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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Huntingdonshire => Topic started by: JenClark on Sunday 15 September 13 12:52 BST (UK)
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Hello Rootschatters,
Trying at present to sort out one of my Huntingdonshire/Cambridgeshire families.....but have been finding it hard to locate parish registers for baptisms in Ramsey, Huntingdonshire to answer some queries....any help would be great ;)
I descend from the family of Mary Ibberson and Joseph Tubbs who married in 1803 in nearby Doddington, Cambridgeshire
6 Oct 1803 - Joseph TUBBS bachelor of Chatteris & Mary IBBERSON spinster OTP by licence
Witnesses: Isaac Ibberson, J Heaps
I have loads of information on the Tubbs family, and on the many children of Joseph and Mary, but I would like to confirm a few links back a generation or so for Mary Ibberson's family.
Mary Ibberson is the daughter of Francis Ibberson and Margaret Hanchor. Her parents were married on 23 Dec 1773 at Ramsey, Huntingdonshire. Francis is described as 'of Doddington' at the time of the marriage.
They had at least 8 children of which I am aware, and Francis Ibberson's will in 1821 describes him at the time as Francis Ibberson, the elder, of Benwick in the Isle of Ely, Cambridgeshire
The children are listed in the will as:
Sons: Isaac, Henry, John & Francis
Daughters: Margaret (wife of Charles Leeds), Ann, deceased daughter Mary (wife of Joseph Tubbs of Suffolk), deceased daughter Carrina (wife of James Jones of Isle of Ely Farmer)
But I have not been able to find baptisms for any of the children to date :-\
I think I have located Margaret Ibberson (nee Hanchor)'s burial in Ramsey on 22 May 1815, aged 60yrs.
I suspect the children were born in either Ramsey or Doddington or Benwick.....
Francis Ibberson is described in vaious documents as living in all of the above towns at various times:
1774 - Francis Ibberson of Doddington (married in Ramsey)
1786 - Frans Ibberson of Ramsey buries son Frans?
1786 - Francis Ibberson of Benwick, yeoman
1815 - Ibberson, Francis Sen., late of Ramsey, but now of Benwick in the Isle of Ely
1820 - Francis Ibberson of Benwick in the parish of Doddington, gent
If Margaret Ibberson (nee Hanchor)'s burial is right...she married aged 18yrs. So the children are likely to have been born between 1774 and possibly the late 1790's
I am also interested in any references to the name Hanchor/Anchor/Anker or other derivatives.
Francis Ibberson's brother John Ibberson of Ramsey, Huntingdonshire also married a Hanchor.
John Ibberson married Mary Hanchor on 14 Nov 1768 at Ramsey.
Mary Hanchor is listed in some records as being the daughter of Isaac Hanchor of Ramsey. I suspect that Mary and Margaret Hanchor may have been sisters, but I have not found either of their baptisms as yet...or any real reference to Isaac Hanchor/Anker/Anchor.
John Ibberson and Mary Hanchor had 5 children (Mary, Carrina, Sarah, Isaac & Elizabeth) between 1772 and 1781 while living in Ramsey, but they were all baptised at the Baptist Meeting House in Bluntisham, Huntingdonshire. I cannot find any of Francis and Margaret's children at this church though :-\
Mary Hanchor (nee Ibberson) was buried in Ramsey in 1782, but no age was given.
I suspect the Hanchor girls were born in the 1750's
I would also be interested in whether Francis Ibberson's baptism could be found. His parents were Francis Ibberson and Carrina Overall who married on 24 March 1743/44 at Ramsey. They both died in Ramsey, Francis in 1780 and Carrina in 1791, so I suspect all their children would have been born there.
Francis Ibberson's will in 1780 describes him as Francis Ibberson of Forty Foot Bridge, Ramsey, Huntingdonshire, gent. And gives his family as below:
Sons: Francis, Henry and John (eldest)
Daughter: Carrina (wife of John Bowker of Cannon Street, London)
Wife: Carrina
Grandson: Francis Hemmington, son of John Hemmington and deceased daughter Margaret
It would be great if some of these names show up in the Ramsey parish registers!!! I have found marriages, burials and wills but no baptisms to date :-\
Thanks so much
Jenny
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Ramsey baptisms aren't available online, but a transcript is available from Hunts FHS. At least one person on this board has this transcript so perhaps she'll see your post
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Thanks, fingers crossed ;)
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Hello this is all I could find at Ramsey bapt
10.6.1849 george son abraham and mary ann.ibberson, farmer at pondersbridge ramsey.Margaret.
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Thanks for checking Margaret....I wonder where they are baptised then??
Are there any Baptist or Dissenting Churches that I should check other than Bluntisham?
Francis Ibberson's daughter Ann Ibberson married John Allen Jarvis, dissenting minister, late of Ramsey, then Bretby, Derbyshire, in December 1821.
Perhaps they were all Baptist??
I am guessing that there was no mention of the Hanchor's either?
Jenny
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There is a comment with the burial of Margaret Ibberson at Ramsey in 1815 "no ceremony performed she being a dissenter".
In case it is of interest Isaac Ibberson bac of Benwicke married Elizabeth Ulyat sp otp by licence at Parsons Drove on 25 November 1806. Wits: Alice Sargant and Wm Marshall.
Selina
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How interesting Selina, thanks for the burial comment :)
I had wondered if they were dissenters why they married and were buried at the Parish Church, but I suspose maybe it wasn't legal if they didn't...is this right?
I have quite a few marriages at Ramsey and Doddington Parish Churches, and some surrounding parished for the families I am researching (Isaac Ibberson and Elizabeth Ulyat being one of them), but no baptisms.....
Curious ::)
Jenny
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The 1753 Hardwicke Marriage Act stipulated that marriages had to take place in a licenced Anglican parish church, the only exemptions from this law being Jews and Quakers.
So from 1754 to 1837 marriages had to take place in the Church of England. There was no similar law regarding burials. If the dissenting church had its own burial ground the deceased could be buried there, or in the Church of England, who couldn't refuse to bury anyone.
Often the only hope of tracing non-conformists, especially baptists who don't do infant baptisms, is through marriage and burial records in the established church
David
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Thanks David, that makes sense.
So they couldn't refuse to bury anyone, just refuse to hold a ceremony!! ;)
I am lucky I guess that some of the families feature in the Bluntisham Baptism records in group baptisms when they were older, and give birth dates! Francis Ibberson's brother John Ibberson's children feature as do his daughter Margaret Leeds (nee Ibberson's)...better some than none I guess...
Jenny
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Hi again Jenny,
There are mentions of Hanchor and variants in the Ramsey records. I will send you a p.m.
Selina
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Thanks Selina ;D
I'll check them out and see if I can link them to my family ;)
Jenny
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Hello Jenny, came across this post when searching Overall and Ibberson. John Allen Jarvis and Anne Ibberson are my paternal 2x Great Grandparents. I'm afraid I've not had much luck either with parish records although I have obtained several records via Huntingdon's family history service, including a copy of the will of Francis Ibberson. It's a long time since I last looked into our family history but intend revisiting the family tree in the coming year. It would be good to be in touch with another researcher into that side of the family.
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Hi KimBrack,
Thanks for your message and welcome to Rootschat! Always lovely to touch base with a relllie and fellow researcher ;)
Which of John Allen Jervis & Ann Ibberson's children do you descend from? I believe that they had 7 but only two survived childhood. Is it William Henry Overall Jervis, b abt 1833? Also, do you have the last name as Jervis or Jarvis? I have seen both recorded but Jervis seems to be the most commonly used.
I would love to exchange info. I have done some more research on this family since 2013, but alas baptisms still elude me for most of the family....luckily they left other records!!
I will send you a PM with my e-mail address, I look forward to hearing from you :)
Jenny
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Hello Jen, phew this imfo is a lot to get my teeth into, many many names, but I do not want to repeat myself, only option is is to contact me on margaret_long@ntlworld.com and give me one NAME at a time, thanks.Margaret.
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Hi Margaret,
I will send you an e-mail now, are you able to look up the Ramsey parish registers for me? Thanks so much for the offer ;)
Jenny
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Your Ibbersons etc were likely NOT baptised at all as babies, more likely much later as Baptist Church doctrine demands. Furthermore, due in part to fear of persecution, many baptist chapels failed to register folk, and even if they did, such registers were not always kept safely. Such is true of the baptist church at Great Whyte in Ramsey, which was certainly opertional in the later part of the 18thC, my ancestor, Samuel Fullilove, ran it from c1765 until his death in 1798. Other Ibbersons also seen here. No registers survive from that period for Great Whyte. Researchers looking in Bluntisham are luckier, but note the usual delay between given birth dates and registrations. Also note that many recorded therein were from Ramsey, a goodly walk! Marriages are different, it was the law that you could only be married in a CofE church and most, but not all dissenters obeyed. Burials not so, but few chapels had their own burial grounds, so the parish church was the default. Other history pertains as does the lack of clarity in the specific doctrine followed by each baptist chapel, Strict, Particular, General, etc. Minister-led choices I feel. No doubt this is why not all baptists in Ramsey attended the chapel at Great Whyte. Likewise it maybe explains why there are two baptist chapels in Ramsey, a relativle small town, Great Whyte and Salem, Roderick Fullilove
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Hi Roderick,
So sorry I didn't see your message back in 2021, thanks for the extra information.
I have since discovered that my Ibberson's married into the Fullilove family....so we are in a way connected. Samuel Fullilove & Elizabeth Waters' daughter Sarah (b 1765) married Henry Ibberson in Ramsey on 5 Sep 1782. Henry was the son of Francis Ibberson & Carina Overall. I descend from Henry's younger brother Francis Ibberson (as per this thread).
While there may be no baptism records for my Ibberson/Hanchor/Overall family, the birth dates of the Fullilove family are featured in a family bible (which I am sure you aware of - see extract below). Lucky you! Which child do you descend from?
https://archive.org/details/fragmentagenealo12cris/page/90/mode/2up?q=fullilove
Fragmenta genealogica, Vol XII
by Frederick Arthur Crisp
Printed at the Private Press if Frederick Arthur Crisp 1906
Entries in Bibles, &c. Fullilove p91
The Children of Saml & Elizabeth Fullilove.
Sarah Ann Born April 1761.
Elizabeth Was Born Fabruary 23d 1762 at 6 at Night.
Samuel Was Born Sept 30 at one o'th Clock in ye Morning 1763.
Sarah Was Born July 9th 1765 at one oth Clock in ye Day.
Jonathan was Born Decmbr 21, 1766 at Eleven o'th Clock at Night.
Sarah an Died in her Infacy.
Elizabeth Died March 23, 1769.
Elizabeth the Wife of Sam Fullilove Died Octob 14, 1780. Let not your heart be troubled, her funeral text by ye Reverend Mr Thos Ladson of Needingworth.
Sam Fullilove & Elizabeth his Second Wife maried the 30 of Sepr 1782.
Joseph Fullilove their Son was born July 26th 1783 at Fifteen Minutes after Eleven in the Morning.
From a Bible, "Imprinted at London, by the Deputies of Christopher Barker, Printer to the Queenes most excellent Maiestie. 1599. Cum privilegio ;" in my possession. — F. A. C.
I am intrigued...Do any records exist from the Great Whyte Baptist Church? If so, what years are covered? I presume as the Ibberson's married into the Fullilove family, they likely attended Great Whyte.
Jenny
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Hi Jen, yep let's reconnect and see what we can figure.
I have a copy of Fragmenta Genealogica XII - no 100 out of a limited print run of 100. It is facinating. Also, I am in touch with the grandson of Frederick Arthur Crisp at his former home in Norfolk, trying to track down the actual bible.
I think the daughter of Henry Ibberson and Sarah Fullilove, Elizabeth, married a Francis Ibberson. I also suspect Sarah died in childbirth - it certainly appears she and Henry had no further children.
I have often visited the Baptist chapel in Great Whyte and chatted with the pastor. There's an Ibberson plaque on the wall there and a big mermorial stone to Samual Fullilove in the entrance. The deeds to the rebuilt chapel (1805) reveal the Ibbersons (and the Saunders) pratically owned that chapel. I am in the process of witing that chapel's history. There are no registers from 1765-1805.
I'm decsended from Jonathon Fullilove, fishmonger of Croydon, 1788-1841. He was a son (or grandson) of Samuel. Annoying that Fragmenta does now reveal which, only that Samuel and Jonathon both possessed that bible - Sam 1763-98, Jonathan 1815-41
Looking for any info on CofE sponsored draftees into the Cambridgeshire Milita, c1801 thru 1810, and again in c1850. I think it likely that the sons of Samuel were pushed into the army following Samuel's death as soon as they reached 18. First Joseph born 1783, in 1801, then Jonathon born 1788, in 1806. They were poor non-conformist boys without any trade or apprentishship, hence they were ripe for the bigots in the CofE to push them beyond the reach of poor law relief. Their mother, Elizabeth II nee Fox was likely maintained by the chapel.
I think it likely that Samuel was buried in the chapel's yard and the exact site of the grave was lost when the chapel was rebuilt in 1805..... deeds and other documents pertain.
My main interest remains Samual & Jonathon and their doings.
I have nice charts for the Fulliloves 1487-2023, soon to be published as THEN & BACK
Roderick
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Hey Roderick,
How lovely to connect with you.
How wonderful that you have been able to get in touch with Frederick Arthur Crisp's grandson, I certainly do wish you luck with locating the actual bible...that would be gold!
Henry Ibberson & Sarah Fullilove had at least 3 children. Elizabeth Ibberson c1784 (who married her cousin Isaac Ibberson in 1804 at Ramsey), Overall Ibberson c1806 (sometimes recorded as Henry Overall Ibberson who married Caroline Campion in 1832 at Ramsey) & Carrina Ibberson who was buried at Ramsey CoE 11 July 1809 (her parents are given as Henry & Sarah, but no age is given).
I suspect that they may have had more children, but as we are working with no baptisms it is hard to confirm them. I have found burials for 2 other Ibberson's at Ramsey CoE, that I have been unable to link with any other families, and I suspect belong to Henry & Sarah. They are Sarah Ibberson who is buried 9 Sep 1815, aged 13yrs (no parents names are given, but she would have been born abt 1802 so could fit), and Louisa Ibberson who is buried 26 Sep 1815, aged 4yrs (no parents names are given again, but she would have been born abt 1811 so could also feasibly fit).
I have not been able to locate any reference to Sarah Ibberson (nee Fullilove)'s death/burial to date. Do the Great Whyte Baptist registers post 1805 show anything for Sarah? or for Henry's death in 1831 for that matter?
I have his death date as 19 Apr 1831, but this is extrapolated from a newspaper article:
Huntingdon, Bedford & Peterborough Gazette, Saturday 23 Apr 1831: "Died on Tuesday morning last, Henry Ibberson, Esq. of Ramsey, in the 80th year of his age, respected by all who knew him."
I am intruiged by your mention of the 'Ibberson plaque' at Great Whyte baptist church - what does it say? Would it be possible to get a photo or transcription?
I have a copy of Henry Ibberson's will written 9 July 1828, proved 30 May 1831 Archdeaconry of Huntingdon in which he mentions his children Overall & Elizabeth. His wife Sarah is not mentioned, and I presume was already deceased. I also have copies of the Archdeaconry of Huntingdon marriage licences for Henry Ibberson & Sarah Fullilove as well as both their children; Elizabeth Ibberson & Isaac Ibberson and Henry Overall Ibberson & Caroline Campion. Henry Ibberson gives consent for Elizabeth's marriage and is therefore mentioned in the documents. Isaac is the son of John Ibberson & Mary Hanchor. I have a copy of Isaac Ibberson's will written 13 Mar 1837, and proved 11 Oct 1837. It states he died on 16 Mar 1837, and mentions his friend Francis Saunders, as well as Isaac's extensive family. Isaac & Elizabeth Ibberson had 10 children, and Overall & Caroline Ibberson had 7...so there are a few more relatives for you ;)
Elizabeth Ibberson features in the census as below, and is buried at the Ramsey CoE with a headstone:
1841 census - Forty Foot Bridge, Ramsey, Huntingdonshire
Henry Ibberson 25yrs Farmer Y
Mary Ibberson 25yrs Y
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Elizabeth Ibberson 55yrs Ind Y
Carrina Cripps 25yrs Y
Elizabeth Cripps 25yrs Y
Caroline ?? 20yrs Y
1851 census - Ramsey, Huntingdonshire
Elizabeth Ibberson Head W 67yrs Annuitant b. Ramsey, Huntingdonshire
Jane Brighty Dau W 41yrs Widow of a farmer b. Ramsey, Huntingdonshire
Emma Brighty Gdau 12yrs Scholar b. Doddington, Isle of Ely, Cambridgeshire
Ramsey Parish Church MI's
Headstone
In memory of Elizabeth the wife of Isaac IBBERSON who died the 9 February 1858 aged 74 years.
Overall Ibberson features in the census as below, he died in 1869 but I have not ordered a copy of his will to date.
1841 census - Ramsey, Huntingdonshire
Overall Ibberson 35yrs Merchant Y
Caroline Ibberson 30yrs Y
Sarah Ibberson 7yrs Y
John Ibberson 5yrs
Caroline Ibberson 3yrs
William Ibberson 1yr
+ 2 servants
1851 census - Great White, Ramsey, Huntingdonshire
Overall Ibberson Head M 45yrs Timber Merchant b. Ramsey, Hunts
Caroline Ibberson Wife M 40yrs b. Bury, Hunts
Sarah Ibberson Dau 17yrs b. Ramsey, Hunts
Caroline Ibberson Dau 13yrs Scholar b. Ramsey, Hunts
William H Ibberson Son 11yrs Scholar b. Ramsey, Hunts
Susan Ibberson Dau 9yrs Scholar b. Ramsey, Hunts
Elizabeth Ibberson Dau 7yrs Scholar b. Ramsey, Hunts
Roland Ibberson Son 2yrs b. Ramsey, Hunts
Hannah Bridgfort Niece 9yrs b. Ramsey, Hunts
+ 2 servants
1861 census - Great White, Ramsey, Huntingdonshire
Overall Ibberson Head M 55yrs landed proprietor b. Ramsey, Hunts
Caroline Ibberson Wife M 50yrs b. Bury, Hunts
Sarah M Ibberson Dau U 27yrs b. Ramsey, Hunts
Caroline Ibberson Dau U 23yrs b. Ramsey, Hunts
Susan E Ibberson Dau U 19yrs b. Ramsey, Hunts
Elizabeth Ibberson Dau U 17yrs Scholar b. Ramsey, Hunts
Rowland Ibberson Son U 12yrs Scholar b. Ramsey, Hunts
+ 1 servant
Probate: 22 March 1869
The Will of Overall Ibberson, late of Ramsey in the county of Huntingdon, Gentleman, deceased, who died 6th February 1869 at Ramsey aforesaid was proven at Peterborough by the oaths of David Ulyat Ibberson of Benwick in the Isle of Ely and County of Cambridge farmer, and John Overall Ibberson of Ramsey aforesaid Agent, the son, the executors. Effects under 200 pounds.
I do not know of any Militia links amongst my family, but will let you know if I come across anything.
Jenny
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Hi Jenny
Thanks for all that great info.
I have gathered a lot of Ibberson data, but have done that mainly to flesh out my ubderstanding of the doings of the Fulliloves in Ramsey - who need all the help I can muster, since they have kept themselves mostly well hidden.
That said, I have a pile of Ibberson news to share - but getting it into a logical order to present will take some doing.
Am trying to find my photos of the Ibberson plaque - it is somewhere - just need to locate it. Otherwise I am due to go chappel soon - perhaps to do a talk about Samuel - whom they know precious little about - then I'll take new photos.
The chapel deeds are cool - contain 7 ibbersons and 7 saunders all of whom underwrote the 2nd chappel in 1806...... all sign and seal that deed.
I have documents relating to Henry's will that prove his wife in 1827 was Ann, not Sarah.
There is a lot to go through - we should at least do a phone call - where in the world are you?
Roger
PS, I can't seem to get the attachment feature of this site - so we might also need an email link
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By example.....
CalmRefNo KR/R34/4/19
Reference number R34/4/19
Title Letters of Administration. with the will of the late Henry Ibberson annexed.
Description The administration is granted to his widow, Ann Ibberson, of Benwick, because Joseph Jones of the Four Hundred Feet Bank, Hunts, farmer, and Isaac Ibberson of the Meer Side, Isle of Ely, farmer named as trustees and executors of the will, have renounced their executorship. His will is that all his real and personal estates go to the use and benifit of his widow and all his children still living in equal shares.
Date 16th October, 1827.
Roger
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Hey Roger (sorry, I've been calling you Roderick!),
I am happy to connect via e-mail to share information, I'll send you a PM with my e-mail address so that we can share files. Thank you so much for offering to find/take photos of the Ibberson plaque, it is greatly appreciated. I am now intrigued as to which Ibberson's feature in the deeds, and other records you have gathered...it'll be like Christmas!
I live in Brisbane, Australia....so I think telephone calls might be out of the question, with the time difference....besides I work full time too ;)
The document you referenced around the administration of Henry Ibberson's will in 1827 relates to the nephew of Henry Ibberson (who married Sarah Fullilove, and died in 1831). This Henry Ibberson was the son of Francis Ibberson & Margaret Hanchor - who are my direct line. I descend from his sister Mary Ibberson who married Joseph Tubbs in 1803 in Doddington. Henry Ibberson died in Benwick (not Ramsey) in 1827, he had married Ann Simpson in 1810 in Haddenham, and she was still alive at the time of his death. He had 10 children and there are many many many records about their various inheritances after his death. I have a copy of his will:
Henry Ibberson of Benwick, Isle of Ely, Cambridge, Farmer
Written: 31 Jan 1826
Proved: 16 Oct 1827 Consistory Court of Ely
There are many Ibbersons in this area, often with similar names and it has taken me a wee while to sort them all out, especially with so many of them being Baptist!! The wills have been a godsend.
Jenny
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Ah ha, the old two Henrys trick- its been played on me a few times!
Now I'm hoping one or more of these Ibberson wills names, or at leasr points to, Samuel Fullilove, his children or his grandchildren..... Almost certainly the Ibbesson supported Samuel's ministry at that chapel 1765-98, including providing the building/land - Samuel is mentioned in Francis Ibberson's will.
Sarah Ibberson, b 1765, wife of one Henry, was the daughter of Samuel, my g g g g grandfather, and sister to Jonathon Fullilove, 1788-1841, my g g g grandfather.....
Identifying the land/houses rented to Samuel, by the Ibbersons - documented in c1794, could lead to a trail of property, tax, etc records that could really flesh out my Fullilove story in Ramsey.
Ramsey is but one chapter of my family history - I have document 18 generations fro John Fuloflove, 1487-c1556 thru to my own grandson, Jack, born 2001 anf fl 2023 - 536 years!
Roger
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Thanks so much for e-mailing through the 1806 deed Roger...I'll have a good check through the Ibberson names mentioned and link them into my tree....both the Henry's certainly seem to be present ;)
I can see the reference to Samuel Fullilove in my 7th great grandfather Francis Ibberson's will:
Francis Ibberson of the Forty Foot Bridge, Ramsey, Gent
Written: 19 Aug 1780
Proved: 14 Feb 1781
"my messuage or tenement situate standing and being in Ramsey aforesaid in a certain place called the Great White together with the Meeting House and other buildings, yards, gardens, orchards, and appurtenances thereunto belonging now in the tenure or occupation of Samuel Fullilove and purchased by me of John Mitchell to hold to my said son John Ibberson his heirs and assigns for ever"
I also note that Saml Fullilove witnessed the will.
I will check the other Ibberson wills I have and see if there are any other mentions of the Fullilove family, what are some of the families the children/grandchildren married into?
Are there any Fullilove wills?
Jenny
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Right Roger...I've had a look through the wills I have post 1765 that mention land in Ramsey, but have not really come across any other references to the Meeting House, Samuel Fullilove or the Fullilove family :-\
The best I have is for:
Isaac Hanchor of Ramsey 1767 - This is Francis Ibberson 1781's nephew, and also Father in law to both Francis Ibberson 1781's sons John & Francis (they married his daughters Mary & Margaret Hanchor), yes confusing I know! It mentions property in Great White (tenement, orchard, barn, stable & pasture) but there are no occupiers listed, so I presume Isaac was in occupation of it. Samuel Fullilove is a witness to the will, but not mentioned anywhere in it. The will was written 31 August 1767, and proved at the Archdeaconry of Huntingdon 26 October 1767.
I also checked the below:
James Newton of Ramsey 1804 - This Francis Ibberson 1781's son John Ibberson's father in law
Francis Ibberson of Benwick 1821 - This is the son of Francis Ibberson 1781
Henry Ibberson of Ramsey 1831 - This is the son of Francis Ibberson 1781
John Ibberson of Ramsey 1835 - This is the son of Francis Ibberson 1781, he was bequeathed the land where the Meeting house was, his daughter Sarah married John Saunders of Brick Kilns, Ramsey who is an executor of the will (I note he is also a signatory on the 1806 deed)
Isaac Ibberson of Ramsey 1837 - This is the son of John Ibberson, GSon of Francis 1781, Great White property is mentioned but it is occupied by Miss Crafer & ___ Brown
Cyrus Ibberson of Ramsey 1846 - This is the son of Isaac Ibberson, GSon of John, GGson of Francis 1781, Great White property is mentioned but it is occupied by Robert Pepper & Jane Brighty
Isaac Ibberson of Cambridge & Ramsey 1850 - This is the son of Francis Ibberson, GSon of Francis 1781, there is no mention of Great White
I have other Ramsey wills, but they are pre 1765
Not sure that this helps you much...
Jenny
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Thx for all the info so far - yes the Fulliloves are elusive, but that 1767 will at least tells me that Samuel was in Ramsey by then. Important dates in Samuel's life include:
1724 - born Coventry, son of Jonathon III & Sarah
1743 - likely completed apprentiseship as Silk Ribbon Weaver
1744 - married in Coventry to Elizabeth Waters
1751/2 - seen in Bethnal Green London, burial of two infants
1755/8 - seen in Cripplegate - tax payer and star witness at the buggery trial of Charles Bradbury
1761 - seen in Foulshill, Warwickshire - burial of daughter
1763 - likely received family bible from mother who died that year*
1765 - seen in Ramsey/Cambs as Baptist Minister at 5 meeting houses
1767 - your reference viz will
1780 - wife dies in Ramsey
1782 - remarries in Ramsey - Elizabeth Fox
1783 - son Joseph born Ramsey
1796 - seen as tennent in Ramsey St mary - land emclosure papers
1798 - died Ramsey
1806 - memorial stone moved to entrance hall of new chapel
Samual recorded 5 children in the bible - 1761-1766 - including Sarah nee Ibberson (m1782)
Is your Ibberson tree online? Good to sort them out in my head
I'll send the other document by email after this
Roger
sites
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PS, No Fullilove wills found in Ramsey
1780 - Samuel cited as Coventry voter - he being a freeman of the city after apprenticeship ending c1743
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That's a shame that there aren't any Fullilove wills in Ramsey, don't know how I would have sorted out the Ibbersons without them!
Do you know where Sarah Fullilove was born? Or it is still guesswork at this stage?
Yes I have a tree on Ancestry, which I am presently tidying up and adding sources to. Happy to give you the link, will e-mail it now ;)
Jenny
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Yes, Fullilove wills (on my line) are elusive...... I've mapped c16 generations since c1487 - two admins; no wills!!!
Sarah's birth is cited in the family bible, but only the date, not the where.....
Samuel appears to have been in Coventry until c1750, in London c1751-56, in Foulshill in 1761 and in Ramsey from c1765..... it is unlikely he arrived in the latter until after his mother died in 1763.
He was the minister in charge of two local baptist meeting houses registered in April 1765. Those where just across the county border in Cambs in the towns of March & Benwick. There were 3 more suvh meeting houses registered in Samuel's name, two in 1770 and the last in 1790 at Samuel's own house in Ramsey. It would be wonderful to find the supporting petitions etc for all five.
So Ramsey looks like the best option for Sarah's birth place since I have no news of Samuel ever living in Cambs.
Roger
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Fair enough, that makes sense....
I will keep an eye out for any other references to the Fullilove's in my travels ;)
I might try looking to see if any of the Saunders family left wills....it can't hurt :-\
Jenny
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I think the Saunders would be a rich vein
Likewise Riddlington, he seems like an important man in Ramsey - he is on that deed too
Coxe Feary - also on the deed - has a story to tell - he ran that other baptist meeting when some Ibberson's went..... I remain confused as to wht they went there when that owned one in Ramsey - baptist factions maybe - Strict vs Particular - historic stuff online, but it confused the hell out of me..... religion is so fractured (and devisive)
Stay in touch with news - I'll look to see what else I have
Roger
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I'll let you know if I dig up anything in the wills for Huntingdon, and I will wait to see if you are able to dig up more information on the Ibberson plaque at Great White Baptist Church ;)
I do have a copy of the below Ramsey wills from my family tree...
This is for Sarah Ibberson's husband John Saunders:
England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858
Name John Saunders, of Ramsey Huntingdon, Farmer
Probate Date 9 Oct 1837
Written 5 Feb 1837
Codicil 8 Feb 1837
It does not mention Great White specifically, but does mention land in Ramsey of course. No mention of the Meeting House or the Fullilove family.
This is for the husband of Elizabeth Overall (a cousin to Francis Ibberson's wife Carrina Overall):
England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858
Name Peter Descow, of Ramsey Huntingdon, Gentleman
Probate Date 14 Nov 1770
Written 1 Jun 1770
A very lengthy will with references to lots of parcels of land in Ramsey, but no mention of Great White, the Meeting House or Fullilove family
This is the son of Elizabeth Overall & Peter Descow:
England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858
Name Peter Descow, of Ramsey Huntingdon, Gentleman
Residence Ramsey, Huntingdonshire, England
Probate Date 14 Apr 1785
Written 18 Mar 1780
No Mention of Great White, the Meeting House or the Fullilove family
I can see that there are some other Ramsey wills on Ancestry:
England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858
Name Henry Hampshire, of Ramsey Huntingdon, Woolcomber
Residence Ramsey, Huntingdonshire, England
Probate Date 7 Aug 1794
Written 15 May 1794
Mentions: Property in Great White to sister Elizabeth Moon (as per the 1806 Deed), no mention of the Meeting House or the Fullilove family though
England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858
Name Joseph Saunders, of Ramsey Huntingdon, Yeoman
Probate Date 30 May 1786
Written 15 Sep 1785
Mentions property in Great White (purchased of John Fitzjohn), and his own dwelling house in Great White, but no mention of the Meeting House or Fullilove family
England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858
Name Thomas Augustus Ridlington, of Ramsey Huntingdon, Gentleman
Residence Ramsey, Huntingdonshire, England
Probate Date 7 Oct 1808
Written 7 Sep 1807
No mention of Great White, the Meeting House or Fullilove family
Jenny
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Well, it's not much help...but this is what I found in the wills for the Archdeaconry of Huntingdon
Joseph Saunders of Ramsey, farmer – will written 17 Aug 1808, proved 6 Dec 1809 – no mention of Great White or the Fullilove family
Thomas Ridlington of Ramsey, surgeon – will written 5 Oct 1813, proved 17 May 1814 - he appoints his friend Isaac Ibberson was an executor & guardian of his grandchildren, witnesses of will are Carrina Bowker, Sarah Ibberson & Henry Ibberson - no mention of Great White or the Fullilove family
Coxe Feary of Bluntisham, dissenting minister - will written 30 Mar 1820, codicil 14 Mar 1821, proved 14 Oct 1822 - it is lengthy, but basically just mentions his wife, and daughter Naomi Feary. He also mentions his nephew William Asplan, and 8 nieces and nephews the children of his sister Ann Butcher including one named Coxe Butcher. He mentions Robert Saunders of Bluntisham, yeoman, briefly - he does not mention Ramsey, Great White or the Fullilove family
I could not find anything for Charles Montague Riddlington of Ramsey....sorry :-\
Jenny
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So there is a pattern - nobody mentions the Meeting house in Great White or the Fulliloves. We do see that Sarah Ibberson nee Fullilove survived to witness that will.
Here are a few random Calm refs I have gathered.....
Reference: R40/9/12
Title: Attested copy of Deed of Covenant to levy a Fine and Declare Uses.
Description: John Ibberson & Mary his wife, to William Shepperson of Ramsey, farmer, in trust.
Messuage at 40ft. Bridge, messuage in Gt. White with the Dissenters' Meeting House adjoining it, the Wind Corn Mill at 40 ft. Bridge, 1 Thistle Green Lot purchased of Mr. Gowler, 2 Skeggins Lots, and several lots called Broadholmes or Broadwells Lots. (214a.2r.), all in Ramsey.
Date: 20 Apr. 1792
Query: did the Ibberson’s sell Samuel’s meeting house? Is there a will for William Shepperson?
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Reference: R16/1/3
Title: Release
Description: Francis Ibberson Jarvis, schoolmaster of Repton, Derbyshire, William Henry Overall Jarvis, gardener of Bretby, Derbyshire and Francis Ibberson, clerk to the Cambridge Gas Co., of his Cambridge (surviving executor of the will of Francis Ibberson, his father) to Edward Fellowes. See also R16/1/1 (not seen).
Ann Ibberson married John Allen Jarvis, dissenting minister, late of Ramsey, then Bretby, Derbyshire, in December 1821, she died on the 22nd January 1854, and was buried at Measham Baptist burial ground Derbyshire, of 7 children, only two survived, the 2 Jarvis's in the release who acknowledge payment of the legacy of £1,500. With supporting documents -declarations, copies of Ann Ibberson's marriage and burial certificates, those of her children, stc (9 items).
Date: 15th May 1855
The Fellows family were big land owners in Ramsey – lords of the manorl. There are Fellows documents on CALM etc.
NB. Measham is a parish where some Fulliloves lived c1750-1805 and then died out.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fellowes Collection: records of the Fellowes family, Lords de Ramsey, and its estates
R34 - Deeds and papers
4 - Deeds relating to a freehold Fen Farm in Benwick, purchased from the Devisees under the Will of Henry Ibberson and his widow Ann.
CalmRefNo: KR/R34/4/37
Title: Mortgage (by Appointment)
Description
Mr & Mrs Beecheno to Rev. William Wright of Huntingdon, Dissenting Minister. £200. Lands as in R34/4/36, a messuage and a shop at the south-west end of the Great Whyte, Ramsey, now in the occupation of Beecheno, and all Beecheno's personal estate.
Date: 12th July 1844
Creator Name: Fellowes family, Lords de Ramsey of Abbots Ripton
Repository: Huntingdonshire Archives
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CalmRefNo: KR/R34/4/36
Title: Mortgage
Description
Henry Southwell Beecheno of Ramsey, chemist and druggist, and Ann his wife, one of the 10 children of the late Henry Ibberson, to William Brown of Broughton, farmer. £300. Mrs Beecheno's eleventh share in land in R34/4/16. Attached: Certificate 3rd February 1844 Mrs Beecheno acknowledges the above as her Act and Deed.
Date: 2nd February 1844
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I will have a little dig into the other doings of Coxe Feary - WTS
Roger
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I agree that it is likely that the witnesses of Thomas Ridlington's will in 1813 are Henry & Sarah Ibberson (nee Fullilove) and Henry's sister Carrina Bowker (nee Ibberson)...I'd love to find Sarah's death/burial at some point...
I did not look for a will for William Shepperson at the Archdeaconry of Huntingdon post 1792, but can do next time I am at my local genealogical society.
I have lots of documents relating to John Allen Jervis/Jarvis & Ann Ibberson, including the 9 items the CALM reference relates to. You can see this couple in my tree on Ancestry. I forgot to mention that my tree in Ancestry is just my direct line (including their children), and I have a much larger tree at home ;)
I'll e-mail you a copy of Coxe Feary's will in case it is of use to you
Jenny
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P.S. Remember that the Henry with the 10 children (including Ann Beecheno) is not the Henry Ibberson that married Sarah Fullilove ;D
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Actually, it looks like William Shepperson's will is on Ancestry:
England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858
Name William Shepperson of Ramsey, Huntingdon, Gentleman
Probate Date 14 Aug 1816
Written 23 Dec 1815
Mentions:
GSon William the son of Robert Shepperson
Son Robert Shepperson
Son Joseph Shepperson
GDaus Jane Ingle, Hannah Ingle & Ann Ingle daus of Edward Ingle of Doddington
Land in Ramsey & Benwick
No mention of Great White specifically, and no mention of the Meeting House or Fullilove family
Sorry, we strike out again ::)
Jenny
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Other Coxe Feary refs:
From National Archives (Kew)
1. FR1/1/1
Title: Church book - written by Coxe Feary, covering 1787-1883 (dates seem wrong – viz Feary death date of 1821) – this is perhaps the history of the Baptist chapel in Bluntisham.
NB. Coxe Feary’s father seems to have been a quaker, so we perhaps see a transition from Quaker to Baptist here. There was a quaker burial site at Earith (part of Bluntisham) from 16th century. Likely that Baptists from Mr Feary’s church were also buried there after 1788.
Held at Hunts RO
2. AH31/14
1788 – Registration by Coxe Feary and others of a new meeting house at Bluntisham, minister Coxe Feary.
This may contain a list of Feary supporters – including perhaps Ibbersons, Saunders and Fulliloves
It may mark when Baptists moved from Great White to Bluntisham.
It could point to other such records at HRO, notably the Baptist meeting house established 1790 at the home of Samuel Fullilove in Ramsey, plus two others where Samuel preached – 1770 in March and Benwick. Hopefully all three have a list of supporters (petitioners).
Held at Hunts RO
Roger
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When you say PCC wills are on Ancestry - where do you see them? I've been finding them on National Archives - which is a bit more labourious.
Roger
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I also struck out on references to Samuel at Dr Johnson's library in london - the premier archive of baptist ministers. that dispite Samuel living almost next door to that library in 1755
R
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Also, where do you see those Hunts wills. There is other stuff collected by the archdeaconry etc that may pertain. Maybe Poor Law stuff that may contain Samuel's relic, Elizabeth nee Fox anf the couple's children. Also, I am having great fun in c1600-75 Leicesershire searching the Court of Correction books - where non attendees at church get cited - eg disenters. I believe the Leicestershire Fulliloves became baptists prior to 1634.
Still looking for an expert to advise me on Cambs Militia c1801-20. Such may not exist of course. It is also possible there is mention of those boys volunteered by Ramsey parish in vestry minute books or the likes - again I am looking for an expert.
Some random notes on Samuel & Ibbersons - NB ref to parish paramulation -
1781. Samuel noted in Francis Ibberson’ will as living in an Ibberson property in great whyte
1782. Henry Ibberson marries Sarah Fullilove by license, implying non-conformist views
1794. Thomas Riddlington (who countersigned 2x Fullilove marriage bonds), Henry Ibberson and Joseph Fullilove, son of Samuel. cited on ‘paramulation of ramsey in ramsey pr
1804. New meeting house approved
1806. New meeting house and land sold
Roger
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The Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858 should show up when you search in the 'Convict, Criminal, Land & Wills' section of Ancestry...but just in case the link to the record set is below:
https://www.ancestry.com.au/search/collections/5111/
You can get them free on The National Archives as well (since COVID), but like you say it is a bit more painful as you have to pop each one in your cart, then download them. The quality is a bit better on Ancestry too I find. If you have a subscription there, that would be where I would start.
The Huntingdon wills are available on Familysearch, you can't see the films from home though - you need to be at an LDS Family History Centre or Affiliate Library. My local Genealogical Society is an Affiliate Library, so I pop down there fairly frequently to access Familysearch films. I presume you have a Familysearch log in, if you don't you will need one. The Familysearch site has a weath of information...and you may find other Archdeaconry of Huntingdon records as well as the wills. Just go to the 'search catalog' section and start putting in place names, or keywords....it is a goldmine!
You can use the CALM database to look up whether a will exists or not, and if it does then look up the appropriate film on Familysearch, or.....as I have been having difficulty using the CALM site at present I have just been using the 'index to wills' film on Familysearch to check first. The index tells you which year the will was proved in, then when you look at the film for that year there is another index at the start that gives you the page number for the film. It is fairly straight forward to figure out ;)
The Film I have been using is: "Probate records for the Commissary Court of Lincoln for the Archdeaconry of Huntingdon, 1559-1857, 1559-1857"
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/374857?availability=Family%20History%20Library
Film 187854 (the first one) is the index - named "Caldr. of wills vols. 1-3, 1615-1858"
The Archdeaconry of Huntingdon 'Marriage bonds & allegations 1662-1883' are available below:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/1127353?availability=Family%20History%20Library
I am sure there are a milliion other records on Familysearch that I haven't found yet....I do love digging about to see what I can find though!
What is the ‘paramulation of ramsey in ramsey pr' you refer to? What does it say about Henry Ibberson?
What is Dr Johnson's library in London? I am familiar with Dr Williams's Library in London and the Surman Index for Congregational Ministers, but not the one you are referring to...
https://dwl.ac.uk/view.php?page=208
Jenny