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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Treetotal on Tuesday 24 September 13 11:01 BST (UK)

Title: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 24 September 13 11:01 BST (UK)
This photo was with my Uncle's army photos but can anyone say where it might have been taken...I know he was in Rome in 1945....He lived in London.
Thanks for looking.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Tuesday 24 September 13 13:58 BST (UK)
The fact that the Union Jack is flying makes me think it was taken here rather than in Italy. The buildings don't look Italian either. Could it have been VE or VJ celebrations?
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 24 September 13 16:31 BST (UK)
Yes Groom...That's what I thought too...thanks for your response..It's much appreciated.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 12:40 BST (UK)
the red white and blue buntings were also used in the UK.Im sure it was taken in Britain to celebrate VE day,I was 7years old in 1945 and faintly remember that type of bunting,
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 13:00 BST (UK)
Thanks for the feedback BB...much appreciated.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 16:06 BST (UK)
great photo T/T one thing I do notice it the lack of cars?
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 25 September 13 16:15 BST (UK)
Very distinctive building on the left at the intersection. Also church spire in background. Fascinating photograph.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: sami on Wednesday 25 September 13 16:16 BST (UK)
great photo T/T one thing I do notice it the lack of cars?

Is that a parade or some kind of procession starting at the far end of street?

sami
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 16:28 BST (UK)
Thanks for the feedback...some interesting observations...I know in 1945 he was living in Beresford Road Hornsey...but wasn't taken there....but as he was shot in both feet in Dunkirk I wondered if it was taken from a hospital window or barracks.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 16:40 BST (UK)
I had hoped to be able to google "swan neck street lights"and see if I could learn anything from that,but so far no luck.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 16:44 BST (UK)
I do love a mystery ? ;D I wonder if any of great photo restorers would have any thoughts on this photo?
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 16:49 BST (UK)
Thanks for that BB...the guy in the foreground is in Uniform and what Sami thought could be a procession is two Union Flags close together.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Wednesday 25 September 13 16:51 BST (UK)
It was obviously taken from above ground level. From the angle of the photo, it looks as if that bit of road in the front of the photo would have been a dead end.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: seahall on Wednesday 25 September 13 16:55 BST (UK)
Since a close up photo on reply 14 info no longer relevant.  :)

Sandy
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 17:21 BST (UK)
Another shot.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 17:32 BST (UK)
I believe it is a hospital of some kind,at the 2nd intersection both sides of the streets windows look to be identical and the female figures look like they are nurses,one of the two on the right seems to have a cape on and the male figure looks like he has web belt on,and seems to be swinging his arms? and all different sorts of chimney tops,not the sort we would see in a row street,
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 17:44 BST (UK)
Thanks for your observations BB...I can see a lot of what you describe in the photo too.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Wednesday 25 September 13 17:46 BST (UK)
From the second photo the other end of that road looks to be a dead end as well. Is that a sign over the building on the corner of the second road on the left - something DEN? I think there is also writing at the end of the street, but I cant make it out.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 17:49 BST (UK)
I can make out the letters "RDEN" on the left side building at 2nd intersection? maybe Garden?
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 17:51 BST (UK)
From the second photo the other end of that road looks to be a dead end as well. Is that a sign over the building on the corner of the second road on the left - something DEN? I think there is also writing at the end of the street, but I cant make it out.

Well spotted....I never saw it  :D

Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Wednesday 25 September 13 17:52 BST (UK)
Think you are right Bugle Boy.

No sign of bomb damage and the windows don't look as if they'd lost any glass, so possibly not central London. 
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 18:02 BST (UK)
might be the name of that building's Wing name Im sure every wing would have an name.?looks like it is quite a large hospital.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Wednesday 25 September 13 18:11 BST (UK)
I'm not convinced that all those buildings on the left are hospital buildings - there are too many chimneys, suggesting there are fireplaces below them. I think they may be shops with flats above.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 18:32 BST (UK)
You have a point there Groom... They are multiple occupancy so I wonder if it is the nurses' accommodation.
I appreciate your input on this...I would be good to know for his biography.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 18:33 BST (UK)
might be the name of that building's Wing name Im sure every wing would have an name.?looks like it is quite a large hospital.

That's a good suggestion BB....I hadn't thought of that.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 18:35 BST (UK)
Dont think they are shops,dont see any large display windows?It could be that those buildings with lots of chimneys could be rooms that housed 1 or 2 patients and had their own fireplaces?I dont think they were like normal hospital wards that could house30 or 40 beds,back then Im sure all sorts of properties were used to facilitate our wounded.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Wednesday 25 September 13 18:43 BST (UK)
Have you got any idea where in London he lived? I'm wondering whether you might be better asking for this to be moved to another board eg the photo board or the Common room or even the London board as it doesn't seem to be attracting much interest at the moment.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 18:52 BST (UK)
Its sure got my attention. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  It may be no where near London.but I do agree it may just remain an unsolved mystery?Sorry T/T cant think of anything more I can add.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Wednesday 25 September 13 19:28 BST (UK)
My first thoughts on the look of the place, and the lack of damage, with the paving variances is perhaps one of the many 1953 coronation street parties.

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Jool on Wednesday 25 September 13 19:47 BST (UK)
The curved building on the corner of the first junction on the left has a black sign with white writing protruding from the front of the building. Could a clever restorer try to sharpen it please so we can try and read it.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Wednesday 25 September 13 20:02 BST (UK)
My first thoughts on the look of the place, and the lack of damage, with the paving variances is perhaps one of the many 1953 coronation street parties.

Regards

Malky
wouldn't intersecting streets  have names on them? I dont see anywhere the name of a street?
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 20:04 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone for your interest and your feedback...as I mentioned earlier....he lived in Beresford road, Hornsey...but the images don't match. The lack of transport led me to think that it wasn't a through road.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Wednesday 25 September 13 20:16 BST (UK)
Very long shot this, but working on where he lived.

Does the spire on this church (St Ann's Tottenham) look like the one in the photo? If so there is a large hospital nearby - have a look on Google maps
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 25 September 13 21:09 BST (UK)
Wow...I think you could be in the right area....Good bit of detective work there...Thanks so much.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 25 September 13 21:28 BST (UK)
Not sure if it is St, Anns, the steeple angles seem different. Have a look here, pity about all the modern building but such is the price of progress!   http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=st%2C+anns.+tottenham
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 26 September 13 00:40 BST (UK)
I'm glad this mystery hasn't been solved just yet.  ;)

A couple more comments/observations:

I really don't see any signs of a hospital I'm afraid. Hospitals were usually larger more imposing buildings set back from the road, not set on an intersection to a High Street.

Difficult to see but the church spire does look similar in style to St Ann's Tottenham..

For all the celebratory bunting etc there are very few people around - you would expect the streets to be teeming with people. Have the celebrations finished? (streets too clean?) or not started yet?

I think it is difficult/impossible to see the far end of the street in enough detail to presume it is a dead end. It may have been blocked off? This may tie in with Malky's idea that it was a 1953 Coronation street party. Can anyone zoom in close enough to any of the figures to see if the fashions tie in with this theory? Streets closed off for the party would explain lack of cars.

I think there is a black sign on the building on the left with the unusual curved brickwork. Can anyone zoom in to see what it says? It has a light hanging out the front - is it a pub?

Building at front left appears to have a large window facing the road, so possibly a shop? But there is a distinct lack of signage for what appears to be a commerical High Street.

It may be that the photograph was taken from the top of a building - once again I think it is difficult to assume it is a dead end - it may have run along the bottom of the street with the Bunting and obviously due to the photo being taken from above, the street is obviously out of view.

None of this helps in the search, but I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there.  :)

PS. Of course this street may be unrecognizable today which will make identification very difficult.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Thursday 26 September 13 01:12 BST (UK)
Elementary my dear Watson, ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: sami on Thursday 26 September 13 01:52 BST (UK)
None of this helps in the search, but I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there.  :)

With Ruskie's observation in mind, I've been wondering about some of the shapes on the horizon. It's clearer on the second image and located on the right side of the photo. There are a group of structure silhouettes that must be quite large in size if they are all part of the same complex. Could it be something to do with a castle?

sami
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Thursday 26 September 13 03:10 BST (UK)
Colditz? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D or a big one made of sand maybe, :) :) just having a wee laugh sami
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: weste on Thursday 26 September 13 04:14 BST (UK)
The darker building on the left which looks like a pub with the stone figures on, by the bit of unting there is a black sign with some writing on. Wonder what that says? Also the spire in the picture looks pretty distinctive. Looks as if there is some foreign influence in the architecture. Although the picture seems to be in England. The sign with DEN on looks as if there is a gap between the D and the previous letter or was it the way the sign painter did it?
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: barryd on Thursday 26 September 13 04:55 BST (UK)
If we accept that it is a photograph taken during Coronation celebrations then we have three choices.

a. King George V -1911
b. King George V1 - 1937
c. Queen Elizabeth 11 - 1953

I am going for 1937 by the look of the photograph!
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 26 September 13 05:55 BST (UK)
A closeup of the fashions (especially ladies) if anyone is clever enough to be able to do this, might help as well Barryd. The fancy edges of the photo? I know they were around in the 50s/60s ....  :-\
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: majm on Thursday 26 September 13 06:12 BST (UK)
I am wondering if the name of the "prominent' street is on the sign inside "my" circle?   

Cheers, JM
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 26 September 13 06:24 BST (UK)
Yes, it could be JM.  :)
Difficult to see if it is part of the sign ending in the word 'DEN' which may wrap around the corner of the building. What you have circled does look a little smaller though, and appears to be street sign shaped.  :)
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bleckie on Thursday 26 September 13 08:11 BST (UK)
Hi All

In the second photo.

The second building on the left at the road junction in the foreground has figures on the lower roof at the back of the street lamp, to me it looks like 3 swords men, sign on wall just below this could this in fact be a pub.

Yours Aye
BruceL
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 26 September 13 11:16 BST (UK)
Some really good feedback here and thanks so much for your interest...I believe them to be taken around 1945.

Bruce...I think they are statues.

There are two photos from the same batch here although they may not be the same location:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=662688.new#new

Thanks for your detective work...It's been really useful.

Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Thursday 26 September 13 11:31 BST (UK)
Those wont open for me Carol.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 26 September 13 11:39 BST (UK)
Hi Groom...I can see them but they are awaiting approval...don't know why...the photos are mine and they are only buildings ???

Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Thursday 26 September 13 11:43 BST (UK)
I had that happen the other day to one of my posts. A mod said that it sometimes happens when you include a link in the post, which is what you've done.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 26 September 13 11:47 BST (UK)
Oh...Thanks Groom... I wonder if it happens automatically then...very frustrating as I can see them.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 26 September 13 12:31 BST (UK)
Very long shot this, but working on where he lived.

Does the spire on this church (St Ann's Tottenham) look like the one in the photo? If so there is a large hospital nearby - have a look on Google maps

I have found an Address where his wife was living in Tottenham Lane, Hornsea... in army records...so your suggestion is looking good Groom.

Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: mosiefish on Thursday 26 September 13 12:33 BST (UK)
Just a point - all the street signs amongst other signs were removed during WW2.

Mo
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 26 September 13 12:43 BST (UK)
Oh yes...good point...Thanks for that Mo...I had forgotten.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: youngtug on Thursday 26 September 13 13:43 BST (UK)

I have found an Address where his wife was living in Tottenham Lane, Hornsea... in army records...so your suggestion is looking good Groom.

Carol
Hornsey? Hornsea is in Yorkshire
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 26 September 13 14:11 BST (UK)
Ooops! Hornsey....That's  because I live in East Yorkshire  ::) ;D ;D ;D
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Thursday 26 September 13 16:13 BST (UK)
I still think that this figure in the foreground is that of a soldier,and and it was taken during the summer months or close to summer as the soldier seems to be in what is called in the Army, "Shirt Sleeve Order"  And you can he is wearing a web belt,
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 26 September 13 17:39 BST (UK)
Nice one BB...I knew he was there...but didn't know about the uniform so every little helps  ;)
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: weste on Thursday 26 September 13 18:42 BST (UK)
The queen mary ship which is on the thames which they use for dances and all sorts. I have a photo of the back of it and I believe see the more rounded spire there. Tried to post but could  not attatch and have resized a bit and will try again later. I think we stayed in a travel lodge in drury lane and we could see the London etc from it and we walked past a few theatre places. So it's that end of the thames.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Thursday 26 September 13 19:21 BST (UK)
Perhaps, the Queen's tower, or Westminster Cathedral tower.

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: weste on Thursday 26 September 13 19:37 BST (UK)
[img][0249]   Could this show the buildings? The full size photo is too large to post.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Thursday 26 September 13 19:54 BST (UK)
I would say there are far to many  churches in the UK that have spires similar to the one in T/Ts pic and the last one posted to my eyes is completely different ,in T/Ts I only see 2 windows or openings?
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 26 September 13 19:58 BST (UK)
Thanks for those suggestions Malky and Westie....All very welcome but am unsure...as BB says...so many similar spires in the area  ::)

More photos fro the same batch here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=662688.0

Thanks for your interest and your input...It's very much appreciated :-*

Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 27 September 13 00:41 BST (UK)
I still think that this figure in the foreground is that of a soldier,and and it was taken during the summer months or close to summer as the soldier seems to be in what is called in the Army, "Shirt Sleeve Order"  And you can he is wearing a web belt,

I see a man (hatless) wearing baggy trousers, a long sleeved shirt with the sleeves rolled up, and a short vest. (30s or 50s style) I'm probably wrong but I just can't get that out of my head.  :)
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Friday 27 September 13 02:36 BST (UK)
Hello all...I can never resist a find this place photo ;D

I really wanted it to be St Ann's Tottenham as it looked right - but have done a comparison of close ups and now I'm not sure. (the one on the right is St Anne's the other two are from the mystery photos. The markings up the spire are right - but the windows lower down look different. (there seem to be two arched windows in St Ann and only one in the roots photo)

St Ann's Church was designed by celebrated architect Thomas Talbot Bury (1811-1877) who designed quite a few so perhaps it is another of his churches elsewhere?

Also - I think that close up (well done BB on getting it so close!!)   is a young lad - mid/late teens maybe.. and agree with ruskie about baggy trousers, rolled up sleeves and short vest/slipover thing.

Milly

Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 27 September 13 04:39 BST (UK)
You are right Milly - looking at your comparison photos - definitely not St Anns.

I am wondering if that distinctive building with the curved brickwork no longer exists. It is so unusal that if it was still around I would expect someone to recognize it.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: gaffy on Friday 27 September 13 06:05 BST (UK)
Only an observation (sorry if anyone has already mentioned).

If this is inner London, then in contrast to the street scene taking up most of the photo, there seems to be an awful lot of trees beyond the roofline at the back of the photo. 

And unless the ground rises significantly beyond the buildings at the back of the photo (and even allowing for the photo being taken at a height), they must be quite big trees. Possibly a park?

Also, at reply # 63, note the vertical object rising above the tree to the left of the tower / spire.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: gaffy on Friday 27 September 13 06:38 BST (UK)

Another thought (and assuming, despite doubts, that it is St. Ann's Church).

What if the area has since been totally (and I mean totally) re-developed?

For example, go google map/streetview Kerswell Close off St. Ann's Road. Playing around you can actually arrive at a point where St. Ann's spire / tower can be seen in approximately the same position as the WW2 photo. And presumably the big trees are what is now 'Chestnuts Park'.

Also, as you head into Kerswell Close from St. Ann's Road,  note the large white building on the corner, which is reminiscent of the flat roofed buildings in the WW2 photo - is this one that survived the redevelopment?

Only a theory.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: youngtug on Friday 27 September 13 07:42 BST (UK)
Hornsey was badly damaged by bombing during WW11.

  http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22518
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 27 September 13 09:41 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone for your interest and helpful response...here is a higher res scan of the middle distance..
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Friday 27 September 13 09:49 BST (UK)
Well we now have a better time period, ....... Elizabeth II on the lamp post  ;D
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: youngtug on Friday 27 September 13 10:00 BST (UK)
A pity that the pub sign is unreadable.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: weste on Friday 27 September 13 10:14 BST (UK)
Looks much better, an R can seen before DEN and the banner at back is not far off being readable. There's so many clues in the picture. It's really frustrating!
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 27 September 13 10:57 BST (UK)
It looks like the lantern at the first junction says "Police Slow"
I might have to do another portion...the latest was scanned at 1200dpi.

I agree Weste  ::)

Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Friday 27 September 13 12:37 BST (UK)
I think Frank is right - does look like ElizabethII on lampost - so probably Coronation 1953

And the boy looks to me like he is wearing a check shirt and slipover - quite 50s.

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Friday 27 September 13 12:38 BST (UK)
And here are the people by the shops and a close up of the end of the street.  Does it look like a dead end?

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Friday 27 September 13 12:39 BST (UK)
And here is a close up of the odd tower to the right of the steeple. Could it be a smaller tower on the other end of the church maybe? Or is it a different building?

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 27 September 13 12:41 BST (UK)
Aw yes...I never saw that...Nice one Frank  8) Coronation preparations then..June 1953  :D
Thanks so much...I think there is a bunch of flags near the people on the right....It looks like dead end and that could be another tower!

Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 27 September 13 13:16 BST (UK)
Excellent! What an impovement the new scan has made! Is it able to be improved even more?

Still unsure about the end of the street being a dead end - I thought it might be a T junction? So frustrating not quite being able to read those signs.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 27 September 13 13:32 BST (UK)
Thanks Millie for putting them up....I know he lived in Hackney area in 1948....scanned at 1600dpi

Carol

Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: gaffy on Friday 27 September 13 13:41 BST (UK)

And as I said at reply #65, look at those trees, if this is London, then surely it has to be parkland in the background, also what is the curious vertical item rising from the trees to the left of the spire?
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 27 September 13 13:56 BST (UK)
Sorry Gaffy...Yes you did...I do apologise...you make a valid point...thanks for that.
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 27 September 13 14:11 BST (UK)
Even better Carol! Still can't make out what is on the sign at the end of the road.

Could very well be a park Gaffy - lots of them as well as churches in London. ;)

Although this looks like a highly decorated high street, there are not many people about nor much signage (as I mentioned previously) - I see the sign at number 14 *RDEN is facing a different street, so presumably this view is of a side street? It does look like most of the "action" is at the end of the road. Once again no help, but just observations/speculation.

Hackney might be worth investigating then Carol.
... Oh dear. Just discovered how many churches there are in Hackney ....  ::)
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: gaffy on Friday 27 September 13 14:35 BST (UK)
Sorry Gaffy...Yes you did...I do apologise...you make a valid point...thanks for that.
Carol
Sorry Carol, I can't be the only one this photo is driving mad!  ;D
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: gaffy on Friday 27 September 13 15:01 BST (UK)
Could very well be a park Gaffy - lots of them as well as churches in London. ;)

Yes, but in London if you assume a spire top left and park in the background, that narrows the field???
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Jool on Friday 27 September 13 18:48 BST (UK)
Is it possible to get a better scan of the curved building on the left.  Looking at the scan in post #68 the black sign is almost readable.  My first thought (probably wrong  ::)) was that the top line reads public bar, can't read the lower line though.  Also it would be interesting to see what the statues on the roof are.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Friday 27 September 13 19:05 BST (UK)
This is my best effort on the statues - I am thinking either a small child with arm raised - or some kind of tea pot with a spout!

Can't get a close uop of the sign unfortunately

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Jool on Friday 27 September 13 19:20 BST (UK)
Milly, that's exactly what crossed my mind, child or teapot  ;D
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 27 September 13 20:07 BST (UK)
Thanks Mille...they sure do look like teapots don't they...or Daleks  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Friday 27 September 13 20:22 BST (UK)
Hi T/T,Surely there must be Ariel shots shots of London and of Hackney in the 50s,maybe one of the members might have more luck than me,I tried but just not smart enough. :)if you could get some shots it might help solve the mystery ?just a thought.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Friday 27 September 13 20:31 BST (UK)
Hi T/T,Surely there must be Ariel shots shots of London and of Hackney in the 50s,maybe one of the members might have more luck than me,I tried but just not smart enough. :)if you could get some shots it might help solve the mystery ?just a thought.

Hi, I've had my head in this most of the day, still can't find anything  :(
Frank.
http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/node
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Friday 27 September 13 20:39 BST (UK)
What a great web site Frank lots of good stuff.but that pic/pics of T/Ts could have been taken in any large city in the uk,to bad nothing is written on the backs.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Friday 27 September 13 20:42 BST (UK)
Hi, just nearly collapsed  ;D I thought I had it  ::)
http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw036452?search=hackney&ref=47
Don't know if the link will work.
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Friday 27 September 13 20:53 BST (UK)
Hi frank those 3 images on the left in the top one ,slap dad in the middle is a church steeple and close by a tall chimney,could be the right area also st lukes hospital is in that area?
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Friday 27 September 13 20:57 BST (UK)
Hi, Yeah, have you zoomed in on the picture? ...........
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Friday 27 September 13 21:12 BST (UK)
hi frank Im sorry to say im more or less computer illiterate  ;D  and although Ive got all my fingers I can only type out my messages using one finger,When I told another person I only typed with one finger,they answered back that they were sorry I only had one finger, ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Friday 27 September 13 21:18 BST (UK)
hi frank Im sorry to say im more or less computer illiterate  ;D  and although Ive got all my fingers I can only type out my messages using one finger,When I told another person I only typed with one finger,they answered back that they were sorry I only had one finger, ;D ;D ;D ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
No worries.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Michael J on Friday 27 September 13 21:56 BST (UK)
If it's any help, I think the photo was taken around midday looking due east down the street - the shadows of the buildings are on the right hand side of the road at a right angle to the road, so that side is to the south, and very short.

Michael.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Friday 27 September 13 23:54 BST (UK)
Wow- very scientific :o :o

And...the majority of churches are built east/west....(Usually but there are exceptions but let's hope this is not one of them) 

The west usually being the elaborate main door - and the east being where the pulpit and altar is.

There doesn't appear to be a rule as to where the spire goes.


So - if the road is going west to east... then we are looking for a church that sort of runs parallel to it also going west/east... (in theory!)

If that is the case then that other little tower probably isn't at the other end of the church from the steeple.?


Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 28 September 13 00:20 BST (UK)
Could very well be a park Gaffy - lots of them as well as churches in London. ;)

Yes, but in London if you assume a spire top left and park in the background, that narrows the field???

Possibly. Depends if it is a park, an estate of some sort or something else. I think difficult to judge the distances and relationships of the objects on the background, or even identify what many of them are due to not being in focus and maybe due to depth of field and perspective distortion where it is is difficult to determine the relative distances between objects when they are so far away. Bit like viewing a scene through binoculars - it gets distorted.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Saturday 28 September 13 10:11 BST (UK)
Hi, on the link in reply #91 there is a church spire / steeple and also a wooded area, only a possibility tho', and probably not the answer, it could be a park tho'.
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Michael J on Saturday 28 September 13 13:28 BST (UK)
Is this the church? I found this photo of Highgate Hill church on: http://www.churches-uk-ireland.org/london.html

Michael.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Saturday 28 September 13 13:42 BST (UK)
Hi, they are very similar but I think they differ at the base of the spire, That's a good find by the way,
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 28 September 13 14:44 BST (UK)
Hi, they are very similar but I think they differ at the base of the spire, That's a good find by the way,
Frank.
Agreed. It's very close, but the roof just above the single window in the tower, at the bottom of the spire seems to protrude more in the mystery photo than in this one. Shame - it is almost right ..
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Saturday 28 September 13 14:57 BST (UK)
Here's the comparison - Highgate on the right...Agree it doesn't appear to have the protruding bit

Very close though!!

Milly

Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Saturday 28 September 13 15:12 BST (UK)
That church has been converted into flats and no longer has a steeple... but it does have a new protruding roof bit.  I wonder when the postcard photo was taken - and if it is possible that the church did any work on the steeple between then and 1953?

http://hampsteadheath.net/presbyterian.html

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Jool on Saturday 28 September 13 15:35 BST (UK)
I wonder if the shadow cast by the sun on the mystery photo could be exagerating the protruding bit at the spire base  ???
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Michael J on Saturday 28 September 13 16:39 BST (UK)
If you go to the Hampstead Heath link in Milly's post (reply 104) the photo of the church at the bottom of the page shows an overhang & shadow very clearly.

I haven't tried to copy or take a snip of that photo as that site appears to have a very strong copyright message covering their content.

Michael.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Michael J on Saturday 28 September 13 21:14 BST (UK)
After a much closer look comparing the windows in the spires and their vertical distance above & below the overhang, I now feel the Highgate Hill church is not the one in the Coronation celebration photo.

Also, the tower/spire below the overhang is still octagonal in the Highbury church, whereas as far as I can see the one in the original photo appears to be square.

Michael.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Saturday 28 September 13 22:49 BST (UK)
looks like they are different to me,I bet treetotal never thought a picture that  could  have been taken anywhere in the UK could get such a response,well done T/T I had dreams last night of church steeples and jumping from them,I intend on staying awake all night to night :)
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Saturday 28 September 13 22:59 BST (UK)
I had dreams last night of church steeples and jumping from them,I intend on staying awake all night to night :)

Hi bugle boy,you're not an exclusive member of that club.  ;D ;D ;D
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Saturday 28 September 13 23:17 BST (UK)
  You too Frank ?
"Boy oh Boy' thank god Im not alone.I sure "fell "better.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: John915 on Saturday 28 September 13 23:40 BST (UK)
Good evening,

Well, what a conundrum so just to help I think you also have a railway running across behind the two houses at the far end.

All the buildings would appear to have flat roofs and I would say not hospital but shops and houses. The lady on the right hand side is wearing  a wrap round pinny with bib front and wide neck, probably the shop owner or worker.

The "workman" in the foreground appears to be carrying a broom so I would like to suggest post coronation and it's clearing up time.

Iv'e already spent 3 evenings ploughing through churches uk and Ireland to no avail yet but am still on it.

John915
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Michael J on Sunday 29 September 13 14:54 BST (UK)
As Gaffy has previously said, that has to be a park or common in the background where all the trees are - surely it's being used as a fairground.

The small tower to the right of the church spire and to the left of the tree appears to be the top of a helter-skelter. Also, to the right of the tree is what looks like a merry-go-round.

Michael.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 29 September 13 14:58 BST (UK)
Not sure about the fairground..I think that is a clock or bell tower type thing on top of a building. there are quite a few similar looking things on buildings in London - like this one at Hornsey Road Baths
http://www.assemblyroom.co.uk/index.php/great-to-see-the-old-hornsey-road-baths-sign-is-back/

 - although I have not managed to find the right one yet!

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: John915 on Monday 30 September 13 18:56 BST (UK)
Good evening,

Here you are, your other thread gave the answer. This is looking the other way but note the pub lamp on the right and the cross over where the workman was walking. The photo would have been taken from the block of flats.

Iv'e looked on google maps st view but it looks nothing like the same now.

http://www.beaconsfieldbuildings.com/page17.htm

John915

Added; 2nd piccy down
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Monday 30 September 13 19:09 BST (UK)
Good evening,

Here you are, your other thread gave the answer. This is looking the other way but note the pub lamp on the right and the cross over where the workman was walking. The photo would have been taken from the block of flats.

Iv'e looked on google maps st view but it looks nothing like the same now.

http://www.beaconsfieldbuildings.com/page17.htm

John915

Added; 2nd piccy down

ARRGGGHHHHH!!
I can't get the link to work.  >:(
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: groom on Monday 30 September 13 19:13 BST (UK)
Wont work for me either.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Monday 30 September 13 19:18 BST (UK)
Wont work for me either.

It must be hundreds of Rootschatter's overworking it.  ;D
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Monday 30 September 13 19:28 BST (UK)
For those having problems.

From http://www.beaconsfieldbuildings.com/page17.htm

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Jool on Monday 30 September 13 19:33 BST (UK)
Second pic down is DEFINITELY the building the mystery photo was taken from.  Look on the right you can see the lantern on the corner of the curved building.

Go to beaconsfieldbuildings.com and click on new piccy's on the right side.

Jool
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Monday 30 September 13 19:35 BST (UK)
Second pic down is DEFINITELY the building the mystery photo was taken from.  Look on the right you can see the lantern on the corner of the curved building.

Jool

It certainly get's my vote,  ;)
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: John915 on Monday 30 September 13 19:48 BST (UK)
Good evening again,

Freeling st is now in 2 parts, the small part to the west looking at the Beaconsfield Buildings with Gifford st  and school beyond. See other thread. The photo is taken looking east and everything from the pub on is now gone and replaced by a huge modern estate.

The far end of the picture is Caledonian rd going across the end of freeling st, that bit is still there. What I thought was a railway must have been a roofline now gone and replaced by modern shops.

The steeple is St Andrews Church on Bridgeman rd. The other little tower thingy is on top of the west library also in Bridgeman rd. You can see both on google maps st view, plonk your little man on the junction of Caledonian and Bridgeman rds and look east.

John915

Added; Other thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=662688.0
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Monday 30 September 13 19:54 BST (UK)
Hi john915, 10 out of 10 sir.  :)
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Jool on Monday 30 September 13 20:01 BST (UK)
I was just about to suggest St. Andrews, beaten to it  ;D
http://londonchurchbuildings.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/st-andrew-thornhill-square/
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: John915 on Monday 30 September 13 20:15 BST (UK)
Further news,

The pub was called the Marquis of Salisbury.
 
See;  http://www.beaconsfieldbuildings.com/page17.htm Go to your piccy's 5

John915
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Jool on Monday 30 September 13 20:22 BST (UK)
Great finds John915, well done  ;)
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: mosiefish on Monday 30 September 13 20:29 BST (UK)
Nice one John915  :)  Actually, it was brilliant!  It`s put me out of my misery as well  ;D

Mo
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: JenB on Monday 30 September 13 20:36 BST (UK)
Just arrived from the other thread  :D

More brilliant work.

By my reckoning the photo was taken from here http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html?coords=530378,184032.

Click on the '1896 Pre-world war II 1:2,500 map' on the right.

In the centre of this you can clearly see the school and just to the south of this is the spot from which the photo was taken. Looking east, on Freeling Street, the pub is marked. Going further east you come to the Caledonian Road then Thornhill Square (where the trees in the original photo are) and the church.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Monday 30 September 13 20:42 BST (UK)
Phew thank goodness for that! We can all get some sleep now.

That tower thing on top of the library is definitely what it looks like in the photo
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/87025692

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Monday 30 September 13 20:45 BST (UK)
Well, ............... what with this thread and the other one being sorted, I feel at a bit of a loss,
Lets have some more then,  ;D
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Monday 30 September 13 21:14 BST (UK)
If the pub was marquis of Salisbury - what was the DEN at the end of that sign ???
...And we havn't found the name and dob of the boy with the broom yet ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Monday 30 September 13 21:30 BST (UK)

...And we havn't found the name and dob of the boy with the broom yet ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Milly

Just watch someone come up with it. ;D
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Monday 30 September 13 21:31 BST (UK)
Perhaps if we could find some close up photos of Coronation Day party at Freeling Street he might be in it ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D.

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: youngtug on Monday 30 September 13 22:33 BST (UK)
http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/Islington/MarquessSalisbury.shtml

Everything changes;  http://www.beaconsfieldbuildings.com/page46.htm
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: millymcb on Monday 30 September 13 22:33 BST (UK)
There are some photos of coronation day at that website
http://www.beaconsfieldbuildings.com/page4.htm

If the person who took the photos lived there - maybe their family is in the photos!

Milly
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: youngtug on Monday 30 September 13 22:38 BST (UK)
And another view of the tower here; http://www.beaconsfieldbuildings.com/page17.htm
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 02 October 13 16:15 BST (UK)
Thanks to everyone for their input in helping to identify this mystery photo...I really appreciate the trouble you have all gone to...you are all stars  :-*
Here is my late Uncle seen here on the right as you look at the photo taken in Beaconsfield Buildings.

Just got back from the Lake District.

Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: John915 on Wednesday 02 October 13 19:52 BST (UK)
Good evening,

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The mystery shop was TOMSDEN  :o :o :o :o :o

Still waiting on reply about what type of shop and what other shops. Still looking for name of that 2nd rd going across Freeling st
 
The young mans name was Dave.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

John915

only joking, don't know his name yet, still inquiring.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: jess5athome on Wednesday 02 October 13 20:55 BST (UK)

The young mans name was Dave.  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

John915

only joking, don't know his name yet, still inquiring.

Rolling in fits of laughter,  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Frank.
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 02 October 13 21:15 BST (UK)
No...It's Tommy  ;D ;D ;D
Carol
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: bugle boy on Thursday 03 October 13 03:38 BST (UK)
guess everyone will get a good nights sleep then? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;D
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: John915 on Thursday 03 October 13 20:00 BST (UK)
Good evening,

Slight mistake in my last, it was TOMS DEN, paper shop and sweeties and all things we loved as children. Forgot to leave the space.

John915 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: John915 on Friday 04 October 13 23:28 BST (UK)
Good evening,

No...It's Tommy  ;D ;D ;D
Carol

Was he from ri?   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Have been going back through all this and I'm not sure my contact has got the shop name correct. He's an ex Beaconsfield Buildings tenant but looking again it definitely looks like an 'R' before the 'DEN'.

John915
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: sarah on Wednesday 09 October 13 14:16 BST (UK)
Quote
And we havn't found the name and dob of the boy with the broom yet

It looks like a mawl hammer to me, a type of rubber hammer used for leveling paving stones and driving in fencing stakes etc...wonder where he is going with that?

Sarah :)
Title: Re: WW 2 Photo - Unknown Location
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 09 October 13 15:14 BST (UK)
Definitely an R before the DEN. There also seems to be the number 14 0n the end of the sign. I also agree that it looks more like a hammer than a broom, although I'm not so sure it's a boy, could well be a grown man.