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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: Cheskauk2013 on Sunday 15 September 13 18:36 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Bridget Kilday, b 1864 Dunbeth,Kirkintilloch,married Samuel Alexander (I do not know his date of birth) and had a son named Samuel Alexander b 1890 in Dunbeth,Kirkintilloch. Found them on the 1911 census in Govan with Father Samuel deceased and the birthplace of Bridget and son listed. Bridget is deceased before 1916. I am looking for the family in Dunbeth, Kirkintilloch.
Any help much appreciated,
Francesca
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When and where did Samuel & Bridget marry as I can't see anything on Scotlands People between 1871-1891
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Hiya Francesca,
Family search has an entry for a Saml Kilday Alexander aged 1 at Kirkintilloch, Dunbartonshire on the 1891 Census - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KSF5-4K3
I can't find this child on Scotland's People 1891 Census ???
Also on Familysearch - Bridget Kilday aged 27 at Kirkintilloch, Dunbartonshire - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KSF5-4K9
This entry can be found and viewed on Scotland's People.
Looby :)
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Samuel is transcribed as Janet Kilday Alexander in 1891
Janet Alexander 34 but "she" is a pit sinker ??? b Ireland
Bridget Kilday 27 housekeeper b Kirkintilloch
Charles Kilday 5 b Kirkintilloch
Janet Kilday Alexander 1 b Kirkintilloch
Kirkintilloch ED 2 Page 16 Line 11
Doesn't look like she ever married Samuel. Charles was probably her illegitimate son by another man and Samuel born to her relationship with Samuel Alexander
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Hi and thank you,
That is something I am unsure about. Bridget is listed as Widow on the 1911 census (Scotland's people). I have tried to search Govan,Lanark for possible marriage around birth of son as they were living there on the 1911 census but found nothing on Scotland's People. The 1911 census has Dunbeth,Kirkintilloch as mother and sons birthplace so i thought that they may have married around the birth of their son in Dunbeth,Kirkintilloch. On the Census she is 47 and Samuel is 21.
On the marriage cert of his son he is listed as a Iron Foundry Labourer.
Lobby and CaroleW thank you and that is interesting, I was having a difficult time finding Samuel so this would explain alot. I really appreciate the help.
Francesca
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Charles birth is on SP in 1885 under Kilday. Samuel was also registered as Kilday in 1890 - not as Alexander
Might be worthwhile looking at both birth certs
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1901 entry for 25 Shawhill St Renfrew - all surname Kilday and all b Kirkintilloch
Bridget 37 washerwoman
Charles 15
Samuel 11
James A 9
Eastwood ED 2 Page 32 Line 2
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Thanks CaroleW :),
I have the birth certificate for Samuel Kilday. He is listed as illegitimate child of Bridget Kilday Housekeeper. Why would Samuel use the Alexander surname? as he is Illegitimate on the birth certificate?
Also, I am having trouble deciphering where he was born. Blar Place Close?
Charles is illegitimate. Bridget Kilday is listed as his Mother. Again, a little trouble deciphering birthplace and her occupation. I need my glasses! ;D
Francesca
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Hi Francesca
I read the address as BlackBull Close. Hope this helps
Regards
lemur41
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Hi lemur41,
Thank you and i can see that now you mention it.
Francesca
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Bridget's occupation reads to me as Labourer Chemical Works.
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Regarding Samuel using Alexander as his surname. It was not unusual for illegitimate children to be known by their father's surname. Sometimes this was to deflect the stigma at that time that illegitimacy had :( In this case Samuel Kilday's father was probably a man called Mr. ??Alexander.
For a father's name to appear on the birth certificate of a child born outside marriage the father had to accompany the mother to the registrar's and give his name for the certificate. Otherwise the child was just recorded with mother's details.
Looby :)
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Hi Francesca
No problem, I was probably being a bit cheeky chipping in before Carole had time to reply. But I have 2 Alexander ( man & wife) who were witnesses at the marriage of my x 3 Gt. Uncle in Australia 1859.
I think they must have been friends to him, and the name catches my eye.
as it did this morning.
Good hunting
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Francesca, Is this the same name as the Orkney Kelday I wonder, or is Bridget also Irish?
Pit Sinker, opened new pits I would think. Kirkie was famous for its ironworks, (the Lion foundry, Sun foundry etc') manhole covers, railings, telephone boxes, pillar boxes etc'.
Skoosh.
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Bridget's occupation reads to me as Labourer Chemical Works.
:) ,Lobby and I can see that as Bridget occupation now you pointed it out.
Thanks for going into detail about the surname and I will keep Mr. Alexander in mind while I'm searching.
Much appreciated,
Francesca
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Hi Francesca
No problem, I was probably being a bit cheeky chipping in before Carole had time to reply. But I have 2 Alexander ( man & wife) who were witnesses at the marriage of my x 3 Gt. Uncle in Australia 1859.
I think they must have been friends to him, and the name catches my eye.
as it did this morning.
Good hunting
Hello lemur41,
I really appreciate it :).
Bridget's son Samuel married a Mary Cassidy in 1916,Govan. They had 5 daughters and 2 sons (I know names for the children and have a few pictures). My Grandfather was born in 1923,Govan,Lanark and was the second youngest. 4 of the daughters moved to Australia.
Also my Grandfathers brother went missing in 1950 in Auckland,NZ when he left ship. My Grandfather and his brother were both in the Navy.
There could be something with the marriage. I will keep it in mind.
Thanks again,
Francesca
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Francesca, Is this the same name as the Orkney Kelday I wonder, or is Bridget also Irish?
Pit Sinker, opened new pits I would think. Kirkie was famous for its ironworks, (the Lion foundry, Sun foundry etc') manhole covers, railings, telephone boxes, pillar boxes etc'.
Skoosh.
Hi Skoosh,
This sounds interesting :). I will keep this in mind and jot it down on my to do list :).
Thank you,
Francesca
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Hi Francesca,
Pleased to have been able to help.
Why did you think in your original post that Samuel's father was called Samuel Alexander? Does Samuel Kilday Alexander give this name for his father when he marries?
There is a man called Samuel Alexander age 37 in Kirkintilloch at the 1881 Census but I think he could be married with a family.
Looby :)
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Hi Francesca
Andrew & Isabella (Glass) Alexander were the couple. They married Australia 1856. I believe that Andrew was a Doctor & Ship's Surgeon. Both signed the marriage record for my x 3 Gt. Uncle. On my to do list when I can afford it, is to buy their OZ marriage record ,and compare signatures
My relative married a girl whose family emigrated from Stirlingshire. He left England in 1856 for the USA, and 2 years later was in Australia. I believe that Andrew Alexander was also on the same ship, travelling back from the USA to OZ.
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Hi Francesca,
Pleased to have been able to help.
Why did you think in your original post that Samuel's father was called Samuel Alexander? Does Samuel Kilday Alexander give this name for his father when he marries?
There is a man called Samuel Alexander age 37 in Kirkintilloch at the 1881 Census but I think he could be married with a family.
Looby :)
Hi Looby,
:). Samuel Kilday Alexander, on his marriage cert has Samuel Alexander Iron Foundry Labourer (deceased) as Father and Bridget Alexander,M.S Kilday (deceased) as his Mother.
I wonder if there may be some connection?
Francesca
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Hi Francesca
Andrew & Isabella (Glass) Alexander were the couple. They married Australia 1856. I believe that Andrew was a Doctor & Ship's Surgeon. Both signed the marriage record for my x 3 Gt. Uncle. On my to do list when I can afford it, is to buy their OZ marriage record ,and compare signatures
My relative married a girl whose family emigrated from Stirlingshire. He left England in 1856 for the USA, and 2 years later was in Australia. I believe that Andrew Alexander was also on the same ship, travelling back from the USA to OZ.
Hi lemur41,
I believe that my Grandfathers siblings didn't emigrate until the 1950's or 1960's however I will keep this in mind as you never know :).
Thanks again,
Francesca
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Hi Francesca,
Pleased to have been able to help.
Why did you think in your original post that Samuel's father was called Samuel Alexander? Does Samuel Kilday Alexander give this name for his father when he marries?
There is a man called Samuel Alexander age 37 in Kirkintilloch at the 1881 Census but I think he could be married with a family.
Looby :)
Hi Looby,
:). Samuel Kilday Alexander, on his marriage cert has Samuel Alexander Iron Foundry Labourer (deceased) as Father and Bridget Alexander,M.S Kilday (deceased) as his Mother.
I wonder if there may be some connection?
Francesca
Hi again Francesca,
Could be that Samuel Kilday Alexander made up his father's name and occupation for the Marriage Certificate ;). It happened ... my own family tree has a couple of probable "fictitious" fathers back in the early 1900's.
Then again maybe he believed a Samuel Alexander was his father. He may have had some acquaintance with his father for all we know!
It would be interesting to know the occupation of the Samuel Alexander age 37 on the 1881 at Kirkintilloch. The fact that Samuel has his "father" as deceased when he marries may not be true. It could be a convenient fib to explain his father's absence.
I also noted that Bridget has a 3rd son listed by CaroleW as James A Kilday on the 1901 Census. I wonder if the A stood for Alexander??
Good hunting,
Looby :)
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I have a lot to do ;D. I think something like this is the most likely but who knows? Thanks for pointing this out, I am going to take a look at Samuel on the 1881 census and the 1901 census for James and see what they say.
Much appreciated,
Francesca
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Sorry Francesca :-[
Samuel Alexander age 37 is on the 1891 Census not the 81.
I got a bit muddled with my dates :-[
Looby :)
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Hello Looby,
Here is the 1891 census for Samuel occupation.
Francesca
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This is for James A.
Francesca :)
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??? Could this be Bridget? in 1863?
Biddy KILDAY (F)...................... B: 7 Jul 1863
Father: Cornelius KILDAY Kirkintilloch, Dunbarton, Scotland
Mother: Mary MC AULAY
Bridget KILDAY (F).................... B: 10 Aug 1857
Father: Anthony KILDAY Calton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Mother: Margaret HOROTHA
Bridget KILDAY (F).................... B: 26 Jan 1859
Father: Patrick KILDAY Uphall, West Lothian, Scotland
Mother: Bridget BYRNE
Francesca
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So the Samuel Alexander married with children on 1891 Census is an Ironmonger.
Samuel Kilday Alexander gives his father's occupation as Iron Foundry worker.
Rereading the posts I notice that CaroleW mentions a JANET Alexander age 34 born Ireland on the 1891 Census Have you viewed the original of this on Scotlands People? Carole says Samuel has been mistranscribed as Janet (and young Samuel has - Janet Kilday Alexander) but is the older Janet in fact father Samuel??
And yes I think Biddy Kilday could be Bridget. Bridget consistently gives Kirkintilloch as her birthplace on Censuses and Biddy is a variation/shortened form of Bridget.
Looby :)
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Biddy Kilday, deffo Irish ;D
Skoosh.
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Biddy Kilday, deffo Irish ;D
Skoosh.
I would agree Skoosh :D
Cornelius Kilday and Mary McAuley have at least one more child Mary on 25th December 1866 . https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY5R-G73 Ahh a Christmas Baby! Sadly though perhaps Cornelius wasn't around to see the birth as Scotlands People has a death in 1866 for a Cornelius Kilday at Kirkintilloch :(
Looby :)
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Good morning,
Thank you Looby and Skoosh :). Biddy Kilday and Mary a christmas baby ;D.
I have a copy of the census for JANET Alexander age 34 born Ireland on the 1891 Census and it looks like Samuel as CaroleW mentions.
Much appreciated,
Francesca
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Hi Francesca,
You can understand why the name was mistaken for Janet. The writing is a bit of a scrawl.You should perhaps email Scotlands People and alert them to both mistranscriptions. If you've wasted credits looking for both Samuels they might refund some credits!
Samuel snr. either died or left the family before 1901, poor Bridget on her own with 3 boys.
Looby :)
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Hi Francesca,
You can understand why the name was mistaken for Janet. The writing is a bit of a scrawl.You should perhaps email Scotlands People and alert them to both mistranscriptions. If you've wasted credits looking for both Samuels they might refund some credits!
Samuel snr. either died or left the family before 1901, poor Bridget on her own with 3 boys.
Looby :)
Hi Looby,
Yes, it is a bit of a scrawl. I just sent an email to Scotlands People. Thanks for pointing it out to me.
I know,what a tough life she had :(. Just to add Samuel Kilday Alexander died age 69 in Govan,Lanark. Samuel lists his father as a soldier and deceased.
Francesca
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Hi,
I found this and I am wondering ??? if it could be the father of Samuel Kilday Alexander:
ALEXANDER Sam Adult M 1895 Liverpool USA Boston
ALEXANDER Saml Adult M 1900 Londonderry USA New York
With all the information I have from the 1891 census, this caught my attention especially the spelling of Saml. Am I am going down the wrong path? ???
Francesca :)
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Hi Francesca,
Did you check deaths on Scotlands People for Samuel Snr?
Where did you find the record of Saml Alexander travelling from Londonderry to New York?
Sorry for the questions ;D.
Obviously Samuel could have left the family and emigrated to USA but it's impossible to say with the info so far that the Saml you have found is the right man.
The Samuel Alexander you have found appears to have boarded his ship at Londonderry, Ireland which means "your" Samuel would have to have sailed back to Ireland before leaving for USA. Not impossible but I would have thought it more likely that he'd have sailed from West Coast of Scotland to USA.
Looby :)
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Hi Looby,
Sorry it has taken me a while to reply but I have been going down the wrong path. You have been such a great help 8).
I am still looking into Samuel.
Thanks again,
Francesca :)
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Hello,
I am still investigating all this information but I came across something by accident and wondered if it could be Mary on a website,
Below is the part I believe may be about Mary,
Return to an order of the Honourable The House of Commons, dated 24 May 1870,-for.
Return of all poor persons removed from Scotland to Ireland from the 1st.Jan.1867 to the 31st. Dec. 1869.
CountyParishNameAdult Male Adult FemaleChildren under 16 From what port sent What place sent to
Kirkintilloch Widow Cornelius Kilday, 1 6 Greenock Donegal[/left][/pre][/center]
Also (sorry for the long post) but I have the marriage cert of Cornelius Kilday and Mary Mc Aulay,1859,Campsie,Stirling however their ages,rank or profession,residence are unlisted so I wonder if there may be a reason for this? Cornelius does not list his parents but Mary does.
Any help much appreciated,
Francesca :)
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Hello,
Just a little update, I have found that James A is James Alexander. On the birth certificate of James it mentions Bridget as a Housekeeper and Samuel Alexander as a coal miner.
Out of interest does anyone have any tips on trying to decipher this or find a new avenue of searching when looking at illegitimate children and their family?
Thank you in advance,
;D