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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Cardiganshire => Topic started by: ivorglyn on Sunday 08 September 13 01:56 BST (UK)
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Dear all,I am trying to find possible marriages for three Morgan/Morgans..1)John Morgan b.Llanddewi-Aberarth ~ 1797 2)David Morgan b.Llanddewi-Aberarth ~1799 and 3)Morgan Morgan b.Llanddewi-Aberarth~1803.The surname could be Morgans.The parents of all three were Richard Morgan b.~1758 and Magdalen b.~1759.Richard died in 1831 and there is a will dated 1832 on the NLW website.John was left £20,David £20 and Morgan £300.David had a son David who was left £20 for an apprenticeship.The address for David Morgan was down as Loegr Fach and the address for John Morgan is difficult to read but looks like 'Grongey'.There is no address for Morgan Morgan.Richard Morgan lived at Brynd(d)ewi and another of his sons Timothy lived there on the 1841W census.Richard and Magdalen had 2 daughters..1)Margaret Morgan b.~1793 who was left £100 and Eizabeth b.~1795 who was left £60.Elizabeth married John Jones and their address was WernyMeirch(Wern Meirch).Any help would be much appreciated
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Dear all,I have found that Morgan Morgan died in 1839.His address was Bryndewi..ivorglyn
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there are some transcribed records for the parish on FreeReg
http://www.freereg.org.uk/
From reading his will, I would say Morgan didn't marry as he makes no provision for family closer than his brothers. Age given on his burial in 1839 is 49, Richard was given as 73 on his burial in 1831 and Magdalen as 74 at her burial in 1833.
Mary Morgan married Thomas Pugh 10/8/1832.
I think the abode for John may begin with F.
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thankyou Osprey.I thought that Morgan hadn't married.I have contacted Llanddewi-Aberarth History Society to hopefully find the dwellings of John and David.Do you know of any other places to look? regards ivorglyn
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As per Osprey's opinion,could the address be Frongoy-there is one not too far away listed at www.old-maps.co.uk as at Pennant,Llanon,Dyfed(postcode SY23 5PD)
If you use the search term Frongoy only two options are presented,one of which is the above.
Regards
Roger
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I think I may have just spotted Frongau on this map, in the neighbouring parish of Llanbadarn Trefeglwys
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Nancwnlle/ParishMap.html
The tithe maps from 1841 could help, they are the National Library in Aberystwyth.
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thankyou osprey and despair..I'll follow up your suggestions..ivorglyn
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Llanddewi Aberarth Burials
Row 31
Richard Morgan, Bryndewi ,this parish, d. 16 Sep. 1831 73 years
Daniel Morgan son of the above Richard Morgan, Bryndewi d. 27 Apr 1831 32
Mary Morgan daughter of Richard Morgan d. 1 May 1824 37th year
Jane Morgan daughter of the above named Richard Morgan d. 2 Oct.1796 3
Magdalen Morgan wife of the above Rd Morgan d. 20 Aug 1833 74
Row 32
Morgan Morgan Bryndewi this parish d. 28 Sep 1839 49
alism
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I visited Aberystwyth archives and found a marriage for Richard Morgan and Magdalen Morgan on 8th may 1783 in Llanddewi Aberarth.Richard was down as a yeoman.I also found a birth in nov/dec 1758 for Magdalen daughter of Morgan Evan and Gwenn.I also found that Timothy Morgan(b.1805),one of the sons of Richard and Magdalen married Margaret Herbert in 1841.Margaret was born in sept 1804 at Rhiwbren in Llanarth and her parents were probably William Herbert(1764-1815) and Margaret Jones(1770-1815).The parents of William Herbert b.1764 were William Herbert(b.1711-1713 at Rhiwbren) and Judith Price(1724-1795). On the family search site the family of Margaret Herbert can be traced back to William Herbert(b.1645) and his wife Jane Evan..they married in 1670 in Lledrod.
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the NLW has a will from 1832 for Richard of Bryndewi that mentions his wife Magdalen, daughter Margaret, daughter Elizabeth married to John Jones of Wern y Meirch, son John Morgan of Frongay, son David Morgan of Lloegrfach, grandson David, son of David, son Evan Morgan of Talsarn, sons Morgan & Timothy.
Also a will from 1770 for Morgan Evans that mentions son John, daughters Elizabeth Anne (no comma between the 2 names so 1 person), Magdalen, Mary, son-in-law Thomas John who married his now deceased daughter Catherine, and Gwenn, widow of his deceased son Morgan.
I would suspect that there wiil be wills for other members of the family that would back up baptisms found.
What are you looking at on Familysearch that traces back the Herberts? If it's a pedigree file or community contributed, I would take it with a pinch of salt. Extracted records that have been transcribed are indexed as community indexed.
NLW has the will from 1795 of William Herbert, father of William, father of Margaret. And there are 2 earlier wills of Herberts from Rhiwbren, William in 1707( inventory only) , Morgan in 1679.
;)
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Thankyou Oriel.The will from 1770 seems very promising!I was wondering if Richard Morgan b.~1758 could be traced from Yeoman records(if there are any).When I visited Aberystwyth Archives we couldn't find any birth/baptism in Llanddewi Aberarth.The reason for the Herbert family interest is that there was a long line of ancestors who were religious ministers and there were many who went to either Oxford or Cambridge.As for the Morgan family it is supposed lthat they date back to the family of the privateer Henry Morgan(or a close relative).I'll have another look at the wills on NLW.Once again thankyou..Ivor
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there won't be records of yeomen just for that reason, but there may well be records of one sort or another, like leases from the landed gentry and wills. I've got yeoman farmers in my family from Cornwall and one of the families was called Yeoman. Not easy to search the CRO catalogue for them!
If you went to Aberystwyth, did you visit the NLW for their parish records? The Genuki entry for Llanddewi Aberarth suggests that the record office doesn't have all of them, but NLW does. I was going to suggest checking Henfynyw as well, but some of the earlier records appear to have been lost.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Henfynyw/
The Herbert will I saw mentioned that the executor was a clerk, David Herbert, second son of William and brother to William, father of Margaret. The wife of William senior mentioned in the will was Judith.
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Dear Oriel,On the family tree section of Family Search William Herbert's wife is down as Judith Price(1724-1795) regards Ivor
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Oriel? ???
You should check original records wherever possible rather than accept another person's family tree. Just because it's on FamilySearch doesn't mean it's correct. What sources and references are given?
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Dear Oriel et al,There is an entry on the public member trees in Ancestry for Richard(Brynd(d)ewi) Morgan (1758-1831)and Magdalen(1759-1833)They married in 1783 in Llanddewi-Aberarth.John Morgan (son) is down as born 1785 and married Catherine Jones Lewis(1798-) in 1813.There was a son of John Morgan named David J Morgan (1820-1904) who married Mary Meladria Davies Phillips(29 jan 1853 in Gallia,Ohio,USA) and they had 13 children!!Their first child was Magdalene(1853-1932).All 13 children(+spouses and their children) are down on this tree.There is also a David Richard 'Lloriger'Morgan(1778-1856) down as a son of Richard'Bryndewi'Morgan.The problem here is that Richard and Magdalen didn't marry until 1783.David Richard Morgan is down as marrying Mary R and they had a child Elizabeth A Morgan(1793-1864) who married John'Bach'Thomas(1822-1886).Another record I found on freereg was for a marriage in Hefnfynw on 8/aug/1821 between David Morgan(parish Llanddewi-Aberarth) and Mary Daniel.As for the other children of Richard Morgan and Magdalen Morgan:Mary (1787-1824) didn't marry,Elizabeth Morgan married John Jones(around 1831 they lived at Wern Y Meirch),Morgan(1790-1839) didn't marry,Margaret m Thomas Pugh(10 aug1832),Jane 1793-1796),John lived at Frongey ~1831 and then emigrated to Gallia in Ohio,USA),Daniel (1799-1831) and didn't marry,Evan (my gggrandfather b.~1801 and became a master saddler).Evan married Deborah Davies ~1820 in Talsarn,Cardiganshire,Timothy(1805-) married Margaret Herbert(around 1840) and they had 3 children.One was Richard Herbert Morgan who became a minister...I have been looking for a Richard Morgan born between 1757 and 1759 in Wales and there are 9 possibilities:1)b.1857 Nantmel,Radnor father Richard..2)b.1757 Cadoxton juxta Neath father Richard..3)b.1757 Trevethin(father William)..4)b.1758 Llansadwrnen,Carmarthenshire parents John/Anne..5)b.1758 Llanbryn-mair parents Edward and Hannah..6)b.1758 Tywyn parents Rice and Elizabeth..7)b.1758 Beaumaris,Anglesey parents Thos/Cathrine..8)b.1759 Llanwnnog,Montgomeryshire parents Mary and Richard..9)b.1759 Penegoes,Montgomeryshire parents Jane and Richard..I closely examined these and the most likely are number 2,number 4,number 5,and number 6.There were 4 children down for John/Anne Llansadwrnen..Hannah b.1865,James b.1751,John b.1760,and Richard b.1758..That's as far as I have got...any help would be much appreciated ..Ivorglyn
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Dear Oriel et Al I made one error..Evan Morgan my gggrandfather was born ~1801 not !821!
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what sources does the ancestry tree quote? Just because it's online, it doesn't mean that it's correct. It's much more reliable to do your own research rather than use someone else's tree which may not be based on facts.
Not all records are online so you need access to registers to check for a baptism for Richard. Also, bear in mind that it may be recorded in patronymic style. Look first in Llanddewi Aberarth, the move around it & outwards.
Who were the witnesses to the 1783 marriage? Were they related to Richard or Magdalen?
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Dear Osprey,Sorry I called you Oriel!!Thankyou so much for your continued help.My one obstacle is trying to find out where Richard Morgan b.1758 came from and who his parents were..kind regards Ivorglyn(Richard died in september 1831)
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given the difficulty of researching common names, you need to gather all the info you can. Hence, you need to find the witnesses on the marriage to see if they are relations or can help you trace the family.
There's a will on the NLW site which might be worth looking at. It's from 1788 for Morgan Thomas of Penrhiw in Llanddewi Aberarth, who leaves all his goods to his son Richard Morgan & asks for provision to be made for his wife Margaret. The will was written 5 Jun 1787.
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Dear Osprey,I've looked at the will and it is very difficult to read online.I sent an email to Roy Carpenter of the Llanddewi-Aberarth History Society to see if he had any info on Morgan Thomas but alas no luck except that Penrhiw Farm was supposedly the biggest farm in Cardiganshire (in the 1900s?).I wonder if searching land/property records for PENRHIW might turn something up?Again the records are probably at NLW..kind regards Ivorglyn
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the value of the estate was £24 so looks like Penrhiw was leased.
The will says
In the Name of God Amen, I Morgan Thomas, of Penrhiw in the Parish of Llandewy Aberarth in the County of Cardigan Farmer being Sick and Weak in Body but of Sound Mind & Memory and Understanding Praised be God for the Same, Do Make and Ordain this my last Will and Testament in Manner following. That is to say First and Principally I recommend my Soul into the Hands of Almighty God who gave it and my Body to the Earth to be buried ?(smudge) Decent and Christian like Manner. And as for what Worldly Estate which God of his Mercy hath bestowed on me I give and Dispose of the Same in the following Manner and Form. I give and bequeath all my Goods Wares Effects Chattels and personal Estate whatsoever and wheresoever they are unto my son Richard Morgan to be forthwith Delivered him after my Decease Subject to the Payment of all my Just Debts and Funeral Expences and to the keeping and entertaining Margaret Morgan my beloved Wife and his Mother in a Christian like Manner During her Natural Life. And I do Nominate and appoint the said Richard Morgan to be Sole Executor of this my last Will and Testament. In Witness whereof I have hereunto set my Hand and Seal the fifth day of June in the year of Our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Eighty Seven.
Any surviving leases could be at the archives in Aberystwyth
http://archifdy-ceredigion.org.uk/
but it depends if the records have been deposited.
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Dear Osprey,Thankyou for that Ivorglyn