but it was a plausible explanation as to why she immigrated as Haydon.
The similarities between the Pinches & Haydons can't be ignored but there are 2 contradictions; one being that the Pinches had 4 children & James Pinches was a bridle maker at least in 1911.
Re. divorce records. My understanding is that they are only kept for 30 years but I'm willing to be corrected.
-
Dickensfan,
I am going to send you a PM,as we are getting into the realms of living people here and I have some more up to date info for you.
Carol
-
I must admit that I had looked and noticed the pinches. I too wondered whether her name is from the family she stayed with etc. Certainly all looks interesting. In respect to the cemeteries, I would say ryecroft is very likely. Once you get something to check then I could check at Walsall archives for you. There is St Matthews church at Walsall and also queens street had a cemetery. There is rushall st michaels if the area to look is willows road as not far away. Can't remember if st marys on the mount has a burial ground but can check.
-
Well Dickensfan and I have been in PM contact. She agrees that we may well have brought the family right up to date,with an address no less.
I suggested that she gets some certs to confirm all our findings of today.
If it were me I'd want to get as many as poss to be 100% sure.
So what does anyone else think?
I'd get the 1921 birth cert to confirm her DOB.
Eileen W Pinches, Sep1921, Walsall ref 6b 1441
Then if that's correct, the 1941 marriage one to Edward J Haydon.
Sep 1941 Walsall ref 6b 1947
Eileen M Pinches / Edward J Haydon
Then the 1942 birth one- won't mention it here, he IS still alive.
I believe he married in 1964 too in the Walsall area.
I will PM you what references to use later,once we're sure we're on the right track.
Dickensfan ,make sure you use the GRO website to order the certs ,they only cost £9-25 and they post to USA for that.
Regards
Carol
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
-
Certainly before making contact with the person still alive, I would get their birth cert - to confirm their mother is also Eileen Winifred. If it turns out his mother is some other Pinches person, then we are on a wrong track, and it could be embarrassing if Dickensfan claimed to be a long lost half sibling.
I would also be keen to see Eileens mariage cert in USA - to see if she said she was single / widowed / divorced. And what name (and most importantly surname) she gave for her father.
I would also be quite keen to see if Edward Haydon ever remarried.
Just a few thoughts. But most are on the assumption we are on the right track.
Other certs will be interesting, but it is difficult to use them to prove anything. Hopefully they all fit Eileen Pinches, but wont prove that the lady in USA called Eileen Haydon was born as Eileen Pinches.
The 1921 birth cert for Eileen Pinches, if it gives her exact dob as 6th July, it will add just more circumstantial evidence - but not prove the scenario. I would say that is worth getting - as that datemight just be one co-incidence too many if it does match!
If she is totally upfront on her USA marriage cert (naming father as James Pinches, and saying she had previously been married), then that would prove the scenario that we have put together, that the evidence seems to point to.
-
Carol those are the certs I would recommend. If we could limit the area to search I could do some looking up. Unfortunately I don't think you can tell church or reg office stuff for Walsall yet unlike some of the bmd sites. I have to go to either Walsall or Stafford at some point as i'm working on an enquiry for the family history society I belong to. I think we'll all be interested in the outcome of this one. Looked on staffs inscriptions cd but the pinches name we've been considering are n't the ones. The ryecroft cem records are at Walsall archives. I've got a catholic rel buried there in the non conformist bit.
lizdb like you say that marriage cert might be interesting.
-
Weste
In the very first post the OP said " They went to St. Mary's church and I think lived on Willows Rd. about 1 1/5 miles from the church. I haven't been able to find anything"
Does that help to narrow the church/area down?
If we could find them in a Kelly's or an Electoral Roll in Willow Road that would be fab ;)
Carol
Ahaha St Mary's is Catholic......so she wouldn't be able to divorce!
-
The obvious church is St Mary's the Mount, Glebe Street, which is no great distance from Willows Road. It also has the advantage of still being active, so you might get some guidance from there.
-
I wrote to St. Mary's once and left a phone message there but received no reply. Of course, I was looking for Eileen Haydon then. Any record or where the Pinches/Haydon marriage took place?
-
I assume no one found a death record on Eileen Haydon? I couldn't find any immigration or passport records either. I know she entered as Eileen Haydon because I contacted immigration once, long ago and they confirmed her entry. They did not give me the year, however.
-
After all that work by many people not one person has suggested that she may well have been born in Scotland or Ireland and therefore wouldnt appear on the BDM lists fr England and Wales. No one has considered that this person may have been adopted into the family and this is why there is no birth under the details given. Then of course they are working with an oral history that may well be wrong as well.
Rob
-
I think you'll find Rob we've considered everything.
Because of the complexity we have to work on the most likely scenarios.
Oral history is all we have & it all centres around Walsall.
If the information we have doesn't pan out then we will have broaden the search.
We need to see what we can glean from the 3 certs. which is the way to go at present.
-
Jim I am not disagreeing with you but the fact is no one mentioned anything of that sort. I also have ancestors from Walsall, birth given there no sign of the family in the 51 census even though one was born there in 48 and no birth cert found in England. Did some digging in Ireland and voila there was the birth. For some reason the father was happier to say he was from Black Country than Ireland.
My point however was not a criticism it was more a point of teaching someone who seems to be a newbie that there are lots of other things to consider. This is the one negative of this site. Many who post are experienced researchers and forget to explain in detail everything for the beginner.
Rob
-
I did do global searches on the many ancestry sites I used which even brought up Eileen Haydons in Canada and the US. There were no exact matches for her (or James/Gertrude Haydon) in any of those searches that fit the correct time frame.
I have considered that none of what I thought I knew might be correct about her life in England. I only have pictures after she left there. She did tell me about her street, house and the church but they were rather general descriptions.
The similarities in the names and dates pertaining to the Pinches are compelling. If I do get to the point of contacting any of the descendants I think I should start with the grandchildren and find out if they know anything. I'm afraid what it might do to the son if this is true. If anyone has an address on either of them, please send me a PM. Thank you again.
-
I forgot to mention that I did send a request to the GRO for her passport information and I emailed two priests in Walsall. Only one replied that he had nothing.
-
Acorgen,
DIckensfan did know from the start her mother's DOB and that she was born in Walsall,going with those facts we soon established that Eileen W PInches was the only birth that fitted.
Then added to that fact that both the parents James and Gertrude died exactly when she said they did.Then we found Eileen W Pinches marriage in 1941 to an Edward J Haydon.......it just has to be correct.
Eileen remarried in USA and died in 2007,dob was as given 6th July 1921.
Also there had been twins born to the Pinches before Eileen who had died shortly after birth,all what the OP had been led to believe.It all fits..
Dickensfan,there are no immigration records as she most probably flew out to the USA.
Ships indexes mostly covered times before the 2nd world war when people didn't yet fly as a matter of course.Maybe she even met your dad over here during war time and flew back with him?
Carol
-
Carol with all due respect the OP said she had her mothers birth cert and if she had her grandmothers maiden name would be on that however there is no mention of the maiden name therefore the full details have not been given and no one has to my knowledge asked what maiden name was given on the birth cert.
Another reading of the OP's posts throw up another anomaly and that is the fact the church placed her with another family. If she had been orphaned then the state would have put her into a childrens home until such time as an adoption could be secured if at all. During this time Barnado's and other charitable organisations provided these services.
I would if this was my case go back to that birth certificate and see what the maiden name is given on there. I understand based on what you have been told that the parentage thats been found is a possible. I just think that people have run off to be helpful armed with half the facts and not really asked the one question that should have been asked at.
Rob
-
The poster has said she has her mother's birthdate & her Grandparents names. That's not the same as having her birth cert. which is what we've been looking for.
We are up to speed.
-
Which takes me back to my initial point all you have to go on is an oral history and the married surname. We all know how DOB's can be shall we say massaged. There are far to many questions left and other options that need exploring but I shall leave it at that
-
If a church was involved what about the catholic childrens society I think it would be a few years after before formal adoption came in. Dickensfan, we tried the priest at the time and no records were there and the diocese in b'ham said were we sure they were christened there. It was a good few years ago and they were not really helpful. I do think the mount church is the more likely but there is another st marys round the time as previously mentioned. I'll try to gt to the archives as soon as I can.
-
Carol with all due respect the OP said she had her mothers birth cert and if she had her grandmothers maiden name would be on that however there is no mention of the maiden name therefore the full details have not been given and no one has to my knowledge asked what maiden name was given on the birth cert.
Dickensfan said that she had ordered her mothers birth cert- but then as Liz pointed out to her,under what name? She said she'd put in a request with her name as Eileen Winifred Haydon and the date as 6th July 1921. See Liz's reply number 34 from yesterday.
That of course will not be found and she will get her money back.
She also had her mum's passport,under the name of Haydon.But then of course that would have been her legally married name by then.
She was 5 when her dad died but 14 when her mum died (both the Pinches deaths).
You would expect to have been working at that age back then ,so she wasn't a 'child' as such.
Carol
-
Carol, there is no need to defend what you (mainly) have done. We are all aware of the potential pitfalls in this. All we have achieved is to set up an hypothesis for testing and you have set out a logical step-by-step approach to doing that. That's about all we can do for now.
Dickensfan, it will be interesting to see how you get on, but best wishes, anyway.
Dion.
-
I think we are all aware, acorngen, then the Pinches course of events needs more work ( in the form of obtaining some certs) to back it up - or to squash it.
But looking at the evidence so far, it ticks nearly every box. Therefore, in tbe absence of any other leads (do you have any?) it is worth pursuing to rule it in or out.
From the details originally given by the op, ie an Eileen Winifred Hàydon, born 6 July 1921, parents James and Gertrude dying in 1925 and 1936, Etc, it soon became apparent there was something not straightforward about this - there were no people of those names and the right ages around. Research founnd the Pinches family, and they fitted all the criteria to a tee. Of course, you are right, it is possible there is a completely different scenario - but research has not turned up any evidence to suggest anything else at the moment.
Given the number of things that tie up with the Pinches, it would be a phenomenal number of coincidences if it turned out not to be that, but, if that does prove to the case, then it will be back to the drawing board to consider other possible scenarios - but as to what they could be we can only guess, as there are no other leads.
If there were other leads, then of course they would be being followed up too. But it would be rather silly not to follow this very very strong lead up, just because it might not be right! That is the whole idea - to see if it is! If we just put it on tbe back burner, ignoring tbe compelling evidence found thus far, and hunted around for any different leads, we could be wasting a lot of time and effort if this was the correct series of events all along! Especially, as already said, as yet no other 'ideas'or theories HAVE produced any leads.
There is a lot on this thread for Dickensfan to take in, and think about. Lets leave her to do just that. We are here if she wishes to ask anything, and will willingly help where we can.
(Red writing, Dionysis, meaning you are posting the same time - I'll post anyway, though you have put it a LOT better than I did!)
-
You are correct that I do not have a birth certificate. I have, however, ordered a copy of mom's passport. Do any of you know what information would have appeared on a British passport in the 40's? If it included a maiden name and if mom told the truth (if this is her), that could confirm our suspicions. It is also possible that it would have her actual address. If so, we might be able to confirm where she lived with James Haydon. I will go ahead and order birth certificates on the Pinches. Mom never said anything about her or her mother working. She used to go into great detail about all the things they did together during the day. I realize that could all be false but it would seem to be an odd thing to bother fabricating. Again, thank you everyone for all you're doing to put this puzzle together.
-
It would have been fairly unusual for a married woman to work in that era. So your Mum could well have had fond memories of spending time with her mum during the day, as a child, in school holidays.
I know I have such memories of similar times with my Mum.
-
Good luck with getting a passport- I have an American friend who tried to do the same,to get her mum's 1940's UK passport to confirm some things.
They said they didn't have any records from that time.
Carol
-
I'll let you all know if I get lucky and get the passport. I was able to google a picture of my possible brother's home. It's quite lovely. Tudor style - also my favorite. Another coincidence??? If the Pinches are my grandparents do you think it will be possible to find their graves? That is what started this odd journey.
Would it be ok to just give you my first name? Dickensfan is a bit lengthy. If not, that's fine.
-
Would it be ok to just give you my first name? Dickensfan is a bit lengthy. If not, that's fine.
Yes please do Diane ;D ;D ;D
-
Thank you. As to my dad, mom met him during her travels when she stopped in New Orleans. He was seven years younger than her and Italian. They were together until dad died and she never remarried. Diane
-
If the Pinches are my grandparents do you think it will be possible to find their graves?
This site gives details of Walsall cemeteries
http://cms.walsall.gov.uk/index/community_and_living/register-office/death_and_bereavement/cemeteries.htm
Scroll down and there is an address you could write to.
-
Thank you Liz. You've been extremely helpful and kind. Diane
-
I can't find the section in my search where someone gave me the names of Eileen Pinches' siblings. I've been a bit overwhelmed by all the information (and content) and I'm still getting accustomed to the site. I apologize for the inconvenience. thank you, Diane
-
It's in reply #24
No inconvenience - we all realise that there is a lot for you to take in.
Just ask away if you need help.
-
Took me a while and I posted it! Reply #24. Do you need the references? (I didn't make a note, but they're easily rediscovered.)
-
Dion, thank you. I may try to find the elder daughter, Gertrude, at some point. She would be 107 now so I don't think she's living. Mom never mentioned a sister but all the rest is pretty much like she said. Guess I'll never know the whole story but I would have never found any of this had it not been for the kindness of everyone on this site. I'll post when all the certificates come in.
-
Please excuse my math. 97 years old, not 107. Diane
-
Children of Pinches-Prior: Gertrude b.1916 and twins Henry and Joseph both birth and death Dec 1918 Walsall - the twins mentioned?
I hadn't even bothered looking for the twins birth/deaths as the OP said they were stillborn- they weren't if they were registered,they lived ,even for a short time.
Still births were not registered till 1927 and even then the indexes are not open for public viewing.
Yet another coincidence - the fact that there were older twins!
And the Gertrude M died Jun 1919, age 2. So before Eileen was born.
Hi Diane, (Assuming the Pinches' are the right family, and I believe they are) Eileen's sister Gertrude was b. 1916 and died 1919, before Eileen was born so she may not have known about her - see Liz's post #29.
I have been following this fascinating thread from the start and want to wish you good luck with your research. Looking forward to hearing what the certs reveal.
Jool
-
Thank you everyone. That would explain why mom never mentioned her. I guess there are not too many pieces left to the puzzle. Oddly, this same thing happened to my law partner's father. Her father believed his mother to have been abducted and likely killed when he was 11. When he was 80, we found her. She had passed on by then but her life after she left was extraordinary. I'll keep everyone updated. Diane
-
I just found the house where the Pinches were living when my grandfather passed away and the house is still there. It looks just like mom described it. Also, it's only two streets over from Williows Road where mom said she lived.
-
Has anyone found any indication that Edward J. Haydon (Eileen Pinches' husband) ever remarried? Thank you, Diane
-
I cant see a later marriage for him in the index at all.
-
Hi Diane
I have looked for a marriage, but I could not find one, I must say I do sympathise with you, I have a similar situation, where I have found an half brother, for my half brother, unfortunately he did not follow this up, and his half brother has passed away this year, and they never made contact.
All the best Marg x
-
I just typed up a long reply and it's vanished.
There are only 4 marriages of an Edward J Haydon,one is to Eileen PInches the others are too recent or in totally the wrong area,and we know he died in Staffs.
Probably best to wait the couple of weeks for the certs to arrive now Diane and check that we have the right family before doing any more research.
Carol
-
thank you Liz. Diane
-
Thanks Marj and Carol. Just to be sure I've ordered the correct certificates, I ordered Eileen Pinches' birth certificate, but I used the date I had. I wonder if they will search further since Carol's records said September rather than July. I may have to send for another. I also sent for the death certificates of James and Gertrude Haydon and the passport record on Eileen Haydon. What else do you think I need? Diane
-
I find this slightly irritating. Some sources use Jul and some Sep for the same quarter Jul-Sep. From that it looks like you should be okay.
-
That's good to know Dion. Thank you.
-
You shouldn't really have added a date at all- you normally tick the box on the front of the form that asks "Is the ref number known" and then fill in the red starred boxes on the 2nd page. If you give them any other info and it differs ever so slightly they won't send the cert,but they don't tell you why.
We're all waiting with baited breath to see if it's right or not ;)
Carol
-
Well, I hope I get the certificate. If not, I'll keep trying. Can you think of others I might need? I've been in touch with the links Liz gave me for the burial sites. The Local History Center did a preliminary search and found nothing at St. Mary's or the municipal cemetery. I am going to send payment for the next level search. It would be a shame if I came this far and then couldn't find the graves. :'(
-
You'll know much more when you get the death certs,they will have an address where each of them died on it,giving you a much better idea of which was the nearest church or cemetery.
I was thinking today of all the babies they lost in each generation,Gertrude,the twins and then the baby born in the 1940's,before the chap who is still alive.
I will PM you tomorrow with a few more of my thoughts on how you might word a letter to him.
Carol
-
I was looking back through our string of emails and noticed that in entry #9 Liz references a marriage between Eileen "M" Pinches and James Haydon whereas in entry #23 Carol says Eileen "W". Can we confirm which is correct?
-
Carol, in response to #88 I've been thinking the same thing. My grandparents lost 3 babies, then grandmother lost her husband then died of breast cancer. Mom left alone at 14 then lost a child of her own. I always knew mom's life was tragic, but if all our leads are correct, it's even more tragic than before. I can see how you might just run away. I'd appreciate your help in a PM.
-
I was looking back through our string of emails and noticed that in entry #9 Liz references a marriage between Eileen "M" Pinches and James Haydon whereas in entry #23 Carol says Eileen "W". Can we confirm which is correct?
The GRO Index does say Eileen M but it's a error as there is nobody called Eillen M Pinches.
But if you order the marriage cert you HAVE to ask for it exactly as the index has it typed.
-
Carol,
I have ordered many certs where there is a middle initial and left that middle initial out. I have never had a problem with receiving them. In fact unless the middle name is now given in full I never put that initial down
Rob
-
Rob,the GRO Instructions say that the form should be completed exactly as the index.
I suppose it depends on how pedantic the person fullfilling the order is?
In the early days when I used to go up to the FRC in Clerkenwell I ordered a cert for my grandad who had 2 middle names. I later discovered when they failed to send it that the 1893 birth index only has him as Henry Albert and not his 3rd very distinctive name.
The cert has it and so do all his later records,Army,Marriage and death!
Carol
-
Carol,
I havent looked for a long time at the requirements for the GRO so I accept what you are saying. I was just stating the way I apply from the GRO
Rob
-
The form didn't even request a middle name when I filled it out so hopefully it will be accepted. If not, I'll keep filling them out until I get it right! I checked my birth certificate and Mom was listed as Eileen Winifred Haydon. If any of the documents I receive contain her signature I will know then for sure. She had a very beautiful and distinctive signature/handwriting. In fact she said she won a handwriting competition in school once. If I receive her marriage license I'm hoping it will be on it. If not, I may try to get the birth certificate of the child that died. Any other suggestions? ??? ???
-
Her signature will be on the marriage cert. The birth cert will only have the signature of either the mother or father not both.
Carol I just checked the GRO and it doesnt say anywhere that middle names/initials have to be given but I didnt check everything
Rob
-
Then I hope I filled out the marriage certificate request correctly. That will be the final piece of the puzzle. No one could write like mom. It was almost calligraphy. I'll let everyone know when I hear something. I'm paying for a search of the burial sites and hope I find my grandparents. If I do, you are all welcome to join me for the laying of the flowers followed by a heck of a party! ;D ;D
-
Diane ,if you're lucky enough to get a photocopy of the cert they signed at the time,then you will get her signature.If not you may well get a marriage cert that has been handwritten by a member of the General Record Office,although they are becoming less common than was the case when I started my family history over 30 years ago.
Once you know which church she married at (by seeing a copy of the cert!) then you could get a photocopy of the original from the Staffs record office.
Let's wait and see what they send first.
Carol
-
That's good to know. I didn't think about her signature until I looked at my birth certificate this morning. Then the light bulb went off. How do people find pictures of their ancestors like those above?
-
Let me know if you need the church entry looked up, with any luck it can be looked up at Walsall or Lichfield as well depending on church. I'm stuck in tomorrow waiting for a contractor to come in, should be a morning appointment. Walsall is closed on a Friday open on a Saturday morning but Stafford is open tomorrow. I'll try and do the electoral roll as soon as I can. Need to go to moms next week and she lives 10 mins away from the record office.
-
Weste, that is so kind of you. I can only guess they were married at St. Mary's on the Mount but it would be a guess only. Mom was not happy with that church for placing her with those people that treated her badly so she may have gone elsewhere.
-
You're welcome. I wonder whether the reg office itself was used. My great grandfather had supposedly previously married and his wife died and then he lived with who is supposed to be granddads mom , she's in 2 census but she died in 1904 and so we'll probably never know her previous name as she took his assumed name. She was catholic and would n't marry him and we don't whether it was because she was married before or because of him or both. That's why we contacted st mary's originally. She is put as his wife on her death cert. I may just attempt to look at the electoral when I go until you get your cert. I'd go sooner rather later but you know what it's like waiting in for people especially when they fail to turn up or keep to time. My granddad's half brother is in the same grave as granddads mom so we presume he was catholic but who knows what was said and we've got mysteries and done as well but I think you've got more chance of solving it. I really hope this is solved.
-
Thanks Weste. Your mystery sounds a lot like mine. Yes, we may be able to solve mine. One signature could do. If you run into any expense please let know and I'll be happy to reimburse you. Diane
-
The records are free to search.
-
that's great. You're very kind to check. Diane
-
Hi everyone. I just wanted to share my wonderful news. The history center found my grandparents' graves (assuming I have the right names now). They are in Ryecroft Cemetary. So I can finally do what I set out to do and put flowers on their graves when we visit in April. I want you all to know how grateful I am for all of your help in accomplishing this. It means more to me than words can say. Hopefully, when all the certificates arrive it will confirm my ancestors' names. I will keep everyone updated. Best wishes, Diane/Dickensfan
-
That's brilliant. What names did they find them under. Have they actually got headstones do you know? Hopefully they've given you directions to the plots and grave numbers. I know they have ryecroft cem records at walsall archives anyway. It's not far out of the town centre. If by bus get one going towards coalpool as it will go past the cem. I've got cremated remains of relatives in the memorial garden there and also those 2 relatives i mentioned. Which area of the churchyard were they in the non conformist?
-
They have mailed me all the specifics. I can't answer your questions until I get that. They just told me the cemetery via email. Once I get the specifics I may need your help on how I actually locate the graves. I'm assuming this is not a small graveyard. Thank you for all your help Weste. Diane
-
I very much doubt there are headstones,they would have to be fairly rich to have them and have younger family members to upkeep them.As their only child was just a youngster I doubt she would have arranged for a headstone.
Seems odd that they insisted on snail mailing the results,I wonder why?
Carol
-
Yes the cem is a decent size. I have one rel buried in that cem of which my mystery is about. His burial entry gives both names on. I would expect to see it on the index with both names but not the burial entry. I don't know whether that's usual or not. As far as i know there are not any monumental inscriptions done for it. Sometimes by the entry they mention gravestones in some records. If we find they've got one i'll photograph them for you. Also ryecroft used to be a crematorium as well until streetley cem . They have interred ashes there. Also perhaps they may be in a public grave with no marker. Hopefully by the time i pop over to moms next week you'll know more. You would think they would email , would n't you but it may be the way they work.
-
I'm so pleased that you eventually got an answer to your original post! Even though the route to get to it was something I am sure none of us would ever have thought of, finding a possible half brother!
As Carol said, dont be disappointed if there is no headstone. But hopefully the cemetery stuff when it arrives will allow you to find the exact plot. If there is a headstone, it will be a lovely bonus.
I know we are all eager to hear when the birth certificate arrives for Eileen, to see the exact date of birth. Do keep us informed! We also all hope you have a great trip to England in the spring.
-
I didn't think about the headstone thing. I guess I'll just have to get them one! Not sure why they are mailing it when they had my email address. Oh well. I'll let everyone know if there is anything interesting to report. Best wishes.
-
Sorry Liz, I didn't see your message for some reason. Thank you. I'll definitely let everyone know when the certificates start arriving. It should be early October. Yes, this has been quite a journey and its not over yet. Best wishes, Diane
-
Sorry Weste, I didn't see your entry either. Didn't notice we had started a new page. That's very kind of you to check for a headstone. That would be wonderful I'll let you know as soon as I get the papers. Best regards, Diane
-
I didn't think about the headstone thing. I guess I'll just have to get them one!
Diane, you may not be allowed to put one there,it depends on the policy of the cemetery.
My grandad has a WW2 war grave,my grandma and uncle were later buried in the same grave.
The family never got round to putting a headstone for them,and they weren't allowed to 'deface' the army one. A couple of years ago my cousin and I decided to see if we could add a small stone.
The first question the council asked was " who owns the grave"...luckily my cousins does,being the only child of my uncle,who was the oldest child of my grandparents.
So we were allowed to add an open book stone with both names on it.
My mum would have been pleased to know that we finally got that done.
You have plenty of time to sort it all out before next spring though ;D
Carol
-
Boy, nothings ever easy is it? I guess we'll take it step by step. See if there is one there already and, if not, see what I have to do to get permission to place one. So is there anything at all marking the graves so that you know who is there - a little plate or something? Or is it just a plot number?
-
I would imagine it's an area that is now all grassed over. My husband's baby brothers grave is like that and that's only from 1949. The cemeteries prefer that so they can mow the grass easily and keep it tidier.
-
Here you go Diane,some rules and regulations of Ryecroft Cemetery,to give you something to read over the weekend ;D ;D ;D
http://cms.walsall.gov.uk/rules_and_regulations_2007.pdf
-
Oh boy. Thank you Carol. I will study it.
-
Yes I studied it recently myself in case we scattered uncles ashes there. Yes I would n't be surprised if its grassed over now. Perhaps if not a stone, see if name can be added to the memorial book which is mentioned on the ryecroft site and its left open at the page of the entry on the birthday but what if someone has the same date. Or contact the woodland trust and have a tree planted in his memory. I think the best thing you can do is make sure it's documented well in your family history for future generations.
-
Those are nice suggestions Weste. There won't be future generations on my side though. I don't have children. If I can ever get in touch with my half brother I hope he'll want to see the site too. I still haven't gotten the information in the mail. I did email them this morning to see if they will at least give me the plot number. I'll be back in touch. :)
-
I will probably be nipping in to Walsall archives this week as I need to go to the open day for the family history group I belong to which is on Saturday. I'll probably go to the archives before then. So if you need me to look at ryecroft cem records let me know. I'll do the electoral roll look up when you get your info as it'll be easier. I cannot believe in this day they are using snail mail. We had a one to one with the archivist to try to overcome our problem which you said reminded you of yours and she could n't suggest doing anything different to what we 've done. The second name was used when he went in the army but guess what, the weekend I found he'd applied and got kicked out of the hussars for being medically unfit in 1914. Yet he managed to get in the following year in another regiment! One thing it did clear up is that he was roman catholic and that's probably why he's in the grave with granddads mother! So keep chipping away.
-
Thank you for the words of encouragement Weste. I've been at this for over a decade so I'm not giving up. I learned more in one day from your group than the entire time I was searching. Of course it does seem to help when you have the right name! I hope I will get the plot number soon. Diane
-
Hi Weste. I received the burial records yesterday. They are not buried together but they are in the same division. It's Division 9. That appears to be northwest of the Garden of Remembrance along the same road. The grave type is listed as a three. There are 6 types. 1 is a private plot nearest to the path and 1's are pauper's graves. So we are in the middle. The plot numbers are 389 for James Henry Pinches and 50 for Gertrude Pinches (no middle name). I have a map showing where Division 9 is but I don't know how to attach it to this message. I assume there will be a map there. If you can find them and tell me what to expect I would truly appreciate it. Kindest regard, Diane
-
Weste, if you need the map, please send me a PM and I can send it to an email address for you. Thanks again, Diane
-
Hi everyone. Just wanted to tell you the wonderful news. I located my half brother (with alot of help from Carol), and he had his dad and my mom's wedding picture. It was her. That was the final piece of the puzzle. We have been in constant contact ever since. He has a wonderful family. I would have never found him if it had not been for all of you. I cannot express my gratitude enough. If any of you would like to meet while I'm in Walsall visiting my new family, please send me a PM. Thank you again for everything you did to help me find my family. Best wishes to you all. Diane/Dickensfan.
-
Brilliant stuff.
Have a great visit with your new found family.
jim
-
This is absolutely brilliant Diane, you have found your pot of gold, at the end of the rainbow
All the very best for your future, with your new found family
Marg x
-
Thank you everyone. It has been an unexpected blessing. Best wishes, Diane
-
Hi Diane
That's fantastic news! Have fun getting to know your new found family, I'm sure you have a lot of stories to share. I bet you can't wait to get to Walsall ;D
Jool
-
That's wonderful news. I am so pleased that you have solved the puzzle and found your family. Have a wonderful time getting to know each other
Chris
-
Diane did you realise that today is his birthday- what a birthday pressie eh?
-
Yes, thanks Carol. I sent emails and an e-card. He loved it. It was weird that I just happened to check his profile this morning and saw his birthday. I really feel that a higher power has been guiding this entire process. It might be mom. Thanks again everyone for your kind sentiments. Can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to the trip. It went from sightseeing to something entirely different. Best wishes, Diane
-
Hi Diane
I hope you don't mind me asking this, but was you brother aware that he had a sister
Marg
-
No Marg, he was as surprised as I was but extremely happy. I was so glad because it could have easily gone the other way. Diane
-
I am SO pleased that you have made contact and that it has all worked out well.
When you made your first post on here looking for graves of your grandparents, and we started looking for info for you, none of us thought the research would have ended in such a way!
I do hope you have a wonderful time when you come over to England.
-
Thank you Liz. Yes, I would have never believed it either. When I tell my family and friends about it they are just amazed. They all said we should make a movie. I've changed my plans for England quite a bit. Now I'll be in Walsall visiting family more. I can always come back for the castles. Not everyone gets a brother for Christmas! Kindest regards, Diane
-
It's such a shame that at such an early age she was the only one left from a family of 6 & all alone in the world.
It makes one believe she was making sure this wasn't going to happen to her children.
jim
-
My brother has her diaries from the year her mother died and then when she was 17 and 18. He is sending them to me. I know she always missed her mother terribly. She didn't really remember her dad. She must have been terribly lonely as a young woman. I can't wait to see them and the pictures he's sending. :) Diane
-
Hi everyone. Just wanted to update you and give you a new challenge since you were so brilliant on the first one. After finding my grandparents' graves I decided to look for my half brother Paul's grave. He died at one of whooping cough. The Bereavement center found it. The mystery comes in the fact that he was buried with two other people, Edward Hayden (with an e not an o) and Alice Hayden. I found birth records on both of those individuals but couldn't find a link to Paul. My brother said there has always been a controversy in the family about whether their name is spelled incorrectly. So here is the information that may help. We're hoping that Edward and Alice are Paul's grandparents or at least relatives. We know that Paul's father was Edward John Haydon, born 10-14-12. Died in 1995. He is buried at St. Mary's. I don't have a birth certificate for him but maybe one of you can find the names of his parents. The other people in Paul's grave are Edward Hayden age 73. He died on 5/26/55, and Alice Hayden, died 10/31/31. Thanks for everything. I facetime with my new family every day and it's wonderful, all thanks to you. Diane
-
Hi
It is going to be difficult to be sure without the birth cert of Edward, pauls dad, in 1912.
As he was born after the last available census, we wont be able to see him on a census with his parents.
We can look around for Edwards and Alices in previous censuses, but it would only be guesswork as to whether they are Edward (bn 1912) ' s parents.
-
Does your surviving half brother have a copy of his Dads birth cert?
Or does he know if his Dad had any siblings? Especially any born pre1911?
Does he know his grandparents names?
-
No, he does not have his birth certificate or any information on his grandparents. I'll just order it from the GRO. I had the same problem with the censuses last night. I just thought I was not searching properly. I'll be back in touch. Thank you, Diane
-
Have pm'd you a possible.
It might be easier if he was to order the birth cert, being in England? I dont know how long they take to get to USA!
-
Or you could order it, and have it sent to your brothers house
Marg
-
Or you could order it, and have it sent to your brothers house
Marg
Good thinking Marg ;D
-
A possible marriage
Edward Haydon to
Alice Bagnall
July Qtr 1902
Walsall
6b
1221
Marg
-
Birth Record
Edward J Haydon
Oct Qtr 1912
Mother maiden name Bagnall
Marg
-
There is one other Haydon/Bagnal child born in 1917
Margp
-
Can you tell me the name of the additional child or is it in PM?
-
Marg, I think you could be on the right track ;)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWWQ-TTK
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWWQ-TT2
-
Birth Alice Bagnall Mar Q 1881 Walsall 6b 689
-
Hi - just to bring you up to date on the thread:
Diane has found a possible family in 1911, but of course this is before Edwards birth.
One of the reasons it is likely is that there are several daughters there, and she understands that Edward had several sisters. Also, it leads to the marriage that has been found, to Alice Bagnall,which of course ties up with Edwards mum's maiden name from the birth index.
-
My brother found the grave and it has their names on stones that surround the grave and it's spelled Haydon, not Hayden. thank you everyone. Diane
-
Hello everyone. I just wanted to update you all. I will be meeting my family for the first time in Walsall in April. We are having a get together there. If any of you would like to join us we would love to have you as our guests and thank you in person for everything you did to help me find my family. Please send me PM if you'd like to come and I'll give you all the details. Best wishes to all of you. Diane
-
I hope you have a great time at your get together in Walsall.
Unfortunately Walsall is several hours drive from me, so it would not be practical for me to consider joining you. But I thank you for the invite, and wish you a wonderful time.
-
Thank you for everything you did. Can't tell you how much we are all looking forward to this. Best wishes. Diane
-
Hi Diane
Walsall is just up the road from me, and I would love to come, if the dates are right, I will PM you
Marg
-
Great. I'll look for your PM!
-
As you know Dianne,we'll be there !!!
;D ;D ;D
Carol
-
Absolutely. Can't wait to meet you and hubby!
-
MargP. Hope you got my PM that of course you can bring your hubby. Looking forward to meeting you both. My niece said we're going to be met at the train by reporters. That will be interesting. Is it OK if I mention this site and give all of you the credit for finding my family? Diane
-
OK by me - but I think you should check with Trystan and Sarah.
I'll refer this to a moderator so they can refer it on to them if necessary, and let you know what the Rootschat policy on such things is.
Out of interest - how did the reporters know of your story?
-
My new grand niece is with the BBC and she told them. They thought it was a wonderful story but said it should be covered locally. So I guess we might be in the Walsall paper. Diane
-
Well that would be Walsall observer, the chronicle or the express and star then.
-
That will be interesting. Is it OK if I mention this site and give all of you the credit for finding my family? Diane
Hi Diane, that would more than OK :D :D Oh what exciting news this has made my day!!
Sarah :)
-
Well that would be Walsall observer, the chronicle or the express and star then.
Are you coming Weste
-
thank you Sarah. I'll give you all a great write up. You realize everybody will be wanting your help after they read this! Diane
-
Sarah, if you'd like to give me a little backgound about the site, that would be great. Diane :) :) :)
-
Oh WOW- we'll all be famous !!!
-
Oh WOW- we'll all be famous !!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Diane, I bet next month can not come soon enough...will send you an email :)
Sarah :)
-
You're right. I still have so much to do. Can't imagine what it will be like. Thank heavens for Facetime. It's been wonderful seeing the family and speaking with them. It's all thanks to your site! Hugs to all, Diane
-
Well the great meet up has happened,sister met brother(and all his family) and a fabulous time was had by all. They even got a mention on Midlands today TV,see below, at around 2 min 47 onwards.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0403pkw/Midlands_Today_13_04_2014/
A few of us went up to Walsall and hopefully can get some pics put up on Rootschat later?
Carol
To fast forward to the clip it is about 2.49 :)
-
So pleased it all went well. I did think of you all.
Guess this thread is now completed! ! ! We better get working on another one, Carol!
-
The brother and sister reunion.
-
Have lovely Carol to see the film of the Dianne and John, loved the bit about the necklace called "spike"
Sad that BBC Midlands today did not mention RootsChat Yay they have now added a link to the thread :D Edited
Oh yes please would love to see the pictures..!!!
Sarah :)
-
Diane did say that she would mention us,maybe the Beeb felt they had to edit that bit out?
Marg is the one with all the pics. I only took two!
We bought Diane a book about Walsall in the hope that she might learn a little about where her mum grew up.There was a mention of leather workers in it,who knows some of them may be her ancestors!
They were hoping to go to the house their mum grew up in yesterday....and gatecrash LOL
I wonder if anyone was in and if they let them in to browse ?
-
Saw the TV clip & what a great ending particularly when you consider all she wanted to know was where her Grandparents were buried & we see her at the graveside with a brother she never knew she had.
This has to go down as one of Roots' greatest successes.
jim
-
They were hoping to go to the house their mum grew up in yesterday....and gatecrash LOL
I wonder if anyone was in and if they let them in to browse ?
What a great idea, if you don't ask you don't get ;D ;D
The photograph is beautiful don't they both look so happy !! How thoughtful Carol with the book on Walsall it would be fun if it did mention some of Dee's rellies!
Sarah
-
when you consider all she wanted to know was where her Grandparents were buried & we see her at the graveside with a brother she never knew she had.
This has to go down as one of Roots' greatest successes.
Agreed. Even surpasses the Teddy Bear story by miles.
-
Hi,
What a great success for RootsChat, although we never got a mention on the broadcast. Great team effort with a special mention to "lizdb" and "carol8353", who were there from the start, and did so much to help. Well done, ladies.
Tom
-
Well done Rootschatters ;D What a great story!
Milly
-
Hi all
Here is a reunion photo
-
We had a great reunion party on Saturday, and I met Carol who did a lot of the work, also Jean (weste) who also contributed, and credit should also go to the others on the Topic, who could not attend the reunion like lizdb who made the breakthrough in finding her correct birth record
Margp
-
What a brilliant story - I was directed to it from the Rootschat page on FB. Congratulations all involved, you must be feeling very proud.
-
I must say that they were a lovely family. I don't think any of us have ever been thanked so much in our lives. We were made so welcome. Pity rootschat was n't mentioned but they probably did n't want to advertise, after all without rootschat how would we have got involved in it!
-
A big well done to all the Chatters involved, what a great result. I followed this fascinating thread from the start and couldn't believe how it turned out. It was lovely to see Diane meet her brother for the first time, and the photos are great. :D
-
At last Rootschat gets a mention ;D ;D ;D
http://www.walsalladvertiser.co.uk/Tears-John-meets-sister-knew/story-20970635-detail/story.html
Although the date is wrong in the article,Saturday was 12th April( a date Diane and her brother will never forget!)
Carol
-
And you, Carol, were the kind lady that the article mentions, who helped her make the actual contact with John via Facebook etc.
So most of your hard work isn't on this thread, as once it moved into the realm of living people, you were liaising with Diane directly.
So extra recognition must go to Carol for going that extra mile (or several miles!) to achieve this great outcome.
-
Thanks Liz :-[ :-[ :-[
-
That's a lovely write-up in the Walsall Advertiser... Really moving. It brought a few tears to my eyes.
Milly (feeling proud of my fellow Rootschatters) ;D
-
Hi everyone. Rootschat didn't make tv but it was in the newspaper and I think on the radio. We had a wonderful time and it was so great finally meeting some of the people that made it happen. Wish you could have all come to the party. We had a great time. We did go to our mum's old house and after we explained why we were there the people invited us in and we got to see the house. They were lovely. The house was wonderful. I just dissolved in tears to see where she grew up. I checked the Walsall book last night. Didn't find any relatives but the book was great. Thank you for the lovely gift (and the map). Everyone was so sweet. Maybe more of you can join us for the next visit or come see us in the US. Hugs to all and thank you once again. Diane xxx
-
Hi. Are you ready for this? We may be in a magazine next. I gave each of the prior reporters a prepared statement and it had your chat names in it (those of you who gave me permission). Wish they would have mentioned it. Maybe the next one will catch it. All of you certainly deserve the credit. I'll let you know which magazine if it happens. Best wishes, Diane
-
Just seen the write up in tonight's express and star. At this rate you are both gonna be proper celebs rather than local interest stories!
-
Here's a link to the Express and Star article mentioned by weste
http://www.expressandstar.com/editors-picks/2014/05/10/brother-finally-finds-his-long-lost-sister/
-
Here is the link I hope this works
http://www.expressandstar.com/editors-picks/2014/05/10/brother-finally-finds-his-long-lost-sister/
Marg x
-
Snap
-
Marg, I was just about to post snap, that would have been snap again, ;D ;D
Nice to see Rootschat gets a mention again :D
-
Marg, I was just about to post snap, that would have been snap again, ;D ;D
Nice to see Rootschat gets a mention again :D
Yes It is Jool, I see you are from my neck of the woods
-
This really is a wondrous outcome! It's good to know that our efforts can be valuable in real lives and not just an academic treasure-hunt. I wasn't sure whether to post the information about John's birth in case he was alive and preferred his anonymity, but the possibility that he or a child would be able to meet up was too compelling. My doubts seem silly, now.
Best wishes to all
Dion
-
Diane has just emailed me( she can't seem to reply on here at the moment) she said the story may be going into the National Papers soon.They've just interviewed her and she mentioned Rootschat!
Carol
Dion still not sure you should be mentioning her brother by name,as he's still very much alive ;)
-
Here we go ...in the Daily Mail !!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626203/Emotional-pictures-moment-English-grandfather-72-finally-meets-long-lost-American-sister.html
-
What a shame that Facebook and iPad get several mentions and yet Rootschat isn't named. Without RC and the brilliant people who tracked the family down none of it would have happened.
-
My thoughts as well Groom
-
Diane said that she did mention Rootschat,but bl**dy journalists write what they like >:(
-
What a wonderful story!
I don't use RootsChat as much as I should so I've only just seen this. Who would have thought all of this would come from a simple posting asking for advice on finding a grave?
Well done to everyone who helped!
-
(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/q71/s480x480/10427355_10154306479140195_1603960919764741415_n.jpg)
I am not sure if this will work another story for Dee and John
-
Diane and her brother are going to be on the BBC and she wants to give some publicity to Rootschat as well. She has asked me to ask the rest of the ladies who helped if I can mention them as well. Thank you, Diane.
PM Diane or reply here,if you don't mind being mentioned.
She asked if I would talk on the phone to the BBC,but I declined,it's not the sort of thing I am happy with.
Regards
Carol
-
Hi Carol
I hope you fully recovered and are well, when is it going to be on the TV
Marg x
-
You can mention me!
-
I take it that's a follow on as to how they've got on and what's happened since? Don't blame you carol. I heard what itv did with arthur and george drama!
-
No need to mention me because I don't want to be famous, but remember that it was me that found the brother link.
Don't take all the credit for yourselves!
Dion
-
I don't think that anyone involved, would take the sole credit for this, due to the nature of the Topic, a lot of information was given be hind closed doors, and it was a good group effort for all involved, for RootsChat.
-
Well said.
-
yes agreed marg p!
-
The series is due to start next week,although looking at the write up in the Radio Times,Diane's story isn't going to be featured next week.Keep your eyes pealed gang ;D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05z61xy
-
Hi Carol
Dee asked me to go to John's house on the Friday for an interview, and I said yes, to promote Roots, little did I know that it ended up with 3 hours of filming at my house, on the Thursday, and then an hour at John's house on the Friday, it was an experience, but very nerve racking
Marg x
-
What a Film Star Marg :-* :-* !!! I can not wait to see you on the Telly :D
Sarah
-
Diane did say they recorded something in America and then sent it over,she has no idea how much the Beeb will cut though,so you might not even be on the telly Marg ;D ;D ;D
-
Yes Carol
I could have been rubbish, and they may not use me, Ben the man who was filming said, three hours filming, for a three minute slot.
-
three hours filming, for a three minute slot.
lets hope that they don't speed up the film like in the old Benny hill films ;D ;D ;D
-
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Looking forward to it!
This was a great team effort, but I do like to pride myself that I was the one that first got us on the right track, in reply #9!!!!!!!!!
I found my raison-d'etre.
-
Yes Liz all that was filmed whether they use it that's to be seen
Margp
-
little did I know that it ended up with 3 hours of filming at my house, on the Thursday,
That would have caused panic at my house and frantic shoving of stuff out of site into cupboards etc. ;D ;D
-
They'd have had to wield a paint brush in my flat at the moment! Marg p bet you wondered why you'd let yourself in for it!
-
Yes Weste
Yes I nearly pulled out on Thursday morning, but with a lot of encouragement from Sarah, John Hayen, and Ben the camera man, I did for RootsChat, and everyone got a mention, I was just there to tell the story
-
Well done you!
-
Hear Hear.
Thank You MargP.
-
Well done Marg! You've now moved on from Rootschat Party Goer to Rootschat Film Star ;D.
-
Oh stop it lol :) :) :) :)
-
Which is exactly why I turned down the offer to appear on TV ::)
-
Have to practice my curtsey! You will be up for the oscars next.
-
Which is exactly why I turned down the offer to appear on TV ::)
Is that having to clean the house for the TV crew, or becoming a film star, that put you off? ;D
I hope the programme acknowledges all the hard work you put in, Carol, behind the scenes, once we got up to tracing living people and it moved off the rootschat thread.
-
They say that TV adds pounds (llbs not £ ) to you,couldn't afford that incase someone saw me ;D ;D ;D
Also not sure how much visible dust would show up on camera LOL
-
Yes Weste
I am trying to find a place to put it, next Hollywood, on all the TV chat shows, as the world renowned geologist, may be my own TV Show, but this stardom will not go to my head, I will still do my bit for Roots lol
-
Yes Weste
I am trying to find a place to put it, next Hollywood, on all the TV chat shows, as the world renowned geologist, may be my own TV Show, but this stardom will not go to my head, I will still do my bit for Roots lol
Marg,don't forget if you go to the awards ceremony in France,you have to wear stilleto heels,they don't let you in with flatties on LOL x
-
Blimey Carol I never though of that I had better get practising
-
Have you all thought what you are gonna do when you get asked to do someone's family history? The requests wil increase after this! I've been doing 2 lots and that involved going between three record offices as well as online! Lucky they are local ones. A lot of people seem to think you press a button and everything is at you finger tips! Even the local ones are time consuming because a lot know next to zilch about their family history and even when they do, the names are common ones and they have n't even attempted.
-
Patience is the necessary virtue, but we live in an age of impatience. There is a line in a film: "endeavour to persevere". The character who was given that advice was unsure of the meaning, but he was not doing family history!
As Winston said: "keep bu**ering on ..."
-
According to the Radio Times, next Tuesday's edition ( 16th June) is about a woman who is reunited with her half brother....so may be 'our' story?
-
Channel?
-
According to the Radio Times, next Tuesday's edition ( 16th June) is about a woman who is reunited with her half brother....so may be 'our' story?
Hi Carol, unfortunately not the one we are waiting for
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05ztqb8
-
Thing is the person who made the real breakthrough has not been invited.
-
According to the Radio Times, next Tuesday's edition ( 16th June) is about a woman who is reunited with her half brother....so may be 'our' story?
Hi Carol, unfortunately not the one we are waiting for
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05ztqb8
Thanks for the link Jool, It doesn't say anywhere how many episodes there are in total,we do know that it's towards the end of the series.
-
Doesn't this give all the episodes, it looks as if 2 stories are covered in each. I can't see this one though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05z61xy/broadcasts/2015/06
-
I think that there is about 15 episodes
:)
-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b060jxs5
Tuesday 23rd June at 11-30am.
-
Thanks Carol
-
Well done everybody! It's been an amazing effort all around! I guess the time is coming very near now for the big reveal! Here in NZ it is already 23rd June,(albeit only just, it's 12.28am as I type this!) - Your Special Day! But you have a few more hours to wait yet! Hang in there, lock the doors when the time comes, take your phone off the hook and turn off your mobile!
Also walk away from your computer, you don't want to get so absorbed in Rootschat around the time, you might miss it!! Oh dear, that would not be good!
Anyway, this has been a wonderful journey to travel, and you all deserve medals! So happy for the "new" Family!
Jeanne
🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿🌿
-
I'm told the programme we have been waiting on is on at 11.30 tomorrow . That's from di herself.
-
Some fascinating stories in this series. 11:30 BBC1. Different approach to the ITV version, but not far different in the outcome. Obviously, if you're in the right place you can get it in the iPlayer or other catch up.
-
I will be watching and recording for Trystan to watch later, funny though the description (on the box) is for quite a different episode tomorrow.
Sarah
-
I'll watch on catch up as I'll be working.
-
Just watched it.
It was so lovely to see John and Diane . Names turned into real people.
Also lovely to see all the old footage of Eileen, Im sure John must have been thrilled to see the pictures of his Mum.
And a proud moment when I saw my post on the screen, suggesting that she may have been Eileen Pinches who married a Haydon, rather than born a Haydon!
Marg P - you were a real star . Well done. Summed up Rootschat brilliantly, we all work together and share our experience to see what we can find.
This really has been the most wonderful thread, and seeing the wider story on the television has been a wonderful ending.
All the best to Diane and John
-
Loads of new enquiries on the beginners board! Looks like more than a few are looking for living people! So wish I could have seen it, but maybe I'll ger lucky one day and it will screen in NZ!
Jeanne
-
Loads of new enquiries on the beginners board! Looks like more than a few are looking for living people!
The programme's whole emphasis was on the reunion of living people.
It failed to make clear that Rootschat was involved in the part looking for the deaths of Eileens parents, the name of Eileen at birth, her first marriage etc, but then when it moved to the realms of living people the work was not done on Rootschat, but privately by a dedicated R ootschatter. This original enquiry was not to find a living person, but to find where her grandparents died and were buried.
I'm sure Marg explained that to them, but it wasnt shown.
-
Did you see me in the final shot Liz, sat on the table just behind John to his right,chatting to Marg. ;D
-
Hi, had email from Di saying she's glad that rootschat got mentioned at long last and that she's sorry names did n't get mentioned. I said that I like to keep a low profile!
-
Did you see me in the final shot Liz, sat on the table just behind John to his right,chatting to Marg. ;D
I missed you - but will watch it again especially!
-
I saw you but fortunately I did n't see me! 😊 MargaretP what a star!
-
Really enjoyed seeing the story yesterday, How wonderful to see everyone in the flesh ;D ;D
The video's of Diane's Mum with the reunion of John and Diane.. I wonder how many of us shed a happy tear?
Marg you were a star!!
Did you see me in the final shot Liz, sat on the table just behind John to his right,chatting to Marg. ;D
I missed you too - but will watch it again especially! ;D
-
Just watched the episode on tv {i recorded it} What a great story. Well done to all of you involved. This is why we do this hobby {obsession} of ours. Made me feel proud to be a small part of the Rootschat community. ;) :) :D GOD I LOVE GENEALOGY.,,,,,GB ;D
-
I watched it on BBC I-Player and loved it. It was fabulous to see the videos of Eileen, she was a beautiful lady and came across as a fun loving person. Diane and John meeting for the first time was so emotional and the bit about "Spike" brought a tear to my eye.
Marg, as has been said by others, you were a star!!!
It made me really proud to be a member of the Rootschat community. Well done to everyone who contributed towards this thread, and those who worked with Diane "behind the scenes" to help make this happen.
-
Just watched this earlier and thought they did a good job considering. They did mention Rootschat and showed the website which was good. And they did include a tiny bit about lots of people helping out for free. But the programme is called Family Finders so I can understand why they concentrate on the bit about finding living relatives rather than the ancestors and all the old records which is what we are usually more interested in.
I would have liked them to have said a bit more about lots of people from all over the world working together to solve the mystery which is what Rootschat does best and what makes it so special...
But on the whole - not a bad little story they put together. And as usual, I did have a few tears in my eyes watching it.
Milly
-
Wow, I didn't get to see any video or film but 30 pages of quite the read and quite the outcome....Well done!!!! ;D
-
Does anyone know if there is a way it can still be viewed in August? I am coming to The UK in August and would really love to see it! Thanks.
Jeanne 😄
-
Looks like the BBC are repeating the Family Finders series and that our one is due to be on again at 11-45 am on Weds 16th December.
If anyone abroad wants to see it, I believe that various sites now have it online and it can be found if you Google episode 12 Family Finders.
Carol
-
The Radio Times says it's on Weds this week,but the programme guide on the TV doesn't mention episode 12 yet !
Keep an eye out for it in the near future!
-
Hi All
Dee, has asked me to contact, all on here, if they like to attend another reunion, this will be on the 13th of June, at Willington, Derby, if anyone is interested, please PM me for more details
Cheers Marg
-
Not sure marg , thanks for posting it. Hope you and hubby are okay.
-
See ya there Marg, I expect Diane has told you we're coming up?
-
See ya there Marg, I expect Diane has told you we're coming up?
Yes she has, we are going to see John on Friday at the Marina, what time will you be there, we will be there, about midday, we can't stop over due to John's work commitments
Marg x
-
We're stopping over on the Monday night,probably be there mid/late afternoon.
-
We're stopping over on the Monday night,probably be there mid/late afternoon.
See you in June x
-
I'll be with you in thought!
Maybe next time a reunion "down south" ? !